Being all into American history lately, I have missed some things. Like the Family Research Council giving an award to a guy who loves to hear himself vilify those he claims to love. Well, actually I don’t know if he has claimed to love gays or not.
Exodus, sounding a prophetic tone, released this statement about the matter today:
Exodus International, the world’s largest Christian ministry helping individuals and families struggling with same sex attraction, denounced the Family Research Council’s choice of pastor Ron Baity to receive its highest pro-family honor, the 2012 Watchman Award.
Baity is on record saying, “gays act worse than maggots,” will make society “more filthy,” and God had an “urban renewal plan for Sodom and Gomorrah.” Baity also compares gay and lesbian people to murderers and says gay marriage is America’s “death warrant.” Baity is founding pastor of Winston-Salem’s Berean Baptist Church and head of the pro-marriage organization, Return America.
“It’s time conservative Christians who claim biblical principles such as loving their enemies and neighbors, and considering the welfare of others first, to speak swiftly and strongly against this type of action,” says Alan Chambers, president of Exodus International.
“For too long we’ve stayed silent and allowed our brothers and sisters to tip that hat toward angry and abusive rhetoric. It’s a terrible witness for Christ, and clear hypocrisy to a watching world.”
Exodus joins the Southern Baptist Convention in distancing itself from Baity along with pastors Sean Harris and Charles Worley from North Carolina. Chambers went to Tony Perkins first and expressed concern about this decision. Having received no response, Exodus felt compelled to release a statement.
When I do stuff like this, I get nasty emails, doubts about my Christianity and threats. I wonder what will happen with Exodus. In any case, I think they are right in their assessment of the situation.
I agree as well, but let’s be honest, this isn’t exactly going out on a limb. I don’t know of any time when Alan would not have been against such caustic comments. The one improvement here is that he is speaking up against Tony Perkins’ actions in promoting Baity. I think we can assume that FRC no longer provides any support for Exodus (they aren’t even answering Alan’s emails). So again, while it’s definitely a good move to make, it’s not exactly brave when they are joining in with the SBC — they are pretty good cover.
It is, however, an excellent move if you want to rebrand Exodus into a kinder, gentler organization with essentially the same core. Time will tell.
I read that Dr.Throckmorton has his Christianity doubted, and I’m not surprised. Honestly, I haven’t had a thorough Baptist upbringing like him. But life has made me understand some simple points.
First, there’s a borderline between loyal criticism of (or critical loyalty to) one’s church on one side and illoyalty on the other – he’s at the moment just dancing on that borderline, but will have to fall to one direction or the other.
Secondly, he’s obviously sensitive about angry speech from Christians but has no problem with angry speech from anti-Christians (like his sources, e.g. Right Wing Watch etc.) How come?
Aberrosexualist Sellout “Pastors”: STOP DISRESPECTING YOURSELVES
To abuse and exploit one’s position as a Christian leader to attack Christianity’s teaching and tradition on biologically aberrant, morally deviant sexual behavior is both cowardly and despicable. Christians are called to defend biologically correct, morally straight sexual behavior or orthosexuality, and oppose biologically aberrant, morally deviant sexual behavior, or aberrosexualism (homosexualism).
Since its inception, Christendom has always believed and taught that biologically aberrant, morally deviant sexual behavior or aberrosexualism is part of the Cult of Death, the cult founded on hatred towards the Creator God, His Law, and His Created Universe. Aberrosexualism is the extermination of the Future; it is the suicide of Humanity; it is a hate crime against Nature.
Those who propose otherwise suffer from Delusional Disorder, a psychiatric diagnosis denoting a psychotic mental disorder that is characterized by holding one or more non-bizarre delusions in the absence of any other significant psychopathology. Non-bizarre delusions are fixed beliefs that are certainly and definitely false, but that could possibly be plausible. To propose, much less believe, that aberrosexualism can somehow be acceptable or appropriate sexual behavior for any sane, rational person, be they Buddhist, Jewish, Muslim, Communist, atheist, agnostic, or Christian, is, in itself, a clear indicator of Delusional Disorder.
No self-respecting Christian, no self-respecting, fair-minded American, no self-respecting ethical human being can take seriously any talk about “respect” coming from individuals who show absolutely NO respect for Christ, NO respect for His millions of followers, NO respect for the ethical principles and moral values Christianity stands for, and, what is the saddest, NO respect for themselves!
