Category: Mars Hill Church

Has Mark Driscoll's Verdict Already Been Decided?

A key to broad acceptance of whatever decision is made regarding charges against Mark Driscoll by the Mars Hill Board of Advisors and Accountability is the perception that the BOAA is objective. In light of remarks by BOAA chair Matt Rogers and reported in the Seattle Times yesterday, some former Mars Hill leaders are questioning the BOAA’s objectivity. Rogers told the Seattle Times:

“The hard part is that some of what’s out there is true, and he’s owned it and apologized for it and is trying to correct it, and some is not,” said Mars Hill Pastor Matt Rogers, who chairs the church accountability board examining accusations against their leader.

“If someone went through and dragged out every example of where I’d been short with my wife, or rude to a co-worker or done something stupid, and trickled that out week after week after week for months, you would have no respect for me, either.”

According to the most recent reports from former pastors close to the situation, the investigation is only at the very beginning stages with some interviews scheduled but few, if any, conducted as yet. In other words, the jury should be out. However, Rogers appears to have his mind made up about the nature and accuracy of the charges.

There is at least one more reason to raise questions about conflict of interest. According to former elders and unknown to many in the pews, Rogers was almost tapped during the summer to be lead pastor at Mars Hill Bellevue. Lead pastor Thomas Hurst announced a sabbatical in June but according to reliable sources had planned to resign. Rogers was slated to move into the role of lead pastor to take Hurst’s place.  During Hurst’s absence, Rogers led the services over the summer and attended the lead pastors’s July retreat in CA. In addition to other communications to the Bellevue campus, Rogers wrote a response to the demonstration which occurred on August 3.

Rogers’ response to the demonstration is noteworthy. According to witnesses at Bellevue, Rogers was not at Bellevue the Sunday of the protest. However, he wrote the rebuttal as if he had been present, alleging that the demonstrators left trash behind. At the time, I asked Rogers and Mars Hill Church if he was present at Bellevue but received no reply. On the substance of the matter, Rogers took the role of an advocate for the executive elders:

From Pastor Matt Rogers:

This past Sunday outside our building about 60 professing Christians led a protest, left a bit of trash, and slandered good men. Inside the building our church family worshipped Jesus. Let that image be what defines us. Others will cast aspersions, but we will worship Jesus.

Instead of openness to the concerns of the demonstrators (many of which are the same as in the charges filed by the 21 ex-pastors), Rogers said “good men” were “slandered” and accused the demonstrators of casting “aspersions.”

Then after attacking the demonstrators, Rogers wrote:

We cannot let fear rule our church. We must choose love. Choosing fear would lead us to attack those who are attacking us. Instead we will choose to love them by praying for them. Choosing fear will drive us to anger and bitterness which will spill out in how we talk about them, engage with them and eventually even with each other. Choosing love will be our witness to all the outsiders watching us right now that we forgive just as God in Christ forgave us. By refusing to give into fear we will commend Christ to our city.

Choosing fear shapes how we interact with each other as well. Choosing fear leads to second guessing and distrusting the statements of our leaders. Choosing fear leads to not standing up for the truth and the honor of good men because of what might come our way. Choosing love will enable us to show grace toward one another, to trust the Spirit at work in one another, and encourage each other to do the same.

Rogers message to his flock was to trust the leaders. He added that the congregation should stand “up for the truth and honor” of the leaders.  Rogers ends by providing his assessment of the charges against the executive elders:

As elders we should have done more to communicate with you. By not saying more clearly that much of what you read online is slander, half-truths and gossip we left you in a place of wondering what is true. When this recent storm began a few months ago I looked into all of it because I had a responsibility to as an elder. What I have consistently seen is a pattern of repentance when sin was present, growth when errors were made, and patience when the accusations were false.
Let me say very clearly that Pastor Mark, Pastor Dave and Pastor Sutton are honorable and trustworthy men. I count it a privilege to serve with them not because I have anything to gain, simply because it is true.

According to Rogers, he has already looked into the situation and made up his mind that nothing has happened which would disqualify the executive elders. Without being specific, Rogers says some of the charges are false, and some are slander, half-truths and gossip.

