The Guardian has published cables from the US Embassy regarding Uganda’s Anti-Homosexuality Bill. In this, you get an interesting look inside US policy on this issue.
Cable dated:2009-12-24T08:27:00
C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 04 KAMPALA 001413 SIPDIS
E.O. 12958: DECL: 2019/12/24
TAGS: PHUM, PGOV, PREL, UG
SUBJECT: UGANDA: HOMOPHOBE EXTREMISTS AND HOMOSEXUAL SCAPEGOATS
REF: 09 KAMPALA 01381; 09 KAMPALA 1409; 09 KAMPALA 1396 09 KAMPALA 01024
CLASSIFIED BY: Aaron Sampson, Pol/Econ Chief, State, Pol/Econ; REASON: 1.4(B), (D)
1. (C) Summary: Parliamentary sponsor of the anti-homosexuality bill, David Bahati, told PolOffs on December 15 that he is open to minor changes to his legislation, expressed deep disappointment with Rick Warren and others’ statements against the bill, and said Uganda will not yield to international pressure. On December 18, Bahati and Pastor Martin Ssempa dominated a one-sided “consultative meeting” on the bill organized by the Uganda Human Rights Commission with UN funding. Bahati directly challenged the White House statement against the bill, and said impending oil revenues will soon liberate Uganda from international influence. Members of the Legal and Parliamentary Affairs Committee continue to maintain that the anti-homosexuality bill is not a priority and will not come up for debate in committee until March or April 2011. However, domestic pressure on parliamentarians is growing. XXXXXXXXXXXX
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Bahati Unrepentant
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2. (C) PolOffs met with Bahati on December 15 to provide recent statements by Rick Warren and others against the anti-homosexuality bill. At Bahati’s request, the meeting occurred at the Anglican Church of Uganda’s headquarters where Bahati said he was reviewing the legislation with Anglican Church leaders. XXXXXXXXXXXX Bahati entered our meeting with a document entitled “The 10 Deadly Sins of Homosexuality”, and launched into a lengthy explanation of the current bill, saying it renders existing law more specific by defining homosexuality and attaching penalties for homosexual “recruitment”. He criticized international donors for short circuiting Uganda’s democratic procedures when it is in their interest, said demands to withdraw the legislation outright are unacceptable, and ridiculed recent threats by Sweden to cut its assistance (ref. A). Bahati attributed international criticism to a misreading of the text and a misunderstanding of the “situation on the ground” in Uganda.
3. (U) Bahati described the bill as a “proposal”, solicited recommendations for “improving” the legislation, and appeared moderately open to altering provisions regarding the death penalty and requirements to report homosexual activity to authorities within 24 hours. Bahati said he personally does not believe in the death penalty and that this language was lifted directly from Uganda’s 2007 Defilement Act. He said he is talking with XXXXXXXXXXXX about the bill’s impact on HIV/AIDS programs, but that he does not believe the legislation will negatively impact HIV/AIDS prevention. Although Bahati claimed the bill is intended to further protect minors from sexual predators, he seemed unaware and unconcerned that his bill’s “aggravated homosexuality” provision also condemns to death “serial offenders” twice convicted of the lesser and much more vague infractions of “homosexuality” and “related offenses”.
4. (C) Bahati expressed profound disappointment with Rick Warren’s letter against the billXXXXXXXXXXXX and said Ugandan church leaders are in the process of drafting a response. XXXXXXXXXXXX Bahati hoped Parliament’s Legal and Parliamentary Affairs Committee will take up the bill in February 2010, but said his overriding goal is to see the bill into law – and he stressed that the bill will become law – by the February 2011 elections.
KAMPALA 00001413 002 OF 004
5. (C) Bahati’s reasoning for introducing the bill alternated between protecting children from sexual predators, eradicating Uganda of homosexuality, and some combination of the two. He claimed to have evidence documenting the homosexual recruitment of children, particularly in same sex schools and churches, and said the bill’s provisions on reporting suspected homosexuality specifically target school masters and religious leaders. When asked to elaborate on evidence of supposed homosexual recruitment, Bahati referred to a XXXXXXXXXXXX pamphlet distributed in Uganda in 2002 that mentioned same-sex attraction, vague activities of unnamed foreign NGOs, and “networking” among foreign diplomats. At the end of the meeting, Bahati noted that he is also the Chairman of the Uganda Boy Scouts and is working on another bill – the second of his short Parliamentary career – updating Uganda’s 1963 Scouts Act. We did not ask if this bill will also target homosexuality.
