60 thoughts on “More calls for new laws against homosexuality in Ghana”
The law in Uganda applies to everyone living inside Uganda. Anyone who engages in deviant sexual behaviour is liable to a jail term upon conviction. Parliament of Uganda will not accept anything less than that.
How does the Parliment of Uganda monitor the sexual activity between two consenting adults in the privacy of they own homes? How do the citizens of Uganda monitor tthe sexual activity of members of the Parliament of Uganda and other government or authoritive officials?
How old are you? Five years? Please say something commensurate with your adult age.
Old enough to have sexual activity without being monitored or sanctioned by a government. Also, old enough to realize people will engage in the very activity they want to kill others for doing, and then lie about it – hence, the video request. Does the request make you uncomfortable?
Same in Uganda actually. And both human rights activists and the anti-gay brigade are receiving foreign cash, though the controversy over Bahati’s proposed ‘slaughter bill’ has probably led to a significant reduction in the amount of foreign cash the anti-gay brigade is receiving (and an increase in what human rights organizations are being given).
Some former African leaders (e.g. Kenneth Kaunda) are also calling for decriminalization, and even ‘gay marriage’, mainly on public health grounds.
What’s interesting is the calls for decriminalisation are coming from within Ghana by Ghanaians. This whole debate started because of an inaccurate newspaper report claiming 8000 homosexuals had been registered by an NGO! The anti-brigade started making a lot of noise and human rights activists in Ghana calmly responded. Foreigners are responding to the anti-brigade – the ones that are most reported in the press – and when they do, the antis say outsiders are trying to force homosexuality on the country. They continently “forget” that it is not outsiders but Ghanaians calling for a measured response to this issue. This pretence, that it is a “foreign” thing is disingenuous by those making the claim.
What’s interesting is the calls for decriminalisation are coming from within Ghana by Ghanaians.
Though I am not in Ghana. Internet reports and conversations with friends inside Ghana suggest that condemnation of gayism is overwhelming with a sprinkling of pro-gay noise from NGOs most of whom are beholden to their western donors.
Same in Uganda actually. And both human rights activists and the anti-gay brigade are receiving foreign cash, though the controversy over Bahati’s proposed ‘slaughter bill’ has probably led to a significant reduction
Why anyone would need cash to oppose a behaviour that is widely viewed as unAfrican, inhuman and insane is frankly beyond me. Only those who are working in concert with the gay imperialists of Europe and America to blackmail African nations to legalize gayism need lots of foreign cash infusions.
Some former African leaders (e.g. Kenneth Kaunda) are also calling for decriminalization, and even ‘gay marriage’, mainly on public health grounds.
Kenneth Kaunda is a flip-flopping clown. Nobody takes him seriously anymore.
Apologies: the word ‘Bill’ should follow ‘Bahati’ in para. 2, line 3 above.
‘Maazi NCO’ often gets rather dismissive of my comments when I get a little too ‘close to the bone’. He has dismissed things I’ve said before … things that have turned out to be not too wide of the mark. (Sometimes I do deliberately ‘fly kites’, as ‘Maazi NCO’s’ [often impetuous] responses to these often provide interesting insights into what is going on re. the Bahati Bill.)
‘Maazi NCO’ himself has in the past implied that, in his view, those who do their stuff in private should be left alone. Whether he was trying to pretend that the Bahati is not as savage and murderous as it actually is (and still is, even after Tashobya’s tinkering), or whether this actually reflects his own view is something he has not made clear when I’ve questioned him directly. He has tended, in response to my questions, to slither away into meaningless generalities about ‘gayism’ (whatever that is) …
‘Maazi NCO’ is probably deeply embarrassed by the lunatic fringe in his own parliament (and I wouldn’t blame him for that – I know many Ugandans, including some who are politically ‘well-connected’, who are) but finds it hard to face up to the fact of their potentially murderous antics
Are you now my SHRINK ? Trying to psycho-analyze me? Please don’t make me laugh…
In the spirit of fairness and justice, if certain sexual practices/activitities between two consenting adults is going to be monitored and sanctioned by your government, isn’t it discriminating not to include everyone?
The law in Uganda applies to everyone living inside Uganda. Anyone who engages in deviant sexual behaviour is liable to a jail term upon conviction. Parliament of Uganda will not accept anything less than that.
Better yet, a video of your sexual activity would eliminate the need to lie to us. I want to see the sexual integrity/ethic you…
How old are you? Five years? Please say something commensurate with your adult age.
Maazi NCO,
In the spirit of fairness and justice, if certain sexual practices/activitities between two consenting adults is going to be monitored and sanctioned by your government, isn’t it discriminating not to include everyone? While you might espouse a standard for sexual activity, I have no personal knowledge of what you or Bahti, or anyone else in your government or country, do for sexual activity. It could be very different from what you espouse. Perhaps you and the people calling for this bill to be passed could give us a written accounting, with every descriptive detail, of your sexual activity and then we will know how much integrity you have and if your word is credible. Better yet, a video of your sexual activity would eliminate the need to lie to us. I want to see the sexual integrity/ethic you and the people in your government espouse. I also think all of you should be held accountable for any errant activity as you are holding others accountable for.
But this thread is not about ‘gay marriage’; it is about (un)fairness with regard to penal legislation when it comes to consensual sexual relations.
The strategy of the euro-american gay lobby is to present their case as that of “privacy of the bedroom” in order for gayism to be legalized, thereby granting the lobbyists legal space to agitate for gay marriage, gay adoption rights and gay pride marches. We are not deceived by such strategies
We need to really change the world.
Isn’t this the problem? Who appointed Europeans or Americans as moral guardians of the world? Why not mind your own business? Why do you want to impose gayism on our people? Please stay in USA and celebrate New York’s “gay marriage”. Leave us alone.
Forget about any hope of seeing gay marriage confetti being sprayed in Kampala, Lagos, Accra, Kumasi, Abuja, Dares Saalam, Kigali, Kinshasa, Yaounde, Bujumbura, Bamako, Algiers, Cairo, N’ Djamena, Addis-Ababa, Luanda, Lusaka, etc,etc.
Good point, Ann.
As a point of principle, it is clearly unfair to punish gay people when straight people are not punished for the same activity (and pretty much all sexual activities are to be found in both ‘gay’ and ‘straight’ contexts).
‘Maazi NCO’ is probably deeply embarrassed by the lunatic fringe in his own parliament (and I wouldn’t blame him for that – I know many Ugandans, including some who are politically ‘well-connected’, who are) but finds it hard to face up to the fact of their potentially murderous antics, and join us in condemning these antics. His (unstated but actually rather obvious, if ones reads everything has posted on this blog over the last 18 months) ambivalence may be why he uses a pseudonym (unless he is simply being a homophobic coward – but I wish to be fair to him, and try to look beyond the anti-gay bluster).
But this thread is not about ‘gay marriage’; it is about (un)fairness with regard to penal legislation when it comes to consensual sexual relations.
‘Maazi NCO’ likes to talk about ‘gayism’ and ‘gay marriage’ and ‘gay pride marches’; but people like Bahati want to string up their fellow citizens – both male and female – simply because they have private sexual relations pursuant to informed consent.
It seems to be a solitary chief and let’s hope he has little success with his rallying of support. The new catch phrase seems to be “health risk”. Ironic considering their measures will prevent HIV education amongst this community.
would still like to know how Maazi NCO, the Parliment, etc. are monitored for their sexual activity. If there are consequences for certain sexual practices between two consenting adults, then shouldn’t everyone be monitored – and how will that be done? One does not have to identify as gay to engage in various and personal sexual activity.
