Category: Mars Hill Church

More Mars Hill Pastor Resignations: Adam Ramsey and Gary Shavey

Two more of the nine pastors who directed Mark Driscoll to step down and enter a restoration plan have resigned from Mars Hill Church. Adam Ramsey, director of student ministries for Mars Hill (youth ministries), and Gary Shavey, biblical living pastor at Bellevue have resigned and issued brief statements. Both signed the letter which expressed dismay over the ministry culture at Mars Hill and called for significant changes in the executive leadership.
On his Facebook page, and in an email to me last evening, Shavey said:

Many have asked if it is true that I resigned from Mars Hill Church. The short answer is yes I have. But going to MH the last 18 years and being a pastor for over 14 years it is hard to put all my thoughts together. I will post more soon, appreciate your patience and have loved all those I have worked with, ministered to and have been ministered by.

Ramsey issued a statement on his website (click through to read the entire post):

We love the people who make up Mars Hill Church and wouldn’t trade the past couple of years we’ve had serving them and Jesus for anything. It has become clear to us over the past month however, that we will no longer be able to continue forward in good conscience under the current leadership structure and ministry culture.  So it was with a sad heart but a clear conscience that I handed in my resignation to Mars Hill yesterday morning, far earlier than we had ever hoped or anticipated. Because of the current work visa that I am on, that also means we will be required to leave the country by the end of this month.

One effect of Ramsey’s departure is the reduction of youth ministries.  Yesterday, the pastor of Mars Hill Sammamish, Alex Ghioni announced the closing of the student ministry there.

Update on Mars Hill Sammamish Student Ministry
Pastor Alex Ghioni
Dear Parents of our RED Students,
Tonight at the close of our Student Ministry I had to communicate some difficult news. We have just learned that Pastor Adam Ramsey has decided to transition out of his role as the Director and Teaching Pastor for Mars Hill student ministries. He has been a dear friend and great pastor that has blessed so many in his ministry here. He has plans to return to Australia with his family and plant a church there. There’s a second bit of news that hits us even deeper here at Mars Hill Sammamish. Deacon Josiah Diener has decided to step down from his leadership position here at our church. He shared with me that he has some personal convictions that would prevent him from continuing to lead in student ministry in good conscience. He intends to stay and worship with us but cannot lead in the way that is best for our students. I have appreciated Josiah’s willingness to serve Jesus and our students with passion and conviction. He too has been a great blessing that the Holy Spirit brought and used at our church.

Ghioni did not mention the fact that Ramsey’s departure was due to his disagreements with the leadership and culture at Mars Hill.
Even as Ghioni put the best face on Ramsey’s decision, he acknowledged that the church is “contracting.” Apparently, at this time, the student ministry position will not be filled due to lack of funds.

At a time where our church is contracting and we struggle to find godly ways to move forward we are faced with diminishing resources, leaders, and helpers in every one of our ministries. These circumstances leave us without a leader to shepherd our students or resources to hire additional staff. It is with great sorrow that I have to let you know that it was with a heavy heart that I announced to your students tonight that this would be our last student ministry meeting here at Mars Hill Sammamish for the short term. It is my fervent hope that we can and are dealing with the larger issues that have brought us to this point. I believe that what emerges will be a more godly, helpful, and healthy church that will bring glory to God and bless his people.

Sources tell me Josh Clayton, community groups pastor, can also be added to the list. Clayton was an unpaid, volunteer elder who stepped down from that position. However, I have not gotten direct confirmation from Clayton, although his Mars Hill profile now omits any mention of his role as an elder.

Mars Hill Church Posts Bylaws

Apparently Dustin Kensrue’s resignation letter (and perhaps this post today) sparked enough concern at Mars Hill Church to add a line to the Governance page of the church website. Earlier today, I noted Kensrue’s call for transparency and noted that the state of Washington and the ECFA require disclosure of bylaws to members. For Mars Hill Church, members refers to elders and not church members. The posting of this link, especially if they somehow let members know they can now see them, is an improvement. Here is what the Mars Hill Church governance page looked like on September 2 (via Google cache): Governancenobylaws090214cache Here is what it looks like today: Governancebylaws090414 Note the orange arrow. This line was added since September 2 (some sources tell me it was added today), complete with links to the Mars Hill Church bylaws and the Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability. The link leads to the copy of the bylaws which I have been using to discuss governance at Mars Hill. Now maybe we’ll get some Mars Hill Global numbers…

