In other news…
Leaders of the National Association for the Research and Therapy of Homosexuality (NARTH) like to say that the group is a scientific organization. Past president and current board member, Dean Byrd, told me that NARTH would not take a position on the criminalization of homosexuality because it is a scientific organization.
However, NARTH will promote the Torah, or at least the understanding of the Torah that requires reparative therapy. On the NARTH website, a link to the Torah Declaration is provided. This statement, by what appear to be a collection of Orthodox rabbis, and mental health professionals, relates to their view of the Torah requires of a person who is attracted to the same-sex:
The only viable course of action that is consistent with the Torah is therapy and teshuvah. The therapy consists of reinforcing the natural gender-identity of the individual by helping him or her understand and repair the emotional wounds that led to its disorientation and weakening, thus enabling the resumption and completion of the individual’s emotional development. Teshuvah is a Torah-mandated, self-motivated process of turning away from any transgression or sin and returning to G-d and one’s spiritual essence. This includes refining and reintegrating the personality and allowing it to grow in a healthy and wholesome manner.
These processes are typically facilitated and coordinated with the help of a specially trained counselor or therapist working in conjunction with a qualified spiritual teacher or guide. There is no other practical, Torah-sanctioned solution for this issue.
According to this group, NARTH is doing God’s work. Even more specifically, therapy must repair gender wounds which are assumed to cause the attractions.
The declaration takes the position that same-sex attraction can’t be anything other than what the declaration says it is because that is what the Torah says. No science is offered, no research.
As one might imagine, NARTH is represented in this group with Arthur Goldberg, and Norman Goldwasser listed as signers. MassResistance’s Brian Camenker is also a signer.
To be clear, I have no problem with the Rabbis teaching their congregations what they believe the Torah teaches. I post this because this is one more indication that NARTH is not a science group. Rather, they hold a religious view about homosexuality and bend research to promote that belief.
Teresa:
As I commented on the other thread, Yeshiva University is a “Modern Orthodox” school, so I would venture to guess that the names in this section are not “ultra”. (Though it may be that Yeshiva University has some Ultra-Orthodox faculty members — I’m not sure.)
Also, although there’s no rule against an Ultra-Orthodox Jew earning an M.D. or Ph.D. in a “secular field” such as medicine or psychology, stereotypically they’re allergic to anything secular and shun all other academic fields in favor of studying Talmud all the livelong day.
So, statistically, many of the M.D.s and psychologists listed are likely to be Modern Orthodox. And I would wager money that a lot of them have views on homosexuality that are shaped by secular “science” (i.e., some variation of Freudianism — “repair the emotional wounds” is a giveaway) as much as by Scripture… in other words, they’re NARTHoids whether or not they’re formally affiliated with NARTH.
Warren:
See also: Young Earth Creationism, and for that matter, Shroud of Turin promoters. (I was just reminded of the latter because apparently
the Turin Board of Tourisma group of eminent Italian scientists recently announced startling NEW evidence showing the image on cloth was formed by a intense burst of ultraviolet radiation!!!!! Wow, I remember Leonard Nimoy discussing that exact same “burst of radiation” idea on In Search Of…, way back in the disco era!)Not for nothing,Warren but the provenance of the Torah is hardly resolved. Indeed, at the Second Temple, the priests found conflicting scrolls. The differences were literally reconciled by committee. The Mesorectic texts seem to suggest that our current Torah is the result of a work that was translated from Hebrew to Aramaic to Greek and back again.
The there is the issue of being written without vowels and diacriticals (which are essential to Hebrew). At least what I learned for my Bar Mitzvah passage had spacing but the original text was scribed without any.
It is my opinion that the Torah was meant to be ambiguous to require rabbinical intervention. I would also add that Jewish law was eventually dependent upon the Talmud and the Pentatuch. A good example of this is capital punishment. While widely required by the Torah, the Talmud makes it virtually impossible to ever carry out. Oy veh, it is a torturous process.
Put four Jews in a room and they will find something to argue (vehemently) about. Seriously. I think that this is a cultural leftover from debate over scripture and Jewish law. Rabbis are far less certain than these homophobic schmucks.
