Who Said This About Vaccine Mandates?

Who said this?

The claim I am making here is very limited. If a person has decided personal convictions about the contagious disease he is carrying, the society in which he lives has an equal right to have decided and contrary convictions about that same contagious disease he has. And if there is an outbreak of such a disease, and the government quarantines everyone who is not vaccinated, requiring them to stay at home, the name for this is prudence, not tyranny.

Prudence, not tyranny.

Let’s see. COVID is a contagious disease. Correct me if I am wrong, but I have heard that there is an outbreak in the land of that contagious disease. Although government has not quarantined everyone who is not vaccinated, it sounds like this person would support such a dramatic move.

This view is quite bold and controversial. This person would likely be quite unwelcome at a MAGA rally. I know people who would be moved to red faced indignation at the mention of a government requirement for the unvaccinated to stay home.

Who is this bold contrarian? This defender of the greater and common good? This public health warrior?

I hope you are sitting down.

Doug Wilson.

Yes, that Doug Wilson. The 2015 Doug Wilson here.

Now in 2021 Wilson cracks on about fake vaccine identification cards, as in how and why to make them. Why would anyone do that? The 2015 Wilson said the government would be prudent to quaratine the vaccine refusers. Now, he advises people to “non-compliance with a clean conscious.” More directly, regarding the vaccine, he tells his readers: “First, if you are in a position to resist openly, do that.”

The 2015 Wilson told us that the government would be prudent to mandate a vaccine. The 2015 Wilson said:

Now I do have views on the efficacy of vaccines, but I want to address another element of this — the idea that even if they were effective, a requirement that everyone get vaccinated is necessarily statist and tyrannical. Why isn’t this a matter of personal choice and conviction? The answer is that it is not a matter of personal choice because everyone else is involved.

Now, Wilson counsels open resistance to what he calls a Biden power play.

But overarching everything was the obvious and naked nature of the power play that is being run. The Biden regime has already floated the idea of restricting interstate travel for the unvaccinated, and how would you do that without “papers please” checkpoints? Checkpoints everywhere a road passes from North Dakota into South Dakota. Don’t tell me I have a feverish imagination—I wasn’t the one who brought it up. Bans on interstate travel for the unvaccinated wasn’t my idea.

But something like it was his idea just six years ago. He said it would be prudent for the government to require the unvaccinated to stay at home. It seems to me that such a policy would prevent interstate travel. So about that feverish imagination…

Cynical me thinks that Rev. Wilson found himself an issue of real passion to conservative followers on the right and he is riding it. Maybe I didn’t read long enough to find out why he changed his mind, but the difference is striking. While we may not need a comprehensive quarantine, I think he may have been closer to correct the first time. Certainly, vaccine mandates for certain activities (work, school) have precedent and should not arouse the feverish response ginned up by the 2021 Wilson.



52 thoughts on “Who Said This About Vaccine Mandates?”

    1. Both Herman Cain and Darwin Award material.

      Herman Cain Awards on Reddit post the social media trails of vocal anti-vaxxers/anti-maskers/COVID-deniers who end up dying of COVID. You’d be amazed at how many of the social media trails there are in the thickest Christianese you’ve ever heard – Christian buzzword after Christian buzzword.

  1. What you have here Warren is a political opportunist. In one setting he says one thing because he thinks it will profit him, the setting changes and he contradicts himself because the only thing he believes in is the opportunities. Give a few years and let the setting change again and he will change again.

    But about vaccines, things have been totally crazy around me for about two weeks now. Someone who was a frequent commenter here started going nuts sending me and who knows how many others a bunch of COVID videos and articles with people who have been called quacks by the overall science community. They were focused on somethings that may or may not be true. But when they kept making the statement that the vaccines help no one now or ever in the future, I called them on it. And that just set them off and they lost it and would not stop sending me more and more cherry picked stuff. I asked them to respect my own opinion and stop trying to bully people or at least me. Nope. Completely off of their rocker and refused to respect my simple no. I had to move their name to my spam folder because that is what they had become. They did not care if they drove people away, they just had go on and on and on. Absolute obsession on their part.

    No sooner did that end then I wrote something very basic dealing with the fact that the one thing that is absolutely rock solid and can be seen all over the world with millions now vaccinated is that they do make a real difference. This is not a small study but hospitals in countries with high rates of vaccination. The proof is there, most of those in the beds are not vaccinated. Very few have been or at least were supposed to have been. A sample size of hundreds of millions of people! And where are all the nasty side effects that are supposed to be happening to millions? Non-existent.

