I Don’t Believe Most of What Johnnie Moore Said in His CBC Interview About Gospel for Asia

In his interview with CBC reporter Angela MacIvor, Gospel for Asia spokesman Johnnie Moore justified the diversion of funds to Believers’ Church Medical College Hospital by saying there are no other hospitals in the area for “many miles.” This and nearly everything else Moore said in his interview requires scrutiny. I started that activity last week and this week, I turn my attention to the rest of the interview.

In this interview, MacIvor asked Moore why some of the funds donors gave for poor people went to build a state of the art hospital in Kerala (first reported here). In response, Moore said:

It was all happening. It was all happening. They were building hospitals, the hospital that you are referencing, I’ve been to it. I’ve walked around it. I’ve sat down with people being cared for in the hospital. I’ve sat with the director of the hospital. I’ve seen the gigantic statue of Jesus in the center of the hospital, and by the way, that hospital is the only hospital of its kind within a very long distance. I mean people come from all over that part of India to get great health care for themselves. Not only that, by the way, you know they’re training doctors and nurses to serve other people all across the country. You know, this is an organization that has always talked about providing healthcare and educating people and so they’re doing it, they’re doing it. And while they’re doing it, they’ve also provided goats and wells and medicine and literacy training.

There are problems here.

Moore said: “that hospital is the only hospital of its kind within a very long distance.”

Not true. There are at several other comparable hospitals within 30 miles of Believers’ Church Medical College Hospital. One, the Tiruvalla Medical Mission Hospital is a modern state of the art facility with a location only 3.4 km away (about a 9 minute drive) (see the image below).

St. Ritas Hospital is 10 minutes away. St. Thomas Hospital is about 22 minutes away. Each has a nursing school and other medical training. There are numerous specialty clinics in the vicinity as well (heart, dental, etc.). Since Moore says he has been there, it seems like he should know that.

Moore added: “Not only that, by the way, you know they’re training doctors and nurses to serve other people all across the country.”

I am sure that the school does train doctors and nurses but Moore makes it seem as though there is a shortage of medical training in India. That is not true. According to this list, there are three other medical colleges in the same district (Pathanamthitta) of the state of Kerala as Yohannan’s. About 1.2-million people live in the district which covers just over 9 square miles. In the state of Kerala (the size of New Hampshire and Connecticut combined), there are 36 medical colleges with 2 more planned.

Moore: “I mean people come from all over that part of India to get great health care for themselves.”

While that may be true, they have to pay for it. Moore said there isn’t another hospital of its kind in the area, but the Believers’ Church hospital found one about 30 minutes away to send a poor patient to according to the Deccan Chronicle report.

A patient  suffering from breathing difficulty,  who was shifted from a private hospital at Thiruvalla to the MCH [Government Medical College Hospital] here on Wednesday,  had to wait in the ambulance  for over four hours due to the lack of a spare ventilator in the MCH.  The doctors at the private hospital had told the relatives of the patient that medical colleges will have ventilator facility all the time. The plight suffered  by the   patient,  N.K. Saaidharan Pillai, 58, of Pandalam,  was explained to DC  by his daughter Salini on Friday.

Pillai, who had breathing difficulty due to a neurological deficit, was undergoing treatment at the Believers Church hospital at Thiruvalla. However, he was shifted to the Kottayam medical college hospital  on Wednesday as the family could not afford the huge expenses. Salini  said that the doctor who administered treatment to her father at the Thiruvalla hospital told her  that the MCH will have a full- time ventilator facility.   “He told us that there was no need to ring up the MCH about arranging a ventilator,”  she said.

This man couldn’t afford the care at Believers’ Church. Despite the millions given by donors to help poor people in India, this man could not get medical care at a facility that those foreign donations helped build. Does this look like the picture Johnnie Moore was painting?

The Deccan Chronicle report gives a hint that this patient wasn’t the only one dumped on the government hospital. The article concludes:

Meanwhile Winnie Elizabeth Johnson, PRO of the Believers Church hospital told DC that while the hospital authorities used to call them previously, since the MCH authorities used to come up with excuses against assurance regarding the ventilator facility citing increase in patient arrivals, they had stopped calling them anymore.

Apparently, Believers’ Church had been shipping so many patients to the MCH that MCH was coming up with reasons not to take them. Now Believers’ Church Hospital just dumps them. For some reason, she thought that was okay to admit.

