From the Ugandan Parliament website:
Parliament will soon debate Anti Homosexuality Bill – Speaker
Parliament will soon consider the Anti Homosexuality Bill, the Speaker of Parliament, Rt. Hon. Rebecca Kadaga, has said.
The Speaker, who was addressing a cross section of religious leaders upon her return from Canada where she attended the 127th Inter Parliamentary Union Assembly, said she would not be intimidated by any western power about her position on homosexuality.
“I will instruct the Chair of the Committee on Legal and Parliamentary Affairs to bring the report on the Anti Homosexuality Bill, so that we can consider it,” she said, Monday night.
The Anti Homosexuality Bill, a private Members draft law was moved by Hon. David Bahati during the Eighth Parliament. It seeks to establish a comprehensive legislation to protect the traditional family by prohibiting any form of sexual relations between people of the same sex; and the promotion or recognition of such sexual relations in public institutions as healthy, normal or an acceptable lifestyle, including in the public schools, through or with the support of any government entity in Uganda or any non- governmental organization inside or outside the country.
During the IPU Assembly held in Quebec, Canada, Hon. Kadaga protested assertions by the Canadian Foreign Minister that Uganda was intolerant to homosexuals.
“If homosexuality is a value for the people of Canada, they should not seek to force Uganda to embrace it. We are not a colony or a protectorate of Canada,” she said while in Canada.
Upon her return, the Speaker said that delegates from several other countries were happy with her statement but were afraid to speak out.
“I did not realize I was speaking for the entire world; Africa, the Arab world, Latin America and western countries; delegates told me ‘you were speaking for all of us.’ They had no courage to respond to (the Canadian Foreign Minister),” she said.
She added, “I will not accept to be intimidated or directed by any government in the world. If the price of aid is accepting homosexuality, we can reject the aid.”
The welcome ceremony included Parliament Commissioners, MPs, the former Minister of Ethics, Dr. James Nsaba Buturo, advocates against homosexuality and several students, who carried placards in support of the Speaker’s position and urging Parliament to urgently approve the Anti Homosexuality Bill.
Committee chair Tashobya was quoted in a newspaper article this week that he would have it to the floor before Christmas. Let’s remember that the order paper of Parliament will reflect the second reading of the bill. At that time a committee report will be heard and debate occur. It is highly likely that the third reading will happen that same day. If so, the bill could become law rapidly once introduced to the floor. The President can send it back to Parliament with suggestions but according to current practice and the Constitution, he cannot stop the bill from becoming law.
Well, well, well…. that is your opinion and that of your pro-gay sex co-travellers. Most Africans don’t believe that gayism should be protected at all. And that includes yours truly.
To prevent Bush Fires from spreading, you need to have the fire extinguisher and water ready. From a cultural and health-wise angle, gayism is a dangerous form of sexual deviance and we must start early before the Euro-American Gay Lobby captures the continent as it has done in the Western world and parts of Latin America. By the way, we don’t plan to “persecute” anybody, but PROSECUTIONS will be pursued in accordance with the law.
South Africa with all their western-style pro-gay laws maintains one of the highest HIV/AIDS infection rates in Africa and in the entire World—-double-digit infection rates (>20%). Infection rates in Uganda are way…way… way below those of pro-gay South Africa. I accept that man-woman sexual relations remains the main means of catching HIV in our nation. But we don’t need to complicate the matter by allowing gay sex practitioners to run riot with gay propaganda—distributing leaflets; holding press conferences; radio talk shows; gay parades—-all in a bid to help “youths confused with their sexuality”. We certainly don’t need the pro-gay UNESCO booklet sent to Ugandan schools without government approval. That action rightly got the UNESCO boss in Kampala expelled from the country.
I don’t know which planet you live on, but here on Earth, it is a well known fact that the most efficient vectors of HIV/AIDS are gay sex practitioners and intraveneous drug users who share needles. We know from America’s Centre For Diseases and Control (CDC) that gayism is the best means of guaranteeing that you will get AIDS. The chances of getting HIV from gay sex is several orders of magnitude much higher than in the normal man-woman sexual relations. So the best practice is to continue to permanently ban gay sex practitioners from bringing their high-risk blood anywhere near a Hospital Blood Bank.
Well….apart from the abominable sex crime of gayism, robbery, rape, murder and fraud (among others) have been with us for such a long time. This does not mean that these crimes were part of our culture. I have never denied that gay sex practitioners ever existed in Africa in pre-colonial times. Like I said in my earlier posted comment, these people were probably hidden away from sight because they knew that their sexual behaviour was unAfrican, degrading and inhuman.
What a nonsensical statement !!! So UAE and Malaysia that have anti-gay laws in their stature books are “backward nations”? Have you ever been to Dubai or Abu Dhabi? Have you ever been to Kuala-Lampur? Are you saying that decriminalizing gayism will suddenly transform African nations to rich nations? Was England a poor home nation of the UK prior to the 1967 decriminalization of gayism? Was West Germany poor prior to the 1977 decriminalization of sexual deviance? Is Singapore a backward nation for refusing to scrap its anti-gay laws (which it barely enforces like some African territories such as Ghana, Southern Nigeria and Botswana)? Are African nations WITHOUT any anti-gay laws such as DR Congo; Congo Republic; Gabon and Benin Republic much richer than African countries WITH anti-gay laws such as Cameroun, Mauritius, Botswana, Namibia, Zambia, etc?
Do you even read what you write? Are gay weddings conducted in the privacy of people’s bedrooms? Are gay adoptions peformed in the bedroom? Are half-naked gay sex practitioners gallivanting about the streets of Western capitals in celebration of the “PRIDE” in their bedrooms? Are those street parades happening within the privacy of people’s bedrooms? Are the promotion of gayism in press-conferences; leaflets; radio stations; etc; happening in the privacy of the bedroom?
Apparently Miss Kagada enjoyed today’s meeting enormously. More details to follow …
What a disgusting woman she is. Wow, attacking a minority group and getting patted on the back for it by scumbag Arab leaders. Nowonder Africa is failing. Always going backwards. And it all comes down to religion….
Reports suggest that Kadaga wants the Bill dealt with in the next two weeks.
(It would be a pity if several EU, and other, countries decide that they wish to exercise their legitimate right not to fund regimes engaged in terroristic activities against minorities. Ordinary Ugandans could lose out. But what happens next is probably up to ‘car-cash’ MPs now.)
“A vote for the Bill is a vote for HIV.”
I admit it’s a harsh thing to say, but said it must be.
I can’t find the UG Govt. report to which I referred earlier, but here’s an article from the Govt. newspaper, The New Vision: http://www.newvision.co.ug/news/629700-uganda-s-hiv-infection-rate-rises-to-6-7.html
It makes interesting, and perhaps rather surprising, reading. I just wonder if part of this is that the anti-gay rhetoric of the last five or so years (such rhetoric started seriously to ‘ramp up’ in about 2006 … there were loud calls, particularly from some Muslim extremists I seem to recall, for increased persecution in 2008 … Lively and Co. did their stuff in March 2009 … and the ‘full on’ Hang-the-Gays Bill broke cover in the autumn of that same year) is causing those in one-on-one heterosexual relationships to become more ‘complacent’.