Its frankly none of your business how we police our laws. Okay?
Maazi NCO,
Why not?
Ok, let me ask this then – how do you know if two consenting adults are engaging in sexual activity that is deemed illegal in your country? This would include everyone.
Talking of clowns …
‘Maazi NCO’ never lets facts get in the way of his opinions! He has to belittle Kaunda, despite the latter’s many achievements. Note also that he does not deny that the anti-gay brigade gets foreign cash … he merely tries to divert attention from this by making irrelevant noise.
He still needs to answer my question concerning his assertion that people who (and I here quote him) ‘do their stuff in private will be left alone‘. This is clearly not the intent of Bahati’s proposed slaughter programme. What I really what to know is this: when ‘Maazi NCO’ said what he said, was he trying to deceive us about the true nature of the Bahati Bill, or was he saying what he (in contrast to the likes of Bahati and Odonga) believed should be the case. I’d really like to know.
Incidentally, I happen to be aware that the Ugandan Minister of Internal Affairs is concerned about pressures on the prison system. I doubt very much he would want hoards of extra people being sent to prison simply because of consensual activities in their bedrooms or because they expressed a view that consensual same-sex activity should be decriminalized!
Incidentally, I happen to be aware that the Ugandan Minister of Internal Affairs is concerned about pressures on the prison system. I doubt very much he would want hoards of extra people being sent to prison simply because of consensual activities in their bedrooms or because they expressed a view that consensual same-sex activity should be decriminalized!
I thank ‘Maazi NCO’ for his compliment, but I am not going to be deflected from seeking a ‘straight’ (excuse the pun!) answer to my eminently reasonable question (which is linked with Ann’s questions to ‘Maazi NCO’) about his comment ‘those who do their stuff in private will be left alone‘. Was this comment designed to mislead, or does it reflect his thinking? It is a very straightforward question, and I want a straightforward answer before I make some carefully reasoned comments on the issues of incest and polygamy (the criminalization of the latter of which, may I remind ‘Maazi NCO’, is not the same thing as criminalizing having more than one [consensual] sexual partner at one time, just as decriminalizing same-sex relationships is not the same thing as legalizing ‘gay marriage’).
(Just to give a ‘flavour’ of my own views on the criminalization or otherwise of sexual relations generally:
1. I am opposed to the ipso facto criminalization of any sexual relations that are pursuant to genuinely informed consent. This does not mean that I ‘morally approve’ of any such relationships, rather it is because I believe that criminalization acts as an impediment to people who are in ‘unhealthy’ situations seeking the help and support they might want or need. I regard ‘legal recognition’ of such relationships as a separate matter from decriminalization.
2. With regard to specifically the Bahati Bill, it should remembered that expressing ‘pro-decriminalization’ views would itself be criminalized, and those who express such views would be liable to criminal penalties up to and including death by hanging [for ‘serial offenders’]. In very stark contrast, both ‘Maazi NCO’ and I are perfectly entitled, should we wish to do so, to express the view here in Britain that neither polygamy nor incest should be ipso facto criminal offences and publically set out arguments to support our respective positions on these matters.)
I thank ‘Maazi NCO’ for his compliment, but I am not going to be deflected from seeking a ‘straight’ (excuse the pun!) answer to my eminently reasonable question (which is linked with Ann’s questions to ‘Maazi NCO’) about his comment ‘those who do their stuff in private will be left alone‘. Was this comment designed to mislead, or does it reflect his thinking? It is a very straightforward question, and I want a straightforward answer before I make some carefully reasoned comments on the issues of incest and polygamy (the criminalization of the latter of which, may I remind ‘Maazi NCO’, is not the same thing as criminalizing having more than one [consensual] sexual partner at one time, just as decriminalizing same-sex relationships is not the same thing as legalizing ‘gay marriage’).
(Just to give a ‘flavour’ of my own views on the criminalization or otherwise of sexual relations generally:
1. I am opposed to the ipso facto criminalization of any sexual relations that are pursuant to genuinely informed consent. This does not mean that I ‘morally approve’ of any such relationships, rather it is because I believe that criminalization acts as an impediment to people who are in ‘unhealthy’ situations seeking the help and support they might want or need. I regard ‘legal recognition’ of such relationships as a separate matter from decriminalization.
2. With regard to specifically the Bahati Bill, it should remembered that expressing ‘pro-decriminalization’ views would itself be criminalized, and those who express such views would be liable to criminal penalties up to and including death by hanging [for ‘serial offenders’]. In very stark contrast, both ‘Maazi NCO’ and I are perfectly entitled, should we wish to do so, to express the view here in Britain that neither polygamy nor incest should be ipso facto criminal offences and publically set out arguments to support our respective positions on these matters.)
Richard,
I believe that you are a very intelligent man, but don’t get carried away. I can be very guarded when I wish to be….
If I wanted to reveal details about our plans and strategies, I would have done so already. The point is that you will have to wait and see what our beloved sovereign parliament pumps out as the successor bill to the Original 2009 version of Bahati Bill. I am sorry to say that I am not going to blow the whistle ahead of time.
As a side comment, let me tell you that I have heard reliably that many of the gay puppet groups in Kampala are fretting and calling on embassies of Western nations to pressure the executive branch of the Ugandan State to act as a kind of buffer zone between militant gay sex advocates and the aspirations of the Ugandan people as represented by our Parliament. We have even had our indefatigable speaker innudated with messages from idiotic sexual hedonists.
Let me just say that we are fully prepared and have learned a lot from the professional gay propagandist email spammers of Europe and America. Just as you chaps don’t like polygamy and prohibit it, so are we going to do what it takes in Uganda to keep gayism firmly criminalized.
I am surprised that Westerners still have an ounce of decency left in their depraved minds, hence the maintainance of the incest laws in their stature books. But then again isn’t it really stupid and hypocritical? If Western nations believe that it is okay for a man to shove his private part into the anus of another man, then why do they think it is necessary to criminalize an adult father and an adult daughter for having consensual sexual relations?
When ‘Maazi NCO’ has answered the question I have asked him twice before, I will then respond to the points he has made above. (Warren has already made several observations on the issue of bigamy / polygamy [which is not the same things as having two or more sexual partners, of course]; it would also be interesting to see what the Ugandan Penal Code has to say on the matter of incest.)
‘Maazi NCO’ still needs to answer my question concerning his assertion that people who (and I here quote him) ‘do their stuff in private will be left alone‘. This is clearly not the intent of Bahati’s proposed slaughter programme. What I really what to know is this: when ‘Maazi NCO’ said what he said, was he trying to deceive us about the true nature of the Bahati Bill, or was he saying what he (in contrast to the likes of Bahati and Odonga) believed should be the case?
I also understand his concern for gay activism in Uganda, however, to persecute and incarcerate individuals for how they have sex in private with another who is a consenting adult, goes way beyond an opinion or concern. It almost sounds personal to me.
Richard Willmer,
You keep bleating about “consenting adults,blah, blah, blah…”, but Western nations do not recognize this “informed consent” when it comes to using their law enforcement agencies (e.g. Federal Bureau of Investigations) to harass consenting adults in Utah who violate the bigamy laws by indulging in polygamous marriages. We continue to observe the reality that Austrians, Germans, Australians, Brits and other Western nations maintain strict incest laws against consenting adult relatives and enforce it as shown in this example and that example, but yet these hypocritical nations do not want the Parliament of Uganda to update their laws on sexual deviance.