The “Torah Declaration” attempts to help Jews. But instead it hurts them because it promotes the view that people with same sex attractions can actually be “cured” or changed into people with only opposite sex attractions. It has adopted the view of reparative therapy that childhood damage causes homosexuality, and that it can be cured. The problem with that is that this is a cruel hoax. The very people that would be willing to forgo the prohibited behaviors often also would very much like to believe that they can actually “convert” not only the lifestyle but the actual attractions completely. They end up finding out years later after this approach that is not the case and are devastated. This results in some suicides and leaving the faith.
Aside from all the mainstream psychiatric, psychological, social work, the World Health Organization and counselling groups even many experts among people that have been involved in “reparative therapy” mostly agree on this. It does not work in changing orientation.
Dr. Abba Borowich, an Orthodox psychiatrist who practiced reparative therapy for Orthodox homosexuals for nearly 30 years concluded that this was an ineffective course of therapy which only increased suffering among his patients and their families .
Rabbi Chaim Rapoport, an ultra-Orthodox rabbi who is the author of Judaism and Homosexuality: An Authentic Orthodox View, has said, “I am not obligated to believe in a failed therapy because it fits my theology better.”
See also
http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-EdContributors/Article.aspx?id=110642
According to those who do believe in such conversions, the success rate is around 0.5%
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_exod1.htm
The 0.5%% change raises a question, if the therapy does work the success rate should be 99% or at least 51%, but if it doesn’t how can anyone change?
This question is not answered in the research I have read. My opinion is that there are a few people who get involved with sexual relations, for a variety of reasons, with the same sex even though they are actually not oriented that way.
Another answer is that some people are not capable of admitting or knowing what is really going on.
Finally, many of these studies included people who make a living from claiming that this change is possible.
In contrast to the Declaration’s overly dramatic makeover claims, Mark Yarhouse believes that slight changes are possible but ” I don’t think that everyone can change or that anyone can change, as though it were just a matter of enough effort or of enough faith. Also, the data we have sees from our own research suggests that categorical change – 180 degrees – from gay to straight is less likely than what I refer to as meaningful shifts along a continuum (from same-sex to opposite-sex attraction).”
The leader of Exodus the largest public group of people (several hundreds) who changed from a gay to heterosexual lifestyle admits that this does not include an end of same sex attraction for 99.9% of the group.
“There has been a change in our beliefs about orientation change focused therapy and we don’t believe it’s effective.”
Dr. Spitzer
“If people can recognize that being a homosexual is something that cannot be changed and that efforts to change are going to be disappointing and can be harmful, if that can be more widely known that would be very good. ”
Another issue is that the Declaration group
led by Rabbi Kamenetsky, primarily relies on
and promotes
someone who is of bad character, who has a history of misleading people for profit, Arthur Goldberg of Jonah.
See
http://www.southfloridagaynews.com/news/national-news/547-ex-gay-is-ex-con.html
This organization has many problems
aside from a criminal history.
It can’t provide any proof of change, It has relied on crackpot therapies that have included touching that is prohibited by the Torah, and it relies primarily, and in great detail on the idea that Jesus will provide the change. This may help some Christians to become more Christian but can’t help make a Jew more Jewish.
I hope that in spite of what they must have experienced the twenty-five people
that have gone through the Torah Declaration path will have happy Torah lives. I believe that people who want to obey the Torah sex laws should have a way that helps them do so, but this is not the right way.
Without having clear evidence that a treatment is effective you cannot in good conscience recommend an unproven treatment that can cause undo pain, suffering, and death as the signers of this declaration have done.
But Orthodox Jewish religious therapists and rabbis have an alternative to this Declaration. See
statementofprinciplesnya.blogspot.com
The many rabbis that signed this other statement are truly concerned for both the 0.5% and the 99.5% group and have not endorsed a failed therapy because it would fit better with their theology.
The “Torah Declaration” attempts to help Jews. But instead it hurts them because it promotes the view that people with same sex attractions can actually be “cured” or changed into people with only opposite sex attractions. It has adopted the view of reparative therapy that childhood damage causes homosexuality, and that it can be cured. The problem with that is that this is a cruel hoax. The very people that would be willing to forgo the prohibited behaviors often also would very much like to believe that they can actually “convert” not only the lifestyle but the actual attractions completely. They end up finding out years later after this approach that is not the case and are devastated. This results in some suicides and leaving the faith.
Aside from all the mainstream psychiatric, psychological, social work, the World Health Organization and counselling groups even many experts among people that have been involved in “reparative therapy” mostly agree on this. It does not work in changing orientation.