—————————————–
One-Sided Human Rights Debate
——————————————
6. (C) On December 18, the Uganda Human Rights Commission (UHRC) organized – with support from the UN Office of the High Commissioner on Human Rights – what turned out to be a one-sided debate on the anti-homosexuality bill. XXXXXXXXXXXX Prior to the debate PolOff received a text message from XXXXXXXXXXXX expressing concerns for the safety of XXXXXXXXXXXX representatives scheduled to attend the event. Bahati’s late arrival delayed the event for more than an hour, and the UHRC failed to seat any representative of those opposed to the legislation at the head table, despite seating Bahati and – for unexplained reasons – Uganda’s most outspoken anti-gay activist Martin Ssempa. A comment by an audience member later prompted the UHRC to correct this imbalance by inviting a clearly hesitant and nervous SMUG leader, David Kato, to sit beside Ssempa on the dais. Ssempa proceeded to shake Kato’s hand while striking absurd poses for the assembled press corps.
7. (C) Bahati’s remarks mirrored his private statements to PolOffs. Bahati also attacked the White House statement opposing the bill, saying that he admires President Obama, that President Obama ran on a platform of change, and that Uganda’s message to him is that “homosexuality is not a change but rather an evil that we must fight.” At this point the room erupted in loud applause, led by Ssempa pounding his hand on the head table, and Bahati observed that oil revenues will free Uganda of foreign entanglements. At other points in Bahati’s tirade against homosexuality, Ssempa registered his support by issuing audible sounds of disgust.
8. (C) Kato delivered a well-written speech defending the rights of gay and lesbians in Uganda. However, his words were nearly indecipherable due to his evident nervousness. Throughout Kato’s speech, XXXXXXXXXXXX UHRCXXXXXXXXXXXX openly joked and snickered with Bahati and Ssempa XXXXXXXXXXXX. XXXXXXXXXXXX representatives left shortly after Kato’s speech, fearing that Bahati had instructed the Inspector General of Police to arrest Kato. After a break, Ssempa showed graphic x-rated photos of what he described as gay sex, and several audience members rose to ask why authorities did not arrest Ugandan homosexuals when they had the chance. XXXXXXXXXXXX
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Buturo – He’s Back
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KAMPALA 00001413 003 OF 004
9. XXXXXXXXXXXX
——————————————— —-
Parliamentary Debate in March or April
——————————————— —-
10. (C) XXXXXXXXXXXX reaffirmed that Bahati’s bill is not a priority and that debate on the legislation will likely not begin until March or April 2011 (ref. C). Key bills on election reform, political party funding, and the International Criminal Court are already pending before XXXXXXXXXXX. XXXXXXXXXXXX said pressure to move the anti-homosexuality bill to the front of the line is “disturbing” committee members, but XXXXXXXXXXXX and take a skeptical view of anti-homosexuality legislation.
11. (C) Bahati tried to shift the bill from the Legal and Parliamentary Affairs Committee to the more favorable Presidential and Foreign Affairs Committee on December 15 but failed as there is no provision in Parliament to re-assign legislation from one committee to another. XXXXXXXXXXXX said the bill “has no place in our modern world”, and XXXXXXXXXXXX
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Opposition Concerns
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12. (C) XXXXXXXXXXXX told PolOff XXXXXXXXXXXX. In September, Otunnu accused state security services of running a smear campaign about his sexual orientation and HIV status to discredit a potential presidential bid (ref. D). XXXXXXXXXXXX speculated that Uganda could run a similar smear campaign against Besigye, forcing him to curtail presidential campaign activities.