Moore concluded: “this is an organization that has always talked about providing healthcare and educating people and so they’re doing it…”

This is a big part of the dispute between donors and GFA. In fact, GFA did not talk about building a hospital and that is the problem. Donors never heard about a hospital and when I first started covering GFA, it was scandalous that such a huge amount of money in fiscal year 2014 (over $14-million) of foreign donations went to the construction and maintenance of the hospital. There were no appeals for funds to build a hospital. It just appeared.

So no, GFA didn’t talk about building a hospital and ask for funds to do it. If Johnnie Moore can find an appeal and document a U.S. campaign in 2012-2014 to build the Believers’ Church Medical College Hospital, I would like to see it.

Apparently, former GFA COO David Carroll didn’t know about it either because he sent a nervous email to K.P. Yohannan after Bruce Morrison and I started asking questions about the Indian public documents (FC-6 Reports). Moore said in the interview that GFA contested the accuracy of those documents. However, David Carroll, GFA’s COO at the time, did not contest them. Here is what he said to K.P. Yohannan in early 2015 in an email reveal during the RICO court case:

Sir, I need to share with you where I am over this situation. I will try to summarize for brevity sake. We have a saying in our country: The numbers don’t lie. The published FC-6 reports show westerners that we have either sent money to the field raised for National Ministries and Bridge of Hope to fund the hospital and the corpus fund, or our FC-6 filings are filed wrong.

Either way, this is a huge problem. It appears to those reading these that we might have been dishonest to the donors (fraud), or been dishonest to the Indian government, (a PR nightmare at least). Sister Siny’s report below will, in my opinion, do little to satisfy those who are printing out and analyzing our FC-6 reports. I am sorry for not expressing more confidence than this. I think we may have used money raised for National Ministries and Bridge of Hope for the hospital.

I think that India feels that we raise money and send it. I think that India feels that we raised money and sent it to them and they can legally use it any way they deem fit. I hope that I am wrong, but I am doubtful. I also don’t think that it is an intentional wrong, but if I am correct, it is a huge wrong. We’ve spoken at hundreds of churches with tears asking for the National Ministries and Bridge of Hope support, and the FC-6 that is public says that we sent much of that money for the hospital and the reserve corpus funds.”

Yes, the money went “to the field” but David Carroll here in the privacy of this email is lamenting that Believers’ Church — which is run by K.P. Yohannan — spent funds meant for ministry to poor people on the hospital and to stock a reserve fund.

An Indian tax court document confirmed the transfer of funds in December 2014. According to the court filing:

…the assessee [Believers’ Church] advanced funds to BCMET [a trust to build the hospital] for construction of hospital building. BCMET is also a registered trust u/s 12AA of the Act. The ld.representative further submitted that Carmel Education Trust also a registered charitable trust u/s 12A of the Act was given funds by the assessee to carry out their charitable activities.

That same court opined that Believers’ Church and GFA used funds inappropriately:

 It is not in dispute that substantial income of the assessee trust was not used by both the assessees for the purposes for which they were formed.

I don’t know if Angela MacIvor will get another chance to interview Mr. Moore. I hope so. I also hope U.S. media will follow up on the CBC documentary and bring more light to GFA.




26 thoughts on “I Don’t Believe Most of What Johnnie Moore Said in His CBC Interview About Gospel for Asia”

  1. The utter ridiculous lying just goes on and on and on. The thing I find so exceedingly illogical about this is how Christians just keep throwing money inside this septic tank without so much as googling to see if there is any problem with the ministry. I am reading C.S. Lewis’s Mere Christianity at the moment. In the book even he way back in the 40’s said that it was wise for donors to attempt to find out the legitimacy of a charity before donating to it. I wonder how many current donors have read this classic and are still not taking Lewis’s advice?

    1. People often believe the lie they want to believe rather than the truth that is harder to accept.
      That is why they are still able to keep staff on board.

      1. I once watched a TED talk from a law enforcement officer about lying. One of the first things that they said was that “lying is a relationship.” I thought about that one for a little while only to find that it is absolutely true. There has to be a hook in the listener in order for them to be able to be taken advantage of. This internal bias is the weakness that evil men like KP and Moore exploit.

        In modern society many want to believe that the little guy can give a little mammon to charity and make a big difference in the world. I have come to believe that that is not true. The only thing that changes the world for the better is the Holy Spirit of God. That can neither be bought or sold. So while people whom the Holy Spirit is using need money to buy food and pay basic necessities, the money is a secondary or even tertiary issue. Raising that to the primary issue in missions is where the whole of “Christian Missions” have gone terribly wrong…

        1. Yes.
          Giving money has its place – and there is Scriptural precedent for that – but the primary issue in missions is the need for the Spirit to work.

