Remember Mark Driscoll?
Driscoll is the former Seattle-based Mars Hill Church pastor who was charged by 21 of his former elders back in 2014 with an abusive style of leadership. There were two groups of leaders at Mars Hill Church who were involved in deciding what to do with Driscoll. The group of elders who investigated the charges found that he should be disqualified from ministry. Another group of overseers loyal to Driscoll did not want to communicate to the church that he was disqualified but wanted to keep him from the pulpit for a break. That group had not been a part of the investigation process and had not heard the evidence. In the middle of the several days these two groups were in disagreement, Driscoll resigned from the church without entering any process of restoration.
In short, a jury of his elder peers found him to be disqualified to be a pastor-elder. Instead of being restored by those elders, he left the scene and eventually started a new church — The Trinity Church — in Scottsdale, AZ.
It should come as little surprise that Mark Driscoll’s new church apparently has solved the elder problem which led to his demise at Mars Hill. Just don’t have any.
During the past couple of weeks, several former members of The Trinity Church in Scottsdale have contacted me to talk about about aspects of Mars Hill Church in Seattle. They contacted me due to my coverage of Mars Hill from late 2013 until 2015. They tell stories remarkably similar to those I heard from former Mars Hill members during that span of time. There is one major difference. In the current church, there are no elders who are putting on any brakes. There are no elders to whom appeals can be made. Several former members and staffers have told me that The Trinity Church does not have elders.
Some things do sound the same. Non-disclosure agreements are again being used. Money is again conditioned on silence. People are describing abrupt decisions about membership without due process. Friends and family who are considered disloyal to the church are being shunned. At some point, these stories may be told. For now, according to former members and staff, the pastors who are there in addition to Driscoll are not elders in the decision making sense of the office. If elders hold you accountable in one place, eliminate them in the next place.
Doctrine: Who Needs It?
Over the years, Driscoll has taught often about elders. On The Trinity Church website, Driscoll has his book with Gerry Breshears — Doctrine: What Christians Should Believe — available for download. In that book, he discusses the biblical role of elders in a local church:
“The church is organized under qualified and competent leadership. The senior human leaders are men called elders (pastors).” (p. 309)
“The Bible describes the office of elder-pastor or overseer as the highest office in a local church, a position charged with the responsibility of overseeing the doctrinal soundness and spiritual health of the church. There is no end of confusion over the title pastor. It is often used for leaders of the church who get paid for their ministry, or specifically for the preacher. Negatively, this false understanding separates pastors from elders, the biblical term for senior leaders.” (p. 319)
“The duties of elders revolve around two major areas of responsibility: pastoral care (including equipping Christians for ministry and oversight of the church) and guiding and guarding the teaching of the church (including the preaching of God’s Word when the church assembles). The elders are the senior leadership team in a church and as such they bear primary responsibility for the well-being of the church’s people, resources, and doctrine.” (p. 319)
“It is important to note that the Bible always speaks of elders in the plural. This follows the New Testament pattern that ministry is to be done by teams so that everyone is under authority, including those in authority. While there will almost always be one man on the team of elders who is the leader of the elders, a “first among equals” elder, he does not hold a categorically different office from the other elders.” (p. 320)
There is more, but it should be clear that a local church as envisioned once upon a time by Driscoll and Breshears should have more than one elder. The Trinity Church does have pastors – in fact, the church lists five pastors: Brandon Anderson, Eden Fine, Darien Bennett, Carl Steele, and Landon Chase. However, as noted, nowhere are they referred to as elders. I wrote The Trinity Church asking about this without answer and the church bylaws are not available online. The former members and staff I spoke to said the bylaws are not available to members. Naturally, if the church has an alternative perspective, I will add it to the post.
So what is The Trinity Church? One former member I spoke to said it appears to be more like a family business. And indeed it may be. As I documented in prior years, the religion business can be quite lucrative for some. And if that is what a person wants in their Sunday morning activities, it is a free country. However, others would like to know if what went around before is coming around again.
I may be stating the obvious, but I really think Driscoll just wants money and power. Like so many of these types, church is his schtick, the only way he knows to easily get that. The cult just grows out of that. I hate to draw on over-used scripture, but if you build a house on a bad foundation, you never know what you will get. In his case, it’s a full-blown cult.
“And if that is what a person wants in their Sunday morning activities, it is a free country. However, others would like to know if what went around before is coming around again.” I go there and what I want is a pastor who is willing to preach the whole Word of God, even if it goes against the cult of political correctness, and many don’t. They want to be nice and not offend anyone with the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Mark preaches the truth. It is refreshing. He is repentant of his past mistakes and many are coming to our church because of their desire to hear the truth preached boldly. The only time I hear of Throckmorton is when he is unbiblically tearing down Christian leaders.
The line forms to the right. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/05e696739382b1c4327b488c0d705df5129f50e1083aacaf280be1fceae6ff8f.jpg
I’m sorry, but that response is so lame.
And I rather doubt you’re sorry! 🙂
I am, I don’t like to use that kind of response, but your answer took no thought and had no substance.
if Driscoll is repeating the same things that got him in trouble before, how is he “repentant of his past mistakes”?
What is “unbiblical” about what Warren has posted?
There are various Scriptures that say to avoid stirring up trouble, to be peacemakers, do not repeat gossip. These situations should be dealt with by the people involved, people who know the whole story. I see Throckmorton referred to as a “Christian whistleblower”. I don’t see any justification in Scripture for that. If he were addressing a situation at the college where he works or his own church, then that would be appropriate and helpful. Or if he were helping the parties involved privately, then OK. But using his platform to write about these things, he’s just stirring up dissension in the body of Christ. Seeing the comments that people make after reading his articles proves how destructive this role is, smearing the whole church as if we were cult followers and as if Driscoll wasn’t preaching Jesus. I don’t claim to know all the details of what has happened, but I know people who know more than I do. Christ is being preached, scripture is being boldly proclaimed, people are getting saved and baptized and a lot of mature Christians are discipling young believers there. I will certainly keep testing the spirits.
I believe there are other scriptures about helping others (including warning others about potential dangers) and calling out those who are leading others astray. Driscoll has caused serious harm to people in the past, and is continuing to do so now.
Warren provides evidence of his claims (with documentation and statements from verifiable witnesses), whereas you simply make unfounded claims. You are the one “stirring up trouble” not Warren.
You claim “people are getting saved and baptized” as a justification to ignore those who are being hurt.