Dr. Abba Borowich, an Orthodox psychiatrist who practiced reparative therapy for Orthodox homosexuals for nearly 30 years concluded that this was an ineffective course of therapy which only increased suffering among his patients and their families .
Rabbi Chaim Rapoport, an ultra-Orthodox rabbi who is the author of Judaism and Homosexuality: An Authentic Orthodox View, has said, “I am not obligated to believe in a failed therapy because it fits my theology better.”
See also
http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-EdContributors/Article.aspx?id=110642
According to those who do believe in such conversions, the success rate is around 0.5%
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_exod1.htm
The 0.5%% change raises a question, if the therapy does work the success rate should be 99% or at least 51%, but if it doesn’t how can anyone change?
This question is not answered in the research I have read. My opinion is that there are a few people who get involved with sexual relations, for a variety of reasons, with the same sex even though they are actually not oriented that way.
Another answer is that some people are not capable of admitting or knowing what is really going on.
Finally, many of these studies included people who make a living from claiming that this change is possible.
In contrast to the Declaration’s overly dramatic makeover claims, Mark Yarhouse believes that slight changes are possible but ” I don’t think that everyone can change or that anyone can change, as though it were just a matter of enough effort or of enough faith. Also, the data we have sees from our own research suggests that categorical change – 180 degrees – from gay to straight is less likely than what I refer to as meaningful shifts along a continuum (from same-sex to opposite-sex attraction).”
The leader of Exodus the largest public group of people (several hundreds) who changed from a gay to heterosexual lifestyle admits that this does not include an end of same sex attraction for 99.9% of the group.
“There has been a change in our beliefs about orientation change focused therapy and we don’t believe it’s effective.”
Dr. Spitzer
“If people can recognize that being a homosexual is something that cannot be changed and that efforts to change are going to be disappointing and can be harmful, if that can be more widely known that would be very good. ”
Another issue is that the Declaration group
led by Rabbi Kamenetsky, primarily relies on
and promotes
someone who is of bad character, who has a history of misleading people for profit, Arthur Goldberg of Jonah.
See
http://www.southfloridagaynews.com/news/national-news/547-ex-gay-is-ex-con.html
This organization has many problems
aside from a criminal history.
It can’t provide any proof of change, It has relied on crackpot therapies that have included touching that is prohibited by the Torah, and it relies primarily, and in great detail on the idea that Jesus will provide the change. This may help some Christians to become more Christian but can’t help make a Jew more Jewish.
I hope that in spite of what they must have experienced the twenty-five people
that have gone through the Torah Declaration path will have happy Torah lives. I believe that people who want to obey the Torah sex laws should have a way that helps them do so, but this is not the right way.
Without having clear evidence that a treatment is effective you cannot in good conscience recommend an unproven treatment that can cause undo pain, suffering, and death as the signers of this declaration have done.
But Orthodox Jewish religious therapists and rabbis have an alternative to this Declaration. See
statementofprinciplesnya.blogspot.com
The many rabbis that signed this other statement are truly concerned for both the 0.5% and the 99.5% group and have not endorsed a failed therapy because it would fit better with their theology.
“As one might imagine, NARTH is represented in this group with Arthur Goldberg, and Norman Goldwasser listed as signers. MassResistance’s Brian Camenker is also a signer.”
Wasn’t Arthur Goldberg a convicted felon who spent 18 months in prison for fraud in the 80’s? And isn’t he a founder of a Jewish “ex-gay” group JONAH?
http://www.exgaywatch.com/wp/2010/02/im-the-victim-convicted-felon-arthur-abba-goldberg-versus-the-world/
“As one might imagine, NARTH is represented in this group with Arthur Goldberg, and Norman Goldwasser listed as signers. MassResistance’s Brian Camenker is also a signer.”
Wasn’t Arthur Goldberg a convicted felon who spent 18 months in prison for fraud in the 80’s? And isn’t he a founder of a Jewish “ex-gay” group JONAH?
http://www.exgaywatch.com/wp/2010/02/im-the-victim-convicted-felon-arthur-abba-goldberg-versus-the-world/
Teresa:
As I commented on the other thread, Yeshiva University is a “Modern Orthodox” school, so I would venture to guess that the names in this section are not “ultra”. (Though it may be that Yeshiva University has some Ultra-Orthodox faculty members — I’m not sure.)