  2. Good on Angela MacIvor for reaching out to Cdn charity lawyer Mark Blumberg. – he is a really decent guy and as good as it gets. If he says it could take 10 -15 years before Rev Can rules on Gospel for Asia (GFA World) then there may yet be hope this charity will disappear from Canada.

    “Charity lawyer Mark Blumberg said it’s not unusual for the CRA to take 10 or even 15 years to do an audit before the public ever knows about it. He calls the lack of transparency “unfortunate.”

    “I think that there needs to be a greater ability for CRA to comment on things, especially when it’s in the public domain already that people are making allegations,” said Blumberg.”

    It’s disheartening to read that Canada donates around 25 thousand a day. You’d think with the work Steve Buist did and Angela MacIvor, as well as Dr. Throckmorton, GfA Diaspora etc., Canadians would wake up.

    “For decades, GFA has been active in Canada as well. It continues to raise on average $25,000 a day in this country alone. The charity has strong supporters across North America who continue to contribute funds that they believe are being well used.”

    Moore is unbelievable. Did he think he could just hoodwink a foreign reporter, casually dismiss criticisms and critics, and play just trust me?

    “Moore also says that when it comes to the large sums of money in foreign bank accounts, the charity “should have been heralded for the fact that they kept significant cash reserves in complicated environments.”

    The numbers don’t lie, and a US court certainly didn’t think GfA should be heralded.


  3. India is admittedly still short of doctors and nurses and healthcare is expensive or difficult to get though people in Kerala are probably better off in that regard than people elsewhere in India (people live considerably longer and infant mortality is considerably lower than in the rest of India) since the state government has health care as a high priority. It has a lot of private as well as public hospitals with some of the private hospitals attracting international health tourists (going for both proper medical treatment and pseudo-medical treatments). Believers’ Church Medical College Hospital has:

    “Over the last couple of years, several poor patients have benefited from low cost or subsidized treatment, and in some cases totally free of cost treatment has been provided, to those who would otherwise have been bereft of such care.” https://www.bcmch.org/Donation

    The wording is such as to suggest “several” could be counted on a couple of hands; however, they have separate donation streams to pay for such care (no suggestion that the patients who can pay in full are subsidizing the care of those who can’t). And I’m not sure how much oversight is done to ensure that money goes solely towards paying for the actual cost of care of those who otherwise couldn’t afford it.

    1. I am not a staff of GFA, but followed this ministry from its inception and appreciated the ministry leaders for their simplicity, devotion and commitment to the cause “cause of Christ” – “go to the uttermost parts of the world and preach the Gospel” – lend a hand to the poor and needy. The impact GFA has made to the Kingdom is enormous, much beyond the millions of dollars we are talking about / fighting in the court. So many selfless people devoted their time and money for this cause. Is it a waste ? absolutely NOT. If the call was to serve KP, yes what a waste. If the call was to serve Christ, your investment is eternal. Bruce Morrison and many ex-staffers knew it. How such well minded people become so bitter? Is it because of the direction KP and the leadership team adopted to take “Believers Church” to “Believers Orthodox Church” and then to “Believers Eastern Orthodox Church” ? Based on the timing of GFA staff exodus and other incidents, it seems there is a co-relation. If that is the reason, you need to be applauded for following your heart. However your decision to bring the ministry to the ground and tirelessly work for it, is mind boggling.

      1. Yohannan – Are you a relative of KP Yohannan?

        Do you approve of GFA’s deception in the service of what they do?

        1. Dear Warren, I am not a relative of KP, not even distant relation. I don’t approve deception of any kind by GFA or by anybody else for that matter. It appears that there is deception by those who are talking against GFA as well (my understanding). Most of the comments are just gossips (not based on reality). For those who are thinking of reality:
          1. All the ex staffers were taught about submission during their discipleship training. Those who haven’t gone through discipleship training has definitely seen /read KP’s book “Touching Godliness through submission”. Ex staffers knew about the teaching but started complaining after becoming GFA staff.
          2. Some of those who were part of vision tours and other visits to the field never questioned about their expenses and how the expenses were paid for (my assumption), when they knew that 100% of the designated donation to GFA has to be sent to the field. However they turned back and encouraged others to sue GFA for NOT sending 100% of the donation to the field.

          There are other points as well but cutting short.

          1. “Most of the comments are just gossips (not based on reality).”