Deal with it, partisans of the anti-social, pathological aberrosexualist ideology. Move on to another group willing to let you sodomize and victimize them and/or yourself. Fair-minded, right-thinking, loyal followers of Christ are not interested in your anti-Christian, deathly macabre ideology; in your vile ideologically-driven agenda; in your slick, disrespectful and deceptive propaganda, or in your hate, vitriol or bigotry towards those that refuse to compromise their moral values and ethical principles. Your attacks against Christianity, its teachings, and its followers place you on the wrong side of History. Your ideology was refuted and defeated by Christ on the Cross over two thousand years ago! Now go and deal with it.
Judy – What kind of doctorate do you have?
“Delusional Disorder, a psychiatric diagnosis denoting a psychotic mental disorder that is characterized by holding one or more non-bizarre delusions in the absence of any other significant psychopathology. Non-bizarre delusions are fixed beliefs that are certainly and definitely false, but that could possibly be plausible.”
Very well said – and very well exemplified.
Ah yes – homophobia beautifully described.
What would be your view on celibacy, Judy?
Another point, Pat: in my experience, I have found ‘critical non-christians’ more prepared to engage in dialogue than those who appear to believe that they have ‘got God sussed out’.
Well, Pat, I do take the line that it is entirely understandable for non-christians to criticize (sometimes harshly) the Church. But I do get very annoyed when Christians contradict what I and many other Christians regard as the core principles of Christ’s teaching by speaking or acting in a manner that promotes hatred, often on dishonest grounds (eg. the old “gays are all a threat to children” cr*p), against others. For me, it is behaviour that brings the Church into disrepute, and I suspect that Warren feels similarly on that point.
I agree with Richard Willmer that the two instances cited above are kinda “admissions of defeat”. Which reminds to me the great saying that “causa victrix diis placuit – sed victa Catoni”.
The pagan gods are at the side of the victorious. The soul of men overcoming the pagan gods (and turning themselves to the lamb) are at the side of the defeated.
I agree as well, but let’s be honest, this isn’t exactly going out on a limb. I don’t know of any time when Alan would not have been against such caustic comments. The one improvement here is that he is speaking up against Tony Perkins’ actions in promoting Baity. I think we can assume that FRC no longer provides any support for Exodus (they aren’t even answering Alan’s emails). So again, while it’s definitely a good move to make, it’s not exactly brave when they are joining in with the SBC — they are pretty good cover.
It is, however, an excellent move if you want to rebrand Exodus into a kinder, gentler organization with essentially the same core. Time will tell.
I read that Dr.Throckmorton has his Christianity doubted, and I’m not surprised. Honestly, I haven’t had a thorough Baptist upbringing like him. But life has made me understand some simple points.
First, there’s a borderline between loyal criticism of (or critical loyalty to) one’s church on one side and illoyalty on the other – he’s at the moment just dancing on that borderline, but will have to fall to one direction or the other.
Secondly, he’s obviously sensitive about angry speech from Christians but has no problem with angry speech from anti-Christians (like his sources, e.g. Right Wing Watch etc.) How come?
Aberrosexualist Sellout “Pastors”: STOP DISRESPECTING YOURSELVES
To abuse and exploit one’s position as a Christian leader to attack Christianity’s teaching and tradition on biologically aberrant, morally deviant sexual behavior is both cowardly and despicable. Christians are called to defend biologically correct, morally straight sexual behavior or orthosexuality, and oppose biologically aberrant, morally deviant sexual behavior, or aberrosexualism (homosexualism).
Since its inception, Christendom has always believed and taught that biologically aberrant, morally deviant sexual behavior or aberrosexualism is part of the Cult of Death, the cult founded on hatred towards the Creator God, His Law, and His Created Universe. Aberrosexualism is the extermination of the Future; it is the suicide of Humanity; it is a hate crime against Nature.
Those who propose otherwise suffer from Delusional Disorder, a psychiatric diagnosis denoting a psychotic mental disorder that is characterized by holding one or more non-bizarre delusions in the absence of any other significant psychopathology. Non-bizarre delusions are fixed beliefs that are certainly and definitely false, but that could possibly be plausible. To propose, much less believe, that aberrosexualism can somehow be acceptable or appropriate sexual behavior for any sane, rational person, be they Buddhist, Jewish, Muslim, Communist, atheist, agnostic, or Christian, is, in itself, a clear indicator of Delusional Disorder.
No self-respecting Christian, no self-respecting, fair-minded American, no self-respecting ethical human being can take seriously any talk about “respect” coming from individuals who show absolutely NO respect for Christ, NO respect for His millions of followers, NO respect for the ethical principles and moral values Christianity stands for, and, what is the saddest, NO respect for themselves!