KAMPALA 00001413 004 OF 004
13. (SBU) XXXXXXXXXXXX said the opposition FDC fears Uganda will use the anti-homosexuality legislation against Besigye, and recalled government efforts to hobble Besigye’s 2006 presidential campaign by arresting him on spurious charges of rape, terrorism, and treason. XXXXXXXXXXXX speculated that Uganda could disrupt Besigye’s 2011 campaign with phony homosexuality allegations.
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Comment: Homophobic Demagogues
——————————————— –
14. (C) Recent condemnations by Warren and other U.S. based individuals have further isolated Bahati. His homophobia, however, is blinding and incurable. Bahati, Buturo, and particularly Ssempa’s ability to channel popular anger over Uganda’s socio-political failings into violent hatred of a previously unpopular but tolerated minority is chilling. XXXXXXXXXXXX described Ssempa as an anti-homosexuality “extremist.” XXXXXXXXXXXX said he opposes the legislation not because he favors homosexuality, but because legalizing persecution of homosexuals is the first step toward state sponsored persecution of other minority groups. On December 22, XXXXXXXXXXXX asked PolOff if the U.S. could provide an expert speaker to reinforce arguments exposing the human rights ramifications of Bahati’s legislation in advance of parliamentary hearings. Helping those attempting to counter Bahati, Buturo, and Ssempa to better craft their arguments – perhaps through a digital video conference or some other venue – is worth pursuing.
LANIER
@ Maazi
Your evidence is a couple of leaflets left around. Really that’s it? So your saying Sexual perversion (your words)is OK just don’t bring it out in the open. That’s your justification for stirring up hate. Maazi do you believe that what is happening in Uganda is unique to Ugandans? This kind of hate mongering has happened throughout history. Do you really believe that the Jews were responsible for all of Germanys problems? That is what the masses were told and propaganda of the time led them to go along with or turn a blind eye for the state to kill all undesirables. The road of lies laid out to you by Amnerican fudies and your government who’s some members happens to belong to a perverted christian group here in the U.S. called the Family (C-street). This is a play that has already ran its course in the U.S. and their lies about homosexuality the ones you believe have played themselves out and now they are exporting those lies. You may not need the fundies but they were paid to give a advice to teachers and policeman.
@ Ann
I have many dear Uganda friends, and my conscience would not permit me to subject them to so appalling a fate!!!!!!!!
As for the Bahati Bill itself: let us not forget that much has happened since these cables were written …
I reckon that those who are really running things in UG have lost interest in Bahati’s harebrain scheme to murder gays. I also doubt they want to make a huge fuss about a couple of leaflets either, there are much more pressing concerns, not least the sizeable UG budget deficit. Perhaps it would be better to leave all those taxpaying gays alone!!!
The law in Uganda treat all people equally. Any Ugandan regardless of their sexual fetishes are equally liable to jail time if they commit the abominable crime of sodomy, bestiality, necrophilia and other forms of sexual perversion.
Man, stop lying !!! I lived and worked in United States for several years. I know for a fact that renegade Mormons in Utah who engage in polygamous marriages are always under harassment by law enforcement agencies. I know the amount of time that federal law enforcement agents spend chasing bigamists round the country.
Well, Ugandans have always been fine when the deviants kept their inhuman stuff out of the public eye. However, this changed when the deviants decided to take their behaviour outdoors. Since 2005 gay sex militants under the control of the Euro-American Gay Lobby have been promoting their criminal behaviour through press conferences and radio interviews, demanding special dispensation to contravene the law.
They stand accused of sensitizing the youths who they claim are “confused about their sexuality” with promotional material. I am aware that in 2007, a couple of promotion leaflets were surreptitiously left in various public places asking “young people confused with their sexuality to get in touch”. This caused a major uproar among parents.
In Uganda, no sane citizen is interested in getting anyone executed or harassed for holding private sexual thoughts even if they are depraved and un-African. However, militant gay sex advocacy must be contained to prevent social strife and no amount of lobbying will prevent the Ugandan State from acting on the wishes of the vast majority of its people.
Sorry, Warren … I’m being very naughty!
Germanys problems?
Being Jewish or Black is a natural and immutable ethno-racial identity issue. It is not comparable in any way to deviant sexual behaviour. Gayism is actually comparable to necrophilia, sado-masochism, incest, etc.