Why can’t people just get over the homophobia thing? It’s 2012 ffs surely Uganda has more important issues like um, rampant poverty, corruption, AIDS…but no concentrate on what two people are doing in the privacy of their own bedroom. Retarded.
This is an interesting commentary: http://thinkafricapress.com/uganda/review-call-me-kuchu-lbgti-rights
I suspect that it is those who are married, but who have a ‘side dish’ (to use the local Ugandan colloquialism).
Ugandan culture, like so many ‘traditional’ cultures, puts a high premium on ‘outward propriety’ and politesse. We, by contrast, tend to ‘call a spade a spade’ (and this is generally true of us English these days – contrary to what many think!).
Back in late 2009, ‘Maazi’ made, on another blog, a very revealing remark that he has tried hard to deny making since: he said, “gays who keep their head down … will be left alone.” He probably meant it quite sincerely – his concern is not really what goes on in private, but is about ‘public perception’ and ‘presentation’. But there is HUGE problem: Bahati thinks quite differently to ‘Maazi’ – the former wants to ‘seek out and exterminate’, the latter wants (what is in UG terms) a ‘smooth, respectable surface’. To be fair to ‘Maazi’, he and Bahati are probably quite far apart; the PROBLEM is that it is BAHATI’s bill for which ‘Maazi’ tells us he will vote.
Does ‘Maazi’ understand the real meaning of Bahati’s bill? Probably – but he may be too frightened to admit it. If enough MPs realize what the Bill is really about, it could yet be stopped by the sovereign Parliament of Uganda itself.
Meanwhile, the pragmatic and clever Ugandan Premier has stolen Kadaga’s thunder with a very incisive political move over the ‘UN’ (although the UN now says it might not quite so ‘UN’ as we were first told!) report on Congo. He’s the one getting today’s cheers in Kampala.
But ‘Maazi’, dear, you simply cannot deny that the Bahati Bill was designed to ‘seek out and exterminate’ people who conduct their consensual relationships ‘behind closed doors’. It’s all there in black-and-white, and you have conspicuously failed to produce any alternative text that might make a reasonable person think otherwise.
The risk of contracting HIV is not tens of time (which is what ‘orders of magnitude’ means) bigger for same-sex relations. In any case, transmission risk depends on the precise activity and precautions taken, not on sexuality. (When a man and woman take part in a particular activity to which, in the past, you have been known to refer graphically and in capital letters, the risk is the same as when a man and man does; female-female sexual acts generally carry a very LOW risk of HIV transmission – rather lower than much heterosexual activity.) But I would refer back to what I said before: more homophobia is likely, if not certain, to mean more deceit, more secrecy, more hypocrisy … and more HIV.
A vote for the Bill is a vote for HIV.
How’s the new car, by the way?
‘Maazi’ won’t want to talk about MPs’ cars, and I don’t seriously expect him to do so.
Having picked through what he HAS said, I think we can provisionally conclude the following about the allegedly ‘revise’ Bill:-
1. Life imprisonment remains the proposed penalty for same-sex relations between consenting adults;
2. ‘Promoting homosexuality’ (probably very broadly defined) remains a criminal offence, with either life imprisonment, or maybe even death by hanging, for so-called ‘serial offenders’.
Just because gay people are not a distinct ethnic or racial group, why does that mean they don’t need protection or respect? In a world that treats gay people the way it has, surely they need all the protection and respect they can get.
Yes, gay ism as you seem to need to call it, is simply a deviation, nothing more. But why then do you need to persecute it? this deviation has existed for all time and so it will continue into the future. Persecuting it simply drives it underground – as it has always done – but it can never make it go away. Obviously, you believe that your way will deal effectively with the AIDS crisis. Sadly, I believe you are terribly mistaken. Frightening people into hiding their sexuality only discourages them from dealing as sensibly as possible with the reality if their lives: that increases risk rather than reducing it.
Current best practice on blood donation as I best understand it is that anyone who has multiple partners – gay or straight – should not donate. Anyone who no longer has multiple partners and has tested negative, after a sensible hiatus of a year or more, should once again be allowed to donate. Having such restriction – or even the blanket ban heretofore – was simply a sensible precaution based on the best information available. Part of the spread of AIDS in eastern and southern Africa – mostly by heterosexual contact – where it is at its most serious currently in the whole world, was contributed to by the large numbers of people who have more than one partner. Once the virus gets into such a network, it has been shown to spread rapidly
‘Maazi’ also has (very understandably, given the terrible damage colonialism does) an ‘anti-colonialist’ agenda. The irony here is that the current ‘anti-gay’ laws, which both and he and Bahati want to strengthen, are a colonial relic.
A friend of mine once brought up the subject of the Bill with (the Uganda-born) Archbishop John Sentamu. The archbishop, not without some justification, responded by saying something along the lines of “yes, it’s horrible, but, in a way, it was started by those who colonized what is now Uganda.” While we have to work in the ‘here and now’, we cannot forget the past.
@ Frank
Our posts ‘crossed over’ in the queue; apologies if I inadvertently duplicated your ideas.
‘Maazi’ and I have ‘exchanged pleasantries’ for the best part of three years, by the way – just in case you are concerned by my ‘feisty’ tone.
Is there is logical ‘way out’ from the corner into which people like ‘Maazi’ have driven themselves? In ‘legal’ terms, there are gaps in the UG rape laws, insofar as they are not ‘gender neutral’ (only a woman can be a victim of rape under Ugandan law); this is NOT the case with laws on child sexual abuse, which have, since the enactment of the UG Penal Code (Amendment) Act 2007, been comprehensive (I mention this because one ‘justifications’ that has been deceitfully peddled for the Bahati Bill is the alleged lack of laws to deal with the sexual abuse of boys by men). One ‘moderate’ UG politico I know took the view that the bits of the Bahati Bill that are genuinely about non-consensual sex could be dealt with through amendment of the rape laws, and the rest of the Bill dustbinned. (‘Maazi’s’ problem with such a solution would be that it would effectively mean the decriminalization of private consensual same-sex relations and, although he himself has in the past claimed that, once the Bill is law, “gays who keep their heads down … will be left alone” – a view not shared by David Bahati, who wants to ‘seek out and destroy’, this is apparently a ‘step too far’ for him.)
But, as you say, the real solution is not a legal one, but about attitudes and a proper understanding of history.
What really worries me (apart from the likely effects on gay Ugandans of the Bill itself) is that this all comes at a time of political instability in Uganda. When giving his judgement on the Ssempa-Kanyanja case, the magistrate made the point that the propagation of false information can ‘lead to genocide’. Politically, there is already something of a ‘fire’ in Kampala (‘succession politics’ – who will follow Museveni? and when?); things like this bill will just add petrol to the fire. Bahati might want to ‘get gays’ (http://lezgetreal.com/2010/08/ugandas-david-bahati-admits-he-wants-to-kill-every-last-gay-person/); others may be more interested in dealing with rivals.
Frank,
What you have read are fairy tales written by pro-gay Western authors about mythical pre-colonial gay-loving Africans. We have never tolerated gayism. Yes, the deviant behaviour was probably there hidden away in pre-colonial times, but it was never tolerated.
