Mars Hill Church – Page 61 – Warren Throckmorton

Mars Hill Church Member Speaks Out About Lost Trust

Michael Redfield is a current Mars Hill Church member. He recently posted a couple of lengthy comments on my blog which include his assessment of Mars Hill’s leaders, and their response to the recent crisis. They seem to express what many former and current members are saying to me. Redfield told me that he also posted these comments to the church feedback website.
His first comment about 6 days ago regarding the “Financial Challenges” page on the church website:

Below is my just posted member comments on the Mars Hill church site, this fully tipped me off the fence –
RE: “Financial Challenges” As a member for about seven years I have in the past been both thrilled and disturbed by several things related to my and my family’s experiences here in Shoreline. None has to date enraged me more than the arrogant, blame shifting, non-contrite attitude expressed in this page today. With all that has transpired to state essentially that the closings and staff cuts are because you “sheep” have failed to give enough is appalling. This on top of statements like giving is down due to “negative media attention” clearly show that the current leadership doesn’t get it and I will not be surprised if the whole Mars Hill Church meets its demise soon with such attitudes continuing. Where is a statement from the mysterious EE stating that “these cuts are a direct result of the mistakes we have made and are endeavoring to correct” or “in light of the current situation we are cutting our salaries’ by X starting today”??? If it was in question before, there is no doubt – you leaders have now totally lost my trust. As a former Elder there, today I now also understand what I could not before – why God saw fit to deny Esperance Baptist Church’s facility to Mars Hill Church. It is so sad but understandable with these attitudes that the lampstand is being withdrawn.

A couple of days later, Redfield posted the following comment in response to the note from pastor Alex Ghioni:

Dear Mars Hill elders,
Forgive me if after all the ill hearted recent missteps and outright blunders that I don’t embrace the long overdue humility with immediate trust. I sent a message expressing my extreme disappointment yesterday based on the original “Financial Challenges” post. As is the pattern, I received no Mars Hill reply nor do I expect to get one. However when I posted those comments on Pathos site (instrumental in exposing many of our issues and without the likes of we may have continued in for who knows how long?), I received almost instant support and replies.
The pastoral spirit in the update and today’s post “Going Forward” are steps in the right direction, and I hope not too late to save this church. Questions and answers I am sure will be asked and answered must include: When will the crisis management, spin, and self protection end? Have you been grooming submissive clones for leadership and removing the others? What are EE salaries and concealed expenditures? What were the Global Fund, Jesus Festival, book royalties, etc., monies true and actual amounts and were the uses proper and legal? Were disqualifying sins committed? Is lying one of those? How can so many pastor/elders leave without explanation or thankful sendoffs?
Obviously many things must be addressed. Included we must eliminate any “non-compete” clauses – (we are first and foremost commanded and led by Jesus not Mars Hill Church). We must re-establish real biblical leadership including bylaws. Provide real procedures where member questions will be asked and answered not just deemed divisive.
While I technically remain a member since my family and I have not landed permanently elsewhere yet, I like so many, have lost trust in leadership. Especially the EE, but increasingly so in our remaining local elders who either kept their heads in the sand, chose to implicitly ignore issues that many less informed members like myself began to notice some time ago. Or worse, they out of self preservation, disregarded God’s promptings that as leaders they should address. For the most part the more courageous ones found or were shown the door.
Better to have never given reason for lost trust but failing that it will take much longer to regain it. Therefore I do also take issue with not hashing out issues in social media. How and why is that increasingly taking place? In MH redemption group the biblical mandate was emphasized to live in the light. When I sought answers from leaders to some of the issues that are decimating MH church today I was politely told the leaders were aware, to check my own heart, and not to be divisive. When issues perpetuate that leaders fail to address privately or publicly, leaving quietly fails to honor the heart God gives some of us. The MH Church doors seem closed to exposing hurtful wrongs, cover ups and silence were the norm, so people like me feel led to seek justice. The internet, although prone to abuse, provides that opportunity.
God is great and does not blink an miss things, He has an uncanny way of fulfilling Romans 8:28. My job is to follow him and I fear you leaders would still be managing crisis in your closets without the unwelcome light shining by the internet. Here’s praying the elders of MH will match their talk to live in His light. That’s it for now.