That is the lie that you believe. We now know that to be Gay is a natural state found in Nature, and Science has found links which they can create this in the Womb. I tell you this, not because I expect you to believe it, but it is because of this Science that the Religious lunies who have been createing myths are losing their credibility here in the U.S. They try to claim that there is some powerful Gay advocates who control the media (another lie). The fact is christian Religion is very powerful here in the U.S. And their claim to cure homosexuality was exposed as a lie. many of them made lots of money trying to convert homosexuals. It is through this action that the lies began to be exposed. They claimed success but had no evidence to support their claims. Maazi you seem very intelligent but prejudices have a way of blocking out the truth.
Well, ‘Maazi’, we will indeed see what happens … but I think it is worth remembering that M7 is firmly in the driving seat, and I doubt he will allow the now ‘dead duck’ Eighth Parliament do anything that damages the broad interests of the country he continues to lead …
BTW, ‘Maazi’ dear: when it comes to UG politics, I do have some interesting contacts, and have over the years picked up some interesting insights … but I do not rule out the possibility that you might be right about Bahati-lite – hence the relevant international human rights campaign will continue at full pitch.
Of course, most sensible politicians, in UG and elsewhere, know that it is perfectly possible to protect children, etc., WITHOUT resorting to unjust laws against minority groups.
@ Richard
We know the damage Leaflets can do to corrupt the youth of Uganda. Perhaps your being a little light in the punishment sector. Send Lou Engle over there to start is youth crusade.
@ Andy
‘Maazi’s’ ‘evidence’ is really classy stuff! Hahaha!
Richard,
It is obvious from his commentary that he is an American and framing his points from what he has read in the US media. The rest of your posting is just bunkum really.
Being Jewish or Black is a natural and immutable ethno-racial identity issue. It is not comparable in any way to deviant sexual behaviour. Gayism is actually comparable to necrophilia, sado-masochism, incest, etc. Stop trying to obfuscate the facts with pro-gay propaganda. BTW, never you insult the Jewish People with nonsensical statements such as yours.
You are not original at all—are you? Continue believing the nonsense reported as news in the US media.
Ugandans are intelligent people and will act in the best interests of their nation. They do not need any foreigner to tell them how to run their nation. After all, the diplomatic and monetary support the domestic gay sex militants have received from governments, media, celebrities and gay lobbies in the West have not succeeded in pushing the Ugandan people to move away from their determination to bolster their sex crime laws.
@Maaz1
You don’t need American Christian Fundementalist to creates lies and hate for it seems your quite capable of doing that with out the help of fringe lunitics. My question to you is why now? Gays have lived peacefully among the Ugandans for years and all of the sudden lies about recruitment and child molestation, foster by American Fundies, are coming out as if you have undercoverd some secret plot. Where is this proof? Could it be that Oil will make the country wealthy and some are positioning for power? just a thought.
@Willmer
he can’t answer your question because there is no answer. Its not the so called perversion that is the problem it is the simple fact they need a scapegoat to distract from whats really going on. (just like the so called witchcraft and the killing of innocent children)
Ah, I forgot that you are an expert on Ugandan politics. 😀 We will see in the coming weeks if the Ugandan State will allow gay sex militancy to spiral out of control.
@ ‘Maazi’
The Bahati Bill is aimed specifically at gays, their families and their friends. Have you actually read the draft bill?
As for ‘bunkum’: well, you’re the expert there, honey! (By the way, the info I quoted actually came from an ANTI-gay interlocutor of mine – someone who used the same arguments as you do to justify discrimination!)
Why shouldn’t there be counselling facilities for people who feel confused? Sounds like a very good idea to me! (Offers of counselling are not ‘recruitment’ – well, not to a logical mind anyway.) How amazing that two leaflets should lead to a demented fuss; sounds like paranoia to me! No wonder UG is not exactly the most peaceful place on earth! Get a grip, sweetie!
Yes I have read it thoroughly. It is unduly harsh and poorly written. I am aware that the plan is to amend it substantially in the following manner— XXXXXXXXXX, XXXXXXX and thereafter XXXXXXX.
Because these so-called “counseling services” are unsolicited and an affront to decency, public interest and public morality. No one has any right to encourage youths to subvert the rule of law by engaging in a sex crime.