Mind you, I do feel that there is something profoundly tasteless about advocating the persecution (and even the slaughter – if ‘Maazi NCO’ actually supports Bahati … although, despite the more hysterical of his rhetoric, I don’t think he does) of others from behind a pseudonym. This could be seen as an abuse of ‘freedom of expression’, especially if some of the things being said are not factually correct, or not supported by appropriate credible evidence (and ‘Maazi NCO’ does tend to ‘assert’ without citation).
Anyway, Ann – yes, I entirely understand your points, and agree that ‘Maazi NCO’ is free to express his opinions (a freedom he wishes to deny some of his fellow Ugandans).
‘Maazi NCO’ still needs to answer my question concerning his assertion that people who (and I here quote him) ‘do their stuff in private will be left alone‘. This is clearly not the intent of Bahati’s proposed slaughter programme. What I really what to know is this: when ‘Maazi NCO’ said what he said, was he trying to deceive us about the true nature of the Bahati Bill, or was he saying what he (in contrast to the likes of Bahati and Odonga) believed should be the case?
Talking of clowns …
would still like to know how Maazi NCO, the Parliment, etc. are monitored for their sexual activity. If there are consequences for certain sexual practices between two consenting adults, then shouldn’t everyone be monitored – and how will that be done? One does not have to identify as gay to engage in various and personal sexual activity.
Its frankly none of your business how we police our laws. Okay?
Maazi NCO,
Why not?
Ok, let me ask this then – how do you know if two consenting adults are engaging in sexual activity that is deemed illegal in your country? This would include everyone.
Maazi NCO,
Who is censoring your comments?
Of course, if censorship of my comments continues unabated on this blog then I will view it as time to move on. It never good to overstay your welcome…. 🙂
It seems Warren is now deleting some of my comments. Anyways, that is his own business after all this is his private blog….
Moving on….
would still like to know how Maazi NCO, the Parliment, etc. are monitored for their sexual activity. If there are consequences for certain sexual practices between two consenting adults, then shouldn’t everyone be monitored – and how will that be done? One does not have to identify as gay to engage in various and personal sexual activity.
Its frankly none of your business how we police our laws. Okay?
Maazi NCO’ never lets facts get in the way of his opinions! He has to belittle Kaunda, despite the latter’s many achievements.
Kaunda is a clown and was disgraced out of power in 1991 by massive protests and riots by the Zambian people. No one takes him seriously any more. Got that?
Richard,
I believe that you are a very intelligent man, but don’t get carried away. I can be very guarded when I wish to be….
If I wanted to reveal details about our plans and strategies, I would have done so already. The point is that you will have to wait and see what our beloved sovereign parliament pumps out as the successor bill to the Original 2009 version of Bahati Bill. I am sorry to say that I am not going to blow the whistle ahead of time.
As a side comment, let me tell you that I have heard reliably that many of the gay puppet groups in Kampala are fretting and calling on embassies of Western nations to pressure the executive branch of the Ugandan State to act as a kind of buffer zone between militant gay sex advocates and the aspirations of the Ugandan people as represented by our Parliament. We have even had our indefatigable speaker innudated with messages from idiotic sexual hedonists.
Let me just say that we are fully prepared and have learned a lot from the professional gay propagandist email spammers of Europe and America. Just as you chaps don’t like polygamy and prohibit it, so are we going to do what it takes in Uganda to keep gayism firmly criminalized.
I am surprised that Westerners still have an ounce of decency left in their depraved minds, hence the maintainance of the incest laws in their stature books. But then again isn’t it really stupid and hypocritical? If Western nations believe that it is okay for a man to shove his private part into the anus of another man, then why do they think it is necessary to criminalize an adult father and an adult daughter for having consensual sexual relations?
Richard Willmer,
I would still like to know how Maazi NCO, the Parliment, etc. are monitored for their sexual activity. If there are consequences for certain sexual practices between two consenting adults, then shouldn’t everyone be monitored – and how will that be done? One does not have to identify as gay to engage in various and personal sexual activity.
I absolutely support Maazi NCO’s right to hold certain opinions about sexual ethics – I have my own as well. The hiccup comes in when this opinion is thrust on another and then enforced with a law. I also understand his concern for gay activism in Uganda, however, to persecute and incarcerate individuals for how they have sex in private with another who is a consenting adult, goes way beyond an opinion or concern. It almost sounds personal to me.
When ‘Maazi NCO’ has answered the question I have asked him twice before, I will then respond to the points he has made above. (Warren has already made several observations on the issue of bigamy / polygamy [which is not the same things as having two or more sexual partners, of course]; it would also be interesting to see what the Ugandan Penal Code has to say on the matter of incest.)
‘Maazi NCO’ still needs to answer my question concerning his assertion that people who (and I here quote him) ‘do their stuff in private will be left alone‘. This is clearly not the intent of Bahati’s proposed slaughter programme. What I really what to know is this: when ‘Maazi NCO’ said what he said, was he trying to deceive us about the true nature of the Bahati Bill, or was he saying what he (in contrast to the likes of Bahati and Odonga) believed should be the case?
I also understand his concern for gay activism in Uganda, however, to persecute and incarcerate individuals for how they have sex in private with another who is a consenting adult, goes way beyond an opinion or concern. It almost sounds personal to me.
Richard Willmer,
You keep bleating about “consenting adults,blah, blah, blah…”, but Western nations do not recognize this “informed consent” when it comes to using their law enforcement agencies (e.g. Federal Bureau of Investigations) to harass consenting adults in Utah who violate the bigamy laws by indulging in polygamous marriages. We continue to observe the reality that Austrians, Germans, Australians, Brits and other Western nations maintain strict incest laws against consenting adult relatives and enforce it as shown in this example and that example, but yet these hypocritical nations do not want the Parliament of Uganda to update their laws on sexual deviance.
Mind you, I do feel that there is something profoundly tasteless about advocating the persecution (and even the slaughter – if ‘Maazi NCO’ actually supports Bahati … although, despite the more hysterical of his rhetoric, I don’t think he does) of others from behind a pseudonym. This could be seen as an abuse of ‘freedom of expression’, especially if some of the things being said are not factually correct, or not supported by appropriate credible evidence (and ‘Maazi NCO’ does tend to ‘assert’ without citation).
‘Maazi NCO’ never lets facts get in the way of his opinions! He has to belittle Kaunda, despite the latter’s many achievements. Note also that he does not deny that the anti-gay brigade gets foreign cash … he merely tries to divert attention from this by making irrelevant noise.
He still needs to answer my question concerning his assertion that people who (and I here quote him) ‘do their stuff in private will be left alone‘. This is clearly not the intent of Bahati’s proposed slaughter programme. What I really what to know is this: when ‘Maazi NCO’ said what he said, was he trying to deceive us about the true nature of the Bahati Bill, or was he saying what he (in contrast to the likes of Bahati and Odonga) believed should be the case. I’d really like to know.
Anyway, Ann – yes, I entirely understand your points, and agree that ‘Maazi NCO’ is free to express his opinions (a freedom he wishes to deny some of his fellow Ugandans).
‘Maazi NCO’ still needs to answer my question concerning his assertion that people who (and I here quote him) ‘do their stuff in private will be left alone‘. This is clearly not the intent of Bahati’s proposed slaughter programme. What I really what to know is this: when ‘Maazi NCO’ said what he said, was he trying to deceive us about the true nature of the Bahati Bill, or was he saying what he (in contrast to the likes of Bahati and Odonga) believed should be the case?
Maazi NCO,
Who is censoring your comments?
Of course, if censorship of my comments continues unabated on this blog then I will view it as time to move on. It never good to overstay your welcome…. 🙂
It seems Warren is now deleting some of my comments. Anyways, that is his own business after all this is his private blog….