Although Hurst declared his resignation again during the most recent full council of elders retreat, he has remained on while Rogers was appointed to the BOAA. Recall that the BOAA consists of the executive elders and at the time two independent members, Michael Van Skaik and Larry Osborne. At the time of the appointment, I pointed out that Rogers was already serving in a volunteer elder role at Mars Hill and may not fully meet the criteria for independence.

I asked former pastors and leaders for their reactions to Matt Rogers’ comments and I received three replies. Some declined to comment on the record but expressed concerns about the objectivity of the process. Former deacon Rob Smith told me:

There are two reasons that demonstrate that Matt Rogers should not be on the jury that decides Mark Driscoll’s fate. First, he has already cast his judgment before looking at the evidence in his comments both to the Seattle Times, where he has stated that what is true “out there” has been owned and apologized for by Mark Driscoll already and trying to correct, and the rest is not true, and second, he accused the people who protested at his campus of littering and slander despite not being there. He is clearly biased.

Dalton Rorabeck, former community group coach at Mars Hill reacted to Rogers’ words, saying

This statement alone should disqualify Matt Rogers from heading up the BOAA.  He has already claimed that the charges/false accusations are not true and that Mark, Dave, and Sutton are trustworthy men. It won’t matter in the end though.  I pity these men who are more interested in protecting their jobs, their friends, their paychecks, and their legacy’s rather than stand up for the Gospel and for truth.

Former Mars Hill Orange County executive pastor Kyle Firstenberg told me:

It is discouraging that once again, Mars Hill has placed a leader in a position to investigate Mark Driscoll who minimizes his sin. Matt Rogers gave the example that if someone were to talk about him being short with his wife or rude to a co-worker that people would have no respect for him also. That may be true, however we are not talking about that level of sin. We are talking about elder disqualifying sin, and not just one incident, many over several years. He also stated that Mark has owned his sin and has apologized for it. I would be very interested in how he has owned it! It seems to me that you would need to have conversations with some of the people you have sinned against in order to own it.

To summarize, Mr. Rogers joins a panel where two members of the BOAA dismissed prior charges without interviewing anyone (2013, Michael Van Skaik, Larry Osborne), and one member is the largest donor to the church in Mars Hill’s history (Jon Phelps). As I have written before, I like Mr. Driscoll’s chances with this BOAA.

UPDATE (9/16): Although the information about Bellevue lead pastor Thomas Hurst is not central to this post, I want to include a comment he made about it on Mars Hill’s chat site known as The City.

From Pastor Thomas Hurst:

Bellevue Family,

A couple hours ago I received an email making me aware of a blog that was posted today quoting a “former” elder who thought it was important to share how I intended to resign from my position at Mars Hill Bellevue. The former elder spoke of two different instances where I was going, or did, resign. I’m saddened that someone I know deemed this helpful for all of you to know – not because I wanted to hide anything, but because none of you need any more confusion in your life. I don’t understand why making this known was in anyway helpful to the critical situation and conversation at hand apart from bringing even more confusion and chaos into the confusion and chaos that already exists.

I do want to address this with everyone so you can know from me what was happening in my heart and mind with regards to my considering resignation, my resigning, and why I’m still here…but before I can share all this I get to be a daddy to my three boys and put them all to bed. I will post another letter later to all of you tonight.

I love you and please don’t allow your own hearts and minds to leap to any conclusions on this topic until I’ve had a chance to share it directly with you.

Pastor Thomas

If I get any more information on this I will pass it along. I will provide all sides to the issues raised here.

Mars Hill Church Member Speaks Out About Lost Trust

Michael Redfield is a current Mars Hill Church member. He recently posted a couple of lengthy comments on my blog which include his assessment of Mars Hill’s leaders, and their response to the recent crisis.  They seem to express what many former and current members are saying to me. Redfield told me that he also posted these comments to the church feedback website.
His first comment about 6 days ago regarding the “Financial Challenges” page on the church website:

Below is my just posted member comments on the Mars Hill church site, this fully tipped me off the fence –
RE: “Financial Challenges” As a member for about seven years I have in the past been both thrilled and disturbed by several things related to my and my family’s experiences here in Shoreline. None has to date enraged me more than the arrogant, blame shifting, non-contrite attitude expressed in this page today. With all that has transpired to state essentially that the closings and staff cuts are because you “sheep” have failed to give enough is appalling. This on top of statements like giving is down due to “negative media attention” clearly show that the current leadership doesn’t get it and I will not be surprised if the whole Mars Hill Church meets its demise soon with such attitudes continuing. Where is a statement from the mysterious EE stating that “these cuts are a direct result of the mistakes we have made and are endeavoring to correct” or “in light of the current situation we are cutting our salaries’ by X starting today”??? If it was in question before, there is no doubt – you leaders have now totally lost my trust. As a former Elder there, today I now also understand what I could not before – why God saw fit to deny Esperance Baptist Church’s facility to Mars Hill Church. It is so sad but understandable with these attitudes that the lampstand is being withdrawn.

A couple of days later, Redfield posted the following comment in response to the note from pastor Alex Ghioni:

Dear Mars Hill elders,
Forgive me if after all the ill hearted recent missteps and outright blunders that I don’t embrace the long overdue humility with  immediate trust.  I sent a message expressing my extreme disappointment yesterday based on the original “Financial Challenges” post.  As is the pattern, I received no Mars Hill reply nor do I expect to get one.  However when I posted those comments on Pathos site (instrumental in exposing many of our issues and without the likes of we may have continued in for who knows how long?), I received almost instant support and replies.
The pastoral spirit in the update and today’s post “Going Forward” are steps in the right direction, and I hope not too late to save this church.  Questions and answers I am sure will be asked and answered must include:  When will the crisis management, spin, and self protection end?  Have you been grooming submissive clones for leadership and removing the others?  What are EE salaries and concealed expenditures?  What were the Global Fund, Jesus Festival, book royalties, etc., monies true and actual amounts and were the uses proper and legal?  Were disqualifying sins committed?  Is lying one of those?  How can so many pastor/elders leave without explanation or thankful sendoffs?
Obviously many things must be addressed.  Included we  must eliminate any “non-compete” clauses – (we are first and foremost commanded and led by Jesus not Mars Hill Church).    We must re-establish real biblical leadership including bylaws.  Provide real procedures where member questions will be asked and answered not just deemed divisive.
While I technically remain a member since my family and I have not landed permanently elsewhere yet, I like so many, have lost trust in leadership.  Especially the EE, but increasingly so in our remaining local elders who either kept their heads in the sand, chose to implicitly ignore issues that many less informed members like myself began to notice some time ago.  Or worse, they out of self preservation, disregarded God’s promptings that as leaders they should address.  For the most part the more courageous ones found or were shown the door.
Better to have never given reason for lost trust but failing that it will take much longer to regain it.  Therefore I do also take issue with not hashing out issues in social media.  How and why is that increasingly taking place?  In MH redemption group the biblical mandate was emphasized to live in the light.  When I sought answers  from leaders to some of the issues that are decimating MH church today I was politely told the leaders were aware, to check my own heart, and not to be divisive.  When issues perpetuate that leaders fail to address privately or publicly, leaving quietly fails to honor the heart God gives some of us.  The MH Church doors seem closed to exposing hurtful wrongs, cover ups and silence were the norm, so people like me feel led to seek justice.  The internet, although prone to abuse, provides that opportunity.
God is great and does not blink an miss things, He has an uncanny way of fulfilling Romans 8:28.  My job is to follow him and I fear you leaders would still be managing crisis in your closets without the unwelcome light shining by the internet.  Here’s praying the elders of MH will match their talk to live in His light.  That’s it for now.

Does it sound like Michael would like more transparency?
 

Someone Tell Matt Rogers That the Investigation of Mark Driscoll Isn't Over

Craig Welch of the Seattle Times has an lengthy article on Mars Hill Church that provides a nice summary of the events since November, 2013. In his reporting, Welch got an interview with Matt Rogers, newly tapped chair of the Mars Hill Board of Advisors and Accountability. Even though Rogers and the BOAA passed off the investigation of Driscoll’s charges to the recently created Board of Elders, Rogers seems to know the facts about Driscoll. He told Welch:

“The hard part is that some of what’s out there is true, and he’s owned it and apologized for it and is trying to correct it, and some is not,” said Mars Hill Pastor Matt Rogers, who chairs the church accountability board examining accusations against their leader.