Yes, apparently Throckmorton has spoken to one side and heard their story. I would like to hear from both sides and if Mark is in the wrong I would wish there would be confession and restoration.
Why would you assume there would be “confession and restoration” this time when there wasn’t before? Driscoll simply ran away from the consequences of his actions last time. Based on the reports (by Warren and others) he hasn’t changed at all since then. Other than to learn NOT to have church elders or anyone else who could hold him accountable for his actions.
Driscoll won’t talk; never has. Try to talk to him about it. I can’t wait to hear how that goes. Talk to Brandon Anderson, see how that goes. Talk to the Manueles and then tell Anderson and/or Driscoll you talked to them and see how long you are allowed to attend the church.
I plan on digging deeper. Starting tomorrow. We shall see.
I don’t know your name, or I would properly address you.
Mark has never reconciled with me, or any member, or any former elder that I know of.
On the other hand, Dave and I have tried to meet with and reconcile with as many people as we can. We are not better than Mark. No, we just seen our sin and want to repent and reconcile with as many people as possible.
If you want to dig, start with the video interviews that Pastor Dave Bruskas and I did with Warren. Remember, Warren was the #1 critic of Mars Hill back “in the day” and that was why Pastor Dave and I sat down with him. We did our best to shine light on what happened. There were a lot of unanswered questions, like the investigation, closing of Mars Hill, etc. Our interview was WELL before any of this new Trinity stuff came out.
Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLP1JqWfsz4
Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIdTqfDV1l4
All the best to you,
Sutton Turner
I don’t know your name, or I would properly address you.
Mark has never reconciled with me, or any member, or any former elder that I know of.
On the other hand, Dave and I have tried to meet with and reconcile with as many people as we can. We are not better than Mark. No, we just seen our sin and want to repent and reconcile with as many people as possible.
If you want to dig, start with the video interviews that Pastor Dave Bruskas and I did with Warren. Remember, Warren was the #1 critic of Mars Hill back “in the day” and that was why Pastor Dave and I sat down with him. We did our best to shine light on what happened. There were a lot of unanswered questions, like the investigation, closing of Mars Hill, etc. Our interview was WELL before any of this new Trinity stuff came out.
Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLP1JqWfsz4
Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIdTqfDV1l4
All the best to you,
Sutton Turner
When is Mark going to withdraw charges against the M family? When is he going to apologize to the M son? When is he going to apologize to the M family? When is he going to get the stones to walk out to the sidewalk and say, “Dee Holmes, let’s talk about why you think I’m like David Miscavige, the head of Scientology.” He’s never going to do these things, because he’s too chicken to do so.
Obviously I don’t know what all went on. Or what will happen. I will just pray for this situation to find some reconciliation.
So you admit to knowing less than nothing, yet you are so full of yourself that you know that we are all wrong? Sounds like you are the one who loves jumping to conclusions. Ever pay attention to Proverbs? Ever read it for yourself? “In a lawsuit the first to speak seems right, until someone comes forward and cross-examines.” According to Solomon believing only what one party says without bothering to talk with the other is just plain stupid. Need I say more?
Less than nothing. That’s funny.
Definitely a disciple of Mark, not Jesus. Every bit as rude, cocky and trollish. The fun of Discus is that I can block trolls so I never have to bother with them. Bye!
Pretty loose definition of trolling, rudeness, and cockiness. Simply pointing out that knowing less than nothing doesn’t make sense. Especially since I go to his church, I would hardly say I know nothing.
Did someone tell you there are people Mark is accountable to or did you just make that up? You still haven’t informed us who they are. It might be nice for the Manueles and Freeses to know who they are so they could have some due process. If you are going to say Jimmy Evans and Robert Morris, or even Randal Taylor, then by all means tell us that but we already know they are on the nonprofit board. Randal Taylor actually does services for Driscoll which doesn’t make him exactly objective. Evans and Morris run churches of their own and are unavailable to do anything to hold him accountable.
Reading the comments to articles of those who follow you – not great fruit Professor. Hope your students are not similar. I will be discussing this with our classical Christian school Headmaster to warn him.
Maybe you should warn your Headmaster about you:
“I’m not a christian, nor will I ever be. People like Driscoll (and you) are a large part of the reason why.
To be fair, I realize you don’t represent all christians (hopefully not even a majority of them), however, you unfortunately represent far too many of them.”
This is what one of my longtime readers said about you.
Btw, you are dodging the subject. I am beginning to believe you know nothing about Trinity church but have been trolling us all along.
I think he does know about Driscoll and Trinity. I also don’t think it is a coincidence he goes silent after Sutton Turner posted to this blog.
You think I am the reason that he is not a Christian?
No, I am here in Scottsdale and go to The Trinity Church. I am looking into it. I am watching what Sutton Turner sent me. But you can dismiss me as a troll if you like.
There’s plenty of evidence to suggest Mark Driscoll does not intend reconciliation EVER.
But he’s not leading anyone astray. My understanding is he’s accused of mistreating people and bullying tactics, and then suddenly he’s a false cult teacher with a bunch of moron sheep who are following some heretical teaching. I am just separating the issues. I’m not justifying bad behavior and I hate that these divisions happen and people get hurt.
There is nothing “sudden” about the suggestion he is engaging in cult-like behaviours.
These behaviours occurred back at Mars Hill as well. You seem to be the only one here who can’t (or simply refuses) to see Driscoll’s patterns of disturbing behaviours and the potential damage they can do.
Great service this morning. God is good.
Maybe, but I don’t think Driscoll is. And that is what these posts are about, Driscoll, not god.
May you have peace and fulfillment and have assurance that what you are doing here is glorifying to God. Hopefully you know Him.
I have no interest in “glorifying god.” I’m here to get information and point out how your claims are misleading/unsubstantiated.
I pray that you would pursue truth including the truth of Jesus dying for you on the cross for your sins and that you would put your faith in him and have peace and eternal life.
I’m not a christian, nor will I ever be. People like Driscoll (and you) are a large part of the reason why.
To be fair, I realize you don’t represent all christians (hopefully not even a majority of them), however, you unfortunately represent far too many of them.
What have I done to offend you, besides have a different perspective and defend people like me from being called cult members?
You come here as an apologist for Driscoll. You make unsubstantiated or misleading claims. You ignore inconvenient questions about your sources. You trivialize (or ignore) Driscoll’s more egregious behaviour, suggesting it is “gossip.” Rather than address the serious claims Warren has made (and supplied ample evidence), you instead misrepresent him as someone spreading idle gossip and suggesting he is a “unbiblical.”