    Then that set off events I already wrote about where I was suddenly thrown out of a group I have been meeting with for four years. Crazy stuff. Leaders I had good relationships with acting totally nuts. I have never seen the enemy, the Devil, put this many resources into anything. They want Christians to not get vaccinated because they want many of us to die or at least have unnecessary hospital stays. It is just that simple. About two months ago or three a friend of mine told me the same thing. He had seen something that claimed to be scientific that claimed they are useless. The same exact lie. Then late in July he brought COVID home from work. By the end of the month, his wife was sick and severe too. He was too sick himself to drive her to the hospital, so called an ambulance. Soon she was in ICU and is still there now. The weeks past and alone and unable to eat or drink or take his meds he just kept getting sicker. Soon he drove himself down to the hospital with pains in places he had never felt before. He waited 9 hours to go in, then waited more hours before a doctor came in. Told him his internal organs were starting to fail, so they gave him 1 IV and some pills he could not keep down and sent him home. A couple of days later his mind was filled with thoughts of suicide as the pain was even worse. Called a suicide hotline and they came and got him and found out his organs were down farther now to 70%. They made sure he got a room and got enough treatment to get him back from that, then checked him into a psyche ward for a week. Finally he started to get better until he was released to go back to work where this all started before.

    Then the CDC came out with a study from CA showing that those who were vaccinated were 5 X less likely to feel symptoms, and 29 times less likely to end up in the hospital. And across the study all of the vaccinated reported less severe symptoms, almost to 100%. The short of this is very likely all of that could have been prevented but he got caught in a lie being told by many Christian Celebrities.

    1. Everything you describe is a repeat of what happened 20 years ago when Bush/Cheney started their Wars and Occupations in Iraq and Afghanistan. Frothing-at-the-mouth U.S. Evangelicals insisted that no other options were available and were quick to attack and shun anyone who dared to suggest otherwise. Attempts to tell War-hungry Evangelicals about documented facts (Saddam had no WMDs) were met with temper tantrums, hysteria, and even more hatred and anger.

      These U.S. Evangelicals are Apostles of Lies and Death.

      1. When Bush got elected I knew that he was going to start a war with Iraq because Saddam had tried to kill his father. This is just basic human nature, not about the specific men or party. Not that I am into any arguing about those wars. My concern is about what is happening today that is deceptive in Christian orgs and what is abusive.

      2. There is also the Wilson-like flip-flop about Afghanistan among Republicans and many Christians. When Trump was campaigning on getting the U.S. out, and then when he set the final withdrawal in motion during his Presidency, these people had no complaints.

        But now Biden finishes the withdrawal that Trump started, and all of the sudden leaving Afghanistan becomes a grave mistake in their eyes (or at least in their hypocritical rhetoric).

        1. To be more accurate, they didn’t have an issue with withdrawing, but they did in the way it was overseen.

          1. While there have been some Republicans (and many Democrats) whose criticism was limited to how the U.S. conducted the last steps of the withdrawal, there are a huge number of others (mostly Republicans) who are expressing hypocritical outrage at our abandonment of Afghanistan, basically saying the failure to stay there and spend more years fighting was a grave moral failing.

            Those are the ones I was talking about. Kevin McCarthy is a prime example — of course you can as a general rule use him as an example any time the topic is hypocrisy and/or placing the Cult of Trump above one’s integrity.

          2. I admit I don’t care much, but all the criticism I encountered from all the conservative outlets I follow was along the lines of execution, not about pulling out in general. There’s been a large call for pulling out of Afghanistan on the Right for a very long time. I imagine if one follows Left-leaning media, the focus on voices on the Right would more be on the political outliers or those who used the situation to gain political points, but I can’t say for sure.

          3. then you haven’t been paying attention (or only seeing what you want to). When people complain about how Biden “let Afghan fall to the Taliban” or “wasted all the military effort (and lives) of the last 20 years” they are complaining that the military left Afghanistan, not how it was done.

          4. Not even close. That presumes that the only possible outcome of leaving Afghanistan was that it would fall, which is a false dichotomy. That obviously was not even Biden’s stated goal, nor the military establishment’s, but it was the outcome of Biden’s execution. There has been large support for the well-executed withdraw from Afghanistan on the Right for a long time. But again, if one receives their understanding of conservative media via progressive media, it’s doubtful that one would know that.

          5. Then enlighten us. HOW could any withdrawal have been done without having Afghanistan fall to the Taliban?

          6. I’m sorry. I would normally ask why you don’t know that there is a third actor in the situation (the Afghan government), but the way you are coming across is snarky and emotional. I’m not sure further conversation would be productive.

          7. And not to mention the Afghan military which the US was “training” for almost 20 years now. None of which answer my question:

            HOW could any withdrawal have been done without having Afghanistan fall to the Taliban?