Also, although there’s no rule against an Ultra-Orthodox Jew earning an M.D. or Ph.D. in a “secular field” such as medicine or psychology, stereotypically they’re allergic to anything secular and shun all other academic fields in favor of studying Talmud all the livelong day.
So, statistically, many of the M.D.s and psychologists listed are likely to be Modern Orthodox. And I would wager money that a lot of them have views on homosexuality that are shaped by secular “science” (i.e., some variation of Freudianism — “repair the emotional wounds” is a giveaway) as much as by Scripture… in other words, they’re NARTHoids whether or not they’re formally affiliated with NARTH.
Warren:
See also: Young Earth Creationism, and for that matter, Shroud of Turin promoters. (I was just reminded of the latter because apparently
the Turin Board of Tourisma group of eminent Italian scientists recently announced startling NEW evidence showing the image on cloth was formed by a intense burst of ultraviolet radiation!!!!! Wow, I remember Leonard Nimoy discussing that exact same “burst of radiation” idea on In Search Of…, way back in the disco era!)Not for nothing,Warren but the provenance of the Torah is hardly resolved. Indeed, at the Second Temple, the priests found conflicting scrolls. The differences were literally reconciled by committee. The Mesorectic texts seem to suggest that our current Torah is the result of a work that was translated from Hebrew to Aramaic to Greek and back again.
The there is the issue of being written without vowels and diacriticals (which are essential to Hebrew). At least what I learned for my Bar Mitzvah passage had spacing but the original text was scribed without any.
It is my opinion that the Torah was meant to be ambiguous to require rabbinical intervention. I would also add that Jewish law was eventually dependent upon the Talmud and the Pentatuch. A good example of this is capital punishment. While widely required by the Torah, the Talmud makes it virtually impossible to ever carry out. Oy veh, it is a torturous process.
Put four Jews in a room and they will find something to argue (vehemently) about. Seriously. I think that this is a cultural leftover from debate over scripture and Jewish law. Rabbis are far less certain than these homophobic schmucks.
Warren, I noticed something else on that page and I have Googled your site trying to find if you have spoken about the “NARTH Practice Guidelines for the Treatment of Unwanted Same-Sex Attractions and Behavior?” But I could not immediately find anything.
See:
http://narth.com/2011/12/narth-practice-guidelines/
The references are about as long as the text for the Guidelines are. And yes, you are used as a reference at least four times (as lead author). Would the Narth Guidelines be a subject of an upcoming post (or posts)?
@Warren,
When you posted the Torah Declaration last week, I commented that NARTH would probably be signing on to this … just because of who they are and how they operate. Nice to see I wasn’t out “in the weeds” on my comment.
The Rabbis that signed this, I think, are what can be called ‘ultra-Orthodox’, for the most part. There’s been quite a brouhaha in Brooklyn, and in Israel, with the rise of ‘ultra-Orthodox’ and ‘ultra-ultra-Orthodox’. There are some very strange goings-on within these communities, much like the far-right Evangelicals.
I’m glad this is gonna be a short year, and all of this stuff will be gone, including us on 12-21-2012 … according to the Mayan Calendar.
Warren, I noticed something else on that page and I have Googled your site trying to find if you have spoken about the “NARTH Practice Guidelines for the Treatment of Unwanted Same-Sex Attractions and Behavior?” But I could not immediately find anything.
See:
http://narth.com/2011/12/narth-practice-guidelines/
The references are about as long as the text for the Guidelines are. And yes, you are used as a reference at least four times (as lead author). Would the Narth Guidelines be a subject of an upcoming post (or posts)?
@Warren,
When you posted the Torah Declaration last week, I commented that NARTH would probably be signing on to this … just because of who they are and how they operate. Nice to see I wasn’t out “in the weeds” on my comment.
The Rabbis that signed this, I think, are what can be called ‘ultra-Orthodox’, for the most part. There’s been quite a brouhaha in Brooklyn, and in Israel, with the rise of ‘ultra-Orthodox’ and ‘ultra-ultra-Orthodox’. There are some very strange goings-on within these communities, much like the far-right Evangelicals.
I’m glad this is gonna be a short year, and all of this stuff will be gone, including us on 12-21-2012 … according to the Mayan Calendar.