This is just standard propaganda we have come to expect from Euro-American Gay Lobby and their dummy African agents. Christianity frowns at polygamy, but it is widely practiced throughout Christianized parts of Africa. Gayism has always been reviled and the missionaries merely reinforced African revulsion towards gayism. Polygamy survived opprobrium from missionaries because it is an integral part of African culture. Gayism has never being part of our culture and we shall never accept it.
Gayism is simply a sexual deviation nothing more. Gay sex practitioners are not a distinct ethnic or racial group that need protection or respect. These are people who have a compulsive self-destructive habit just like kleptomaniacs, bestialists and necrophiliacs and they need help. There would never be a time when African people will look back and compare gayism with slavery. This will never happen because we never compare apples and biscuits neither do we compare sexual deviance to racism or ethnic-based oppression
Actually we are handling it right. Gayism is the most efficient way of spreading HIV/AIDS and introducing all manners of strange antibiotic resistant diseases. That is why many Western nations ban gay sex practitioners from contributing their risky blood to Hospital Blood Banks. The Ugandan strategy is to suppress and contain gayism properly among its isolated diehard practitioners and prevent any attempt to increase the number of sodomy practitioners through gay propaganda.
Wow !!! Maazi is the title of a nobleman in Nigeria? If your statement is factual then that is wonderful !! But I am sure that no African nobleman anywhere in the continent will support gayism
@ Carol
Certainly Bahati is very ‘fixated’ on particular interpretations of biblical texts. ‘Maazi’ is, I gather, a ‘lapsed’ Catholic (from what he has said in the past, it seems he found Christianity too ‘unAfrican’ for his taste), so probably does not base his anti-gay line on ‘the Bible’; it’s more about ‘nationalism’ and ‘pan-africanism’ for him.
A couple of [straight] Uganda friends I was talking with yesterday, seemed to think that a principal function of the Bahati Bill is to distract attention from things like corruption (when someone’s been caught with their hand in the till, the Bill is dusted down and waved around again). My view is that it is more serious (certainly this time): there is a considerable number of ‘true believers’, as well those who find the furore ‘convenient’.
Politics is so often not what it seems. I believe that another function of keeping the Bill in play is to have a bargaining chip with donor countries.
Well, you tried, Frank!
‘Maazi’, ‘Maazi’, show us your car,
show us your car,
show us your car;
‘Maazi’, ‘Maazi’, show us your car,
a yard above the pothole.
(Sorry about the defective scansion.)
I wonder, Maazi, have you ever asked yourself if there was the slightest possibility that you might be even slightly mistaken in your views? Have you ever wondered might there be another way of understanding this issue that seems to exercise you and so many of your countrymen the way it does? The abiding feeling I took away with me from my visit to Auschwitz some years ago was of man’s inhumanity to man – something I firmly believe is in all of us. From what I have read, though hardly exhaustively, there is little in pre-colonial African culture to substantiate the current homophobia in many of its countries. The influence of the colonisers, their laws and their introduced religions seem far more relevant to it. And while Africa, rightly, rejected colonialism, it seems to be determined to hold on to some of its worst legacies! The colonialists, of course, have moved on; but Africa has not. It rejects human rights for some people on the grounds of unacceptable western political influence; though it seems happy to welcome such western influence in the form of religious fundamentalism. Religion that teaches hatred towards anyone serves our world – and itself – very badly. Laws that reflect this hatred likewise. I firmly believe that the day is dawning, even in Africa and even in organised religion – including my own beloved misguided Catholic Church – when we will look back on our attitude to gay people the way we currently look back on slavery, wondering how our forebears could have gotten it so cruelly wrong. Current thinking on gayism, as you call it, in Uganda serves your country so terribly badly: in terms of your handling of the AIDS epidemic; in terms of your economic development [societies that embrace human difference in all its forms thrive in ways that others don’t]; in terms of your distraction from other important issues in your society. To put it bluntly, you are currently part of the problem; you could, though, be part of the solution. Our attitudes are the hardest thing for us to change. It us extremely difficult to dig ourselves out of corners we have worked so hard to get ourselves into. When we can, though, the rewards can be phenomenal. Uganda deserves better than what you are offering it right now: far better!! Maazi, in Nigerian Igbo culture, is the title of a nobleman: I challenge you, sir, to find a more constructive way of living up to it!
So…if we take this whole “problem” back to its origins…where did it start? With the Bible’s condemnation of homosexuality? It is quite clear that in the Old Testament, references relate to the purity code as concerns idolatry. In the NT the references also relate to idolatry, and in I Corinthians 6, Paul made a compound word, arsenokoitai, which appears in many Bible translations today as “homosexual,” by combining two Greek words, arsen, meaning “man,” and koitai, meaning “beds.” If Paul had been referring to ordinary, non-idolatrous sexual acts between men, he could have used the precise term paiderasste. In the early English translations (1400-1500) the universal understanding of the word arsenokoitai was “masturbator.” The word “homosexual” only appeared in its place in the Bible starting in 1946. Does the Bible ever refer to what we understand today to be those born with a different sexual orientation than the norm? Very very doubtful. That was not even a concept then. More likely it referred to pimps. So we are condemning people based on a half dozen mentions of (in English) the word “homosexual” and ignoring the dozens upon dozens of the Bible’s commands to love our neighbors, not to judge, to treat others as we would want to be treated, to let each man stand before God himself or herself–”But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God. For it is written, ‘As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to Me, and every tongue shall give praise to God.’ So then each one of us will give an account of himself to God. Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather determine this—not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother’s way.” Romans 14:10-14. The small number of gays who can’t fit into the majority lifestyle (heterosexual marriage) are not going to do anything but live their lives…they do not recruit, they are not trying to overthrow a government, they simply want the freedom to go about their own lives. A nation is far better off to model its government (and I include the US and any other country) after Romans 14:10-14, where each person is accountable to God for him/herself, and we just try not to trip each other up…live and let live. All this hatred in the name of God is playing right into the devil’s hands.
I gather that members of the ‘anti-gay caucus’, along with Ssempa and other clergy, is convening this morning (UK time) with a view to seeing how to get the Bill pushed through quickly.
That’s great news !!! Though, I feel that the funding was cut as a cost-savings exercise by UK and the cash-strapped Ireland rather than any altruistic concern for corruption. (After all, the corruption has been ongoing for decades, but the UK and Irish governments were happily pumping funds to the office of the Ugandan Prime Minister for the purposes of influence-peddling. Suddenly the funds have been stopped amidst the global credit crunch !!!)
.
Many of these NGOs that claim to help poor people also promote gayism. These NGOs should be wise enough to pull out voluntarily before they are kicked out when the new legislation is finally put in place
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No Ugandan–rich or poor—will miss NGOs that promote gayism even if they clamouflage themselves as charity organizations.
Breaking news: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2225443/Britain-Ireland-suspend-aid-Uganda-10m-funding-ends-Prime-Ministers-account.html
So it’s not over gays, it seems …
If the Bill does go through, it could precipitate the next phase of ‘disengagement’: the pulling out of at least some NGOs.
It’s very very sad. Ordinary Ugandans will suffer because of their politicians.
