In this 60 Minutes segment “Gay or Straight?” the mother of the young fraternal twins is a lesbian who was artificially inseminated to form a fatherless family. For some reason, I think I had heard this from some source that I cannot now find. The web story on the segment is available on the CBS News website. Dr. Michael Bailey disclosed this information today in response to a question from the audience at the Catholic University of America conference on sexual orientation. The 60 Minutes segment was shown to lead off the day.
While this fact alone does not invalidate potential biological explanations, it does call them into question as the only plausible explanation. In the interests of reporting the facts of the story, CBS News should have at least mentioned the context of the twins existence. Leaving aside this disclosure, ruling out parental influence in this situation flies in the face of what we know about how parents regard and treat fraternal twins. Parents often think of them and rate them on a variety of personality dimensions as more divergent than they actually are. It is entirely conceivable to me that a parent might take any temperamental difference and accentuate it (e.g., at 18 months of age, one twin’s desire for a Barbie while the other wanted a fire truck). This may not have happened routinely, of course I don’t know, but to rule it out requires the discounting of other well-established evidence.
Here’s a interesting digression on the constant argument of whether homosexuality is genetically or otherwise inherent.
Some studies indicate that the inclination to religious belief and practice is influenced more by genetics than parental influence and formation: http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/002666.html
It seems that the majority of people who attempt ex-gay “conversion” are motivated by a conflict between their religious beliefs and their sexual orientation. Perhaps these people are battling two biologically-determined drives that, due to the anti-homosexual position of most religions, cannot easily be reconciled.
I am not accusing her of abuse…
Of course you hadn’t, nor had I or anyone suggested as much.
Nor do I know if her status as a lesbian or as one who received artificial insemination predisposed her to be more permissive in the gender arena…
Previously you referenced parents [who] fostered patterns in children that were more of the parent’s wishes than the childs… and I have seen it reversed, much to the relief and well being of the child.
So, the earlier reference was to parental manipulation at the child’s expense, and the second to permissiveness.
Isn’t there a significant difference between redirection and permissiveness? Is there evidence to suggest that parental permissiveness about gender expression is harmful to a child? Or the prevalence of permissiveness as a precursor to abusive redirection?
Like you, I would have liked to see more details reported by CBS, such as the nature of professional support and guidance Danielle has gotten for her family, and more about how she has responded to both sons.
But CBS has also documented a bit of how Dr. Bailey was vetted for inclusion on the segment. I would expect that they spent time gathering background and history on Danielle’s family, also, hopefully including a look at whether her parenting has been based on getting reasonable amounts of professional counsel and support.
Typically, Warren, I appreciate your precision. This time, I’m not seeing it.
Maybe orientation is relevant, you suggest. Maybe non-straight parents are more permissive. Maybe the line to abusive redirection is easily crossed. Maybe CBS doesn’t vet the folks it covers effectively. Maybe all of these factors were active in this case.
At some point perhaps you can develop the topic of parental redirection from standpoint of where the evidence and your experience lie. What guidelines, resources, support are available to parents to ensure they don’t get off track? In your work, what approaches have been most effective with kids who are still gender variant after ruling out parental redirection as a contributing factor?
I’d be genuinely interested in your answers to those sorts of questions.
I asked on another post about the Hershberger triplet study (but got no reply). Since it’s a little hard to work out why the difference in the triplets, what you’ve said about the CBS story makes me wonder if Hershbergers study also has some detail that wasn’t recorded that might make all the difference.
Ivan.
I am not accusing her of abuse since I do not know anything more than anyone else does. Nor do I know if her status as a lesbian or as one who received artificial insemination predisposed her to be more permissive in the gender arena than another parent might have been. I do not know if the presence of a father would have mattered. However, I do not think these items irrelevant as Michael Bailey implied by assessing the woman’s actions as being irrelevant. Truth is, no one knows and since this is the case, I do not think the CBS segment reports the situation as it is but rather selectively reports it (spins?) in order to reinforce previously believed ideas. As much as I respect Dr. Bailey’s scientific work, I do think they should have interviewed scientists and social scientists who could have raised questions about the conclusions. Given the dizzying number of exceptions int the segment and in the research to what would be expected if homosexuality had a purely and directly genetic or hormonal origin, the conclusion should have been – we don’t know as yet what causes same sex attraction but it appears that both nature and nurture are involved.
