Lou Engle – Warren Throckmorton

Lou Engle supports criminalization of homosexuality

Not a big surprise given his recent statements, but Lou Engle made it (more or less) explicit in an interview with Sarah Posner at Religion Dispatches. Here is some of the money:

I [Posner] pressed him [Engle] about which penalties in the bill he didn’t support — and he did say that although he could see someone supporting the death penalty, he did not, and he did not support “hard labor” as punishment or the requirement that churches report LGBT people to the authorities. But when I asked him if he would support a bill with less harsh penalties, he added:

My main thing is to keep — is to not allow it to be legalized, so to speak, so then it just spreads through the legal system of the nation. So I’m not — I’m not making a statement as to what I think the penalties should be. It’s not my job to do that. I do think, I do think that these leaders are trying to make at least some kind of statement that you’re not just going to spread the agenda without some kind of restraint, a legal restraint and punishment. And I don’t know what the line is on those, but I can’t go that far as I understand that bill already said. [emphasis mine]

Engle also discusses his time with David Bahati and Julius Oyet and says he did not know the men well.

Engle claimed to not specifically remember meeting with Bahati and Oyet while in Kampala, telling me:

I don’t even remember their names, I guess who they were. I met with the leader of the — with the bishop of the Assemblies of God of the nation. I understood as one of his key guys, one of his key leaders. I did not support the bill. I talked to them, whoever these two guys were about the lessening of the penalties, we even challenged them to make provisions so that the church would not have to report anything of homosexuality being exposed. But we appreciated the two guys whose hearts were to bring forth a principled bill. [emphasis mine]

Engle told me he didn’t know who Bahati was, but when I told him he was the author of the bill, Engle added:

David Bahati may have been in a meeting that I had with the minister of ethics [Buturo]. But in that, I did not come out and support that bill. It was a meeting of about 25 people, and really was a prayer meeting and I was there to mobilize The Call and to pray with them.

No wonder Bahati and Oyet were happy.

I don’t understand why it is Lou Engle’s job to say that a “legal restraint” is needed for homosexuality but then it is not his job to say what the penalties should be. For those who favor recriminalization, the Ugandan supporters of the AHB have called you out. If it is not to be what they propose then what should it be? Scott Lively wants the state to require gays to go through state paid reorientation. Forget government health care but Uganda should pay for what would be, in essence, forced re-education programs. While Mr. Engle doesn’t offer that solution, he doesn’t offer anything else of substance. Among other places, the devil truly is in the details.

New York Times: First report from The Call Uganda

The New York Times has a report from Uganda on The Call Uganda and it does not sound promising.

Though not originally linked to the Ugandan legislation, Mr. Engle has long been a controversial figure in the United States for his views on homosexuality. During California’s referendum on same-sex marriage in 2008, he called homosexuality a “spirit of lawlessness.”

Before arriving here last week, Mr. Engle came out with a statement condemning the harsh penalties proposed in the bill, and said that his ministry could not support it. But when he took the stage late on Sunday afternoon, with Ugandan politicians and pastors looking on, he praised the country’s “courage” and “righteousness” in promoting the bill.

“NGOs, the U.N., Unicef, they are all coming in here and promoting an agenda,” Mr. Engle said, referring to nongovernmental organizations. “Today, America is losing its religious freedom. We are trying to restrain an agenda that is sweeping through the education system. Uganda has become ground zero.”

Lou Engle’s statement last week promised that the meeting in Kampala would not promote the bill:

Therefore TheCall, though continuing to be held in Uganda, will not promote this bill. In fact, we challenge the Church of Uganda to join with Christians around the world, to first examine our own moral failures, confess our own lack of love, and from that heart seek to establish true biblical standards, reflecting compassion for those struggling with same-sex attraction and equal justice for criminal offenses committed by heterosexuals or homosexuals. We believe this also reflects the heart and intent of the Christian leaders of Uganda.

I am aware of several sources who video taped the meeting and footage should be available sometime tomorrow. We will be able to see if the NYT report is accurate.

UPDATE: While I wait to review video of the event, I am going to post reports that come from Uganda about The Call Uganda. Another report, this time from a gay advocacy group, disputes The Call’s promise not to promote the Anti-Homosexuality Bill.

UGANDA – 03 May 2010: The commencement of Uganda’s prayer crusade yesterday, Sunday 2 May became a platform for religious leaders to cast out homosexuality once more, as a Western behavior, unAfrican and unbiblical.

Reports state that Pastor Mulinde of Trumpet Church called on other pastors present to come to the floor and pray for the nation of Uganda and in his prayer he condemned ‘evils in society’, committed by both homosexuals and heterosexuals.

He further emphasized that homosexuality is invading schools, families and the entire community and that it should be stopped.

Pastor Oyet Julius pointed out that Uganda is not for sale and that western civilization should not be allowed to take over the country.

“Members of parliament should not waste time by debating the Anti-Homosexuality Bill, they should quickly make it a law”, Oyet reportedly said.

He also called upon the cabinet, media, and business community to take a firm stand against homosexuality, also accusing homosexuals of paying school fees for young children while recruiting them to ‘the act’.

“Uganda cannot be intimidated by the Western World, we cannot put our dignity for sale” He said.