Moving on….
would still like to know how Maazi NCO, the Parliment, etc. are monitored for their sexual activity. If there are consequences for certain sexual practices between two consenting adults, then shouldn’t everyone be monitored – and how will that be done? One does not have to identify as gay to engage in various and personal sexual activity.
Its frankly none of your business how we police our laws. Okay?
Maazi NCO’ never lets facts get in the way of his opinions! He has to belittle Kaunda, despite the latter’s many achievements.
Kaunda is a clown and was disgraced out of power in 1991 by massive protests and riots by the Zambian people. No one takes him seriously any more. Got that?
Richard Willmer,
I would still like to know how Maazi NCO, the Parliment, etc. are monitored for their sexual activity. If there are consequences for certain sexual practices between two consenting adults, then shouldn’t everyone be monitored – and how will that be done? One does not have to identify as gay to engage in various and personal sexual activity.
I absolutely support Maazi NCO’s right to hold certain opinions about sexual ethics – I have my own as well. The hiccup comes in when this opinion is thrust on another and then enforced with a law. I also understand his concern for gay activism in Uganda, however, to persecute and incarcerate individuals for how they have sex in private with another who is a consenting adult, goes way beyond an opinion or concern. It almost sounds personal to me.
What’s interesting is the calls for decriminalisation are coming from within Ghana by Ghanaians.
Though I am not in Ghana. Internet reports and conversations with friends inside Ghana suggest that condemnation of gayism is overwhelming with a sprinkling of pro-gay noise from NGOs most of whom are beholden to their western donors.
Same in Uganda actually. And both human rights activists and the anti-gay brigade are receiving foreign cash, though the controversy over Bahati’s proposed ‘slaughter bill’ has probably led to a significant reduction
Why anyone would need cash to oppose a behaviour that is widely viewed as unAfrican, inhuman and insane is frankly beyond me. Only those who are working in concert with the gay imperialists of Europe and America to blackmail African nations to legalize gayism need lots of foreign cash infusions.
Some former African leaders (e.g. Kenneth Kaunda) are also calling for decriminalization, and even ‘gay marriage’, mainly on public health grounds.
Kenneth Kaunda is a flip-flopping clown. Nobody takes him seriously anymore.
Same in Uganda actually. And both human rights activists and the anti-gay brigade are receiving foreign cash, though the controversy over Bahati’s proposed ‘slaughter bill’ has probably led to a significant reduction in the amount of foreign cash the anti-gay brigade is receiving (and an increase in what human rights organizations are being given).
Some former African leaders (e.g. Kenneth Kaunda) are also calling for decriminalization, and even ‘gay marriage’, mainly on public health grounds.
What’s interesting is the calls for decriminalisation are coming from within Ghana by Ghanaians. This whole debate started because of an inaccurate newspaper report claiming 8000 homosexuals had been registered by an NGO! The anti-brigade started making a lot of noise and human rights activists in Ghana calmly responded. Foreigners are responding to the anti-brigade – the ones that are most reported in the press – and when they do, the antis say outsiders are trying to force homosexuality on the country. They continently “forget” that it is not outsiders but Ghanaians calling for a measured response to this issue. This pretence, that it is a “foreign” thing is disingenuous by those making the claim.
Ann,
How the Ugandan State decides to police its laws is frankly none of your business and we don’t owe any foreigner any apology for the legitimate actions that parliamentarians are taking as the representatives of the Ugandan people.
Apologies: the word ‘Bill’ should follow ‘Bahati’ in para. 2, line 3 above.
‘Maazi NCO’ often gets rather dismissive of my comments when I get a little too ‘close to the bone’. He has dismissed things I’ve said before … things that have turned out to be not too wide of the mark. (Sometimes I do deliberately ‘fly kites’, as ‘Maazi NCO’s’ [often impetuous] responses to these often provide interesting insights into what is going on re. the Bahati Bill.)
‘Maazi NCO’ himself has in the past implied that, in his view, those who do their stuff in private should be left alone. Whether he was trying to pretend that the Bahati is not as savage and murderous as it actually is (and still is, even after Tashobya’s tinkering), or whether this actually reflects his own view is something he has not made clear when I’ve questioned him directly. He has tended, in response to my questions, to slither away into meaningless generalities about ‘gayism’ (whatever that is) …
The law in Uganda applies to everyone living inside Uganda. Anyone who engages in deviant sexual behaviour is liable to a jail term upon conviction. Parliament of Uganda will not accept anything less than that.
How does the Parliment of Uganda monitor the sexual activity between two consenting adults in the privacy of they own homes? How do the citizens of Uganda monitor tthe sexual activity of members of the Parliament of Uganda and other government or authoritive officials?
How old are you? Five years? Please say something commensurate with your adult age.
Old enough to have sexual activity without being monitored or sanctioned by a government. Also, old enough to realize people will engage in the very activity they want to kill others for doing, and then lie about it – hence, the video request. Does the request make you uncomfortable?
‘Maazi NCO’ is probably deeply embarrassed by the lunatic fringe in his own parliament (and I wouldn’t blame him for that – I know many Ugandans, including some who are politically ‘well-connected’, who are) but finds it hard to face up to the fact of their potentially murderous antics
Are you now my SHRINK ? Trying to psycho-analyze me? Please don’t make me laugh…
In the spirit of fairness and justice, if certain sexual practices/activitities between two consenting adults is going to be monitored and sanctioned by your government, isn’t it discriminating not to include everyone?
The law in Uganda applies to everyone living inside Uganda. Anyone who engages in deviant sexual behaviour is liable to a jail term upon conviction. Parliament of Uganda will not accept anything less than that.
Better yet, a video of your sexual activity would eliminate the need to lie to us. I want to see the sexual integrity/ethic you…
How old are you? Five years? Please say something commensurate with your adult age.
Good point, Ann.
As a point of principle, it is clearly unfair to punish gay people when straight people are not punished for the same activity (and pretty much all sexual activities are to be found in both ‘gay’ and ‘straight’ contexts).
‘Maazi NCO’ is probably deeply embarrassed by the lunatic fringe in his own parliament (and I wouldn’t blame him for that – I know many Ugandans, including some who are politically ‘well-connected’, who are) but finds it hard to face up to the fact of their potentially murderous antics, and join us in condemning these antics. His (unstated but actually rather obvious, if ones reads everything has posted on this blog over the last 18 months) ambivalence may be why he uses a pseudonym (unless he is simply being a homophobic coward – but I wish to be fair to him, and try to look beyond the anti-gay bluster).
Maazi NCO,
In the spirit of fairness and justice, if certain sexual practices/activitities between two consenting adults is going to be monitored and sanctioned by your government, isn’t it discriminating not to include everyone? While you might espouse a standard for sexual activity, I have no personal knowledge of what you or Bahti, or anyone else in your government or country, do for sexual activity. It could be very different from what you espouse. Perhaps you and the people calling for this bill to be passed could give us a written accounting, with every descriptive detail, of your sexual activity and then we will know how much integrity you have and if your word is credible. Better yet, a video of your sexual activity would eliminate the need to lie to us. I want to see the sexual integrity/ethic you and the people in your government espouse. I also think all of you should be held accountable for any errant activity as you are holding others accountable for.
But this thread is not about ‘gay marriage’; it is about (un)fairness with regard to penal legislation when it comes to consensual sexual relations.