Yours is a stupid question that deserves no answer because there is no such thing as “gay” and “straight” identities. One either engages in sexual perversion or not. Those who engage in sexual perversion commit a crime in Uganda. It is as simple as that.
We will see how your fake punditry works out in the weeks ahead !! 🙂
Very interesting, even with the censored names and phrases littered all over the “secret” cable. Ambassador Lanier is apparently a talented writer with a good pro-gay sense of imagination.
Having said that, I think it would be interesting to see his take on the XXXXXXXX after the February 2011 elections. XXXXXXXX knows that it is a matter of time before XXXXXX. The alterations will likely include XXXXXXXXX and retain XXXXXXX. Thereafter, the amended bill will XXXXXX and ensure that gayism is dealt with properly. XXXXXXXX will be needed. It is of the uttermost importance that XXXXXXX is maintained in a state of XXXXXX at this point in time. ——-MAAZI NCO
After all, you and the Westerners who passionately back your depraved lifestyle share the same vested interests on subverting the sex crime laws of Uganda.
The first step in Dictatorship is persecution of unprotected minority. Find a scapecoat and try to unite the masses through propaganda. Who’s next the opposition party?
Well, I could argue that the first step back to Nazism in Germany is its criminalization of a minority of its citizens who engage in incest. There was one particular case in Germany a few years ago where a brother and sister who sired children together landed in jail. I don’t remember western NGOs screaming “human rights violation !!!”. Of course, using your gay propagandist logic, we could argue that the United States Government is descending to fascism for criminalizing a minority of its religious Mormon men and women who—out of their own free will—decided to engage in polygamy (a.k.a “bigamy”).
Just had a though: anyone who promotes the new Anti-Leaflet Bill by distributing leaflets could be in big trouble …
(Similarly, those who keep going on about ‘gayism’ are in a strange way promoting the taboo that excites them so much. Better perhaps if they just keep quiet …)
On a more serious note: focusing on ‘bashing gays’ in order to ‘protect children’ is completely missing the main problem … which is the exploitation of children in ‘heterosexual contexts’. Anyone serious about protecting children will work for the creation of comprehensive laws to deal with all forms of child sexual abuse and exploitation. More important still is the embedding of a ‘culture’ of safeguarding children – a culture which allows all children to grow in self-confidence so that they can make their own responsible decisions concerning human relationships in their own good time.
Just had a though: anyone who promotes the new Anti-Leaflet Bill by distributing leaflets could be in big trouble …
(Similarly, those who keep going on about ‘gayism’ are in a strange way promoting the taboo that excites them so much. Better perhaps if they just keep quiet …)
On a more serious note: focusing on ‘bashing gays’ in order to ‘protect children’ is completely missing the main problem … which is the exploitation of children in ‘heterosexual contexts’. Anyone serious about protecting children will work for the creation of comprehensive laws to deal with all forms of child sexual abuse and exploitation. More important still is the embedding of a ‘culture’ of safeguarding children – a culture which allows all children to grow in self-confidence so that they can make their own responsible decisions concerning human relationships in their own good time.
@ Ann
I have many dear Uganda friends, and my conscience would not permit me to subject them to so appalling a fate!!!!!!!!
@ Richard
We know the damage Leaflets can do to corrupt the youth of Uganda. Perhaps your being a little light in the punishment sector. Send Lou Engle over there to start is youth crusade.
Sorry, Warren … I’m being very naughty!
‘Maazi’, love
I’ve just reread some of your recent comments. You now seem to be saying that ‘private acts’ are OK (like you did back in December 2009, before ‘back-tracking’ in December 2010). Yes? So why not decriminalise those, and have a completely new Anti-Leaflet Bill instead?!