You show yourself to be someone who isn’t really interested in any sort of honest debate on the issues, but rather someone who is trying to derail the discussion. Your childish tactics aren’t fooling anyone and are an insult to the intelligence of the others who post here.
I pray that you would pursue truth including the truth of Jesus dying for you on the cross for your sins and that you would put your faith in him and have peace and eternal life.
Before Driscoll even preached his first sermon here in Arizona, he was an abusive cult leader with a following. We knew this from the implosion of Mars Hill. But you don’t seem to care that Driscoll has a record, he’s doing it again here, he’s getting away with it because he has nobody over him, and you’re helping.
OS what is the name of the “Classical Christian” school you’re talking about? I’m curious to learnbif they use any curricula from Doug Wilson’s many outfits.
Julie Roys has a post up about Driscoll and his plagiarism. Notes that someone else we have never heard of has stolen his sermons, sermons that I doubt Driscoll had anything to do with actually writing in the first place. In the comment section someone named “Henri Ironside” shows up and blasts everyone for leaving any kind of comment there, by leaving his own comment. He is as rude, arrogant and full of himself as Marky is so it made me wonder. The real Henri Ironside has been dead for about 7 decades, so I doubt it is the real one speaking from the grave. Could it be Mark under a new false name?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_A._Ironside
What you describe is similar to the vicious wave of Driscoll attack dogs appearing across social media once his corruption at Mars Hill was exposed. They had no legitimate defense of Driscoll, so they gnashed their teeth thinking their online bullying would fix everything. Their digital footprints haven’t aged well, and neither will this Henri Ironside fellow.
“Ironside” is back again in a new post on Julie’s Blog about Ghost writing sermons and blog posts. It just turns out that one of the old writers who is being quoted worked for Driscoll at Mars Hill. In the first story I talked about above a picture of Driscoll; was used. I have not seen any comments by him before or on any other posts and there are many recent ones. He only comments on the new posts about Driscoll and it does make you wonder if William Wallace II is back? The things this guy says do not make pastors look good by any means.
I seem to recall from the old Mars Hill implosion days that Driscoll was caught posting remarks in forums under the moniker of ‘William Wallace,’ or did I imagine that?
It was William Wallace II and they sounded a lot like what I saw. It could be him or someone mimicking him, it is certainly not a Moody pastor who died 70 years ago.
even if he did have a board of elders who were qualified, it wouldn’t matter. In Seattle he had a bunch of yes men elders who, if they didn’t agree with him, he would bully, intimidate, and belittle until they agreed with him.
He has found his cash cow preaching and I find it doubtful that he would give it up and follow the ways of Christ.
Good point. Even with a board of elders, the self-serving model of church leadership remains authoritarian.
As Fred “Slacktivist” Clark has oft observed, grifters like Driscoll wouldn’t be able to succeed if there were not lots of folks willing to buy what the grifters are selling.
“There’s a sucker born every minute.” — P.T.Barnum
No elders, nobody to hold Mark Driscoll to account, and nobody to get in the way. Grifting and bullying are a lot easier when you’re a one man show.
You don’t know that. You have no idea who Driscoll is accountable to, but it is someone. I know it for a fact. I go to his church. He is a bold preacher of the Word of God pointing people to Jesus every time. Many are coming and the church has grown over 200% in the past year because people are so wanting to hear truth. God bless Mark and his family and protect him from the devil, the accuser of the brethern.
Who then? Who is he accountable to? Name them.
I know the names of a couple of them. I don’t know if it is my place to say and I don’t know if it is your business.
What is there to hide? It is a church. Elders shouldn’t have to hide their identity. You are treating this like it is a cult. Secret leaders, secrets can’t tell the public, that is cult like.
A sad argument from an intellectual like yourself. Are you an anti-Trumper who calls everything you don’t like and anybody who disagrees with you cultish? Even if there are issues with leadership style and behavior toward this family or families to address, can we stop with the foolish “cult” accusations. There is no sense of following a cult leader, at all.
How in the name of sanity did Trump get into the discussion?
Because I drew a similarity between the constant accusations of Trump being a cult leader and Trump supporters being like cult followers and Throckmorton throwing out the cult-like accusation here as well. People can have their opinions, criticisms and disagreements, but this cult accusation thing is ridiculous.
Let there be an irrational troll! SInce when is trolling truth?
Huh?
Look in the mirror. Driscoll never does and look at how good he is at getting into trouble.
Look, Steven Hassan, who is something of an expert on cults, published a book last fall about the Trump cult. And given how Evangelicals have clung to Trump despite his bad behavior and the fact that he instigated an insurrection on January 6, it’s still a cult out there. I had a guy at The Trinity “Church” tell me one Sunday (May 2) that my problem was I didn’t vote for Trump. When he drove into the church parking lot on May 9, he said “Biden s***s d***” to me. That’s not why I’m out there, but he felt compelled to say that. It’s a cult, buster.
” he said “Biden s***s d***” to me.”
How christian of him.
I cannot deny that there are obnoxious Trump supporters, as there are obnoxious Obama/Biden supporters. People will be people and not a good witness of Christ sometimes. Most Christians I know supported Trump because of his policies that aligned with our values, like life, liberty, religious freedom, standing with Israel, promoting economic opportunity for all, national security, and standing up to the bullies of the left, especially in media.
However, there are no Biden supporters who have mounted an insurrection in an effort to prevent a duly elected president from taking office.
Lots of Biden supporters cheating around the country. As is being found out in the Arizona audit and just seen in machines not counting Republican votes in Pennsylvania yesterday.
You really need to stop getting your news from OAN.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/voting-machines-across-pennsylvania-county-not-accepting-republican-ballots-in-local-races-report/ar-BB1gStZ2
You are now changing the subject and spreading another set of falsehoods. When you are going to tell us who Mark Driscoll is accountable to?
Just responding to Ken who changed the subject. I’m starting to think you’re not really interested in the whole truth of things Professor.
Just responding to Ken who changed the subject. I’m starting to think you’re not really interested in the whole truth of things Professor.
Why don’t you respond to the questions about Driscoll instead? there are several you have just ignored.