Deal with it, partisans of the anti-social, pathological aberrosexualist ideology. Move on to another group willing to let you sodomize and victimize them and/or yourself. Fair-minded, right-thinking, loyal followers of Christ are not interested in your anti-Christian, deathly macabre ideology; in your vile ideologically-driven agenda; in your slick, disrespectful and deceptive propaganda, or in your hate, vitriol or bigotry towards those that refuse to compromise their moral values and ethical principles. Your attacks against Christianity, its teachings, and its followers place you on the wrong side of History. Your ideology was refuted and defeated by Christ on the Cross over two thousand years ago! Now go and deal with it.
Judy – What kind of doctorate do you have?
“Delusional Disorder, a psychiatric diagnosis denoting a psychotic mental disorder that is characterized by holding one or more non-bizarre delusions in the absence of any other significant psychopathology. Non-bizarre delusions are fixed beliefs that are certainly and definitely false, but that could possibly be plausible.”
Very well said – and very well exemplified.
Ah yes – homophobia beautifully described.
What would be your view on celibacy, Judy?
Another point, Pat: in my experience, I have found ‘critical non-christians’ more prepared to engage in dialogue than those who appear to believe that they have ‘got God sussed out’.
Well, Pat, I do take the line that it is entirely understandable for non-christians to criticize (sometimes harshly) the Church. But I do get very annoyed when Christians contradict what I and many other Christians regard as the core principles of Christ’s teaching by speaking or acting in a manner that promotes hatred, often on dishonest grounds (eg. the old “gays are all a threat to children” cr*p), against others. For me, it is behaviour that brings the Church into disrepute, and I suspect that Warren feels similarly on that point.
I agree with Richard Willmer that the two instances cited above are kinda “admissions of defeat”. Which reminds to me the great saying that “causa victrix diis placuit – sed victa Catoni”.
The pagan gods are at the side of the victorious. The soul of men overcoming the pagan gods (and turning themselves to the lamb) are at the side of the defeated.
I often wonder where such vitriol comes from, and remember the number of those caught with rent boys. I have seen enough cases where those that are most judge-mental are in reality themselves not dealing with their own sexuality variance. The Bible is very clear about being judge-mental!
I often wonder where such vitriol comes from, and remember the number of those caught with rent boys. I have seen enough cases where those that are most judge-mental are in reality themselves not dealing with their own sexuality variance. The Bible is very clear about being judge-mental!
Very good, Carol A Ranney!
However, I very much doubt such will happen to Baity’s pulpit, given that God doesn’t in fact operate in such ways (an arbitrary, petulant ‘ogre-in-the-sky’ has nothing in common with what happened as the Curtain of the Temple was ripped from top to bottom) … thank God!
(The blatant and oft repeated misinterpretation / misuse of the Sodom story – which clearly no bearing whatsoever on two people of the same-sex living together in a loving relationship – by the homophobic fraternity is breath-taking. One wonders sometimes if these people are able to read!)
Re. Ron Baity, the first sin of Sodom was inhospitality (Ezekiel 16:49ff), so any “urban renewal” fire and brimstone should land squarely on Ron Baity’s pulpit. Kudos to Exodus Intl.!
Very good, Carol A Ranney!
However, I very much doubt such will happen to Baity’s pulpit, given that God doesn’t in fact operate in such ways (an arbitrary, petulant ‘ogre-in-the-sky’ has nothing in common with what happened as the Curtain of the Temple was ripped from top to bottom) … thank God!
(The blatant and oft repeated misinterpretation / misuse of the Sodom story – which clearly no bearing whatsoever on two people of the same-sex living together in a loving relationship – by the homophobic fraternity is breath-taking. One wonders sometimes if these people are able to read!)
Re. Ron Baity, the first sin of Sodom was inhospitality (Ezekiel 16:49ff), so any “urban renewal” fire and brimstone should land squarely on Ron Baity’s pulpit. Kudos to Exodus Intl.!
Warren I have comments pending one is a duplicate, that didn’t post, probably maybe because I included a link to a website. I am letting you know because I know you have new software installed. I am not nagging!
@SGM: Powerful people within the SBC — most notably Richard Land, who has been the long-standing president of their Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission — have said horribly hateful and untruthful things. I would not expect any condemnations from their president or any other high-ranking official.
I commend Alan Chambers for making this statement.
Warren I have comments pending one is a duplicate, that didn’t post, probably maybe because I included a link to a website. I am letting you know because I know you have new software installed. I am not nagging!
@SGM: Powerful people within the SBC — most notably Richard Land, who has been the long-standing president of their Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission — have said horribly hateful and untruthful things. I would not expect any condemnations from their president or any other high-ranking official.
I commend Alan Chambers for making this statement.