“If someone went through and dragged out every example of where I’d been short with my wife, or rude to a co-worker or done something stupid, and trickled that out week after week after week for months, you would have no respect for me, either.”

As I understand it, the investigation of charges against Mark Driscoll is just getting underway. However, I’m not sure I understand why the Board of Elders need to interview those picky elders, since Mr. Rogers already has the situation figured out. Seems like it would have been better public relations to at least seem like he was waiting on the results of the investigation to determine what is true and what is not.

The article I described above is on the Seattle Times front page today:

driscoll seattle times

Mars Hill Church Member: 12 Steps to Rebuild Trust with Members

These days I interact with many current and former Mars Hill Church members. Often these current and former members express their aspirations for Mars Hill and wish that change would take place. Many of them are ambivalent about the church; they enjoy the relationships there and often believe the teaching is helpful to their lives, but they also are exasperated with the financial problems, emphasis on the Driscoll brand and lack of transparency from the leaders. They often believe big business somehow invaded their church and not for the betterment of the ministry. Some have rejected the church due to doctrinal reasons, but others believe the church should survive if trust could be reestablished with members.
The following letter was written by a current Mars Hill Church member. For a variety of reasons, including concerns about retaliation, this person did not want to be named in publication. However, I know the person and decided to publish this because the recommendations give expression to the many conversations I have had with current, on the fence, and former Mars Hill members. Many of them, such as this person, believe they are fighting for their church when they speak out.