No you are not just responding to ken. You brought Trump into this with this comment to me above:
“A sad argument from an intellectual like yourself. Are you an anti-Trumper who calls everything you don’t like and anybody who disagrees with you cultish? Even if there are issues with leadership style and behavior toward this family or families to address, can we stop with the foolish “cult” accusations. There is no sense of following a cult leader, at all.”
Who at The Trinity Church does Driscoll answer to?
I just brought Trump into it because this broad brush cult accusation sounded so familiar to the past four years of being called a cult Trump follower. And I don’t see how that is helpful to anything, especially among Christians. I don’t know Mark personally and I don’t know if he has an anger problem. And if he does, that does not make me a cult follower or any other members I know at Trinity. As I have said before, I don’t know what has happened behind the scenes, but there is no sense at all of cult behavior or a cult environment. I hear Martin Luther had a bit of an anger problem. So were the early Lutherans a cult?
“I don’t know Mark personally”
So you don’t know Driscoll personally, but you can’t remember if he was the one who told you there were people in authority over him (with respect to Trinity church).
“I can’t remember if Mark said so or I heard it from someone else “
Well, not none. I wonder why these guys were there.
“An accused left-wing grifter, who claimed he embedded himself among Trump supporters during the Capitol riot for journalistic reasons, was hit with three additional charges in connection with the Jan. 6 siege.” (John Sullivan)
“At least two known Antifa members were spotted among the throngs of pro-Trump protesters at the Capitol on Wednesday, a law enforcement source told The Post.
The Antifa members disguised themselves with pro-Trump clothing to join in the DC rioting, said the sources, who spotted the infiltrators while monitoring video coverage from the Capitol.”
“On Thursday night, damning new footage showed CNN’s Jade Sacker inside of the Capitol with John Sullivan, the BLM member who was charged by federal prosecutors for inciting chaos on January 6th. (Not sure if it’s accurate that she worked for CNN).
Sacker co-conspired with the liberal activist.
The shocking video shows her and Sullivan celebrating and shouting “We did it!” when they got the footage they were looking for.”
Well, not none. Here’s a sampling. I wonder why these guys were there.
“An accused left-wing grifter, who claimed he embedded himself among Trump supporters during the Capitol riot for journalistic reasons, was hit with three additional charges in connection with the Jan. 6 siege.” (John Sullivan)
“At least two known Antifa members were spotted among the throngs of pro-Trump protesters at the Capitol on Wednesday, a law enforcement source told The Post.
The Antifa members disguised themselves with pro-Trump clothing to join in the DC rioting, said the sources, who spotted the infiltrators while monitoring video coverage from the Capitol.”
List of 20 from review of film. Includes Sullivan and maybe the other two. Shows advertisement for Antifa event near the Capitol that day.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/02/breaking-exclusive-list-20-individuals-interest-capitol-january-6th-appear-connected-antifa/
“On Thursday night, damning new footage showed CNN’s Jade Sacker inside of the Capitol with John Sullivan, the BLM member who was charged by federal prosecutors for inciting chaos on January 6th. (Not sure if it’s accurate that she worked for CNN).
Sacker co-conspired with the liberal activist.
The shocking video shows her and Sullivan celebrating and shouting “We did it!” when they got the footage they were looking for.”
Almost right. John Sullivan is someone goes to protests (on the left and the right) looking to get video he can sell. Depending on who you ask the group he founded “Insurgence USA” is a protest organization or a con to get money.
However, Jade Sacker is NOT employed (nor was she on Jan 6) by CNN or NPR.
this is as far down the rabbit hole I’m following you on this issue. The topic here is about Mark Driscoll, not Trump, his followers or the insurrection on Jan. 6th. You are just bringing this issue up to avoid answering questions about Driscoll.
You brought it up. I was just pointing out that there were Biden supporters there.
“there are no Biden supporters who have mounted an insurrection in an effort to prevent a duly elected president from taking office.”
This is outside the discussion, but Trump
* trashed the economy when he failed to move quickly on COVID.
*showed he really cared about life by utterly failing on the COVID issue.
* made it clear that he only cared about the liberty of white people who supported him. I’m thinking about when he sent the troops in on June 1, 2020 to break up a peaceful demonstratn Lafayette Square. The troops clubbed a reporter and cameraman from Australia’s Channel 7, which was broadcasting live into that country’s breakfast show and caused an international incident.
* made it clear he only cared about some people’s religious freedom religious freedom-he abused the Episcopal church for his Bible stunt on the same day.
* supported Bibi Netanyahu’s continued attempts to crush the Palestinians. While I doubt that Trump understands, much less believes in the one of the various Evangelical theories regarding Israel and the Second Coming, our foreign policy should be somewhat more nuanced than “Let’s Let Israel Poke At Things With Sticks And Maybe Jesus Will Return!”
I would also note, as my first degree (BA) is in government, that we don’t have an effective “Left” in the USA. What we have had is a series of right of center elected governments that would be virtually unrecognizable in Europe, where they do have a thriving Left. However, Trump was not even right of center, it was all about him. Which is probably why you like Trump and Driscoll, because it’s all about them and not about America (Trump) or Jesus (Driscoll).
And if there was ANY inclination on my part to cut Trump any slack, it evaporated completely on January 6 when he sent his GOP supporters to invade the Capitol to stop the certification of the electoral college votes. I took an oath decades ago to support the Constitution, and I am STILL LIVID about what happened that day. My own congressman tried to disenfranchise the very voters who sent him back to Congress.
But none of this has to do with Driscoll. It does have everything to do with Evangelicalism, which is in the process of burning itself into ash because it supported the WORST person to be president in the last 96 years. (It’s hard to say about Warren G. Harding, he died before the extent of his corruption in the Teapot Dome scandal could be determined.) I am absolutely NOT surprised that Evangelicalism can’t bring itself to deal with Mark Driscoll, because it’s still worshiping Donald Trump and pushing the Big Lie that the election was stolen.
As for you, I sincerely hope that you extricate yourself and your family from Mark Driscoll’s unaccountable to anyone except the IRS (if they move) cult. There are better places in Phoenix, conservative enough for you, but then you’d miss your guy in tight jeans going on about who knows what and calling it “good preaching.”
Sorry this ended up in chunks, I started it on my phone and then the phone went berserk.
Best wishes.
Because I drew a similarity between the constant accusations of Trump being a cult leader and Trump supporters being like cult followers and Throckmorton throwing out the cult-like accusation here as well. People can have their opinions, criticisms and disagreements, but this cult accusation thing is ridiculous.
Because he is trying to deflect the discussion away from Driscoll.