Citation Error in Sutton Turner's Book Invest? (UPDATED with reply from Mars Hill Church)

While Mark Driscoll has garnered much attention regarding his citation errors (e.g., plagiarism, factual errors, inadequate citations), Driscoll’s assistant and fellow executive elder may also need to do some correcting. In chapter four of his book, Invest, Turner lists differences between a job and a ministry:

  • If you want praise and recognition for what you do, it’s a job. If no one else besides Jesus needs to commend your work, it’s ministry.
  • If you do the job as long as it does not cut into other things (such as hobbies, family activities, etc.), it’s a job. If you are willing to make sacrifices in your personal schedule, it’s ministry.
  • If you compare your lot with others who have more free time, more money, and more possessions, it’s a job. If you pray for others rather than compete with them, it’s ministry.
  • If it bothers you when the phone rings on evenings and weekends, it’s a job. If you see random calls at odd hours as opportunities to serve with joy, it’s ministry.
  • If you want to quit because the work is too hard, the pressure is too great, or your performance is criticized, it’s a job. If you stick it out—until Jesus clearly tells you that it’s time to move on—it’s ministry.
  • If you use the church as a stepping-stone, a payday, or a gold star on your résumé, it’s a job. If you’re working for the church because you love Jesus and you want more people to meet him, get saved, and be transformed, then it’s ministry.
  • Turner, Sutton (2013-12-16). Invest: Your Gifts for His Mission (Kindle Location 673). Resurgence Publishing, Inc.. Kindle Edition.

Compare Turner’s list in his 2013 book with this list from a 1999 sermon by Mickey Anders.

Someone has said there is a huge difference between having a job at church and having a ministry at church.
… If you are doing it because no one else will, it’s a job. If you are doing it to serve the Lord, it’s a ministry.
… If you’re doing it just well enough to get by, it’s a job. If you’re doing it to the best of your ability, it’s a ministry.
… If you’ll do it only so long as it doesn’t interfere with other activities, it’s a job. If you’re committed to staying with it even when it means letting go of other things, it’s a ministry.
… It’s hard to get excited about a job. It’s almost impossible not to get excited about a ministry.
An average church is filled with people doing jobs. A great church is filled with people involved in ministry.
Dr. Mickey Anders,
Sermon: “The Beginning of Ministry,” First Christian Church, Pikeville, Kentucky January 24, 1999

There are other lists attributed to Anders and very nearly the same list also attributed to a Melody Blevins.  Anders was, until recently, affiliated with the South Elkhorn Christian Church in Lexington, KY. Many lists like this are printed without attribution and often add something to Anders list (although I have no way of knowing what was in Anders original list). Take this one for instance:

Is it a Job or a Ministry?
Some people have a job in the church. Others get involved in a ministry.
What’s The Difference?
If you’re doing it because no one else will, it’s a job.
If you’re doing it to serve the Lord, it’s a ministry.
If you’ll do it so long as it doesn’t interfere with other activities it’s a job.
If you’re committed to staying with it even when it means letting go of other things, it’s a ministry.
If you quit because no one praised or thanked you, it was a job.
If you stayed with it even though no one seems to notice, it’s a ministry.
It is hard to get excited about a job.
It is almost impossible not to be excited about a ministry.
If your concern is “success”, it’s a job.
If your concern is “faithfulness”, it’s a ministry.
An average church is filled with people doing jobs.
A great church is filled with people who are involved in ministries!