But what Chambers has said here is ‘spot on’ – whatever one’s views on ‘homosexuality’. (The clause “who claim biblical principles …” is a telling and well-chosen one.)
Good for him. 🙂
@ SGM
On the two instances you cite:
Knapp of Kansas should also be challenged for being a complete ignoramus: a Christian position, still less God’s ‘opinion’, on the treatment of gay people should not be based on a rule made up by the leaders of Jewish community in exile in Babylon in the sixth century B.C.. (Of course, Israel today has no anti-gay laws at all, and polls point to a majority of Israelis favour the full recognition of same-sex marriages.)
And children singing songs about homos? Is that ‘worship’? And does it not raise some questions about ‘child protection’? Should small children be so cognisant of sexual politics? The use of small ‘child soldiers’ in ‘culture wars’ strikes me as dangerous and disgusting.
I suspect that, as opinion in the United States tips in favour of full equality under civil law for lesbians and gay men, there is panic in some quarters.
These deplorable scenes are perhaps symptoms of that panic … and might even be considered petulant and perverted ‘admissions of defeat’.
But what Chambers has said here is ‘spot on’ – whatever one’s views on ‘homosexuality’. (The clause “who claim biblical principles …” is a telling and well-chosen one.)
Good for him. 🙂
@ SGM
On the two instances you cite:
Knapp of Kansas should also be challenged for being a complete ignoramus: a Christian position, still less God’s ‘opinion’, on the treatment of gay people should not be based on a rule made up by the leaders of Jewish community in exile in Babylon in the sixth century B.C.. (Of course, Israel today has no anti-gay laws at all, and polls point to a majority of Israelis favour the full recognition of same-sex marriages.)
And children singing songs about homos? Is that ‘worship’? And does it not raise some questions about ‘child protection’? Should small children be so cognisant of sexual politics? The use of small ‘child soldiers’ in ‘culture wars’ strikes me as dangerous and disgusting.
I suspect that, as opinion in the United States tips in favour of full equality under civil law for lesbians and gay men, there is panic in some quarters.
These deplorable scenes are perhaps symptoms of that panic … and might even be considered petulant and perverted ‘admissions of defeat’.
Oh I just looked up that Church, New Hope Baptist Church in Seneca Kansas, they are Southern Baptists.
Did we ever see a renunciation from the President of the Southern Baptists on these Hate Sermons? I know Warren posted one from someone who works on gay issues for the organization, but I don’t recall if I read that the President of the Southern Baptists denounced Hate Sermons or not.
I wondered about that. I was wondering if you were not writing as much about Sexual Orientation because you had been receiving threats, even threats against your family and threats towards your employment, OR if you were just really focused on exposing David Barton’s lies and that was taking up most of your time. It’s nice to see this Exodus article, I was not aware of it until you posted it.
Yippie!!!
And in other News that sadly is not so great. Another Baptist Minister in Seneca Kansas Preached this last Sunday that “The Government should Kill all the Homosexuals. ”
http://www.goodasyou.org/good_as_you/2012/05/kansas-pastor-government-should-kill-gays.html
And another Church gave a standing ovation to a little four year old boy who went up on the alter and sang a little song, “Ain’t no Homos gonna Make It to Heaven”
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xr727u_children-singing-in-church-to-enthusiastic-audience-high-fives-that-s-my-boy_news
Children must be taught to Hate, they do not hate naturally.
So I was really happy to read that GOOD NEWS from Exodus.
Oh I just looked up that Church, New Hope Baptist Church in Seneca Kansas, they are Southern Baptists.
Did we ever see a renunciation from the President of the Southern Baptists on these Hate Sermons? I know Warren posted one from someone who works on gay issues for the organization, but I don’t recall if I read that the President of the Southern Baptists denounced Hate Sermons or not.
I wondered about that. I was wondering if you were not writing as much about Sexual Orientation because you had been receiving threats, even threats against your family and threats towards your employment, OR if you were just really focused on exposing David Barton’s lies and that was taking up most of your time. It’s nice to see this Exodus article, I was not aware of it until you posted it.
Yippie!!!
And in other News that sadly is not so great. Another Baptist Minister in Seneca Kansas Preached this last Sunday that “The Government should Kill all the Homosexuals. ”
http://www.goodasyou.org/good_as_you/2012/05/kansas-pastor-government-should-kill-gays.html
And another Church gave a standing ovation to a little four year old boy who went up on the alter and sang a little song, “Ain’t no Homos gonna Make It to Heaven”
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xr727u_children-singing-in-church-to-enthusiastic-audience-high-fives-that-s-my-boy_news
Children must be taught to Hate, they do not hate naturally.
So I was really happy to read that GOOD NEWS from Exodus.