Prohibition doesn’t work, you know. Never has; never will. Gay people are not going to go away, no matter what legislation you impose – even if you kill ‘serial offenders’. Yes, many gay people will leave Uganda, as they already do. It won’t stop them from being born there.
And as for your mistakenly thinking I’m from another planet, noble Maazi, you yourself say that Ugandan AIDS is mostly in the heterosexual community. You are entitled to argue your case, but I honestly think it is disingenuous of you trying to have it both ways. Similarly, your argument about South Africa, in my view of it, smacks of the same selective thinking. Other far more liberal countries don’t have the same incidence of AIDS. I wonder do you think that if you stop persecuting your gay people you will then have more of them? [It won’t make the slightest difference, except for the people themselves.] Or is it that an oppressed minority that stops being oppressed and begins to take its proper place in society is what offends you? Maybe this blind spot is the source of your being so selective.
By the way, while I know that Africa’s economic woes are far more complex than whether or not gay people are oppressed, I honestly believe that when you wake up and allow them take their rightful place in society, your country will truly be better off – if for no other reason than the destructive costly distraction of persecuting them inhibits their making their fullest contribution to your economy. Scapegoating them, even as you currently do – never mind if this potential holocaust legislation gets implemented – already costs your economy dearly.
I want to thank you for engaging with me, even though our views are so diametrically opposed. I see nothing wrong with being gay: nothing! That does not mean that gay people can do no wrong: far from it. They are just as human, an inhuman, as heterosexuals. Loving another of the same sex is not part of it. Nor is committing themselves in relationship with one another. Homophobia does far more damage in the world than homosexuality ever could. I say that even in the context if AIDS. Homosexuality doesn’t cause AIDS; unsafe sex practices, gay or straight, don’t cause it either. Though they can certainly contribute to its transmission from infected persons.
Would the last gay man out of Uganda please turn off the lights? No need, the country is already in total darkness!!!
I actually see the extraordinary courage of the David Katos of this world as an enormous beacon of light for Uganda, for Africa and, indeed, for the whole world. May it burn brightly through your darkness until your enlightenment comes – if not in your lifetime, then in that of your children, or then of your children’s children. Have you ever contemplated that one of them at some point in the future will be gay?
Prohibition doesn’t work, you know. Never has; never will. Gay people are not going to go away, no matter what legislation you impose – even if you kill ‘serial offenders’. Yes, many gay people will leave Uganda, as they already do. It won’t stop them from being born there.
And as for your mistakenly thinking I’m from another planet, noble Maazi, you yourself say that Ugandan AIDS is mostly in the heterosexual community. You are entitled to argue your case, but I honestly think it is disingenuous of you trying to have it both ways. Similarly, your argument about South Africa, in my view of it, smacks of the same selective thinking. Other far more liberal countries don’t have the same incidence of AIDS. I wonder do you think that if you stop persecuting your gay people you will then have more of them? [It won’t make the slightest difference, except for the people themselves.] Or is it that an oppressed minority that stops being oppressed and begins to take its proper place in society is what offends you? Maybe this blind spot is the source of your being so selective.
By the way, while I know that Africa’s economic woes are far more complex than whether or not gay people are oppressed, I honestly believe that when you wake up and allow them take their rightful place in society, your country will truly be better off – if for no other reason than the destructive costly distraction of persecuting them inhibits their making their fullest contribution to your economy. Scapegoating them, even as you currently do – never mind if this potential holocaust legislation gets implemented – already costs your economy dearly.
I want to thank you for engaging with me, even though our views are so diametrically opposed. I see nothing wrong with being gay: nothing! That does not mean that gay people can do no wrong: far from it. They are just as human, an inhuman, as heterosexuals. Loving another of the same sex is not part of it. Nor is committing themselves in relationship with one another. Homophobia does far more damage in the world than homosexuality ever could. I say that even in the context if AIDS. Homosexuality doesn’t cause AIDS; unsafe sex practices, gay or straight, don’t cause it either. Though they can certainly contribute to its transmission from infected persons.
Would the last gay man out of Uganda please turn off the lights? No need, the country is already in total darkness!!!
I actually see the extraordinary courage of the David Katos of this world as an enormous beacon of light for Uganda, for Africa and, indeed, for the whole world. May it burn brightly through your darkness until your enlightenment comes – if not in your lifetime, then in that of your children, or then of your children’s children. Have you ever contemplated that one of them at some point in the future will be gay?
Here’s a report from one of the human rights activists opposing Bahati’s bill: http://sebaspace.wordpress.com/2012/11/09/a-freshly-rejuvenated-uganda-homophobic-lobby-goes-to-work/
And here are some UG MPs (did they come in their new cars?) engaging in reasoned discussion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=rBQ7MU-iObw
*Kadaga* – sorry (maybe a Miss Kagada was there too – I don’t know.)
Apparently Miss Kagada enjoyed today’s meeting enormously. More details to follow …
Here’s a report from one of the human rights activists opposing Bahati’s bill: http://sebaspace.wordpress.com/2012/11/09/a-freshly-rejuvenated-uganda-homophobic-lobby-goes-to-work/
Reports suggest that Kadaga wants the Bill dealt with in the next two weeks.
(It would be a pity if several EU, and other, countries decide that they wish to exercise their legitimate right not to fund regimes engaged in terroristic activities against minorities. Ordinary Ugandans could lose out. But what happens next is probably up to ‘car-cash’ MPs now.)
And here are some UG MPs (did they come in their new cars?) engaging in reasoned discussion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=rBQ7MU-iObw
*Kadaga* – sorry (maybe a Miss Kagada was there too – I don’t know.)
I gather that members of the ‘anti-gay caucus’, along with Ssempa and other clergy, is convening this morning (UK time) with a view to seeing how to get the Bill pushed through quickly.
But ‘Maazi’, dear, you simply cannot deny that the Bahati Bill was designed to ‘seek out and exterminate’ people who conduct their consensual relationships ‘behind closed doors’. It’s all there in black-and-white, and you have conspicuously failed to produce any alternative text that might make a reasonable person think otherwise.
The risk of contracting HIV is not tens of time (which is what ‘orders of magnitude’ means) bigger for same-sex relations. In any case, transmission risk depends on the precise activity and precautions taken, not on sexuality. (When a man and woman take part in a particular activity to which, in the past, you have been known to refer graphically and in capital letters, the risk is the same as when a man and man does; female-female sexual acts generally carry a very LOW risk of HIV transmission – rather lower than much heterosexual activity.) But I would refer back to what I said before: more homophobia is likely, if not certain, to mean more deceit, more secrecy, more hypocrisy … and more HIV.
A vote for the Bill is a vote for HIV.
How’s the new car, by the way?
Well, well, well…. that is your opinion and that of your pro-gay sex co-travellers. Most Africans don’t believe that gayism should be protected at all. And that includes yours truly.
To prevent Bush Fires from spreading, you need to have the fire extinguisher and water ready. From a cultural and health-wise angle, gayism is a dangerous form of sexual deviance and we must start early before the Euro-American Gay Lobby captures the continent as it has done in the Western world and parts of Latin America. By the way, we don’t plan to “persecute” anybody, but PROSECUTIONS will be pursued in accordance with the law.