            Much of the evidence Warren has presented is based on court filings and other such documents, not “gossip”

          2. Dear Warren,
            I was in Tiruvalla last week. I know a bit how the Believers Medical college works as also how the Tiruvalla Medical Mission works and what the facility they have. Your writing is not even close to reality.

          3. then perhaps you can actually cite evidence showing where Warren made incorrect statements, rather than making unsubstantiated accusations.

          4. GFA told staff and donors that an anonymous donor gave nearly $20-million to complete the Wills Point compound. That was not true. Then they said one of the Indian organizations got a loan to give the money. That was misleading. They told the ECFA that the funds were donor restricted. They told the U.S. court that the funds came from Canadian donors who did not give those funds for the U.S. compound but for purposes in India. GFA has not been honest about those funds until a court of law required them to be honest and even them I am not convinced we know the whole story. You cannot excuse GFA’s deception by alleging deception on the part of others. GFA has repeatedly deflected, deceived and misled donors and the public. I ask again, do you approve of GFA’s deception?

          5. Dear Warren,
            I already answered with a NO. My question to you Mr.Warren, are you willing to ask the questions I raised to the concerned ex-staffers / groups?

          6. Actually you didn’t answer that question before, you equivocated by saying you don’t approve of deception in general, without acknowledging that what GFA did was deceptive. Then went on to imply that the evidence against GFA was just malicious “gossip.”

            If you stick around long enough, you will find that most of the people on this blog are too intelligent to be deceived by such tactics.

          7. I don’t believe they have been deceptive. I believe the only reason we know about GFA’s deception is because they spoke up. GFA did everything they could to keep them quiet.

          8. All the ex staffers were taught about submission during their discipleship training. Those who haven’t gone through discipleship training has definitely seen /read KP’s book “Touching Godliness through submission”.

            I wasn’t quite sure why you included this in your original comment, but, since you did that would be one way of control: teaching submission to authority no matter what order/request is given. Perhaps the order/request was too much for their consciences so they sacrificed their jobs.

          9. Here comes another liar with the last name of Varghese. Sounds like you were named after His High God of KP Yohannan. Are you related to John Varghese who has harassed people here? I called out his brother here after God gave me his name. This family is greatly cursed by God Almighty and it is not KP I am talking about. Everyone over their in India knows what a total snake KP is. He is going to die very soon, do you know that? He is going straight to hell, a place I have seen. Do you really want to follow in his great evil’s footsteps?

          10. Dear Jesperson,
            I am the same Varghese, however I am not trained to answer your comments. If you think I harassed you, I don’t know whether you know the meaning of harassment.

          11. Mr. Jesperson claimed you harassed people, not necessarily him personally.

            and since when does giving a truthful answer require “training”?

          12. Dear Ken,
            I know, who am I, my name, what I do etc. I don’t even use a screen name because I am not gossiping. When that is a fact, a person like Jesperson claims that “he got a vision from God” and writes things which he only knows. How do you answer to him? I should say who he is or to blame God for giving wrong vision to him, as he claims? Even with out saying about who he is, he is saying that I harassed people. How do you answer to a person like Jes with out special training? Hope you understand, if not just leave it.

          13. Generally, I would ask for more specifics. Unless of course I already knew what/who he was referring to in the claims of harassment.

          14. So you are saying that someone “trained you” to come here and harass Prof. Throckmorton? Who would that be? I know the Varghese family is in the employment of what is now the Eastern Believers Church Cult. One thing is obvious about this family making Mammon off of promoting a damned by God personality cult: they act like Machiavellians. Every godman deceiving the masses in India and throughout the world need them. “Machiavellianism in psychology refers to a personality trait which sees a person so focused on their own interests they will manipulate, deceive, and exploit others to achieve their goals. Machiavellianism is one of the traits in what is called the ‘Dark Triad’, the other two being narcissism and psychopathy.”
            So, is KP merely a narcissist or is he truly a psychopath?

      2. I think you meant to address this to Warren not me. I don’t care what GFA’s Christianity is or even whether they are Christian.[1] I care about their fruits here in this world including their honesty.[2]

        So how many poor people does the hospital take care of each year for free or at an affordable sliding scale? Does it matter whether they are Christian or not and if the latter whether they have to listen to evangelism to get treated.

        [1] Personally I quite admire Abdul Sattar Edhi
        [2] Warren probably has a somewhat different care. Also I will accept deception for a justified cause (lying to aid the escape of a slave is just). I don’t think GFA has made a case for this especially when it comes to deceiving their own donors.

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