    2. Just out, the CDC is reporting that 99% of hospitalizations and 99% of deaths have been in the unvaccinated. Also numbers regarding the more dangerous Delta strain: “between June 20 and July 17, the study noted that not fully vaccinated individuals are 4.5 times more likely to get infected (89.1 per 100,000 vs .19.4), 10 times more likely to be hospitalized (7.0 per 100,000 vs .7) and 11 times more likely to die (1.1 per 100,000 vs .1) from the delta variant.”

      1. A similar (though less dramatic in terms of hospitalizations) pattern on this side of the Pond … although the very high take-up (89% of those aged 16+ have now had at least one dose) and the domination of the Delta Variant (over 90% of current cases) in the UK does mean that a slightly larger number of vaccinated than unvaccinated persons are being hospitalized.

        In terms of preventing infection, it looks as if the current vaccines have an efficacy of around 60% against the Delta Variant. In England, 224 double-vaccinated patients died of COVID-19 between 1 February and 19 July (1); the total number of deaths for that same period is 18,057 (2). You do the Math(s)! (It comes to between 98 and 99 % not double-vaccinated, of course.)

        (1) https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n1960

        (2) https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/deaths

        My greatest concern right now is for those who wish to be vaccinated but cannot be (eg. those with severe autoimmune conditions), and I certainly favour some measures that apply to all of us (eg. wearing a mask on public transport unless prevented from doing so on medical grounds), and maybe some restrictions on non-essential activities (eg. visiting nightclubs) for those who have chosen not to be vaccinated.

        Of course, another group we need to think about is pregnant women – anti-vax ‘pro-lifers’ take note!

        1. On this side of the Atlantic there are many voices claiming to be “Christian” spreading paranoia about our federal government and the companies that manufacture the vaccines. It does not sound like this is true over there. If it is then you have a great advantage over us. Most of the believers I know here are older and have no plans of getting vaccinated which is just plain stupid at every level. I see them as taunting God at this point. And that is never a good idea. Our scriptures are full of examples where that ends badly.

          1. My feeling is that, over here. churches (including non-conformist and evangelical churches) have in the main been very responsible in terms of their rhetoric, thanking God for medical advances rather than playing politics with people’s lives.

            Many mosques too have opted to serve as vaccinations centres, promoting take-up among our Muslim compatriots.

          2. Glad to hear that someplace is actually sane. What is happening here, I have no doubt will lead to an actual bloody civil war over things that are nonsense. Violent sediments are building over peoples “right to refuse a lifesaving medical advancement.” Perhaps the craziest thing ever to get violent about? The fights over masks and other precautions are nuts too.

          3. The great mistake is to link Christianity with partisan politics, isn’t it? That always causes no end of trouble.

            There is, I think, a view among some (white) Americans that the USA is the Promised Land. This might come from a misreading of Scripture and bad theology (of which there is plenty floating around in some circles) generally. Of course, for the Christian, the Promised Land is not a geographical location on Earth! (Actually there are also, I suspect, many Jews who understand the Promised Land to be a spiritual entity.)

          4. The great mistake is to link Christianity with partisan politics, isn’t it? That always causes no end of trouble.

            There is, I think, a view among some (white) Americans that the USA is the Promised Land. This might come from a misreading of Scripture and bad theology (of which there is plenty floating around in some circles) generally. Of course, for the Christian, the Promised Land is not a geographical location on Earth! (Actually there are also, I suspect, many Jews who understand the Promised Land to be a spiritual entity.)

          5. We have failed to learn from all of the mistakes in Europe regarding politics. How many “Christian” kings took their armies out to battle some other “Christian” king since Christianity came to Europe? Perhaps after two world wars you are finally figuring something out we claim to but obviously have not. Jesus has His own politics and as you say, it is not of this World but of the next and final one.

          6. Tribalism lives on in some form wherever we are … Perhaps the particular problem at the moment is that, in the USA, the tribalism is linked to, or identified with, parts of Christianity.

            Christianity that fails to transcend culture, race, politics and the rest is useless; the constant rising, falling, twisting, turning and splitting of certain types of ‘Christianity’ lays bare this uselessness for anyone with a modicum of discernment.

          7. Tribalism lives on in some form wherever we are … Perhaps the particular problem at the moment is that, in the USA, the tribalism is linked to, or identified with, parts of Christianity.

            Christianity that fails to transcend culture, race, politics and the rest is useless; the constant rising, falling, twisting, turning and splitting of certain types of ‘Christianity’ lays bare this uselessness for anyone with a modicum of discernment.

          8. The center of Christianity is Jesus Christ, His cross which He told us we should pick up and carry and the disciples that are supposed to be trained to do everything that Jesus taught. When the center turns from this then you get all kinds of bizarre things being done by those who call themselves Christians but carry no cross and have no clue what discipleship is. And without that you have people ignorant of the most basic truths that Jesus taught. This is what I see. At the center there is only Jesus and no tribalism at all. “I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.”

