Bill Leonard is James and Marilyn Dunn Professor of Church History and Baptist Studies at the School of Divinity, Wake Forest University. In a column yesterday, titled Baptist Shame, Leonard spoke out in condemnation against Charles Worley’s remarks about gay concentration camps.
He begins:
Tonight I am ashamed to be a Baptist. Born into Baptist “cradle role” in the First Baptist Church of Decatur, Texas, and baptized on profession of faith in that congregation when I was 8 years old, I’ve been a born-again Baptist for over five decades.
Leonard draws a historical parallel:
In 1980, a Baptist evangelist declared on national television that, “God Almighty does not hear the prayer of a Jew,” a remark that in many ways advanced this type of homiletical diatribe into the American public square.
E. Glenn Hinson, then my colleague at the Baptist seminary in Louisville and one of the most Christ-like human beings I have ever known, said of that statement, “Such is the stuff of which holocausts are made.”
Hinson’s statement sparked great controversy inside and outside the seminary. His words were true then, and perhaps even truer now. Such concentration-camp language is shameful, whether used in 1930s Europe or 2012 North Carolina.
I recommend the entire column.
Danny says:
May 25, 2012 at 6:44 pm
“In fact, it is Worley, not Bill Leonard, who is accurately reflecting Biblical values.’
No Danny, Worley isn’t. Different people interpret the bible differently, that is why there are so many different sects of christianity. While many of these groups believe that only their interpretation is the correct one, not all do. Further, your attempts to brand all “true” christians as being like Worley, only hightlight your own lack of understanding of christianity.
Warren if you’re interested The Christian Post has finally published something on it, http://www.christianpost.com/news/pastors-reject-sermon-on-how-to-get-rid-of-homosexuals-75380/
Bravo! More! More!
Hi Gerald,
Glad you could show up to clarify things for us .. So .. some questions for you..
Some churches ordain women into ministry .. some say that to do so is wrong .. Which is correct?
Some say the Christians should not celebrate Halloween .. Some don’t think its an issue … Which is correct?
Some churches say that women shouldnot wear jewelry .. Others say it doesn’ t matter. Which is correct?
Some believe that God preselects those woo will be saved (election). Others believe God extends to each of us the ability to choose to follow Jesus or not. Which is correct?
Some believe that the Catholic Church alone is the one true church. Others would give equal credibility to Protestant and Catholic churches. Still others reject the Catholic church. Which is correct?
Some churches believe baptism is essential to salvation. Other churches believe it is important but not essential. Which is correct?
Some churches allow for remarrige after divorce. Others do not. Which is correct?
Need I go on? All of these are issues of interpretation about which mainline churches do not agree. Its not that simple.
Blessings,
Dave
Gerald, even to say that scripture has a “plain sense” and that we should always follow that plain sense, is to offer a rule for interpreting scripture. Anytime we do more than read the words in the original language, we are interpreting.
Gerald, how is following the plain sense going for you, Gerald? Have you stoned any unruly children lately? Have you worn any clothes that have blends of more than one type of thread? And so on…
Hi Gerald,
Glad you could show up to clarify things for us .. So .. some questions for you..
Some churches ordain women into ministry .. some say that to do so is wrong .. Which is correct?
Some say the Christians should not celebrate Halloween .. Some don’t think its an issue … Which is correct?
Some churches say that women shouldnot wear jewelry .. Others say it doesn’ t matter. Which is correct?
Some believe that God preselects those woo will be saved (election). Others believe God extends to each of us the ability to choose to follow Jesus or not. Which is correct?
Some believe that the Catholic Church alone is the one true church. Others would give equal credibility to Protestant and Catholic churches. Still others reject the Catholic church. Which is correct?
Some churches believe baptism is essential to salvation. Other churches believe it is important but not essential. Which is correct?
Some churches allow for remarrige after divorce. Others do not. Which is correct?
Need I go on? All of these are issues of interpretation about which mainline churches do not agree. Its not that simple.
Blessings,
Dave
Gerald, even to say that scripture has a “plain sense” and that we should always follow that plain sense, is to offer a rule for interpreting scripture. Anytime we do more than read the words in the original language, we are interpreting.
Gerald, how is following the plain sense going for you, Gerald? Have you stoned any unruly children lately? Have you worn any clothes that have blends of more than one type of thread? And so on…
By the way here are the verses I recommend to those that seek to bash the word of GOD. Leviticus 18:22, Leviticus 20:13, Genesis 19:4-12. As for those that say Jesus didn’t speak out against it, Here is some more reading for you, Matthew 15:18-20, Mark 7:20-23, 1 Thes 4:3-8. We are all sinners that fall short of the kingdom of heaven without Jesus. BUT we have Jesus to bare all our sins so we still have a chance to be with him some day. We must turn from these sins to have them forgiven in true repentance. I don’t want to be the one who hears him says I never knew you.
I am so heart broken to say interpretation is of choice. It is of the choice of the one who wants it to say what it does not. The bible is very clear and is not meant to have interpretations. Look into the written word as a whole story all composed to set the stage of Christs last return to for-fill prophecy. Try to live life in his eyes not your own. I am sure you all remember the WWJD. To the ones that do not is is simply What would Jesus do. Come to know him so the word is what it is, not interpretation.