No, I’m just sick of all the baseless cult talk.
if you had bothered to try to understand what a cult actually is (or watched the video Warren posted in the other article), you would see the talk isn’t “baseless.”
I know it is baseless.
How? Did you watch the video Warren posted? where does your knowledge about what constitutes a “cult” come from?
When a guy with nobody over him can drop $15K on spying on a family he tossed out, that’s a cult leader. That’s what SCIENTOLOGY DOES.
A sad argument from an intellectual like yourself. Are you an anti-Trumper who calls everything you don’t like and anybody who disagrees with you cultish? Even if there are issues with leadership style and behavior toward this family or families to address, can we stop with the foolish “cult” accusations. There is no sense of following a cult leader, at all.
You are changing the subject. You have made a claim that there are elders in the church in contradiction to former staff and to documents from Driscoll’s own hand. Now you don’t want to name them. If you whoever you are want to be taken seriously, then back up your claim. Name the elders, what is their authority? Why aren’t they listed on line of authority Driscoll gives out to the staff? Why don’t staff know who they are?
In addition to Warren’s questions I’d also like to know how it is that you (Let there be truth) know who these Trinity church elders are?
I can’t remember if Mark said so or I heard it from someone else in the church. And I did not say they were elders, I said they were people he is accountable to.
I can’t remember if Mark said so or I heard it from someone else in the church. And I did not say they were elders, I said they were people he is accountable to.
So you’ve never actually met these people Driscoll (or someone) told you to whom Driscoll claims he is accountable too? Met in any context where these people asserted, themselves, that Driscoll was in some way accountable to them?
And again I’ll repeat Warren’s questions:
what is their authority? Why aren’t they listed on line of authority
Driscoll gives out to the staff? Why don’t staff know who they are?
Listen Mark. You know Warren has been covering you for years. Remember the “Real Marriage” scandal and Result Choice?
Um, I’m not Mark.
For his congregation’s sake, I hope you’re right–but I have my doubts, based on the happenings at Mars Hill.
Maybe because it was the only church open in a pandemic? Just a wild ass guess. And what are the numbers? 100 to 200?
I come from a tradition where the congregation through the annual meeting is the corporate entity. The two big items of business are electing the council and approving the budget. That last bit is important. Why anyone would donate any significant money to a church whose budget is a black hole is beyond me.
Because God will PUNISH them if they don’t.
As the Driscoll troll in this comment section clearly illustrates, lies and obfuscation are their preferred method for trying to keep Driscoll from being held accountable. Such trolls are understandably in a panic. The Driscoll cult is unraveling in real time just like other cults such as the Trumpvangelicals, the Duggar (Quiverfull) cult, the “Love Has Won” cult, and so many more.
An atmosphere of disrespect I see. A troll because I try to speak truth since I attend there. I don’t claim to know everything but speak to what I do know. Why does the Professor allow this?
An atmosphere of disrespect I see. A troll because I try to speak truth since I attend there. I don’t claim to know everything but speak to what I do know. Why does the Professor allow this?
Not “speak the truth”, hide the truth.
As far as “speaking to what you know” if that were true you would be able to provide simple straight forward answers to questions you have been asked. You refuse, which says a great deal about your interest in “the truth.”
No longer a Court of Yes-Men.
Pure FUEHRERPRINZIP.
“So what is The Trinity Church?”
The latest manifestation of the Cult of Driscoll.
Both ends of the alimentary canal and all.
You know nothing. Go there and then make a judgement.
No need to.
“Mark Driscoll Accused of Cult-Like Actions; 24/7 Surveillance, Mandated Loyalty”
https://julieroys.com/mark-driscoll-cult-like-actions-24-7-surveillance-loyalty/
Mark told a story this morning. Years ago a lady came up to him and said I’m leaving the church because I read online that you are a wife beater and I won’t ask your wife because she will just lie. And other maligning stories about Christian’s that turned out to be false.
You are doing the same. Nobody here knows the whole story.
Driscoll tells a lot of stories. Doesn’t mean they are true. While we may not know “the whole story.” We know enough. The only reason “the whole story” isn’t out there, is because when Driscoll was supposed to face questioning about what he did, he ran away instead.
The only one here who is refusing to hear “the whole story” is you. When you are asked a revealing question about Driscoll or your claims, you ignore them.
Further, people like Warren and Roys are not just “saying things” online about Driscoll . They are providing actual evidence to support the claims they make.
Leopards can change their spots… but the sad truth is that they rarely do.
“…others would like to know if what went around before is coming around again.”
I’d say it’s all but inevitable. Driscoll ran away from being held accountable for his abuse at Mars Hill, so he never had to own, or deal with, his crap. When he set up shop again, nothing had changed.
My only surprise is that it’s taken so long for people to start speaking up again.
Trinity church is turning into a family operation…according to the website, Ashley (Driscoll) Chase is the executive director of Driscoll’s personal ministry, “Real Faith.” She’s also married to the youth pastor Landon Chase.
Cadet Bannerman house of the Great House of Driscoll.
I wonder who the primary financial donors are. If Driscoll recruited a millionaire or two to join his congregation, that might be enough for the Driscoll family to live on. When the money dries up, the Driscolls can just relocate in search of more money.
Hunh, sounds like Trinity Church needs a picket in a baaaaad way.
Hunh, sounds like Trinity Church needs a picket in a baaaaad way.
Pics or it didn’t happen 🙂
I need to figure out my angle…will keep you posted. I may just go with something like, Mark Driscoll ran away from his Seattle church, will he do the same here when things go south?
I’d suggest something more along the lines of: “The Bible says churches should have elders, why doesn’t Driscoll?”
“Driscoll, where is your church’s elders?”
You can join the angry old lady that is there now.
I *am* the 60 YO woman standing out there. Not angry, just perplexed and sad that Mark Driscoll has got a bunch of people following him, like the Pied Piper.
Not following him. Listening to his preaching. Following Jesus. Are you sure that this is what God wants you to do?
Not following him. Listening to his preaching. Following Jesus. Are you sure that this is what God wants you to do?
Well, our church is growing and growing, so unfortunately, your tactics are not working. You are probably aware that we have added a fourth service and it is mostly full. We follow Jesus, we listen to Mark preach.
Mark Driscoll’s Mars Hill Seattle church (and satellites in California, Oregon, Arizona and New Mexico) collapsed spectacularly in the last months of 2014. That can be directly placed on Driscoll, because he refused to sit under his elders and instead his big ego had him go off to Scottsdale.