The strategy of the euro-american gay lobby is to present their case as that of “privacy of the bedroom” in order for gayism to be legalized, thereby granting the lobbyists legal space to agitate for gay marriage, gay adoption rights and gay pride marches. We are not deceived by such strategies
Ann,
How the Ugandan State decides to police its laws is frankly none of your business and we don’t owe any foreigner any apology for the legitimate actions that parliamentarians are taking as the representatives of the Ugandan people.
But this thread is not about ‘gay marriage’; it is about (un)fairness with regard to penal legislation when it comes to consensual sexual relations.
‘Maazi NCO’ likes to talk about ‘gayism’ and ‘gay marriage’ and ‘gay pride marches’; but people like Bahati want to string up their fellow citizens – both male and female – simply because they have private sexual relations pursuant to informed consent.
We need to really change the world.
Isn’t this the problem? Who appointed Europeans or Americans as moral guardians of the world? Why not mind your own business? Why do you want to impose gayism on our people? Please stay in USA and celebrate New York’s “gay marriage”. Leave us alone.
Forget about any hope of seeing gay marriage confetti being sprayed in Kampala, Lagos, Accra, Kumasi, Abuja, Dares Saalam, Kigali, Kinshasa, Yaounde, Bujumbura, Bamako, Algiers, Cairo, N’ Djamena, Addis-Ababa, Luanda, Lusaka, etc,etc.
It seems to be a solitary chief and let’s hope he has little success with his rallying of support. The new catch phrase seems to be “health risk”. Ironic considering their measures will prevent HIV education amongst this community.
According to the Chief, who is also into farming, homosexuality comes with a lot of health implications, and besides being a health hazard, homosexuality was an abomination and should not be encouraged to incur the wrath of God.
The Chief has, therefore, called on the government to institute stiffer sanctions for those into this ungodly practice, suggesting not less than five years imprisonment for people caught in this sinful act.
There is that darned word again, “abomination” this word has caused, and continues to cause, tremendous grief. FIVE years in prison? We need to really change the world.
According to the Chief, who is also into farming, homosexuality comes with a lot of health implications, and besides being a health hazard, homosexuality was an abomination and should not be encouraged to incur the wrath of God.
The Chief has, therefore, called on the government to institute stiffer sanctions for those into this ungodly practice, suggesting not less than five years imprisonment for people caught in this sinful act.
There is that darned word again, “abomination” this word has caused, and continues to cause, tremendous grief. FIVE years in prison? We need to really change the world.
How does the Parliment of Uganda monitor the sexual activity between two consenting adults in the privacy of they own homes? How do the citizens of Uganda monitor tthe sexual activity of members of the Parliament of Uganda and other government or authoritive officials?
Old enough to have sexual activity without being monitored or sanctioned by a government. Also, old enough to realize people will engage in the very activity they want to kill others for doing, and then lie about it – hence, the video request. Does the request make you uncomfortable?
Same in Uganda actually. And both human rights activists and the anti-gay brigade are receiving foreign cash, though the controversy over Bahati’s proposed ‘slaughter bill’ has probably led to a significant reduction in the amount of foreign cash the anti-gay brigade is receiving (and an increase in what human rights organizations are being given).
Some former African leaders (e.g. Kenneth Kaunda) are also calling for decriminalization, and even ‘gay marriage’, mainly on public health grounds.
What’s interesting is the calls for decriminalisation are coming from within Ghana by Ghanaians. This whole debate started because of an inaccurate newspaper report claiming 8000 homosexuals had been registered by an NGO! The anti-brigade started making a lot of noise and human rights activists in Ghana calmly responded. Foreigners are responding to the anti-brigade – the ones that are most reported in the press – and when they do, the antis say outsiders are trying to force homosexuality on the country. They continently “forget” that it is not outsiders but Ghanaians calling for a measured response to this issue. This pretence, that it is a “foreign” thing is disingenuous by those making the claim.
Though I am not in Ghana. Internet reports and conversations with friends inside Ghana suggest that condemnation of gayism is overwhelming with a sprinkling of pro-gay noise from NGOs most of whom are beholden to their western donors.
Why anyone would need cash to oppose a behaviour that is widely viewed as unAfrican, inhuman and insane is frankly beyond me. Only those who are working in concert with the gay imperialists of Europe and America to blackmail African nations to legalize gayism need lots of foreign cash infusions.
Kenneth Kaunda is a flip-flopping clown. Nobody takes him seriously anymore.
Apologies: the word ‘Bill’ should follow ‘Bahati’ in para. 2, line 3 above.
‘Maazi NCO’ often gets rather dismissive of my comments when I get a little too ‘close to the bone’. He has dismissed things I’ve said before … things that have turned out to be not too wide of the mark. (Sometimes I do deliberately ‘fly kites’, as ‘Maazi NCO’s’ [often impetuous] responses to these often provide interesting insights into what is going on re. the Bahati Bill.)
‘Maazi NCO’ himself has in the past implied that, in his view, those who do their stuff in private should be left alone. Whether he was trying to pretend that the Bahati is not as savage and murderous as it actually is (and still is, even after Tashobya’s tinkering), or whether this actually reflects his own view is something he has not made clear when I’ve questioned him directly. He has tended, in response to my questions, to slither away into meaningless generalities about ‘gayism’ (whatever that is) …
Are you now my SHRINK ? Trying to psycho-analyze me? Please don’t make me laugh…
The law in Uganda applies to everyone living inside Uganda. Anyone who engages in deviant sexual behaviour is liable to a jail term upon conviction. Parliament of Uganda will not accept anything less than that.
How old are you? Five years? Please say something commensurate with your adult age.
Maazi NCO,
In the spirit of fairness and justice, if certain sexual practices/activitities between two consenting adults is going to be monitored and sanctioned by your government, isn’t it discriminating not to include everyone? While you might espouse a standard for sexual activity, I have no personal knowledge of what you or Bahti, or anyone else in your government or country, do for sexual activity. It could be very different from what you espouse. Perhaps you and the people calling for this bill to be passed could give us a written accounting, with every descriptive detail, of your sexual activity and then we will know how much integrity you have and if your word is credible. Better yet, a video of your sexual activity would eliminate the need to lie to us. I want to see the sexual integrity/ethic you and the people in your government espouse. I also think all of you should be held accountable for any errant activity as you are holding others accountable for.
The strategy of the euro-american gay lobby is to present their case as that of “privacy of the bedroom” in order for gayism to be legalized, thereby granting the lobbyists legal space to agitate for gay marriage, gay adoption rights and gay pride marches. We are not deceived by such strategies
Isn’t this the problem? Who appointed Europeans or Americans as moral guardians of the world? Why not mind your own business? Why do you want to impose gayism on our people? Please stay in USA and celebrate New York’s “gay marriage”. Leave us alone.
Forget about any hope of seeing gay marriage confetti being sprayed in Kampala, Lagos, Accra, Kumasi, Abuja, Dares Saalam, Kigali, Kinshasa, Yaounde, Bujumbura, Bamako, Algiers, Cairo, N’ Djamena, Addis-Ababa, Luanda, Lusaka, etc,etc.
Good point, Ann.
As a point of principle, it is clearly unfair to punish gay people when straight people are not punished for the same activity (and pretty much all sexual activities are to be found in both ‘gay’ and ‘straight’ contexts).
‘Maazi NCO’ is probably deeply embarrassed by the lunatic fringe in his own parliament (and I wouldn’t blame him for that – I know many Ugandans, including some who are politically ‘well-connected’, who are) but finds it hard to face up to the fact of their potentially murderous antics, and join us in condemning these antics. His (unstated but actually rather obvious, if ones reads everything has posted on this blog over the last 18 months) ambivalence may be why he uses a pseudonym (unless he is simply being a homophobic coward – but I wish to be fair to him, and try to look beyond the anti-gay bluster).