South Africa with all their western-style pro-gay laws maintains one of the highest HIV/AIDS infection rates in Africa and in the entire World—-double-digit infection rates (>20%). Infection rates in Uganda are way…way… way below those of pro-gay South Africa. I accept that man-woman sexual relations remains the main means of catching HIV in our nation. But we don’t need to complicate the matter by allowing gay sex practitioners to run riot with gay propaganda—distributing leaflets; holding press conferences; radio talk shows; gay parades—-all in a bid to help “youths confused with their sexuality”. We certainly don’t need the pro-gay UNESCO booklet sent to Ugandan schools without government approval. That action rightly got the UNESCO boss in Kampala expelled from the country.
I don’t know which planet you live on, but here on Earth, it is a well known fact that the most efficient vectors of HIV/AIDS are gay sex practitioners and intraveneous drug users who share needles. We know from America’s Centre For Diseases and Control (CDC) that gayism is the best means of guaranteeing that you will get AIDS. The chances of getting HIV from gay sex is several orders of magnitude much higher than in the normal man-woman sexual relations. So the best practice is to continue to permanently ban gay sex practitioners from bringing their high-risk blood anywhere near a Hospital Blood Bank.
Well….apart from the abominable sex crime of gayism, robbery, rape, murder and fraud (among others) have been with us for such a long time. This does not mean that these crimes were part of our culture. I have never denied that gay sex practitioners ever existed in Africa in pre-colonial times. Like I said in my earlier posted comment, these people were probably hidden away from sight because they knew that their sexual behaviour was unAfrican, degrading and inhuman.
What a nonsensical statement !!! So UAE and Malaysia that have anti-gay laws in their stature books are “backward nations”? Have you ever been to Dubai or Abu Dhabi? Have you ever been to Kuala-Lampur? Are you saying that decriminalizing gayism will suddenly transform African nations to rich nations? Was England a poor home nation of the UK prior to the 1967 decriminalization of gayism? Was West Germany poor prior to the 1977 decriminalization of sexual deviance? Is Singapore a backward nation for refusing to scrap its anti-gay laws (which it barely enforces like some African territories such as Ghana, Southern Nigeria and Botswana)? Are African nations WITHOUT any anti-gay laws such as DR Congo; Congo Republic; Gabon and Benin Republic much richer than African countries WITH anti-gay laws such as Cameroun, Mauritius, Botswana, Namibia, Zambia, etc?
Do you even read what you write? Are gay weddings conducted in the privacy of people’s bedrooms? Are gay adoptions peformed in the bedroom? Are half-naked gay sex practitioners gallivanting about the streets of Western capitals in celebration of the “PRIDE” in their bedrooms? Are those street parades happening within the privacy of people’s bedrooms? Are the promotion of gayism in press-conferences; leaflets; radio stations; etc; happening in the privacy of the bedroom?
This is an interesting commentary: http://thinkafricapress.com/uganda/review-call-me-kuchu-lbgti-rights
Why can’t people just get over the homophobia thing? It’s 2012 ffs surely Uganda has more important issues like um, rampant poverty, corruption, AIDS…but no concentrate on what two people are doing in the privacy of their own bedroom. Retarded.
What a disgusting woman she is. Wow, attacking a minority group and getting patted on the back for it by scumbag Arab leaders. Nowonder Africa is failing. Always going backwards. And it all comes down to religion….
I suspect that it is those who are married, but who have a ‘side dish’ (to use the local Ugandan colloquialism).
Ugandan culture, like so many ‘traditional’ cultures, puts a high premium on ‘outward propriety’ and politesse. We, by contrast, tend to ‘call a spade a spade’ (and this is generally true of us English these days – contrary to what many think!).
Back in late 2009, ‘Maazi’ made, on another blog, a very revealing remark that he has tried hard to deny making since: he said, “gays who keep their head down … will be left alone.” He probably meant it quite sincerely – his concern is not really what goes on in private, but is about ‘public perception’ and ‘presentation’. But there is HUGE problem: Bahati thinks quite differently to ‘Maazi’ – the former wants to ‘seek out and exterminate’, the latter wants (what is in UG terms) a ‘smooth, respectable surface’. To be fair to ‘Maazi’, he and Bahati are probably quite far apart; the PROBLEM is that it is BAHATI’s bill for which ‘Maazi’ tells us he will vote.
Does ‘Maazi’ understand the real meaning of Bahati’s bill? Probably – but he may be too frightened to admit it. If enough MPs realize what the Bill is really about, it could yet be stopped by the sovereign Parliament of Uganda itself.
Meanwhile, the pragmatic and clever Ugandan Premier has stolen Kadaga’s thunder with a very incisive political move over the ‘UN’ (although the UN now says it might not quite so ‘UN’ as we were first told!) report on Congo. He’s the one getting today’s cheers in Kampala.
Those in one-on-one-on-one-on-one relationships…
Those in one-on-one-on-one-on-one relationships…
“A vote for the Bill is a vote for HIV.”
I admit it’s a harsh thing to say, but said it must be.
I can’t find the UG Govt. report to which I referred earlier, but here’s an article from the Govt. newspaper, The New Vision: http://www.newvision.co.ug/news/629700-uganda-s-hiv-infection-rate-rises-to-6-7.html
It makes interesting, and perhaps rather surprising, reading. I just wonder if part of this is that the anti-gay rhetoric of the last five or so years (such rhetoric started seriously to ‘ramp up’ in about 2006 … there were loud calls, particularly from some Muslim extremists I seem to recall, for increased persecution in 2008 … Lively and Co. did their stuff in March 2009 … and the ‘full on’ Hang-the-Gays Bill broke cover in the autumn of that same year) is causing those in one-on-one heterosexual relationships to become more ‘complacent’.
“a vote for the Bill is a vote for HIV.” This is reality. When we drive people underground, especially people who are likely to be infected (due to HIV having gotten into their network, not because HIV is a ‘gay’ disease) then infection will continue to spread, because anyone in their right mind would choose to die of AIDS rather than rot in prison for life and die of AIDS there. Zambia set up their 5 year HIV/AIDS plan without even acknowledging the existance of MSM. That’s what enforced secrecy will do. A free society allows everyone who is infected to seek treatment without penalty or questioning. So, yes. A vote for the bill is a vote to have HIV continue to spread.
‘Maazi’ won’t want to talk about MPs’ cars, and I don’t seriously expect him to do so.
Having picked through what he HAS said, I think we can provisionally conclude the following about the allegedly ‘revise’ Bill:-
1. Life imprisonment remains the proposed penalty for same-sex relations between consenting adults;
2. ‘Promoting homosexuality’ (probably very broadly defined) remains a criminal offence, with either life imprisonment, or maybe even death by hanging, for so-called ‘serial offenders’.
Even the Uganda Government has said recently that the principal risk factor behind the recent in HIV transmission is marital infidelity. (Sorry – can’t find the report, but have posted it at some point in the past.)
It is also my view is the homophobia is a significant risk factor. More homophobia = more deceit, more secrecy, more hypocrisy (all of which are probably HIV’s greatest allies). One might even say that “a vote for the Bill is a vote for HIV.”