Do not bother with this. I suspect William Wallace II is back, or it is one of his well paid minions. Just wasting our time with this…
No. Just defending a pastor and congregation against cult accusations. I am not saying what did or did not happen behind the scenes, but reading this discussion about a cult is out of control and irrational. I go to the church. Someone yelling something rude out the window is very bad, but there is no cult behavior. Just trying to not allow an echo chamber of false accusations about my church.
Why is Mark Driscoll’s “The Trinity Church” a Bible-based cult?
* Mark Driscoll has no oversight whatsoever. Not even you can name his “elders.”
* THERE IS NOBODY WHO CAN TELL MARK DRISCOLL NOT TO DO SOMETHING.
This leads to the following:
* Mark Driscoll is the sole determiner of membership at “TTC.” If you cross him, you will be tossed out.
* Mark Driscoll will then file charges of “threatening communication” with the local police department against the head of family.
* Mark Driscoll will also authorize $15,000 to spend on a private investigator to tail the family.
* Mark Driscoll will authorize spending from the church account to pay for an intern’s honeymoon.
* Mark Driscoll will spend church monies on all sorts of things, including a broken down bus (which was hidden behind a dumpster last Saturday), a knock-off Airstream (at least $20K if purchased from Alibaba), a grill, industrial misters, picnic tables, umbrellas on wheels, a bouncy house and other equipment, all sorts of renovations to the building, then a purchase of an office condo ($740,000) up on North Hayden Road. The church biz must be good–he lives in a million dollar house up in north Phoenix and his son-in-law Landon Clark’s house (bought a couple years ago) is worth well over $400,000.
* But Mark Driscoll allegedly will not properly PAY his interns, who instead get gift cards under the table so Driscoll can allegedly avoid paying “TTC’s” half of Social Security and Medicare taxes. I know someone who went to prison for that, 8.5 years. This guy (Kent Hovind) is at least as egotistical as Mark Driscoll…even after 8.5 years in federal prison, he still thinks he was prosecuted wrongly!
* Oh yeah…Mark Driscoll is SO THREATENED by “who knows what” in SCOTTSDALE of all places that he has a Scottsdale rent-a-cop at every service. Last Saturday the rent-a-cop was giving advice to the “Honk if you love Jesus” sign wavers. This is why I have to wear a running GoPro camera, because the rent-a-cop is paid for by “TTC” and thus cannot be expected to support my First Amendment right to be on the sidewalk.
I have LOTS of experiences with cults. I had my home picketed by a notorious space alien cult. That same space alien cult plastered my neighborhood with flyers containing my picture and the words “religious bigot.” I have heard it all before. This is NOT about religious bigotry. It’s about Mark Driscoll’s egotistical abuse of the people around him and the money they’ve donated to him.
And the reason Evangelicalism refuses to deal with Driscoll is because he’s running a Bible-based cult, emphasis on Bible-based. If the Evangelical Industrial Complex went after Driscoll, they’d have to go after the many other abusive Bible-based cults (many in megachurches) where there’s no authority and the only justice you get is by leaving and saving your own life.
Just because a guy claims he’s teaching out of the Bible doesn’t mean he isn’t a cult leader. Driscoll is a cult leader.
Sigh.
That’s not an answer. Seriously.
No. Just defending a pastor and congregation against cult accusations. I am not saying what did or did not happen behind the scenes, but reading this discussion about a cult is out of control and irrational. I go to the church. Someone yelling something rude out the window is very bad, but there is no cult behavior. Just trying to not allow an echo chamber of false accusations about my church.
Just because Driscoll is packing them in is not any sort of sign that he’s God-honoring or doing it right. The fact of the matter is that Driscoll is responding to me being out there and it’s pretty pathetic. He moved the bus back behind a dumpster after I posted pictures of it on Twitter. He had people park their trucks and SUVs nose to tail yesterday, in a futile attempt to block me and my signs. The fear is palpable. Last weekend I had Carl Steele running out to drag away anyone who might even talk to me.
And, just a warning–if you cross Mark Driscoll, you too could be out on your kiester and being spied on by a hired PI. Even if you were in the inner circle.
Well, our church is growing and growing, so unfortunately, your tactics are not working. You are probably aware that we have added a fourth service and it is mostly full. We follow Jesus, we listen to Mark preach.
Well, our church is growing and growing, so unfortunately, your tactics are not working. You are probably aware that we have added a fourth service and it is mostly full. We follow Jesus, we listen to Mark preach.
More like Koresh or Jones.
No.
Yes, having people picket outside the church is a great witness, isn’t it? Unfortunately for your type, sir, the church has grown over 200% in the past year and I as a previous Pennsylvanian go there and love his preaching. You are sad.
Do you also “love” the fact that Driscoll used church funds to surveil former members?
Just because an outfit is growing doesn’t mean it’s a church.
Driscoll is
acting likea cult leader. And you, whoever you are, you’ve fallen hook, line and sinker for his act.Oh brother. Great service today. Romans 12. Blessings.
So what about Mark Driscoll filing a “threatening communication” charge with the Scottsdale PD against the M family?
What about him spending church money on hiring orivate investigators to tail the M family?
What about paying interns and junior interns under the table using gift cards? I know someonebwho was a guest of the Federal Bureau of Prisons for 8.5 years because he tried similar shenanigans with social security taxes for his “missionaries.”
If these kids are working 50 hours a week, they need to be paid overtime too.
What about commingling Trinity Church funds/assets with Real Faith?
What about that $740,000 cash payment for an office condo at 14201 N Hayden Rd? The church bought it but it’s supposedly for Real Faith. How does that work?
Who are Mark Driscoll’s elders?
Where are the bylaws of the church? Oh, and the financials?
What’s with Driscoll paying for JM’s honeymoon suite out of the church checking account?
Who can fire Mark Driscoll? Answer: Nobody. He’s got the perfect cult going.
Just because you toss out a chapter of the Bible doesn’t mean that whatever you heard from Driscoll today wasn’t pure egotistical garbage dressed upnin biblical fig leaves.
Mark Driscoll is so afraid of a 60 YO woman that he parked trucks and SUVs to block me and my sign. That’s kind of pathetic, you know?
It sounds like he’s set himself up as the pope of his own church.
The further we get from the Reformation, the more we embrace pre-reformation theology.
With a level of POWER and Infallibility far beyond any actual Pope.