But this thread is not about ‘gay marriage’; it is about (un)fairness with regard to penal legislation when it comes to consensual sexual relations.
‘Maazi NCO’ likes to talk about ‘gayism’ and ‘gay marriage’ and ‘gay pride marches’; but people like Bahati want to string up their fellow citizens – both male and female – simply because they have private sexual relations pursuant to informed consent.
It seems to be a solitary chief and let’s hope he has little success with his rallying of support. The new catch phrase seems to be “health risk”. Ironic considering their measures will prevent HIV education amongst this community.
would still like to know how Maazi NCO, the Parliment, etc. are monitored for their sexual activity. If there are consequences for certain sexual practices between two consenting adults, then shouldn’t everyone be monitored – and how will that be done? One does not have to identify as gay to engage in various and personal sexual activity.
Its frankly none of your business how we police our laws. Okay?
Maazi NCO,
Why not?
Ok, let me ask this then – how do you know if two consenting adults are engaging in sexual activity that is deemed illegal in your country? This would include everyone.
Talking of clowns …
‘Maazi NCO’ never lets facts get in the way of his opinions! He has to belittle Kaunda, despite the latter’s many achievements. Note also that he does not deny that the anti-gay brigade gets foreign cash … he merely tries to divert attention from this by making irrelevant noise.
He still needs to answer my question concerning his assertion that people who (and I here quote him) ‘do their stuff in private will be left alone‘. This is clearly not the intent of Bahati’s proposed slaughter programme. What I really what to know is this: when ‘Maazi NCO’ said what he said, was he trying to deceive us about the true nature of the Bahati Bill, or was he saying what he (in contrast to the likes of Bahati and Odonga) believed should be the case. I’d really like to know.
Incidentally, I happen to be aware that the Ugandan Minister of Internal Affairs is concerned about pressures on the prison system. I doubt very much he would want hoards of extra people being sent to prison simply because of consensual activities in their bedrooms or because they expressed a view that consensual same-sex activity should be decriminalized!
Incidentally, I happen to be aware that the Ugandan Minister of Internal Affairs is concerned about pressures on the prison system. I doubt very much he would want hoards of extra people being sent to prison simply because of consensual activities in their bedrooms or because they expressed a view that consensual same-sex activity should be decriminalized!
I thank ‘Maazi NCO’ for his compliment, but I am not going to be deflected from seeking a ‘straight’ (excuse the pun!) answer to my eminently reasonable question (which is linked with Ann’s questions to ‘Maazi NCO’) about his comment ‘those who do their stuff in private will be left alone‘. Was this comment designed to mislead, or does it reflect his thinking? It is a very straightforward question, and I want a straightforward answer before I make some carefully reasoned comments on the issues of incest and polygamy (the criminalization of the latter of which, may I remind ‘Maazi NCO’, is not the same thing as criminalizing having more than one [consensual] sexual partner at one time, just as decriminalizing same-sex relationships is not the same thing as legalizing ‘gay marriage’).
(Just to give a ‘flavour’ of my own views on the criminalization or otherwise of sexual relations generally:
1. I am opposed to the ipso facto criminalization of any sexual relations that are pursuant to genuinely informed consent. This does not mean that I ‘morally approve’ of any such relationships, rather it is because I believe that criminalization acts as an impediment to people who are in ‘unhealthy’ situations seeking the help and support they might want or need. I regard ‘legal recognition’ of such relationships as a separate matter from decriminalization.
2. With regard to specifically the Bahati Bill, it should remembered that expressing ‘pro-decriminalization’ views would itself be criminalized, and those who express such views would be liable to criminal penalties up to and including death by hanging [for ‘serial offenders’]. In very stark contrast, both ‘Maazi NCO’ and I are perfectly entitled, should we wish to do so, to express the view here in Britain that neither polygamy nor incest should be ipso facto criminal offences and publically set out arguments to support our respective positions on these matters.)
I thank ‘Maazi NCO’ for his compliment, but I am not going to be deflected from seeking a ‘straight’ (excuse the pun!) answer to my eminently reasonable question (which is linked with Ann’s questions to ‘Maazi NCO’) about his comment ‘those who do their stuff in private will be left alone‘. Was this comment designed to mislead, or does it reflect his thinking? It is a very straightforward question, and I want a straightforward answer before I make some carefully reasoned comments on the issues of incest and polygamy (the criminalization of the latter of which, may I remind ‘Maazi NCO’, is not the same thing as criminalizing having more than one [consensual] sexual partner at one time, just as decriminalizing same-sex relationships is not the same thing as legalizing ‘gay marriage’).
(Just to give a ‘flavour’ of my own views on the criminalization or otherwise of sexual relations generally:
1. I am opposed to the ipso facto criminalization of any sexual relations that are pursuant to genuinely informed consent. This does not mean that I ‘morally approve’ of any such relationships, rather it is because I believe that criminalization acts as an impediment to people who are in ‘unhealthy’ situations seeking the help and support they might want or need. I regard ‘legal recognition’ of such relationships as a separate matter from decriminalization.
2. With regard to specifically the Bahati Bill, it should remembered that expressing ‘pro-decriminalization’ views would itself be criminalized, and those who express such views would be liable to criminal penalties up to and including death by hanging [for ‘serial offenders’]. In very stark contrast, both ‘Maazi NCO’ and I are perfectly entitled, should we wish to do so, to express the view here in Britain that neither polygamy nor incest should be ipso facto criminal offences and publically set out arguments to support our respective positions on these matters.)
Richard,
I believe that you are a very intelligent man, but don’t get carried away. I can be very guarded when I wish to be….
If I wanted to reveal details about our plans and strategies, I would have done so already. The point is that you will have to wait and see what our beloved sovereign parliament pumps out as the successor bill to the Original 2009 version of Bahati Bill. I am sorry to say that I am not going to blow the whistle ahead of time.
As a side comment, let me tell you that I have heard reliably that many of the gay puppet groups in Kampala are fretting and calling on embassies of Western nations to pressure the executive branch of the Ugandan State to act as a kind of buffer zone between militant gay sex advocates and the aspirations of the Ugandan people as represented by our Parliament. We have even had our indefatigable speaker innudated with messages from idiotic sexual hedonists.
Let me just say that we are fully prepared and have learned a lot from the professional gay propagandist email spammers of Europe and America. Just as you chaps don’t like polygamy and prohibit it, so are we going to do what it takes in Uganda to keep gayism firmly criminalized.
I am surprised that Westerners still have an ounce of decency left in their depraved minds, hence the maintainance of the incest laws in their stature books. But then again isn’t it really stupid and hypocritical? If Western nations believe that it is okay for a man to shove his private part into the anus of another man, then why do they think it is necessary to criminalize an adult father and an adult daughter for having consensual sexual relations?
When ‘Maazi NCO’ has answered the question I have asked him twice before, I will then respond to the points he has made above. (Warren has already made several observations on the issue of bigamy / polygamy [which is not the same things as having two or more sexual partners, of course]; it would also be interesting to see what the Ugandan Penal Code has to say on the matter of incest.)
‘Maazi NCO’ still needs to answer my question concerning his assertion that people who (and I here quote him) ‘do their stuff in private will be left alone‘. This is clearly not the intent of Bahati’s proposed slaughter programme. What I really what to know is this: when ‘Maazi NCO’ said what he said, was he trying to deceive us about the true nature of the Bahati Bill, or was he saying what he (in contrast to the likes of Bahati and Odonga) believed should be the case?