‘Maazi’ has gone all shy abut his car: http://mobile.monitor.co.ug/Oped/-/691272/1332096/-/format/xhtml/-/14bobqs/-/index.html
“a vote for the Bill is a vote for HIV.” This is reality. When we drive people underground, especially people who are likely to be infected (due to HIV having gotten into their network, not because HIV is a ‘gay’ disease) then infection will continue to spread, because anyone in their right mind would choose to die of AIDS rather than rot in prison for life and die of AIDS there. Zambia set up their 5 year HIV/AIDS plan without even acknowledging the existance of MSM. That’s what enforced secrecy will do. A free society allows everyone who is infected to seek treatment without penalty or questioning. So, yes. A vote for the bill is a vote to have HIV continue to spread.
…to the other members of the network. Even for men who have sex with men, the spread has not been so rapid, most likely because of the casual nature of so many such contacts. The long-term dimension to so many eastern/southern African heterosexual multiple partner relationships makes them different in this regard. Current understanding of the spread of HIV is that it is at its most virulent when infection is new and after full-blown AIDS has developed. In between times, it seems to be less transmissible.
I don’t believe gay propaganda creates a single gay person – though, in time, it will create a few married gay people! 🙂 It ha,s however, created a better world for gay people to be able to be themselves. An imperfect/incomplete better world – but better nonetheless. I honestly believe that this world will continue to get better for gay people – though with many setbacks on the way. I believe this will happen even in Africa!! I believe it because of my belief that humanity cannot forever demonise its perceived foes – particularly when that foe cannot ever go away and that perception is anyway a very mistaken perception. We are all in thus together, imho. Despite appearances, it is not an us and them situation: it is an us and us situation. The challenge, noble Maazi, is to find our way through it – a way that will work, to the benefit of all.
Oh, and gayism has been a part of your culture: just because you have such a cruel view of such people doesn’t mean they weren’t there or that they didn’t seek ways of fulfilling their lives, no matter how imperfectly – just like the rest of people when you think about it. I cannot honestly believe that it is a good and wholesome use of your short time in this world to dedicate yourself to persecuting gay people rather than looking for ways that each of us – no matter what our differences – can contribute as fully as we possibly can to making our world a better place for all.
Even the Uganda Government has said recently that the principal risk factor behind the recent in HIV transmission is marital infidelity. (Sorry – can’t find the report, but have posted it at some point in the past.)
It is also my view is the homophobia is a significant risk factor. More homophobia = more deceit, more secrecy, more hypocrisy (all of which are probably HIV’s greatest allies). One might even say that “a vote for the Bill is a vote for HIV.”
‘Maazi’ has gone all shy abut his car: http://mobile.monitor.co.ug/Oped/-/691272/1332096/-/format/xhtml/-/14bobqs/-/index.html
Just because gay people are not a distinct ethnic or racial group, why does that mean they don’t need protection or respect? In a world that treats gay people the way it has, surely they need all the protection and respect they can get.
Yes, gay ism as you seem to need to call it, is simply a deviation, nothing more. But why then do you need to persecute it? this deviation has existed for all time and so it will continue into the future. Persecuting it simply drives it underground – as it has always done – but it can never make it go away. Obviously, you believe that your way will deal effectively with the AIDS crisis. Sadly, I believe you are terribly mistaken. Frightening people into hiding their sexuality only discourages them from dealing as sensibly as possible with the reality if their lives: that increases risk rather than reducing it.
Current best practice on blood donation as I best understand it is that anyone who has multiple partners – gay or straight – should not donate. Anyone who no longer has multiple partners and has tested negative, after a sensible hiatus of a year or more, should once again be allowed to donate. Having such restriction – or even the blanket ban heretofore – was simply a sensible precaution based on the best information available. Part of the spread of AIDS in eastern and southern Africa – mostly by heterosexual contact – where it is at its most serious currently in the whole world, was contributed to by the large numbers of people who have more than one partner. Once the virus gets into such a network, it has been shown to spread rapidly
Well, you tried, Frank!
‘Maazi’, ‘Maazi’, show us your car,
show us your car,
show us your car;
‘Maazi’, ‘Maazi’, show us your car,
a yard above the pothole.
(Sorry about the defective scansion.)
Frank,
What you have read are fairy tales written by pro-gay Western authors about mythical pre-colonial gay-loving Africans. We have never tolerated gayism. Yes, the deviant behaviour was probably there hidden away in pre-colonial times, but it was never tolerated.
This is just standard propaganda we have come to expect from Euro-American Gay Lobby and their dummy African agents. Christianity frowns at polygamy, but it is widely practiced throughout Christianized parts of Africa. Gayism has always been reviled and the missionaries merely reinforced African revulsion towards gayism. Polygamy survived opprobrium from missionaries because it is an integral part of African culture. Gayism has never being part of our culture and we shall never accept it.
Gayism is simply a sexual deviation nothing more. Gay sex practitioners are not a distinct ethnic or racial group that need protection or respect. These are people who have a compulsive self-destructive habit just like kleptomaniacs, bestialists and necrophiliacs and they need help. There would never be a time when African people will look back and compare gayism with slavery. This will never happen because we never compare apples and biscuits neither do we compare sexual deviance to racism or ethnic-based oppression
Actually we are handling it right. Gayism is the most efficient way of spreading HIV/AIDS and introducing all manners of strange antibiotic resistant diseases. That is why many Western nations ban gay sex practitioners from contributing their risky blood to Hospital Blood Banks. The Ugandan strategy is to suppress and contain gayism properly among its isolated diehard practitioners and prevent any attempt to increase the number of sodomy practitioners through gay propaganda.
Wow !!! Maazi is the title of a nobleman in Nigeria? If your statement is factual then that is wonderful !! But I am sure that no African nobleman anywhere in the continent will support gayism
@ Frank
Our posts ‘crossed over’ in the queue; apologies if I inadvertently duplicated your ideas.
‘Maazi’ and I have ‘exchanged pleasantries’ for the best part of three years, by the way – just in case you are concerned by my ‘feisty’ tone.
Is there is logical ‘way out’ from the corner into which people like ‘Maazi’ have driven themselves? In ‘legal’ terms, there are gaps in the UG rape laws, insofar as they are not ‘gender neutral’ (only a woman can be a victim of rape under Ugandan law); this is NOT the case with laws on child sexual abuse, which have, since the enactment of the UG Penal Code (Amendment) Act 2007, been comprehensive (I mention this because one ‘justifications’ that has been deceitfully peddled for the Bahati Bill is the alleged lack of laws to deal with the sexual abuse of boys by men). One ‘moderate’ UG politico I know took the view that the bits of the Bahati Bill that are genuinely about non-consensual sex could be dealt with through amendment of the rape laws, and the rest of the Bill dustbinned. (‘Maazi’s’ problem with such a solution would be that it would effectively mean the decriminalization of private consensual same-sex relations and, although he himself has in the past claimed that, once the Bill is law, “gays who keep their heads down … will be left alone” – a view not shared by David Bahati, who wants to ‘seek out and destroy’, this is apparently a ‘step too far’ for him.)
But, as you say, the real solution is not a legal one, but about attitudes and a proper understanding of history.