You think Mark Driscoll has far more power and infallibility than the Pope?!?!?!?!
No, but on occasion he certainly seems to think so!
Maybe I missed something, but you know he thinks so how?
This is a weird world in here. I go there. He is a Bible preaching, Jesus loving man. He is repentant of his past and makes reference to his failings often. People are flocking to the church because so few preachers preach the Bible strongly without appeasement to the culture. We just added a fourth service. I am in my 50s and he is one of the best preachers we have heard after living in several states over the decades. God bless him.
I’m sure he’s a great public speaker. However he is not biblically qualified for ministry. Some of the qualifications for ministry are to be above reproach (and thus not using a marketing company to manipulate book sales), self-controlled (not yelling and swearing at people) and not domineering over people (not sacking staff for questioning his decisions). Look up 1 Timothy 3, Titus 1 and 1 Peter 5.
We are in the kingdom of heaven by Grace alone. But those who are leaders in the church are there by merit, based on personal godliness. All evidence shows that Driscoll’s personal life doesn’t exhibit important fruits of the Spirit. I don’t doubt his salvation… but he should retire from ministry, permanently, because of his persistent sin.
And what if he did some of those things in the past, repented, took time to grow, and God led him to start this church?
God doesn’t lead disqualified leaders to lead again.
Driscoll’s sins are systemic, and were present for well over 10-15 years. Leaders who consistently break 1 Timothy 3, Titus 1 and 1 Peter 5 were and are disqualified for ministry. It doesn’t matter how much they “feel” God is leading them to a future ministry. God doesn’t want Driscoll in ministry.
Yes O All Knowing One.
Ask Mark to see the financials for The Trinity Church. He won’t show them to y0u.
And what if you are speaking without knowing any of the history?
Is his repentance/forgiveness conditional? Do you know the whole story from both sides? That he has done something that disqualifies him from preaching for the rest of his life regardless of repentance? How have we all missed it, those of us who attend there?
His elders in Mars Hill did disqualify him and then he quit the church. He never reconciled with them nor did he submit to their authority as he always taught he was supposed to do. He says he apologized to some big name preachers but he has never even spoken to Sutton Turner or Dave Bruskas or any of the elders from Mars Hill. I know because I have interviewed them. There has been no reconciliation nor closure with them. Ask Driscoll if he has spoken with Sutton Turner and reconciled with him. Report back here what he tells you and then we can get Sutton involved.
“How have we all missed it, those of us who attend there?”
The Driscoll controversy at Mars Hill had been over for a number of years by the time he began his new church. The whole thing was reported in detail in the secular and Christian media.
Why you and others who go to his church chose not to check the internet and find out about your pastor is something you have to ask yourselves.
I had a friend who told us about the church. He had been attending for a while and recommended it. I was aware of Driscoll having problems at Mars Hill years prior. My friend said he feels very good about where Driscoll’s heart is now. I read articles again about what had happened but decided to check out his church here and loved it. Driscoll is obviously a Type A leader personality and he established Mars Hill when he was very young and probably got too big too fast for his maturity level. He makes reference to his past bad behavior. It is always sad when families leave in a bad way, or it is not handled well, which has happened at various churches I have been to and also Christian organizations I have been involved with before and am involved with now.
Let me word that more accurately:
It is always sad when families are kicked out of a church without due process by a pastor in a rage who obviously is repeating the same problems he was disqualified for in his prior church. It is sad because it could be prevented by people who are enabling him by making excuses for his behavior.
Personally, I would like to hear both sides of the story. I am not excusing any bad behavior. Maybe Mark got overly emotional about his daughter’s involvement with this boy. Maybe irrationally so. Maybe being here, at some point I will be able to talk to those who were more directly involved.
I’d like to hear all sides to a story as well. However, Driscoll actively discourages staff from speaking. From Trinity Training (originally posted by Julie Roys:
2. If you engage, you will enrage
…
6. Engage Enrage – If you engage a critic/enemy you will enrage them.
If he were repentant of his past actions, he wouldn’t be repeating them.
And treat the Manueles the way he did? Justify that.
I would like to know the whole story.
what is it you don’t know? and why don’t you know “the whole story?”
None of us were there.
This is what Driscoll supporters whether in Seattle or Phoenix fall back on. They know nothing. They come on here claiming to know Driscoll has repented and is a new man, but then they default to we really don’t know what happened. Actually, we do. We have witnesses and they have spoken. Many people are now speaking out. They are saying much the same thing. It is much the same thing that witnesses said in Seattle. Let there be truth really doesn’t want the truth.
Now I’m really confused … are you saying that if you aren’t there to personally observe something it didn’t happen? Aren’t most things we “know” in life because of the testimony of other people who did observe an event happen? The eyewitness testimony of what happened at Mars Hill is abundant … are you just going to claim it didn’t happen because YOU weren’t there to observe it?
Over two weeks ago you posted here that “I plan on digging deeper. Starting tomorrow. We shall see.” Can you share any updates as to what you have been able to dig into and what you have discovered?
Someone mentioned the Manueles. I have talked to someone who saw texts of threats to the church.
What did these texts say? and WHO sent these texts?
Nothing will satisfy you. I trust my source, without knowing or sharing every intricate detail. This is your lives, and I have much better things to do.
Unsubstantiated claims and a refusal to provide any relevant detail never will. You made claims of “threats to the church” but won’t say what these “threats” actually were. Nor will you even say if these “threats” are from Manuele (which you imply but don’t actually say).
You keep demanding “the whole story” but refuse to provide any real information yourself.
I didn’t ask if you were there. I asked what is it you don’t know? and why don’t you know “the whole story?”
No one knows the whole story of any of it. Some know what one side has said. I am merely stating that before all these accusations are made, seems like the honest thing would be to know the whole story, like we learned when we were kids. And since none of us can know the whole story about these things, that maybe we have better things to do than sit in a common section and smear people, including a congregation of which is completely innocent.
You didn’t intend to, but you have just admitted your demands for “the whole story” are nothing more than a attempt to prevent discussion about Driscolls reprehensible behaviour. You demand something you know people can’t provide as a way of avoiding addressing the evidence they can provide.
it isn’t a “smear” to provide facts (which you keep ignoring). Warren, and Juilie Roys (and others) provide actual evidence of their claims, Evidence your childish tactics aren’t going to hide.
Yes, from one side of the story. I’m done here.
You have never told us who Driscoll is accountable to at the church.