Does it sound like Michael would like more transparency?

Someone Tell Matt Rogers That the Investigation of Mark Driscoll Isn't Over

Craig Welch of the Seattle Times has an lengthy article on Mars Hill Church that provides a nice summary of the events since November, 2013. In his reporting, Welch got an interview with Matt Rogers, newly tapped chair of the Mars Hill Board of Advisors and Accountability. Even though Rogers and the BOAA passed off the investigation of Driscoll’s charges to the recently created Board of Elders, Rogers seems to know the facts about Driscoll. He told Welch:

“The hard part is that some of what’s out there is true, and he’s owned it and apologized for it and is trying to correct it, and some is not,” said Mars Hill Pastor Matt Rogers, who chairs the church accountability board examining accusations against their leader.

“If someone went through and dragged out every example of where I’d been short with my wife, or rude to a co-worker or done something stupid, and trickled that out week after week after week for months, you would have no respect for me, either.”

As I understand it, the investigation of charges against Mark Driscoll is just getting underway. However, I’m not sure I understand why the Board of Elders need to interview those picky elders, since Mr. Rogers already has the situation figured out. Seems like it would have been better public relations to at least seem like he was waiting on the results of the investigation to determine what is true and what is not.

The article I described above is on the Seattle Times front page today:

Mars Hill Church Member: 12 Steps to Rebuild Trust with Members

These days I interact with many current and former Mars Hill Church members. Often these current and former members express their aspirations for Mars Hill and wish that change would take place. Many of them are ambivalent about the church; they enjoy the relationships there and often believe the teaching is helpful to their lives, but they also are exasperated with the financial problems, emphasis on the Driscoll brand and lack of transparency from the leaders. They often believe big business somehow invaded their church and not for the betterment of the ministry. Some have rejected the church due to doctrinal reasons, but others believe the church should survive if trust could be reestablished with members.
The following letter was written by a current Mars Hill Church member. For a variety of reasons, including concerns about retaliation, this person did not want to be named in publication. However, I know the person and decided to publish this because the recommendations give expression to the many conversations I have had with current, on the fence, and former Mars Hill members. Many of them, such as this person, believe they are fighting for their church when they speak out.