Pastor Lou Engle of The Call Ministries, a movement emphasizing prayer, worship and fasting for Spiritual breakthrough, said Western countries are using Ugandan NGO’s to promote homosexuality.

“We warned the youth against the act, when America allowed homosexuals freedom, it was the end of their Nation”, he said.

Meanwhile minister of Ethics and Intergrity Nsaba Buturo said that Uganda will not listen to the “nonsense” that homosexuality is a human rights issue.

Another report from someone who says he was there. This from Ugandan blogger, wamala dennis mawejje:

Lou engle on stage

He said he come to know Uganda through Apostle John Mulinde and knew nothing about the anti-homosexuality bill when he was being invited to Uganda hence he had a big debate on whether he should come to Uganda when there was international controversy over his trip.

They were under a lot of pressure and now they understand the kind of pressure Ugandan pastors are under.

He encouraged Ugandan pastors to stand firm because they have been chosen to lead the world in the fight against homosexuality and that they are standing for the truth.

The pastors don’t hate gays or spread hate but NGOs, UN, UNICEF, etc are promoting a homosexual agenda which is against the teachings of the church.

Uganda is a Christian nation and God loves everyone trapped in sin but marriage was established between Man and woman for the wellbeing of children.

The government of Uganda should uphold righteousness in this land.

America has lost the fight against the homosexual agenda and it has got into school. Parents are even losing power over their children as schools are teaching them that homosexuality is okay.

God is using Uganda as ground zero or a starting point for the rest of the world against homosexuality. God chose Uganda.

His son prayed for the sexually broken and then all youths below 30 years were called in front and blessed to be the front runners in the fight for morality in Uganda.

Lou Engel and crew went back to US immediately after his prayer.

Again, if accurate, this is very disturbing and would not match up with the commitment not to promote the bill. Ground zero? Reminds one of Scott Lively’s imagery of a nuclear bomb in Uganda.

Bob Hunter writes to say that 1,300 is a very small turnout for a rally of this nature in Uganda. The area in question will accommodate many times that number of people and this would have to be considered a bust.

Lou Engle issues statement regarding The Call Uganda and Anti-Homosexuality Bill

The Call Uganda will proceed as planned but Lou Engle just now released a statement which addresses the controversy over the upcoming assembly in Kampala. About Uganda’s Anti-Homosexuality Bill, Engle says, “…we do not see the character of Christ reflected in some key aspects of the language of the current bill.” The statement also addresses issues from the California Prop 8 campaign.

TheCall Uganda Press Release:

When TheCall was invited to come to Uganda our intent was to join with the leaders and the people of the great Ugandan Church in a gathering of fasting and prayer to confess our personal and national sins, to pray for God’s blessing on the nation, and for a great spiritual awakening among her youth. Personal and national repentance among Christians and prayer for spiritual awakening has been the core focus of TheCall since her inception.

TheCall had no knowledge at the time, of the Uganda homosexual bill and the controversy surrounding it. TheCall was unaware that our genuine intent to encourage the Ugandan church in prayer would thrust us into an international controversy.

TheCall, in 2008, mobilized thousands to pray and fast in California that marriage would be upheld between a man and a woman, believing this to be God’s design for the good of society, family, and children. TheCall belief and intent has never been about promoting hatred toward the homosexual community as a whole or towards individuals who identify as LGBT. We have always sought to offer a message of love and redemption to those with same-sex attractions, though at times our communication could have been expressed more effectively and graciously. In this aspect, we humbly seek your forgiveness if we had not communicated God’s righteousness and mercy adequately.

Now recently, TheCall has been wrongfully marked and vilified as an organization promoting hatred and violence against homosexuals and as one that supports the Uganda bill as currently written. To the contrary, we have never made a private or a public statement of support for that bill. Though we honor the courage and stand with the stated purpose of the many Church leaders in Uganda who are seeking to protect the traditional and biblical family foundations of the nation, we have serious concerns with the bill as presently written, especially in terms of some of the harsh penalties for certain homosexual behaviors or offenses. Sadly, many around the world are identifying TheCall with these aspects of the bill. Our concern is not to avoid the controversy the bill is stirring up, but to give an accurate representation of biblical values and the heart of Christ for all humanity. Though TheCall is not afraid to take a clear stand on biblical truth on matters of sexuality, we are deeply concerned that TheCall ministry would not wrongfully reflect the character of Christ, and we do not see the character of Christ reflected in some key aspects of the language of the current bill.

Therefore TheCall, though continuing to be held in Uganda, will not promote this bill. In fact, we challenge the Church of Uganda to join with Christians around the world, to first examine our own moral failures, confess our own lack of love, and from that heart seek to establish true biblical standards, reflecting compassion for those struggling with same-sex attraction and equal justice for criminal offenses committed by heterosexuals or homosexuals. We believe this also reflects the heart and intent of the Christian leaders of Uganda.

In releasing this statement, we want to take this opportunity to reiterate our deep love for the homosexual community and, as followers of Jesus, our commitment to oppose all hatred and violence directed towards that community.

For TheCall,

Lou Engle

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I appreciate the ideals expressed here in broad conceptual terms. However, to me, it seems that the application of those ideals would lead to a rejection of criminalization altogether. I do hope that the opposition to hatred and violence expressed here will be made clear to rally-goers on Sunday.

Update: This statement has been added to The Call website…