What really worries me (apart from the likely effects on gay Ugandans of the Bill itself) is that this all comes at a time of political instability in Uganda. When giving his judgement on the Ssempa-Kanyanja case, the magistrate made the point that the propagation of false information can ‘lead to genocide’. Politically, there is already something of a ‘fire’ in Kampala (‘succession politics’ – who will follow Museveni? and when?); things like this bill will just add petrol to the fire. Bahati might want to ‘get gays’ (http://lezgetreal.com/2010/08/ugandas-david-bahati-admits-he-wants-to-kill-every-last-gay-person/); others may be more interested in dealing with rivals.
…to the other members of the network. Even for men who have sex with men, the spread has not been so rapid, most likely because of the casual nature of so many such contacts. The long-term dimension to so many eastern/southern African heterosexual multiple partner relationships makes them different in this regard. Current understanding of the spread of HIV is that it is at its most virulent when infection is new and after full-blown AIDS has developed. In between times, it seems to be less transmissible.
I don’t believe gay propaganda creates a single gay person – though, in time, it will create a few married gay people! 🙂 It ha,s however, created a better world for gay people to be able to be themselves. An imperfect/incomplete better world – but better nonetheless. I honestly believe that this world will continue to get better for gay people – though with many setbacks on the way. I believe this will happen even in Africa!! I believe it because of my belief that humanity cannot forever demonise its perceived foes – particularly when that foe cannot ever go away and that perception is anyway a very mistaken perception. We are all in thus together, imho. Despite appearances, it is not an us and them situation: it is an us and us situation. The challenge, noble Maazi, is to find our way through it – a way that will work, to the benefit of all.
Oh, and gayism has been a part of your culture: just because you have such a cruel view of such people doesn’t mean they weren’t there or that they didn’t seek ways of fulfilling their lives, no matter how imperfectly – just like the rest of people when you think about it. I cannot honestly believe that it is a good and wholesome use of your short time in this world to dedicate yourself to persecuting gay people rather than looking for ways that each of us – no matter what our differences – can contribute as fully as we possibly can to making our world a better place for all.
‘Maazi’ also has (very understandably, given the terrible damage colonialism does) an ‘anti-colonialist’ agenda. The irony here is that the current ‘anti-gay’ laws, which both and he and Bahati want to strengthen, are a colonial relic.
A friend of mine once brought up the subject of the Bill with (the Uganda-born) Archbishop John Sentamu. The archbishop, not without some justification, responded by saying something along the lines of “yes, it’s horrible, but, in a way, it was started by those who colonized what is now Uganda.” While we have to work in the ‘here and now’, we cannot forget the past.
@ Carol
Certainly Bahati is very ‘fixated’ on particular interpretations of biblical texts. ‘Maazi’ is, I gather, a ‘lapsed’ Catholic (from what he has said in the past, it seems he found Christianity too ‘unAfrican’ for his taste), so probably does not base his anti-gay line on ‘the Bible’; it’s more about ‘nationalism’ and ‘pan-africanism’ for him.
A couple of [straight] Uganda friends I was talking with yesterday, seemed to think that a principal function of the Bahati Bill is to distract attention from things like corruption (when someone’s been caught with their hand in the till, the Bill is dusted down and waved around again). My view is that it is more serious (certainly this time): there is a considerable number of ‘true believers’, as well those who find the furore ‘convenient’.
Politics is so often not what it seems. I believe that another function of keeping the Bill in play is to have a bargaining chip with donor countries.
I wonder, Maazi, have you ever asked yourself if there was the slightest possibility that you might be even slightly mistaken in your views? Have you ever wondered might there be another way of understanding this issue that seems to exercise you and so many of your countrymen the way it does? The abiding feeling I took away with me from my visit to Auschwitz some years ago was of man’s inhumanity to man – something I firmly believe is in all of us. From what I have read, though hardly exhaustively, there is little in pre-colonial African culture to substantiate the current homophobia in many of its countries. The influence of the colonisers, their laws and their introduced religions seem far more relevant to it. And while Africa, rightly, rejected colonialism, it seems to be determined to hold on to some of its worst legacies! The colonialists, of course, have moved on; but Africa has not. It rejects human rights for some people on the grounds of unacceptable western political influence; though it seems happy to welcome such western influence in the form of religious fundamentalism. Religion that teaches hatred towards anyone serves our world – and itself – very badly. Laws that reflect this hatred likewise. I firmly believe that the day is dawning, even in Africa and even in organised religion – including my own beloved misguided Catholic Church – when we will look back on our attitude to gay people the way we currently look back on slavery, wondering how our forebears could have gotten it so cruelly wrong. Current thinking on gayism, as you call it, in Uganda serves your country so terribly badly: in terms of your handling of the AIDS epidemic; in terms of your economic development [societies that embrace human difference in all its forms thrive in ways that others don’t]; in terms of your distraction from other important issues in your society. To put it bluntly, you are currently part of the problem; you could, though, be part of the solution. Our attitudes are the hardest thing for us to change. It us extremely difficult to dig ourselves out of corners we have worked so hard to get ourselves into. When we can, though, the rewards can be phenomenal. Uganda deserves better than what you are offering it right now: far better!! Maazi, in Nigerian Igbo culture, is the title of a nobleman: I challenge you, sir, to find a more constructive way of living up to it!
So…if we take this whole “problem” back to its origins…where did it start? With the Bible’s condemnation of homosexuality? It is quite clear that in the Old Testament, references relate to the purity code as concerns idolatry. In the NT the references also relate to idolatry, and in I Corinthians 6, Paul made a compound word, arsenokoitai, which appears in many Bible translations today as “homosexual,” by combining two Greek words, arsen, meaning “man,” and koitai, meaning “beds.” If Paul had been referring to ordinary, non-idolatrous sexual acts between men, he could have used the precise term paiderasste. In the early English translations (1400-1500) the universal understanding of the word arsenokoitai was “masturbator.” The word “homosexual” only appeared in its place in the Bible starting in 1946. Does the Bible ever refer to what we understand today to be those born with a different sexual orientation than the norm? Very very doubtful. That was not even a concept then. More likely it referred to pimps. So we are condemning people based on a half dozen mentions of (in English) the word “homosexual” and ignoring the dozens upon dozens of the Bible’s commands to love our neighbors, not to judge, to treat others as we would want to be treated, to let each man stand before God himself or herself–“But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God. For it is written, ‘As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to Me, and every tongue shall give praise to God.’ So then each one of us will give an account of himself to God. Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather determine this—not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother’s way.” Romans 14:10-14. The small number of gays who can’t fit into the majority lifestyle (heterosexual marriage) are not going to do anything but live their lives…they do not recruit, they are not trying to overthrow a government, they simply want the freedom to go about their own lives. A nation is far better off to model its government (and I include the US and any other country) after Romans 14:10-14, where each person is accountable to God for him/herself, and we just try not to trip each other up…live and let live. All this hatred in the name of God is playing right into the devil’s hands.
I think ‘Maazi’ has gone out for a drive.
Should we assume that ‘Maazi’s’ comment about life imprisonment means that this remains the proposal for consenting adults? (I think we should, pending further clarification from him.) How much will the prison building programme cost, I wonder, and who will fund it?
I’m dying to know about car … and also whether he was one of the MPs who used the change to get something for his constituents.
I meant “… you’ve NEVER contradicted my suggestion …”
Apologies for the typo.