“Dear Pastor Mark: Grow A Pair.”
(Or 12 Steps You Can Take To Rebuild Trust With Your Mars Hill Church Members)
Dear Pastor Mark,
Campuses closing, staff laid off. Front page headlines in the Seattle Times (for the wrong reasons). Elders quitting. Community groups down in attendance every week. Giving way down. Attendance overall way down. Hope for Mars Hill members is at an all time low.
Kind of a mess, agreed?
How about we put a stop to all this?
I am writing as no one special; not a pastor or elder, just an average Mars Hill member who has finally reached the breaking point. Over the past 9 months I’ve spoken directly with 40+ members and heard second hand about the thoughts of dozens more. We are not the folks who protested, or casual attendees; we are or have been official Mars Hill members. Some of us have now left Mars Hill; others are hanging on by a thread. After that many conversations, some common sense ideas begin to emerge, which I will share here. Of course not all members will agree with what I have to say here, but enough will that it’s worth the effort to speak up.
Those of us in average Mars Hill member land have waited for months, thinking “surely the Mars Hill Executive Elders will see what we all see”, but as each day passes, it seems clear that something is broken…you just aren’t getting it.
So let me lay it out clearly: in a nutshell, this is about trust. Executive elders, you once had our trust. Now, we’re just not sure if you deserve it or not.
So in a spirit that wants Mars Hill to move past all the insanity as quickly as possible, not dwell on the negative, and rebuild that trust, here are “12 Steps You Can Take To Rebuild Trust With Your Mars Hill Members”:
1. Fire the PR firm. Churches need to tell the truth, not spin it. Please tell us that members aren’t paying for the PR firm?
2. Hire an independent CPA firm. They should be experienced with churches/non profits; have them thoroughly audit Mars Hill financial records for the past 5 years. Then publish their findings in plain English so we can all read them. Forget about the ECFA endorsement; that doesn’t seem to provide much real accountability. At this point, we don’t know what to believe about the money; however there’s enough funny sounding stuff to make us feel pretty uncomfortable and not be very excited to give more money. Time to put all speculation to rest and just lay out the facts to us.
3. Let Sutton Turner go. Paul Tripp seems to think that you and he are not a great combination and that he may be in over his head. Sutton should be thanked and allowed to move on to another job gracefully.
4. Scrap the current governance system. Come up with a new governance system; pretty obvious to everyone but you that this one ain’t working.
5. Report All Progress Through The Patheos Blog. You’ve made us all daily readers of the Patheos blog. Why? Because we feel ‘spun’ when we read much of the Mars Hill official stuff. Patheos may not be 100% Mars Hill friendly; however it does seem to give us more of the straight scoop on what’s going on than the official Mars Hill information channels.
6. Report monthly on the progress with the 21 former pastors/elders on Patheos. It appears that you have an independent arbitrator handling the process with the 21 former pastors/elders, which is great. Now have each of the 21 report back directly through Patheos as each case is resolved. We just want to hear it directly in their own words that “things are fixed”. We want to see progress.
7. Give up your current 6 week “stepping down” review process. Most of us average members don’t really think this review process is that independent, even the newly announced BoE (Board of Elders). Both the BOAA and the BoE are hand picked boards judging those that picked them. What happens to those who disagree in this process? Of the nine men who signed the now infamous letter, eight are gone. Eight very good men. It’s tough to trust a process where dissenters seem to just disappear. Time is too precious; stop this process so we can focus on real solutions.
8. Tell us what the Executive Elders earn. We all saw the outside of your house on KOMO TV news recently Pastor Mark. Million dollar house KOMO said, which was new information to many of us. Looking at your million dollar home, it does raise questions in our minds. You are telling us to contribute more since giving is down. That’s fine; however first show us the money trail, including all EE salaries, book deals, everything. No hiding money in special trusts or backdoor channels. Complete transparency.
9. Show us a current up to date Mars Hill balance sheet. We want to know what assets Mars Hill owns and what it owes. People are being let go and campuses closed to live inside budget. Fine. You are asking us to give more, fine. But if we have assets that can be tapped into or sold, we would like to know what they are. Sources on the internet say that Mars Hill owns real estate valued at over $10 million. If you want shared sacrifice, we need to understand the full picture of what we have to work with. Publish this on the Patheos blog for all to see; if we are walking in the light, what do we have to be afraid of?
10. Make Pastor Dave Bruskas lead/preaching pastor of the church for the near future. Make him the interim lead pastor and preaching pastor, if he’ll accept the job (he would be subject of course to the new governance system).
11. Hire Paul Tripp. Let him set up a process to fix the ministry culture at Mars Hill. When Mars Hill sent us the email recently saying how angry the elders were that the 9 pastors’
letter was leaked, it kind of missed the point that we all saw plain as day: Paul Tripp thinks our church is the sickest he has ever seen and we are hung up on how the letter got leaked? Doesn’t that kind of prove Tripp’s point a bit? Don’t we all just want the truth here? Paul Tripp needs to have a secure role in partnership with a new elder board of some type to do what he and they think needs to be done, and then report back to us about progress independently.
12. Voluntarily Step Down Pastor Mark. For as long as Paul Tripp and whatever new elder board that is created think you need to. You don’t get to decide your fate at Mars Hill, they do. In your own Pastor Mark like terms, “time to grow a pair”. You’ve said you want to be at Mars Hill the rest of your life; now prove it. Have the stones to voluntarily step down now and submit to Paul Tripp and a new elder governance system so you have the time to get your own internal house in order. We don’t know what’s wrong with you Pastor Mark, but you and the Executive Elders seem to be the only ones who are not seeing the obvious: you need some help. No more hiding behind the skirt of self appointed internal review boards and governance rules you wrote yourself. No more PR firms. No more videos. No more explanations about how detractors are anonymous or blaming ‘negative media attention’ for our woes. We’ve had enough of that; it sounds like unmanly whining.
Pastor Mark, we don’t hate you; we LOVE you. It’s no shame that you need some help; we all do. You have helped us. This church has been our HOME. We love the people here; they are our FRIENDS. Our lives have been TRANSFORMED by Mars Hill. Much good ministry is happening even today at Mars Hill in spite of this mess. We have hope for the future of Mars Hill. Good people are still here and if this gets turned around, many people will return. We can forgive. We want Mars Hill to get back on track. Make us proud to
be Mars Hill members again.
You have taught us, correctly, that it’s all about Jesus. It feels that for some time now, it’s been too much about Mars Hill. Let’s repent of that and get back on track. Trust with us that Jesus will lead a reborn Mars Hill to a new season of Kingdom fruitfulness. “Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith. Who for the joy set before him, endured the cross. Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as sons. “Our fathers disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, in order that we may share in his holiness. 11 No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it. 12 Therefore, strengthen your feeble arms and weak knees.” Hebrews 12:2, 7, 10-12
We know you like Braveheart Pastor Mark; here is a quote from the movie to consider:
“Men don’t follow titles, they follow courage.”
Forget your title Pastor Mark; show us your courage. With love and hope,
Some Mars Hill Members