“Dear Pastor Mark: Grow A Pair.”
(Or 12 Steps You Can Take To Rebuild Trust With Your Mars Hill Church Members)
Dear Pastor Mark,
Campuses closing, staff laid off. Front page headlines in the Seattle Times (for the wrong reasons). Elders quitting. Community groups down in attendance every week. Giving way down. Attendance overall way down. Hope for Mars Hill members is at an all time low.
Kind of a mess, agreed?
How about we put a stop to all this?
I am writing as no one special; not a pastor or elder, just an average Mars Hill member who has finally reached the breaking point. Over the past 9 months I’ve spoken directly with 40+ members and heard second hand about the thoughts of dozens more. We are not the folks who protested, or casual attendees; we are or have been official Mars Hill members. Some of us have now left Mars Hill; others are hanging on by a thread. After that many conversations, some common sense ideas begin to emerge, which I will share here. Of course not all members will agree with what I have to say here, but enough will that it’s worth the effort to speak up.
Those of us in average Mars Hill member land have waited for months, thinking “surely the Mars Hill Executive Elders will see what we all see”, but as each day passes, it seems clear that something is broken…you just aren’t getting it.
So let me lay it out clearly: in a nutshell, this is about trust. Executive elders, you once had our trust. Now, we’re just not sure if you deserve it or not.
So in a spirit that wants Mars Hill to move past all the insanity as quickly as possible, not dwell on the negative, and rebuild that trust, here are “12 Steps You Can Take To Rebuild Trust With Your Mars Hill Members”:
1. Fire the PR firm. Churches need to tell the truth, not spin it. Please tell us that members aren’t paying for the PR firm?
2. Hire an independent CPA firm. They should be experienced with churches/non profits; have them thoroughly audit Mars Hill financial records for the past 5 years. Then publish their findings in plain English so we can all read them. Forget about the ECFA endorsement; that doesn’t seem to provide much real accountability. At this point, we don’t know what to believe about the money; however there’s enough funny sounding stuff to make us feel pretty uncomfortable and not be very excited to give more money. Time to put all speculation to rest and just lay out the facts to us.
3. Let Sutton Turner go. Paul Tripp seems to think that you and he are not a great combination and that he may be in over his head. Sutton should be thanked and allowed to move on to another job gracefully.
4. Scrap the current governance system. Come up with a new governance system; pretty obvious to everyone but you that this one ain’t working.
5. Report All Progress Through The Patheos Blog. You’ve made us all daily readers of the Patheos blog. Why? Because we feel ‘spun’ when we read much of the Mars Hill official stuff. Patheos may not be 100% Mars Hill friendly; however it does seem to give us more of the straight scoop on what’s going on than the official Mars Hill information channels.
6. Report monthly on the progress with the 21 former pastors/elders on Patheos. It appears that you have an independent arbitrator handling the process with the 21 former pastors/elders, which is great. Now have each of the 21 report back directly through Patheos as each case is resolved. We just want to hear it directly in their own words that “things are fixed”. We want to see progress.
7. Give up your current 6 week “stepping down” review process. Most of us average members don’t really think this review process is that independent, even the newly announced BoE (Board of Elders). Both the BOAA and the BoE are hand picked boards judging those that picked them. What happens to those who disagree in this process? Of the nine men who signed the now infamous letter, eight are gone. Eight very good men. It’s tough to trust a process where dissenters seem to just disappear. Time is too precious; stop this process so we can focus on real solutions.
8. Tell us what the Executive Elders earn. We all saw the outside of your house on KOMO TV news recently Pastor Mark. Million dollar house KOMO said, which was new information to many of us. Looking at your million dollar home, it does raise questions in our minds. You are telling us to contribute more since giving is down. That’s fine; however first show us the money trail, including all EE salaries, book deals, everything. No hiding money in special trusts or backdoor channels. Complete transparency.
9. Show us a current up to date Mars Hill balance sheet. We want to know what assets Mars Hill owns and what it owes. People are being let go and campuses closed to live inside budget. Fine. You are asking us to give more, fine. But if we have assets that can be tapped into or sold, we would like to know what they are. Sources on the internet say that Mars Hill owns real estate valued at over $10 million. If you want shared sacrifice, we need to understand the full picture of what we have to work with. Publish this on the Patheos blog for all to see; if we are walking in the light, what do we have to be afraid of?
10. Make Pastor Dave Bruskas lead/preaching pastor of the church for the near future. Make him the interim lead pastor and preaching pastor, if he’ll accept the job (he would be subject of course to the new governance system).
11. Hire Paul Tripp. Let him set up a process to fix the ministry culture at Mars Hill. When Mars Hill sent us the email recently saying how angry the elders were that the 9 pastors’
letter was leaked, it kind of missed the point that we all saw plain as day: Paul Tripp thinks our church is the sickest he has ever seen and we are hung up on how the letter got leaked? Doesn’t that kind of prove Tripp’s point a bit? Don’t we all just want the truth here? Paul Tripp needs to have a secure role in partnership with a new elder board of some type to do what he and they think needs to be done, and then report back to us about progress independently.
12. Voluntarily Step Down Pastor Mark. For as long as Paul Tripp and whatever new elder board that is created think you need to. You don’t get to decide your fate at Mars Hill, they do. In your own Pastor Mark like terms, “time to grow a pair”. You’ve said you want to be at Mars Hill the rest of your life; now prove it. Have the stones to voluntarily step down now and submit to Paul Tripp and a new elder governance system so you have the time to get your own internal house in order. We don’t know what’s wrong with you Pastor Mark, but you and the Executive Elders seem to be the only ones who are not seeing the obvious: you need some help. No more hiding behind the skirt of self appointed internal review boards and governance rules you wrote yourself. No more PR firms. No more videos. No more explanations about how detractors are anonymous or blaming ‘negative media attention’ for our woes. We’ve had enough of that; it sounds like unmanly whining.
Pastor Mark, we don’t hate you; we LOVE you. It’s no shame that you need some help; we all do. You have helped us. This church has been our HOME. We love the people here; they are our FRIENDS. Our lives have been TRANSFORMED by Mars Hill. Much good ministry is happening even today at Mars Hill in spite of this mess. We have hope for the future of Mars Hill. Good people are still here and if this gets turned around, many people will return. We can forgive. We want Mars Hill to get back on track. Make us proud to
be Mars Hill members again.
You have taught us, correctly, that it’s all about Jesus. It feels that for some time now, it’s been too much about Mars Hill. Let’s repent of that and get back on track. Trust with us that Jesus will lead a reborn Mars Hill to a new season of Kingdom fruitfulness. “Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith. Who for the joy set before him, endured the cross. Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as sons. “Our fathers disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, in order that we may share in his holiness. 11 No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it. 12 Therefore, strengthen your feeble arms and weak knees.” Hebrews 12:2, 7, 10-12
We know you like Braveheart Pastor Mark; here is a quote from the movie to consider:
“Men don’t follow titles, they follow courage.”
Forget your title Pastor Mark; show us your courage. With love and hope,
Some Mars Hill Members