Such as Bill could include the following ‘offences’ (penalties):-
1. Distribution of Leaflets (five dozen lashes applied to the bare bottom of the offender – to be administered by ‘Maazi NCO’)
2. Aggravated Distribution of Leaflets (ten dozen lashes …)
3. Promoting the Distribution of Leaflets (three dozen lashes …)
4. Failure to report the Distribution of Leaflets (two dozen lashes …)
5. Distribution of Leaflets in a foreign country (Scott Lively administers the appropriate number of lashes under a contract with the Ugandan Ministry of the Interior)
6. Campaigning for the human rights of those engaged in the Distribution of Leaflets (Bryan Fischer smacks the bare bottom of the ‘offender’ with his bare hand under a contract with …)
Any other clauses? Andy – what d’you reckon? Could this a ‘winner’?
Well, Ugandans have always been fine when the deviants kept their inhuman stuff out of the public eye. However, this changed when the deviants decided to take their behaviour outdoors. Since 2005 gay sex militants under the control of the Euro-American Gay Lobby have been promoting their criminal behaviour through press conferences and radio interviews, demanding special dispensation to contravene the law.
Who are these Euro-American Gay lobbiest? Gay sex militantsReally? Conspiracy theory anyone? How dare them! You mean they want to live without fear! Who do they think they are. Some of the questions that were said about African-Americans during the Civil Rights Era. We as a nation promoted segregation and slavery and we did so by the same means that you in Ugandans are doing it now. Through self serving lies and propaganda.There was much to be gained by some for this type of hate mongering. What makes you think this is any different? Look at who benefits from this hate and you will find the true answers to what is going on in your country.
BTW, ‘Maazi’ dear: when it comes to UG politics, I do have some interesting contacts, and have over the years picked up some interesting insights … but I do not rule out the possibility that you might be right about Bahati-lite – hence the relevant international human rights campaign will continue at full pitch.
Of course, most sensible politicians, in UG and elsewhere, know that it is perfectly possible to protect children, etc., WITHOUT resorting to unjust laws against minority groups.
Well, ‘Maazi’, we will indeed see what happens … but I think it is worth remembering that M7 is firmly in the driving seat, and I doubt he will allow the now ‘dead duck’ Eighth Parliament do anything that damages the broad interests of the country he continues to lead …
Germanys problems?
Being Jewish or Black is a natural and immutable ethno-racial identity issue. It is not comparable in any way to deviant sexual behaviour. Gayism is actually comparable to necrophilia, sado-masochism, incest, etc.
That is the lie that you believe. We now know that to be Gay is a natural state found in Nature, and Science has found links which they can create this in the Womb. I tell you this, not because I expect you to believe it, but it is because of this Science that the Religious lunies who have been createing myths are losing their credibility here in the U.S. They try to claim that there is some powerful Gay advocates who control the media (another lie). The fact is christian Religion is very powerful here in the U.S. And their claim to cure homosexuality was exposed as a lie. many of them made lots of money trying to convert homosexuals. It is through this action that the lies began to be exposed. They claimed success but had no evidence to support their claims. Maazi you seem very intelligent but prejudices have a way of blocking out the truth.
Ah, I forgot that you are an expert on Ugandan politics. 😀 We will see in the coming weeks if the Ugandan State will allow gay sex militancy to spiral out of control.
As for the Bahati Bill itself: let us not forget that much has happened since these cables were written …
I reckon that those who are really running things in UG have lost interest in Bahati’s harebrain scheme to murder gays. I also doubt they want to make a huge fuss about a couple of leaflets either, there are much more pressing concerns, not least the sizeable UG budget deficit. Perhaps it would be better to leave all those taxpaying gays alone!!!
Being Jewish or Black is a natural and immutable ethno-racial identity issue. It is not comparable in any way to deviant sexual behaviour. Gayism is actually comparable to necrophilia, sado-masochism, incest, etc. Stop trying to obfuscate the facts with pro-gay propaganda. BTW, never you insult the Jewish People with nonsensical statements such as yours.
You are not original at all—are you? Continue believing the nonsense reported as news in the US media.
Ugandans are intelligent people and will act in the best interests of their nation. They do not need any foreigner to tell them how to run their nation. After all, the diplomatic and monetary support the domestic gay sex militants have received from governments, media, celebrities and gay lobbies in the West have not succeeded in pushing the Ugandan people to move away from their determination to bolster their sex crime laws.
@ Andy
‘Maazi’s’ ‘evidence’ is really classy stuff! Hahaha!