You were done before you started. Your misinformation, dissembling and evasions were never going to work here.
However, your posts are a good example of the type of person who would blindly follow Driscoll.
Pre-reformation theology. Sounds like a reference to Luther. Ever study his life? Peter? David? There are lots of people who are quick to disqualify others from leadership for life.
The people who are now coming forward are saying the same things that the people he left behind in Seattle said – These things: /2014/08/21/former-mars-hill-church-pastors-bring-formal-charges-against-mark-driscoll/. You should talk to some of them. Talk to Chad Freese, former director of security. He will explain to you the kind of language Mark Driscoll uses to refer to his congregation.
You are forgetting Warren, according to him, he is still a member of Driscoll’s church, so it probably isn’t allowed to talk to Freese.
Mark Driscoll is afraid of a 60 YO woman with a sign. Otherwise why would he have trucks and SUVs parked nose to tail in front of the picnic area?
If you haven’t started already, you should start taking pics while you are outside the church. It would be useful to have documentation of how Driscoll and his disciples are reacting to your protests (ex. the changes in parking).
“Driscoll and his disciples”. That’s funny. We are disciples of Jesus, like any other Bible believing church.
You certainly don’t act like a “disciple of Jesus.” You act like someone hellbent on defending Driscoll at all costs.
No elders, no accountability, and no gospel other than Mark Driscoll’s self-serving gospel of self worship. So glad congregants are beginning to speak out, even if understandably off the record in order to protect themselves from Driscoll’s long record of spiritual abuse.
Pure FUEHRERPRINZIP.
You also know nothing, as other commenters. I go to the church and all he preaches is straight from the word. We are going through Romans now. It is completely Jesus, Word of God focused. You will be judged by your words. You don’t know the facts or who these people are who are making accusations. Or Driscoll’s heart after what occurred in Seattle.
And another Pastor/Dictator’s Sock Puppet Truth Squad is spamming the thread.
I’ve seen this pattern before in other Church Corruption Whistleblower Blogs – Wartburg Watch, Wondering Eagle. Every time they expose some crooked ManaGAWD, the comment thread gets flooded with vocal Defenders of the Faith who have NEVER commented on the blog before, with handles that usually include “Concerned” or “Truth” or “Christian” or some variant thereof.
You can almost set your clock by it. Once again,
“Throw a rock into a pack of junkyard dogs and the one who YELP!s is the one who got hit.”
And another Pastor/Dictator’s Sock Puppet Truth Squad is spamming the thread.
I’ve seen this pattern before in other Church Corruption Whistleblower Blogs – Wartburg Watch, Wondering Eagle. Every time they expose some crooked ManaGAWD, the comment thread gets flooded with vocal Defenders of the Faith who have NEVER commented on the blog before, with handles that usually include “Concerned” or “Truth” or “Christian” or some variant thereof.
You can almost set your clock by it. Once again,
“Throw a rock into a pack of junkyard dogs and the one who YELP!s is the one who got hit.”
I live in the real world. This is crazy town over here. I have made nothing but rational, logical, calm statements just trying to dispel the smear of an entire congregation.
No, what you have done is made misleading,unfounded statements which you refuse to support with any evidence. You ignore questions that force you to acknowledge the abuses committed by Driscoll.
I suspect the world you live in is one where “pastors” like Driscoll are perfectly normal and Trump won the 2020 election. Not the real world at all.
You also know nothing, as other commenters. I go to the church and all he preaches is straight from the word. We are going through Romans now. It is completely Jesus, Word of God focused. You will be judged by your words. You don’t know the facts or who these people are who are making accusations. Or Driscoll’s heart after what occurred in Seattle.
It is super easy to say words from the pulpit. However, I have talked to all of these people and the patterns are there. You can ignore it if you want to but that doesn’t make it go away. When a pastor is a rageaholic to his staff, and his family and can’t stand it when somebody crosses him or disagrees with him, it doesn’t matter what words he strings together in a sermon, his life doesn’t match those words. You are enabling him by not calling for an investigation. Where are your elders? Where is you financial statement and your public budget? Where does the money go? You are not just judged by your words, you are judged by your deeds.
As are you.
William Wallace II is that you? Charming as ever…
Super easy huh? Historical contexts? Meaning of Greek words? No such thing as a teacher/preacher gift – anybody can do it? Anyway.
“Live in harmony with one another. Do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly. Never be wise in your own sight. Repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all. If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.””
Romans 12:16-19
“And now I make one more appeal, my dear brothers and sisters. Watch out for people who cause divisions and upset people’s faith by teaching things contrary to what you have been taught. Stay away from them. Such people are not serving Christ our Lord; they are serving their own personal interests.”
Romans 16:17-18
Until we may meet in heaven….
and once again you ignore the relevant questions. Hiding behind the pulpit/scripture may work on Driscoll’s “flock”, but it won’t work here.
Mark Driscoll appears to be running his church like a crime-syndicate-of-sorts where he’s The Godfather!
As Lord Acton said, “power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.”
and as Scotty said:
“Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.”
Is a more apt quote here. Driscoll’s history is pretty easy to find. While I hope his congregants don’t end up traumatized by him, I’m gonna have a hard time feeling sorry for them if they do.
Some will be minors with no say in the matter.
As Frank Herbert (Dune) said, “Power attracts the already corrupt and the easily corrupted.”
As a regular attender of The Trinity Church – just no. You are really going to smear a whole congregation? See, this is where this leads. Does this glorify God to call a whole congregation of Jesus followers corrupt?
I go there. I love it. It is the kind of church I have wanted for years and could not find. The Bible preached straight, with courage and not appeasement. He points to Jesus all the time. I don’t understand why you all are so crazy.
Because Mark Driscoll is the kind of guy who was too scared to come out and talk to the 55 YO woman on his sidewalk in 2016, and he’s still afraid to talk to the now 60 YO woman back on his sidewalk. Because he lost his marbles when a 15 YO boy kissed his 17 YO daughter. Because he threw the family out for what the kid did. Because he then filed a complaint of “threatening communication” against the family. Because he’s alleged to have used church money to spy on the family.
Because he’s doing the same damn things he did to sink Mars Hill in Seattle. The difference here is that he has no elders and is his own king. The only ways to hold him accountable are to leave his church or, like me, stand outside his church with a sign, and never go in.
this is becoming (or already is) a case where it appears doubtful that justice will be served in this lifetime. sad.