By the way here are the verses I recommend to those that seek to bash the word of GOD. Leviticus 18:22, Leviticus 20:13, Genesis 19:4-12. As for those that say Jesus didn’t speak out against it, Here is some more reading for you, Matthew 15:18-20, Mark 7:20-23, 1 Thes 4:3-8. We are all sinners that fall short of the kingdom of heaven without Jesus. BUT we have Jesus to bare all our sins so we still have a chance to be with him some day. We must turn from these sins to have them forgiven in true repentance. I don’t want to be the one who hears him says I never knew you.
I am so heart broken to say interpretation is of choice. It is of the choice of the one who wants it to say what it does not. The bible is very clear and is not meant to have interpretations. Look into the written word as a whole story all composed to set the stage of Christs last return to for-fill prophecy. Try to live life in his eyes not your own. I am sure you all remember the WWJD. To the ones that do not is is simply What would Jesus do. Come to know him so the word is what it is, not interpretation.
(That said, the ‘official’ position of the Southern Baptist Convention – the largest Baptist ‘umbrella organization – is one of pretty strident ‘disapproval’, although I’m not aware that the Convention itself actually advocates criminalizing consensual same-sex relationships. The position of the Baptist Union of Great Britain is a nuanced one: i.e. that same-sex couples “should not suffer discrimination because of their sexual orientation”, but that those who ‘disapprove’ of same-sex relationships should be allowed to express that view, the BUGB’s firm opposition to criminalization notwithstanding.)
There are several ‘branches’ of the ‘Baptist church’ … and different positions on ‘homosexuality’. Some parts of the ‘Baptist church’ leave the matter to individual congregations, I gather.
Making generalizations about Baptists or anyone else (e.g. gays) is counter-productive.
Makes no difefrence. Empty words. Worley just says iyt out loud, Baptists upported anti-sodomy laws i.e right to incarcerate gays. Bpatist preachers have been most vicious in thei anti-gay slander (latest being Richars Land who calls gays being under demonic influence). Baptists like Albert Mohler cried foul when Hillary Clinton dared to sughgets that religion is not reason enough to oppress human rights of gays.
Sorry, I do not believe a word they say. To them it is only aquestion of style but their goal is the same.
(That said, the ‘official’ position of the Southern Baptist Convention – the largest Baptist ‘umbrella organization – is one of pretty strident ‘disapproval’, although I’m not aware that the Convention itself actually advocates criminalizing consensual same-sex relationships. The position of the Baptist Union of Great Britain is a nuanced one: i.e. that same-sex couples “should not suffer discrimination because of their sexual orientation”, but that those who ‘disapprove’ of same-sex relationships should be allowed to express that view, the BUGB’s firm opposition to criminalization notwithstanding.)
There are several ‘branches’ of the ‘Baptist church’ … and different positions on ‘homosexuality’. Some parts of the ‘Baptist church’ leave the matter to individual congregations, I gather.
Making generalizations about Baptists or anyone else (e.g. gays) is counter-productive.
Makes no difefrence. Empty words. Worley just says iyt out loud, Baptists upported anti-sodomy laws i.e right to incarcerate gays. Bpatist preachers have been most vicious in thei anti-gay slander (latest being Richars Land who calls gays being under demonic influence). Baptists like Albert Mohler cried foul when Hillary Clinton dared to sughgets that religion is not reason enough to oppress human rights of gays.
Sorry, I do not believe a word they say. To them it is only aquestion of style but their goal is the same.
Danny says:
May 25, 2012 at 6:44 pm
“In fact, it is Worley, not Bill Leonard, who is accurately reflecting Biblical values.’
No Danny, Worley isn’t. Different people interpret the bible differently, that is why there are so many different sects of christianity. While many of these groups believe that only their interpretation is the correct one, not all do. Further, your attempts to brand all “true” christians as being like Worley, only hightlight your own lack of understanding of christianity.
This is very amusing. Not once in that column does he cite a single Biblical verse that repudiates Worley’s policy position. In the entire column, he cites only a single “be nice” verse from II Corinthians. In fact, it is Worley, not Bill Leonard, who is accurately reflecting Biblical values.
I wish there was an edit button. Above that should Read Christian POST
Thanks Bernie. Gotta love the Christian Pops (ahem), i found this in their article particularly humerus for its understatement.-
I am glad Warren is pointing us to other Baptist condemnation, we are looking for that and we appreciate hearing that.
This is very amusing. Not once in that column does he cite a single Biblical verse that repudiates Worley’s policy position. In the entire column, he cites only a single “be nice” verse from II Corinthians. In fact, it is Worley, not Bill Leonard, who is accurately reflecting Biblical values.
I wish there was an edit button. Above that should Read Christian POST
Thanks Bernie. Gotta love the Christian Pops (ahem), i found this in their article particularly humerus for its understatement.-
I am glad Warren is pointing us to other Baptist condemnation, we are looking for that and we appreciate hearing that.
Warren if you’re interested The Christian Post has finally published something on it, http://www.christianpost.com/news/pastors-reject-sermon-on-how-to-get-rid-of-homosexuals-75380/
Not as public as I’d like, certainly not :”broadcasting”, and not as representative as I’d like….. but close enough.
I’m impressed. And hopeful. I so wanted to be wrong, and am so glad to be!
There is hope.
Bravo! More! More!
Not as public as I’d like, certainly not :”broadcasting”, and not as representative as I’d like….. but close enough.
I’m impressed. And hopeful. I so wanted to be wrong, and am so glad to be!
There is hope.