….aghhhh, I meant
parentalchild abuse, of course.…given my experience, could I believe that the feminine twin arrived at his current state via maternal direction? Yes, I do. I have seen it and I have seen it reversed, much to the relief and well being of the child.
The life of David Reimer also bears witness to the harm that comes from parents and/or purported experts setting arbitrary expectations of gender expression.
It sounds like you and I would agree that the situations you’ve experienced, and David Reimer’s, involved parental abuse.
But are you suggesting that being a lesbian was relevant to the 60 minutes piece because it predisposed Danielle to commit such abuse?
“Not sure why CBS News didn’t report it, knowing that many people would think it was relevant.”
I think as soon as it was mentioned the mother was a lesbian a lot of biases would kick in and many people would just assume that explained everything. The point they were making was that one child was developing one way while the other developing a different way. So unless there is some evidence that lebian mothers tend to favor one child over another, I don’t really see how it would do anything but play to the viewer’s biases.
Warren,
I don’t know the details so much other than that she wanted a gay son and decided that he was the one it was going to be. I don’t know the mother and haven’t grilled either of the brothers about it so I don’t know if it went beyond encouragement of artistic efforts or a more general wishfulness on her part.
Interestingly, the ‘gay’ one is married (to an amazingly beautiful woman) and the ‘straight’ one is still sowing his wild oats. Both are sure of their own sexuality, have many close gay friends as well as straight friends, and are very comfortable in gay settings.
This is only a sample of one and certainly not useful for drawing any sort of conclusion. But it is kinda amusing and somewhat relevant.
I’m sure CBS left it out for a specific reason (you would think it was *highly* relevant), and I don’t mean they just didn’t find a good enough reason to put it in, but a good reason to leave it out. Of course, I cannot prove this. I am only guessing.
Ivan.
But why did he want the Barbie in the first place — If it was the mother, what did she do that created that scenario, and how can it show up so early at 18 months old?
Ivan.
Ivan – The segment said 18 months, he wanted a Barbie, which he received.
Ken – Not sure if it is relevant but not sure it isn’t. Not sure why CBS News didn’t report it, knowing that many people would think it was relevant.
Leave it to Boo to cut right to the heart of the issue. For those who are uninformed about the evils of tofu (soy), you must not be keeping up with the latest scientific research…
Obviously she was feeding one of the twins nothing but tofu.
Why is the fact that the mother is a lesbian relevant in this case?
Dr Throckmorton,
How could one twin arrive at his feminine state through the mother, and at what age would femininity start to show.
Ivan.
TImothy: Are you serious? If so, how did she do it?
I know of one parent who tried redirecting their child’s orientation. She tried to raise her sons (my friends) – two fraternal twins – for one to be gay and one straight. It was a failure. Both men are straight.
I would call it re-directing. Parents do it all the time, at least some do. I do not know what else she did, if anything, to encourage feminine behavior in the one son, maybe nothing. I do know it happens and have seen it many times clinically. Having worked in protective services, Head Start, the juvenile justice system, and child therapy, I have seen situations where the parents fostered patterns in children that were more of the parent’s wishes than the childs. In other words, given my experience, could I believe that the feminine twin arrived at his current state via maternal direction? Yes, I do. I have seen it and I have seen it reversed, much to the relief and well being of the child.
As a parent who has watched my kids develop distinct interests and aptitudes, I think Danielle, the mother of the twins, did impact her 9-year-old twins.
To whatever extent she accepted and encouraged the development of the distinct interests of her sons, my only question is, why would she not?
The obvious reasons for intervention would be compulsive, self-harming, or age-inappropriate behavior.
Beyond that, I’m trying to come up with responsible reasons for discouraging or dissuading either sons’ interests, and I’m neither coming up with any, nor seeing why that absence of dissuasion would be the same as a cause.