Mars Hill Church Board of Elders Investigate Charges Against Mark Driscoll

On Monday, the newly formed Mars Hill Church Board of Elders posted a message on the Mars Hill website written by Mars Hill Sammamish lead pastor Alex Ghioni. Ghioni had posted another version September 5 on The City (also posted on Reddit).
The versions are slightly different with perhaps the most interesting difference being the source of the charge for the Board of Elders. Last week to his congregation, Ghioni said the executive elders were responsible:

The current version says that the Board of Advisors and Accountability established the BOEs.

I don’t know what to make of this change, and perhaps Ghioni was confused about who established the BOE. However, Mark Dunford in his resignation explanation letter stated that the executive elders constructed the BOE:

This, after the Executive Elders (of which he is one) added three additional members to the board that would adjudicate his charges and having created/restored the Board of Elders to investigate those charges. I want to be clear that the elders themselves are not involved with selecting who would serve on those boards. Again, it was the EE who made those decisions.

By bylaw, both the BOAA and EEs have the power to establish ad hoc committees. So does it matter who selected the BOEs?

Yes, I believe it does. Dunford’s assertion that the EEs chose the investigation committee, if correct, is important. If those who are to examine charges were chosen by their fellow elders, then those selected have a greater likelihood of being representative of the sentiment of the Full Council of Elders (including at the time, those nine elders who called on Mark Driscoll to enter an elder directed restoration process). It seems more likely that all voices and views would be heard if all 50-60 of the Mars Hill elders were involved in selecting the committee to examine the charges. However, according to Dunford (as well as other insiders I have spoken with) and Ghioni’s first communication, Mark Driscoll, Sutton Turner and Dave Bruskas selected the group who are charged with investigating Driscoll. This does not sound like a process marked by objectivity.

Furthermore, according to Article 12 of the bylaws, the BOAA’s independent members are the ones who are supposed to investigate charges against Mark Driscoll, not an ad hoc committee.

This article was written solely to address charges against Mark Driscoll. In it, the board of overseers (independent members of the BOAA – Michael Van Skaik, Larry Osborne, Matt Rogers, Jon Phelps) “shall be responsible for establishing its procedures, for conducting the investigation and rendering a decision.” However, according to Alex Ghioni’s communication, the BOEs will conduct the investigation.

In his September 5 communication, Ghioni indicates that the BOE will investigate and then present their findings to the board of overseers. In the September 8 web posting, Ghioni/BOEs expand the description:

Elder Transitions – The BoE will receive, investigate, report and make recommendations to the BoAA on any charges brought against an elder in the church. They will also arbitrate in situations where the charges brought against an elder are contested. Very importantly, you should know the BoAA has approved a significant change where charges against an Executive Elder will be first investigated by the Board of Elders, followed by a decision from the independent members of the BoAA. This affords increased accountability of the Executive Elders with the rest of the eldership. I believe it is important for you to know this was a change that Pastor Mark, Pastor Dave and Pastor Sutton initiated themselves as a sign of mutual submission and accountability.