Richard Willmer,
You keep bleating about “consenting adults,blah, blah, blah…”, but Western nations do not recognize this “informed consent” when it comes to using their law enforcement agencies (e.g. Federal Bureau of Investigations) to harass consenting adults in Utah who violate the bigamy laws by indulging in polygamous marriages. We continue to observe the reality that Austrians, Germans, Australians, Brits and other Western nations maintain strict incest laws against consenting adult relatives and enforce it as shown in this example and that example, but yet these hypocritical nations do not want the Parliament of Uganda to update their laws on sexual deviance.
Mind you, I do feel that there is something profoundly tasteless about advocating the persecution (and even the slaughter – if ‘Maazi NCO’ actually supports Bahati … although, despite the more hysterical of his rhetoric, I don’t think he does) of others from behind a pseudonym. This could be seen as an abuse of ‘freedom of expression’, especially if some of the things being said are not factually correct, or not supported by appropriate credible evidence (and ‘Maazi NCO’ does tend to ‘assert’ without citation).
Anyway, Ann – yes, I entirely understand your points, and agree that ‘Maazi NCO’ is free to express his opinions (a freedom he wishes to deny some of his fellow Ugandans).
‘Maazi NCO’ still needs to answer my question concerning his assertion that people who (and I here quote him) ‘do their stuff in private will be left alone‘. This is clearly not the intent of Bahati’s proposed slaughter programme. What I really what to know is this: when ‘Maazi NCO’ said what he said, was he trying to deceive us about the true nature of the Bahati Bill, or was he saying what he (in contrast to the likes of Bahati and Odonga) believed should be the case?
Talking of clowns …
would still like to know how Maazi NCO, the Parliment, etc. are monitored for their sexual activity. If there are consequences for certain sexual practices between two consenting adults, then shouldn’t everyone be monitored – and how will that be done? One does not have to identify as gay to engage in various and personal sexual activity.
Its frankly none of your business how we police our laws. Okay?
Maazi NCO,
Why not?
Ok, let me ask this then – how do you know if two consenting adults are engaging in sexual activity that is deemed illegal in your country? This would include everyone.
Maazi NCO,
Who is censoring your comments?
Of course, if censorship of my comments continues unabated on this blog then I will view it as time to move on. It never good to overstay your welcome…. 🙂
It seems Warren is now deleting some of my comments. Anyways, that is his own business after all this is his private blog….
Moving on….
Its frankly none of your business how we police our laws. Okay?
Kaunda is a clown and was disgraced out of power in 1991 by massive protests and riots by the Zambian people. No one takes him seriously any more. Got that?
Richard,
I believe that you are a very intelligent man, but don’t get carried away. I can be very guarded when I wish to be….
If I wanted to reveal details about our plans and strategies, I would have done so already. The point is that you will have to wait and see what our beloved sovereign parliament pumps out as the successor bill to the Original 2009 version of Bahati Bill. I am sorry to say that I am not going to blow the whistle ahead of time.
As a side comment, let me tell you that I have heard reliably that many of the gay puppet groups in Kampala are fretting and calling on embassies of Western nations to pressure the executive branch of the Ugandan State to act as a kind of buffer zone between militant gay sex advocates and the aspirations of the Ugandan people as represented by our Parliament. We have even had our indefatigable speaker innudated with messages from idiotic sexual hedonists.
Let me just say that we are fully prepared and have learned a lot from the professional gay propagandist email spammers of Europe and America. Just as you chaps don’t like polygamy and prohibit it, so are we going to do what it takes in Uganda to keep gayism firmly criminalized.
I am surprised that Westerners still have an ounce of decency left in their depraved minds, hence the maintainance of the incest laws in their stature books. But then again isn’t it really stupid and hypocritical? If Western nations believe that it is okay for a man to shove his private part into the anus of another man, then why do they think it is necessary to criminalize an adult father and an adult daughter for having consensual sexual relations?
Richard Willmer,
I would still like to know how Maazi NCO, the Parliment, etc. are monitored for their sexual activity. If there are consequences for certain sexual practices between two consenting adults, then shouldn’t everyone be monitored – and how will that be done? One does not have to identify as gay to engage in various and personal sexual activity.
I absolutely support Maazi NCO’s right to hold certain opinions about sexual ethics – I have my own as well. The hiccup comes in when this opinion is thrust on another and then enforced with a law. I also understand his concern for gay activism in Uganda, however, to persecute and incarcerate individuals for how they have sex in private with another who is a consenting adult, goes way beyond an opinion or concern. It almost sounds personal to me.
When ‘Maazi NCO’ has answered the question I have asked him twice before, I will then respond to the points he has made above. (Warren has already made several observations on the issue of bigamy / polygamy [which is not the same things as having two or more sexual partners, of course]; it would also be interesting to see what the Ugandan Penal Code has to say on the matter of incest.)
‘Maazi NCO’ still needs to answer my question concerning his assertion that people who (and I here quote him) ‘do their stuff in private will be left alone‘. This is clearly not the intent of Bahati’s proposed slaughter programme. What I really what to know is this: when ‘Maazi NCO’ said what he said, was he trying to deceive us about the true nature of the Bahati Bill, or was he saying what he (in contrast to the likes of Bahati and Odonga) believed should be the case?
Richard Willmer,
You keep bleating about “consenting adults,blah, blah, blah…”, but Western nations do not recognize this “informed consent” when it comes to using their law enforcement agencies (e.g. Federal Bureau of Investigations) to harass consenting adults in Utah who violate the bigamy laws by indulging in polygamous marriages. We continue to observe the reality that Austrians, Germans, Australians, Brits and other Western nations maintain strict incest laws against consenting adult relatives and enforce it as shown in this example and that example, but yet these hypocritical nations do not want the Parliament of Uganda to update their laws on sexual deviance.
Mind you, I do feel that there is something profoundly tasteless about advocating the persecution (and even the slaughter – if ‘Maazi NCO’ actually supports Bahati … although, despite the more hysterical of his rhetoric, I don’t think he does) of others from behind a pseudonym. This could be seen as an abuse of ‘freedom of expression’, especially if some of the things being said are not factually correct, or not supported by appropriate credible evidence (and ‘Maazi NCO’ does tend to ‘assert’ without citation).
‘Maazi NCO’ never lets facts get in the way of his opinions! He has to belittle Kaunda, despite the latter’s many achievements. Note also that he does not deny that the anti-gay brigade gets foreign cash … he merely tries to divert attention from this by making irrelevant noise.
He still needs to answer my question concerning his assertion that people who (and I here quote him) ‘do their stuff in private will be left alone‘. This is clearly not the intent of Bahati’s proposed slaughter programme. What I really what to know is this: when ‘Maazi NCO’ said what he said, was he trying to deceive us about the true nature of the Bahati Bill, or was he saying what he (in contrast to the likes of Bahati and Odonga) believed should be the case. I’d really like to know.
Anyway, Ann – yes, I entirely understand your points, and agree that ‘Maazi NCO’ is free to express his opinions (a freedom he wishes to deny some of his fellow Ugandans).
‘Maazi NCO’ still needs to answer my question concerning his assertion that people who (and I here quote him) ‘do their stuff in private will be left alone‘. This is clearly not the intent of Bahati’s proposed slaughter programme. What I really what to know is this: when ‘Maazi NCO’ said what he said, was he trying to deceive us about the true nature of the Bahati Bill, or was he saying what he (in contrast to the likes of Bahati and Odonga) believed should be the case?
Maazi NCO,
Who is censoring your comments?