And since you’ve contradicted my suggestion that you are an MP, I feel bound to ask you what make of car you bought.
At least I base what I say on cited material. You simply make claims, but cannot back them up.
We know what the Bahati Bill says; we know what the Tash Committee proposed in May 2011. It’s all in black-and-white.
Your claims are just hot air; why not give us some ‘new’ text? Then we might take your huffing and puffing seriously.
You are quite the propagandist !! So life imprisonment is now called “slow death penalty” in the books of the Euro-American Gay Lobby
No she never made such a suggestion. You are the person making the suggestion.
Oh Yes !!! Whatever you say, we will indeed pass a revised version of the bill
Well, there is really no need for your faux apology. We Africans are used to being talked down to by the high and mighty superior European or North American people. We routinely take it on the chin (as the Brits would say)….
Gay Propaganda !!!
Not really. Nobody will be imprisoned for saying “gayism is great”, but if a person form organization to promote the “greatness of gayism” or propagandize gayism in the public space through radio, TV, newspapers, etc, such person must be made to face the law.
Many Ugandans (myself included) are relieved and glad that we do not live in the Western world where men can marry their fellow men—-that is offensive, degrading, abominable and inhuman as far as most Africans are concerned
Huff huff puff puff!
Now where’s your bill, ‘Maazi’? (You can’t blame us for not believing that it is really ever-so-benign if you don’t tell us the details!)
That’s great news !!! Though, I feel that the funding was cut as a cost-savings exercise by UK and the cash-strapped Ireland rather than any altruistic concern for corruption. (After all, the corruption has been ongoing for decades, but the UK and Irish governments were happily pumping funds to the office of the Ugandan Prime Minister for the purposes of influence-peddling. Suddenly the funds have been stopped amidst the global credit crunch !!!)
.
Many of these NGOs that claim to help poor people also promote gayism. These NGOs should be wise enough to pull out voluntarily before they are kicked out when the new legislation is finally put in place
.
No Ugandan–rich or poor—will miss NGOs that promote gayism even if they clamouflage themselves as charity organizations.
One more point that I think needs making …
Kadaga is suggesting that she wants to bring the Bill because of what happened in Canada. This is pure bunkum. She has always been rather keen on the Bill, and was just looking for an ‘excuse’. How do we know this? It’s simple: ‘Maazi NCO’ has made that clear to us on many occasions, saying in effect, “Whatever you do or say, we intend to pass this bill.”
If any of you reading my comments think I’m being a little ‘rude’ to our Uganda ‘friends’, then it’s because being polite will achieve nothing. We can be as polite as we like, but Bahati still wants his killing spree, or, if he can’t get that, all gays, and anyone who has a shred of sympathy for their plight, to be locked up. That’s what his bill is all about, and no amount of sophistry can disguise that.
Alleged Money-bags Mbabazi speaks out in favour of arch-rival Kadaga: http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/ugandan-mps-unite-support-reviving-anti-gay-bill021112
The report repeats the claim that the death penalty has been dropped, but this understanding may be based on that May 2011 ‘trickery’. Life imprisonment (a.k.a. a slow death penalty) is apparently still on the cards for consenting adults in private, and, assuming no further changes to the current published text, for those who repeatedly dare to suggest that gay bashing is not a good idea (such people would be deemed ‘serial offenders’ – simply for [repeatedly] expressing what their consciences told them).
Will this be the ‘new’ Uganda? Speak your mind twice, and spend the rest of your life in prison? I’m sure glad I don’t live there!
I think ‘Maazi’ has gone out for a drive.
Should we assume that ‘Maazi’s’ comment about life imprisonment means that this remains the proposal for consenting adults? (I think we should, pending further clarification from him.) How much will the prison building programme cost, I wonder, and who will fund it?
I’m dying to know about car … and also whether he was one of the MPs who used the change to get something for his constituents.
I meant “… you’ve NEVER contradicted my suggestion …”
Apologies for the typo.
And since you’ve contradicted my suggestion that you are an MP, I feel bound to ask you what make of car you bought.
At least I base what I say on cited material. You simply make claims, but cannot back them up.
We know what the Bahati Bill says; we know what the Tash Committee proposed in May 2011. It’s all in black-and-white.
Your claims are just hot air; why not give us some ‘new’ text? Then we might take your huffing and puffing seriously.
You are quite the propagandist !! So life imprisonment is now called “slow death penalty” in the books of the Euro-American Gay Lobby
No she never made such a suggestion. You are the person making the suggestion.
Oh Yes !!! Whatever you say, we will indeed pass a revised version of the bill
Well, there is really no need for your faux apology. We Africans are used to being talked down to by the high and mighty superior European or North American people. We routinely take it on the chin (as the Brits would say)….
Gay Propaganda !!!
Not really. Nobody will be imprisoned for saying “gayism is great”, but if a person form organization to promote the “greatness of gayism” or propagandize gayism in the public space through radio, TV, newspapers, etc, such person must be made to face the law.
Many Ugandans (myself included) are relieved and glad that we do not live in the Western world where men can marry their fellow men—-that is offensive, degrading, abominable and inhuman as far as most Africans are concerned
Huff huff puff puff!
Now where’s your bill, ‘Maazi’? (You can’t blame us for not believing that it is really ever-so-benign if you don’t tell us the details!)
One more point that I think needs making …
Kadaga is suggesting that she wants to bring the Bill because of what happened in Canada. This is pure bunkum. She has always been rather keen on the Bill, and was just looking for an ‘excuse’. How do we know this? It’s simple: ‘Maazi NCO’ has made that clear to us on many occasions, saying in effect, “Whatever you do or say, we intend to pass this bill.”
If any of you reading my comments think I’m being a little ‘rude’ to our Uganda ‘friends’, then it’s because being polite will achieve nothing. We can be as polite as we like, but Bahati still wants his killing spree, or, if he can’t get that, all gays, and anyone who has a shred of sympathy for their plight, to be locked up. That’s what his bill is all about, and no amount of sophistry can disguise that.
Alleged Money-bags Mbabazi speaks out in favour of arch-rival Kadaga: http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/ugandan-mps-unite-support-reviving-anti-gay-bill021112
The report repeats the claim that the death penalty has been dropped, but this understanding may be based on that May 2011 ‘trickery’. Life imprisonment (a.k.a. a slow death penalty) is apparently still on the cards for consenting adults in private, and, assuming no further changes to the current published text, for those who repeatedly dare to suggest that gay bashing is not a good idea (such people would be deemed ‘serial offenders’ – simply for [repeatedly] expressing what their consciences told them).
Will this be the ‘new’ Uganda? Speak your mind twice, and spend the rest of your life in prison? I’m sure glad I don’t live there!
By the way, most of the general budget support from the UK looks set to continue, though that could change if the Bill goes through …
Breaking news: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2225443/Britain-Ireland-suspend-aid-Uganda-10m-funding-ends-Prime-Ministers-account.html
So it’s not over gays, it seems …
If the Bill does go through, it could precipitate the next phase of ‘disengagement’: the pulling out of at least some NGOs.
It’s very very sad. Ordinary Ugandans will suffer because of their politicians.
By the way, most of the general budget support from the UK looks set to continue, though that could change if the Bill goes through …