Category: Warren Throckmorton

In early 2004, I interviewed psychiatrist Robert Spitzer for the documentary, I Do Exist. Only a portion of the footage made it in the video. During the Spring semester, GCC senior Randy Fulton transcribed the entire interview for an independent study. Thanks to Randy for that. The interview fully covers Dr. Spitzer’s much discussed study. Of current interest is what Dr. Spitzer had to say about sexual orientation and depression. There is some conflict over what his study actually suggested with regard to the relationship of sexual reorientation and depression. Wayne Besen quotes Dr. Spitzer as complaining that Melissa Fryrear misinterpreted his study. As I read Ms. Fryrear’s comments, it appears to me that she accurately represents what Dr. Spitzer said in 2004.

Here is what Melissa Fryrear said about the Spitzer study to the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation: “Some clinical studies, including one by Dr. Robert Spitzer, have linked contemplating suicide to unwanted attractions to the same sex, she said.”

Wayne Besen is reporting that Dr. Spitzer said this about Melissa’s comments:
“Unfortunately Focus on the Family has once again reported findings of my study out of context to support their fight against gay rights,” said Dr. Robert Spitzer, a professor of psychiatry at Columbia University.”

and then…

“Although a third of the subjects in my study reported having had serious thoughts of suicide related to their homosexuality, not one of them blamed the gay rights movement’s advocating a ‘born-gay’ theory of homosexuality as the cause of their suicidal thinking,” said Spitzer.

I do not see Melissa saying that Dr. Spitzer’s study made a direct connection between the gay rights’ movement and contemplating suicide.

Now on point, I have reproduced my interview with Dr. Spitzer from 2004. It appears that some of the subjects did in fact feel depressed as the result of being told by therapists that they couldn’t change.

From our 2004 interview:

Dr. Throckmorton: Were there any mental health consequences of attempting to change?

Dr. Spitzer: The majority of subjects reported moderate to severe depression before they went into therapy. And a marked change, very few were depressed after therapy. So that was an important finding, I think, that depression was, you know, there was a tremendous conflict over homosexuality, and many were very depressed that they had made previous efforts, that was another interesting thing, was many of the subjects reported that they had gone to mental health professionals and were told, just, you know, accept it, that there’s no way to change. And they were not satisfied with that, and were very depressed thinking that they could not, you know, change.

Dr. Throckmorton: Were there any other mental health consequences.

Dr. Spitzer: Um, well many had been so depressed they were suicidal. And a few had made actual attempts. So, I mean they reported a very unhappy state of mind before they changed. The other thing is that the change was not quick…another reason why I believe in credibility; you would think that, if you want to present the best way of presenting therapy, you would say that it started to work pretty soon. You wouldn’t say that it was on average two years before there was really much change, which was the case. Many said it took several years before they actually noticed change, and on average it was two years. The people were in some kind of therapy for an average of 7 years. But, often that was still being in some group experience they would keep going to a support group for several years.

It does appear that he did get feedback from subjects saying that mental health professionals discouraged change and the position that sexual orientation was immutable was associated with depression. In other words, the depression was not adequately addressed by the mental health professionals saying just accept your feelings.

To read the entire interview, go here.

Today, American Family Radio is broadcasting Part One of a two part series regarding the recent issues with PFOX and Richard Cohen’s appearance on CNN. I think to be fair, tomorrow’s segment will give Richard a chance to reply.

UPDATE: Part 2 of the PFOX/Cohen story came are here and here today.

UPDATE #2 – The print article derived from Jim Brown’s reporting is here.

To read the posts regarding this matter, click here.

Eve Tushnet, writing for National Review Online, reviews the June 10, Love Won Out conference near Washington DC. It’s a pretty brief article but she finds most fault with the reparative therapy tone of the day. While she acknowledged that some men do fit the reparative-theory-predicted understanding of things, others don’t. Interesting was the man, “Frank,” who said he did fit the theory, but even with all the insight, he has not lost his same-sex attractions.

On the whole, she is unimpressed with the emphasis on causation. Reading further on her blog, she writes:

But there are all kinds of cases where family dynamics don’t explain very much. And honestly–family dynamics are often a reductive and boring explanation for homosexuality. Plus, the Love Won Out speakers were super defensive on the subject of origins, hammering on and on about how homosexuality isn’t genetic. Why on earth does this even matter? All kinds of things have a genetic component. Even from the ex-gay perspective, there shouldn’t be anything threatening about acknowledging that homosexuality has some kind of complex relation to genetics. People wouldn’t avoid treatment for anxiety disorders, or stop going to AA, or give up on controlling their tempers, just because anxiety or alcoholism or anger has a genetic component. So I really have no idea why the idea of an inborn predisposition to homosexuality wigged these people out so bad.

Yeah, I wonder that too. I suspect it is a reaction to those who say, “don’t tamper with someone’s feelings, they’re genetic!” However, I don’t think one overreaction deserves another.

From the Journal of Health and Social Behavior (Dec., 2005), pp. 307-22 comes this interesting abstract:

Title: Geneticization of deviant behavior and consequences for stigma: the case of mental illness.
Author: Phelan JC. of the Mailman School of Public Health, Columbia University, Department of Sociomedical Sciences, 722 W. 168th Street, New York, NY 10032, USA. [email protected]

Abstract: One likely consequence of the genetics revolution is an increased tendency to understand human behavior in genetic terms. How might this “geneticization” affect stigma? Attribution theory predicts a reduction in stigma via reduced blame, anger, and punishment and increased sympathy and help. According to “genetic essentialist” thinking, genes are the basis of human identity and strongly deterministic of behavior. If such ideas are commonly accepted, geneticization should exacerbate stigma by increasing perceptions of differentness, persistence, seriousness, and transmissibility, which in turn should increase social distance and reproductive restrictiveness. I test these predictions using the case of mental illness and a vignette experiment embedded in a nationally representative survey. There was little support for attribution theory predictions. Consistent with genetic essentialism, genetic attributions increased the perceived seriousness and persistence of the mental illness and the belief that siblings and children would develop the same problem. Genetic attribution did not affect reproductive restrictiveness or social distance from the ill person but did increase social distance from the person’s sibling, particularly regarding intimate forms of contact involving dating, marriage, and having children.

Polling data about homosexuality supplied by Wayne Besen on his website seems to be counter to the impact on mental illness. I wonder if the fact that most people do not see homosexuality as a mental illness could contribute to the difference. Not going anywhere particularly, just thought the study was interesting. I am interested in this because I am concerned that the advances in genetics will erode perceptions of free will and have impact on how clients perceive a variety of clinical issues. The whole chemical imbalance thing makes it difficult to establish talk therapy with clients who want to “wait until the meds kick in.”

On the sexual identity therapy blog, I have entered an open forum to allow comments and questions regarding the guidelines. I hope bloggers from here will review the guidelines and post questions, comments and offer support.