Of course, if censorship of my comments continues unabated on this blog then I will view it as time to move on. It never good to overstay your welcome…. 🙂
It seems Warren is now deleting some of my comments. Anyways, that is his own business after all this is his private blog….
Moving on….
Its frankly none of your business how we police our laws. Okay?
Kaunda is a clown and was disgraced out of power in 1991 by massive protests and riots by the Zambian people. No one takes him seriously any more. Got that?
Richard Willmer,
I would still like to know how Maazi NCO, the Parliment, etc. are monitored for their sexual activity. If there are consequences for certain sexual practices between two consenting adults, then shouldn’t everyone be monitored – and how will that be done? One does not have to identify as gay to engage in various and personal sexual activity.
I absolutely support Maazi NCO’s right to hold certain opinions about sexual ethics – I have my own as well. The hiccup comes in when this opinion is thrust on another and then enforced with a law. I also understand his concern for gay activism in Uganda, however, to persecute and incarcerate individuals for how they have sex in private with another who is a consenting adult, goes way beyond an opinion or concern. It almost sounds personal to me.
Though I am not in Ghana. Internet reports and conversations with friends inside Ghana suggest that condemnation of gayism is overwhelming with a sprinkling of pro-gay noise from NGOs most of whom are beholden to their western donors.
Why anyone would need cash to oppose a behaviour that is widely viewed as unAfrican, inhuman and insane is frankly beyond me. Only those who are working in concert with the gay imperialists of Europe and America to blackmail African nations to legalize gayism need lots of foreign cash infusions.
Kenneth Kaunda is a flip-flopping clown. Nobody takes him seriously anymore.
Same in Uganda actually. And both human rights activists and the anti-gay brigade are receiving foreign cash, though the controversy over Bahati’s proposed ‘slaughter bill’ has probably led to a significant reduction in the amount of foreign cash the anti-gay brigade is receiving (and an increase in what human rights organizations are being given).
Some former African leaders (e.g. Kenneth Kaunda) are also calling for decriminalization, and even ‘gay marriage’, mainly on public health grounds.
What’s interesting is the calls for decriminalisation are coming from within Ghana by Ghanaians. This whole debate started because of an inaccurate newspaper report claiming 8000 homosexuals had been registered by an NGO! The anti-brigade started making a lot of noise and human rights activists in Ghana calmly responded. Foreigners are responding to the anti-brigade – the ones that are most reported in the press – and when they do, the antis say outsiders are trying to force homosexuality on the country. They continently “forget” that it is not outsiders but Ghanaians calling for a measured response to this issue. This pretence, that it is a “foreign” thing is disingenuous by those making the claim.
Ann,
How the Ugandan State decides to police its laws is frankly none of your business and we don’t owe any foreigner any apology for the legitimate actions that parliamentarians are taking as the representatives of the Ugandan people.
Apologies: the word ‘Bill’ should follow ‘Bahati’ in para. 2, line 3 above.
‘Maazi NCO’ often gets rather dismissive of my comments when I get a little too ‘close to the bone’. He has dismissed things I’ve said before … things that have turned out to be not too wide of the mark. (Sometimes I do deliberately ‘fly kites’, as ‘Maazi NCO’s’ [often impetuous] responses to these often provide interesting insights into what is going on re. the Bahati Bill.)
‘Maazi NCO’ himself has in the past implied that, in his view, those who do their stuff in private should be left alone. Whether he was trying to pretend that the Bahati is not as savage and murderous as it actually is (and still is, even after Tashobya’s tinkering), or whether this actually reflects his own view is something he has not made clear when I’ve questioned him directly. He has tended, in response to my questions, to slither away into meaningless generalities about ‘gayism’ (whatever that is) …
How does the Parliment of Uganda monitor the sexual activity between two consenting adults in the privacy of they own homes? How do the citizens of Uganda monitor tthe sexual activity of members of the Parliament of Uganda and other government or authoritive officials?
Old enough to have sexual activity without being monitored or sanctioned by a government. Also, old enough to realize people will engage in the very activity they want to kill others for doing, and then lie about it – hence, the video request. Does the request make you uncomfortable?
Are you now my SHRINK ? Trying to psycho-analyze me? Please don’t make me laugh…
The law in Uganda applies to everyone living inside Uganda. Anyone who engages in deviant sexual behaviour is liable to a jail term upon conviction. Parliament of Uganda will not accept anything less than that.
How old are you? Five years? Please say something commensurate with your adult age.
Good point, Ann.
As a point of principle, it is clearly unfair to punish gay people when straight people are not punished for the same activity (and pretty much all sexual activities are to be found in both ‘gay’ and ‘straight’ contexts).
‘Maazi NCO’ is probably deeply embarrassed by the lunatic fringe in his own parliament (and I wouldn’t blame him for that – I know many Ugandans, including some who are politically ‘well-connected’, who are) but finds it hard to face up to the fact of their potentially murderous antics, and join us in condemning these antics. His (unstated but actually rather obvious, if ones reads everything has posted on this blog over the last 18 months) ambivalence may be why he uses a pseudonym (unless he is simply being a homophobic coward – but I wish to be fair to him, and try to look beyond the anti-gay bluster).
Maazi NCO,
In the spirit of fairness and justice, if certain sexual practices/activitities between two consenting adults is going to be monitored and sanctioned by your government, isn’t it discriminating not to include everyone? While you might espouse a standard for sexual activity, I have no personal knowledge of what you or Bahti, or anyone else in your government or country, do for sexual activity. It could be very different from what you espouse. Perhaps you and the people calling for this bill to be passed could give us a written accounting, with every descriptive detail, of your sexual activity and then we will know how much integrity you have and if your word is credible. Better yet, a video of your sexual activity would eliminate the need to lie to us. I want to see the sexual integrity/ethic you and the people in your government espouse. I also think all of you should be held accountable for any errant activity as you are holding others accountable for.
The strategy of the euro-american gay lobby is to present their case as that of “privacy of the bedroom” in order for gayism to be legalized, thereby granting the lobbyists legal space to agitate for gay marriage, gay adoption rights and gay pride marches. We are not deceived by such strategies
Ann,
How the Ugandan State decides to police its laws is frankly none of your business and we don’t owe any foreigner any apology for the legitimate actions that parliamentarians are taking as the representatives of the Ugandan people.
But this thread is not about ‘gay marriage’; it is about (un)fairness with regard to penal legislation when it comes to consensual sexual relations.
‘Maazi NCO’ likes to talk about ‘gayism’ and ‘gay marriage’ and ‘gay pride marches’; but people like Bahati want to string up their fellow citizens – both male and female – simply because they have private sexual relations pursuant to informed consent.
Isn’t this the problem? Who appointed Europeans or Americans as moral guardians of the world? Why not mind your own business? Why do you want to impose gayism on our people? Please stay in USA and celebrate New York’s “gay marriage”. Leave us alone.
Forget about any hope of seeing gay marriage confetti being sprayed in Kampala, Lagos, Accra, Kumasi, Abuja, Dares Saalam, Kigali, Kinshasa, Yaounde, Bujumbura, Bamako, Algiers, Cairo, N’ Djamena, Addis-Ababa, Luanda, Lusaka, etc,etc.
It seems to be a solitary chief and let’s hope he has little success with his rallying of support. The new catch phrase seems to be “health risk”. Ironic considering their measures will prevent HIV education amongst this community.
There is that darned word again, “abomination” this word has caused, and continues to cause, tremendous grief. FIVE years in prison? We need to really change the world.
There is that darned word again, “abomination” this word has caused, and continues to cause, tremendous grief. FIVE years in prison? We need to really change the world.