I really don’t understand how it helps establish accountability to learn that Mark Driscoll and his executive elder colleagues wanted a group of hand picked subordinates to examine the charges.
It appears to me another problem exists for this process. Given that the BOAA are responsible to investigate the charges, bylaw change should be required to allow them to pass this duty off to another committee. However, a quick check of the bylaws posted on the Mars Hill governance page shows no such change. The Going Forward documents seems to clean up the earlier document posted by Ghioni but it is not clear at all that the process is operating in accord with the bylaws of the organization. Given the admitted lack of transparency at Mars Hill, there is reason to question what is really happening behind the scenes. In both accounts, it appears clear that Mark Driscoll and his fellow executive elders have chosen a group of subordinates to investigate the charges against him. This will be at least the second time the BOAA has had charges against Mark Driscoll presented to them which they have not personally investigated.
In the second communication on the Mars Hill website, Ghioni anticipates some of these concerns:

Some have questioned my, and other BoE members, impartiality in conducting this investigation. I want you to know that I and the other board members know that we will stand before the Lord and give an account for our service to His church. Ultimately His opinion of how we conducted ourselves in faithfulness to his word will be are our guide (1 Timothy 5:19-20, Matthew 18:15-17, Proverbs 18:17, Deuteronomy 17:8-9).

This of course remains to be seen. All one can do is observe the process and communications about the process to the present. According to these communications (which have changed in the space of four days), the executive elders asked for a committee of subordinates to examine charges against Mark Driscoll. The EEs, either with or without input from the rest of the BOAA and no vote of the Full Council of Elders, chose pastors who are subordinates to be on the BOE. In contrast to the bylaws requirement that the BOAA investigate the charges, the BOE are currently investigating the charges and will report their findings to the independent members of the BOAA. The BOAA, which includes two people who dismissed charges after calling no witnesses the last time charges were lodged, a sitting volunteer elder and the most generous donor in Mars Hill’s history, will then decide the verdict.
If Mark Driscoll wants to come back as lead pastor, I like his odds “Going Forward.”

The Statement of Former Mars Hill Church Pastor Ryan Welsh

Ryan Welsh is one of the nine pastors who called on Mark Driscoll to submit to an elder directed restoration. He is also one of the pastors recently laid off. Today, he posted a brief statement on his public Facebook page which both expresses concern for the church and leaders while at the same time standing by the letter he signed and delivered on August 22. His statement:

My time at Mars Hill Church has come to an end. I want to briefly explain my feelings and convictions regarding Mars Hill and what’s next, as many have asked me to explain. I do not intend to add any fuel to the very hot fire that is burning in and around Mars Hill right now. So I will first share this:

1. I love Mars Hill Church
2. I love the visitors, members, deacons and elders at Mars Hill Church
3. I love and deeply care for Mark Driscoll, Dave Bruskas and Sutton Turner
4. I believe in the vision and mission of Mars Hill Church
5. I praise Jesus that He has used Mars Hill Church to bring, literally, thousands of people to salvation.
6. I pray for Mars Hill Church to be healthy once again
7. I hope and pray that Mark Driscoll has 30+ years of preaching ministry ahead of him
8. I believe that Jesus is still on His throne and that He remains not only sovereign, but also good
9. I feel blessed that I was given the opportunity to serve alongside some great and godly men and women over the past two years

Do I have concerns? Of course I do! Eight other elders and myself wrote and signed a letter of concern to the elders in late August. This letter presented in detail the convictions and concerns we held. I remain behind every word that we wrote in that letter. In the simplest form, the issues are surrounding repentance and church structure. I long for the day when the Holy Spirit’s conviction is what leads Mars Hill to repentance, rather than negative media coverage. I wait eagerly for the functional Trinity of Mars Hill Church to return to Father, Son, Holy Spirit from what seems to have become Father, Son, Holy Media.

I am a sinner. I am a horrible sinner. I am worse than any of you think I am. I, in no way, deserve God’s grace. I do not, therefore, share my concerns and convictions with Mars Hill to throw stones, but rather as a plea from one sinner to another, “to see our sin, to acknowledge our sin, to be transparent and to ask for forgiveness.”

Here is what I commit to do:
1. I will pray for the leaders of Mars Hill Church
2. I will pray for the people of Mars Hill Church
3. I will continue to repent of my sins and thank Jesus for His undeserved grace
4. I will continue to anxiously wait for Jesus to return and take us home

Many of you have asked me “what’s next?” My answer is very simple, I don’t know. Kate and I are praying and discussing and processing through some different possibilities right now. Please continue to pray for us and please continue to pray for Mars Hill Church.

Thanks,

Ryan Welsh