          9. Christianity in the US cannot even transcend Fox News, never mind culture and politics. I’m convinced that had Fox been around during WWII, it would have made the case for Nazis.

          10. Christianity in the US is very diverse, I think. The biggest problem right now seems to be with those outfits that espouse ‘prosperity theology’ – meaning that those in charge ‘deserve’ to be prosperous! And, in a way, that’s understandable: many of these outfits are essentially businesses selling ideologies designed to make the CEO and Co rich.

        2. I suspect part of the reason you have a slightly lower unvaccinated (higher vaccinated) hospitalization/death rate is because you have a higher vaccination rate.

    3. Just before noon today this man I spoke of above had his wife die from COVID. You might want to lift him and the family up in prayer. I know I have and will.

      1. Regrettably it often takes a tragedy before some people will see they are wrong. And even sometimes not then.

  2. “Maybe I didn’t read long enough to find out why he changed his mind,”

    It was the cute wind-chimes, he saw that the wind was now blowing in a different direction.

    1. More evangelical celebrity hypocrisy. When Clinton was President, moral character in the officeholder was of PARAMOUNT importance to them. When Trump was President, they were all “God uses imperfect vessels”. It was all politics. Wilson’s flip (pun intended) is cut from the same cloth.

      1. There was quite a generational and even epochal gap between the two presidencies. Newt wasn’t exactly in political power any more in 2016 and don’t forget about the reverse: When Clinton was President, many on the Left downplayed what their future comrades would later condemn in Trump.

        1. Not me or anyone I know. I never had a problem with who Clinton had sex with, and I didn’t care about Trump either. Same with most of the people* I know who supported Clinton. They only brought up Stormy Daniels to point out the hypocrisy of those supporting Trump.

          *not counting politicians in this group because there views are pretty much just based on politics.

          1. There were many post #metoo who called out Clinton. That was my point about the hypocrisy piece. As far as the generational/epochal gap, there was a large Christian national identity that many in previous generations held. The shock of a president doing what Clinton did was genuine to many of them. But, per your point, I always had the impression many politicians seized on that sentiment for political reasons. Clinton was impeached over sexual mores. Trump over inflammatory tweets. All of it genuinely shocked the sensibilities of certain people. All of it seized upon by opportunistic politicians.

            I won’t be surprised if this thing goes full circle and in 20 years there’s a strongman elected from the Left who sends out the inflammatory equivalent of whatever Tweets are in 2041. The shock and the shrugs would most likely switch sides in such a scenario.

          2. “Clinton was impeached over sexual mores. Trump over inflammatory tweets.”

            no, Clinton was impeached due to charges of perjury.

            Trump was impeached (the 1st time) for abuse of power.

          3. Yep, those are the technical excuses used. It seems to me that a thinking person should never say, “Trump was impeached for …” and give the official line. He was impeached because of Twitter (both his tweets and the culture of outrage reactions to sound bites that site encourages). What’s that old line? If you hate someone, the way they hold their fork will drive you crazy, but if you love someone, they can spill their whole plate in your lap and you won’t care? Something like that.

          4. “Yep, those are the technical excuses used.”

            No, those were the legal reasons not excuses.

            Trump was impeached because he abused the power of his office to attempt to coerce a foreign leader for Trump’s personal political gain.

            You trying to minimize that by saying “because of Twitter” is a blatant misrepresentation of the facts.

          5. Interesting dodge, but I “see” exactly what you are saying. You are attempting to trivialize what Trump actually did.

          6. Not dodging. Forgive me if I’m misreading you, but here, too, you seem to be more interested in fighting than dialoguing. Like I said, I don’t care that much. I’m interested in thoughtful, reflective dialogue but not much else.

          7. If you are truly interested in “thoughtful, reflective dialogue” then why do you avoid my questions.

            Nor is trivializing what Trump actually did that got him impeached “thoughtful or reflective.”

            Are you trying to claim Trump didn’t abuse the power of the POTUS?

          8. I have thoughts on what you’re talking about but I’m not interested in a fight. I genuinely hope you have a good day and don’t waste too much of it with the cares of political tribes. God bless 🙂

          9. I see. you just want make misleading statements and not have to answer questions about them.

            You’ve picked the wrong blog if you think you can get away with saying what ever you want without being challenged.

            So much for your desire for “thoughtful, reflective dialogue”.

      1. Sorry, somehow had missed the link to the article, where Wilson nonchalantly mentions that the link between vaccines and autism is fraudulent(!!!!). But he does mention whooping cough, and there seems to have been a whooping cough outbreak in Idaho in 2015.

        1. What’s interesting about that is that the modern iteration of the anti-vaccine movement galvanized against the MMR (Measles, Mumps, Rubella) vaccine – he wasn’t just pro-vaccine, he was specifically in favour of the most controversial vaccine.

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