The list attributed to Melody Blevins has similar points:

A JOB OR A MINISTRY – by Melody Blevins
Some people have a JOB in the church; others involve themselves in a MINISTRY. What’s the difference? If you are doing it just because no one else will, it’s a JOB. If you are doing it to serve the Lord, it’s a MINISTRY. If you quit because someone criticized you, it was a JOB. If you keep on serving, it’s a MINISTRY. If you’ll do it only so long as it does not interfere with your other activities, it’s a JOB. If you are committed to staying with it even when it means letting go of other things, it’s a MINISTRY. If you quit because no one praised you or thanked you, it is a JOB. If you stay with it even though nobody recognizes your efforts, it’s a MINISTRY. It’s hard to get excited about a JOB. It’s almost impossible not to be excited about a MINISTRY. If our concern is success, it’s a JOB. If our concern is faithfulness, it’s a MINISTRY. An average church is filled with people doing JOBS. A great and growing church is filled with people involved in MINISTRY. Where do we fit in? What about us? If God calls you to a MINISTRY, don’t treat it like a JOB. If you have a JOB, give it up and find a MINISTRY. God does not want us feeling stuck with a JOB, but excited and faithful to Him in MINISTRY.

The lists are not identical but they seem similar enough that attribution certainly would be appropriate. At least one reviewer of the book took the list to be original with Turner.
This list or construction might not be original with either Anders or Blevins, but the point is that it does not appear to be original with Turner. Various lists like this have gotten passed around the web since the early days. It didn’t take me long to find two possible authors but no one is cited in Invest. When in doubt, an author should footnote and describe where the material was discovered. An author can adapt material but this should be noted in a footnote.
I have asked Sutton Turner for comment and will report if he replies. Perhaps this is a rare coincidence. However, the Blevins/Anders lists clearly predate Invest, and unless another explanation is offered appear to be the basis for this section of Turner’s book.
UPDATE: Both Sutton Turner and Communications Director Justin Dean responded to my request for comment. Turner took the request seriously and replied that he would correct the problems identified when the book was reprinted. Justin Dean also wrote to say:

We are looking into the best way to cite this in the footnotes and will update the book upon reprint. I don’t have any other information about this right now but we will look into it and make any changes necessary.

His answer was in response to my question about the nature of the error. Did Turner use material he knew wasn’t his or was it an oversight? I am still not clear on this but I can say that it was refreshing to get a serious respectful reply.

Washington Law and Dustin Kensrue to Mars Hill Church: Release the Bylaws

Former Mars Hill Church Director of Worship Dustin Kensrue resigned on Monday. His letter of resignation was posted yesterday. In it, Kensrue offered several suggestions to current members. I want to focus on his suggestion about church bylaws: Kensrue wrote:

What Else Can You Do?
• Ask questions and share your concerns with your pastors, especially your lead pastor.
• Ask to see the bylaws and study them yourself. If any church will not share it’s bylaws, it’s probably not safe to trust that church. MH has gone so far as to deny the current bylaws to elder candidates (myself included) on the explicit order of Sutton Turner, and when I wanted to see them as an elder, I had to look online where they had been “leaked.” (emphasis added)

This blog is one such place where one can review the Mars Hill bylaws (click the link).
Consistent with Kensrue’s report, I have been told by current and former members that requests to see the bylaws have been denied by Mars Hill pastors. However, keeping people (see below, Mars Hill elders) away from the bylaws may violate Washington law. According to the Washington Nonprofit Corporation Act, members must have access to organization bylaws:

24.03.135
Required documents in the form of a record — Inspection — Copying.
Each corporation shall keep at its registered office, its principal office in this state, or at its secretary’s office if in this state, the following documents in the form of a record:
(1) Current articles and bylaws;
(2) A list of members, including names, addresses, and classes of membership, if any;
(3) Correct and adequate statements of accounts and finances;
(4) A list of officers’ and directors’ names and addresses;
(5) Minutes of the proceedings of the members, if any, the board, and any minutes which may be maintained by committees of the board.
The corporate records shall be open at any reasonable time to inspection by any member of more than three months standing or a representative of more than five percent of the membership.
Cost of inspecting or copying shall be borne by such member except for costs for copies of articles or bylaws. Any such member must have a purpose for inspection reasonably related to membership interests. Use or sale of members’ lists by such member if obtained by inspection is prohibited.
The superior court of the corporation’s or such member’s residence may order inspection and may appoint independent inspectors. Such member shall pay inspection costs unless the court orders otherwise.
[2004 c 265 § 14; 1986 c 240 § 24; 1967 c 235 § 28.] (emphasis added)

Most churches have their bylaws readily available for review. Mars Hill Church leaders keep them under cover. This should be a huge red flag.
About a week ago, I asked Dan Busby, the president of the Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability, if member organizations were allowed to keep bylaws from members but he did not reply. Guidance for churches on the ECFA website appears to require disclosure of bylaws:

Standard 5 – Transparency – Every member shall provide a copy of its current financial statements upon written request and shall provide other disclosures as the law may require. The financial statements required to comply with Standard 3 must be disclosed under this Standard. (emphasis added)

Washington law requires bylaws be available for review. Unless there are special exemptions for churches, it appears that Mars Hill Church is at odds with state law and out of compliance with ECFA guidelines. I should also point out that the seven member self-perpetuating Board of Advisors and Accountability can change the bylaws without approval of the Full Council of Elders or the congregation.
Additional Information: In re-reading the post, there is a component of the story that I should have included the first time around. While it does not change the general thrust of the post, I need to add some information to this call to release the bylaws.
It seems apparent that the authors of the Mars Hill Church bylaws were familiar with WA state law. In Article 4, the bylaws distinguish between “spiritual” members and members for the purpose of state law.
Article4
Mars Hill Church calls people who take the membership covenant “members” but not “members for state law purposes.” Even though the people who agree to the membership covenant are supposed to tithe, give money beyond their tithes, volunteer, support the pastors, etc., they are not “members for state laws purposes.” In other words, they are not entitled to get bylaws and other information that the actual members are supposed to get. In this case, the bylaws labels elder as being “members for state law purposes.” I wonder how many “members” not “for state law purposes” know that they aren’t really legal members of the church? Give time, talents and tithes, support the pastors but members can’t vote or even have access to the rules which govern the body to which they pledge a covenant.
As noted in Kensrue’s resignation letter, the leadership of Mars Hill Church has kept the bylaws even from the legal members which appears to be a violation of state law and ECFA guidance. It seems to me that congregation members could challenge the viability of their membership covenant since they really aren’t joining an organization where they have any participation in governance.
Kensrue also discussed how the bylaws inform the examination of charges against Mark Driscoll. In a related post, later today, I will look at what Kensrue has to say about that in comparison with the bylaws.

Mars Hill Church Director of Worship Dustin Kensrue Resigns

One of the nine elders who called on Mark Driscoll to enter an elder directed restoration process has resigned from Mars Hill Church. Director of Worship Dustin Kensrue resigned on Monday and issued a statement today. Reportedly, two other signers of the letter addressed to their peers at Mars Hill have also resigned. Sources in a position to know tell me that Gary Shavey and Adam Ramsey have also resigned. With these resignations, four of the original nine have now either resigned or been relieved of their position.
Kensrue was the leader of the band Thrice and also led worship at Mars Hill Orange County until he moved to Seattle in 2012 to take on the job of leading Mars Hill Music. Kensrue’s artist profile remains up on the Mars Hill website but his pastor profile has been removed (see it via Google cache).
The statement is at the link and provides an explanation for why Kensrue is resigning now. Rather than take parts of it here or reproduce the whole thing, I recommend that you click through and read it for yourself.


UPDATE: After having read the letter, I want to punctuate it with several segments. Kensrue essentially validates the concerns I have expressed repeatedly as have others. The Mars Hill Church Full Council of Elders has almost no authority and cannot bring accountability to the situation. Kensrue wrote:

So, what’s the answer to the question “what can your elders do?” Simply put, sadly not much. This is why we’ve looked pained when you’ve have asked us what we are going to do about all of this. There is nothing we’ve been able to do except bring the issue to our lead pastor. He in turn can bring it to his lead pastor coach. The coach in turn can bring it to the EE. As far as I’ve seen, if it ever reaches this point the concern is generally ignored and floats away into the ether. At other times recently, we have been told that certain subjects (e.g. the church’s
polity in general) were off the table completely.
This should concern you. Your pastors, who are on the ground with you, who know you, who care for you, who pray with you, and in whom you trust – these men have essentially no voice and no vote in what happens with your church as a whole, and the leadership is actively trying to limit the voice that they do have. If your pastors had a voice and a vote, do not think that the last year would have looked a bit different? Do you not think they would have done something? While the problem with the lack of transparency is huge, the problems with our broken view of eldership and our broken bylaws are more foundational problems.

The clear message from Kensrue is that nothing has changed and the process is rigged. I didn’t say it, he did.