@ Maazi
Your evidence is a couple of leaflets left around. Really that’s it? So your saying Sexual perversion (your words)is OK just don’t bring it out in the open. That’s your justification for stirring up hate. Maazi do you believe that what is happening in Uganda is unique to Ugandans? This kind of hate mongering has happened throughout history. Do you really believe that the Jews were responsible for all of Germanys problems? That is what the masses were told and propaganda of the time led them to go along with or turn a blind eye for the state to kill all undesirables. The road of lies laid out to you by Amnerican fudies and your government who’s some members happens to belong to a perverted christian group here in the U.S. called the Family (C-street). This is a play that has already ran its course in the U.S. and their lies about homosexuality the ones you believe have played themselves out and now they are exporting those lies. You may not need the fundies but they were paid to give a advice to teachers and policeman.
Yes I have read it thoroughly. It is unduly harsh and poorly written. I am aware that the plan is to amend it substantially in the following manner— XXXXXXXXXX, XXXXXXX and thereafter XXXXXXX.
Because these so-called “counseling services” are unsolicited and an affront to decency, public interest and public morality. No one has any right to encourage youths to subvert the rule of law by engaging in a sex crime.
@ ‘Maazi’
The Bahati Bill is aimed specifically at gays, their families and their friends. Have you actually read the draft bill?
As for ‘bunkum’: well, you’re the expert there, honey! (By the way, the info I quoted actually came from an ANTI-gay interlocutor of mine – someone who used the same arguments as you do to justify discrimination!)
Why shouldn’t there be counselling facilities for people who feel confused? Sounds like a very good idea to me! (Offers of counselling are not ‘recruitment’ – well, not to a logical mind anyway.) How amazing that two leaflets should lead to a demented fuss; sounds like paranoia to me! No wonder UG is not exactly the most peaceful place on earth! Get a grip, sweetie!
Richard,
It is obvious from his commentary that he is an American and framing his points from what he has read in the US media. The rest of your posting is just bunkum really.
The law in Uganda treat all people equally. Any Ugandan regardless of their sexual fetishes are equally liable to jail time if they commit the abominable crime of sodomy, bestiality, necrophilia and other forms of sexual perversion.
Man, stop lying !!! I lived and worked in United States for several years. I know for a fact that renegade Mormons in Utah who engage in polygamous marriages are always under harassment by law enforcement agencies. I know the amount of time that federal law enforcement agents spend chasing bigamists round the country.
Well, Ugandans have always been fine when the deviants kept their inhuman stuff out of the public eye. However, this changed when the deviants decided to take their behaviour outdoors. Since 2005 gay sex militants under the control of the Euro-American Gay Lobby have been promoting their criminal behaviour through press conferences and radio interviews, demanding special dispensation to contravene the law.
They stand accused of sensitizing the youths who they claim are “confused about their sexuality” with promotional material. I am aware that in 2007, a couple of promotion leaflets were surreptitiously left in various public places asking “young people confused with their sexuality to get in touch”. This caused a major uproar among parents.
In Uganda, no sane citizen is interested in getting anyone executed or harassed for holding private sexual thoughts even if they are depraved and un-African. However, militant gay sex advocacy must be contained to prevent social strife and no amount of lobbying will prevent the Ugandan State from acting on the wishes of the vast majority of its people.
@ Andy
Correct – there is indeed no answer!
I take it that you are Ugandan? Yes? Well now – did you know that the latest survey* puts ‘anti-gay prejudice’ at around 75% (well down on the 95% that many anti-gay propagandist like to quote). A Per Forum survey conducted last year put the ‘anti-gay’ vote at 79%.
* Odoki Commission
@Maaz1
You don’t need American Christian Fundementalist to creates lies and hate for it seems your quite capable of doing that with out the help of fringe lunitics. My question to you is why now? Gays have lived peacefully among the Ugandans for years and all of the sudden lies about recruitment and child molestation, foster by American Fundies, are coming out as if you have undercoverd some secret plot. Where is this proof? Could it be that Oil will make the country wealthy and some are positioning for power? just a thought.
@Willmer
he can’t answer your question because there is no answer. Its not the so called perversion that is the problem it is the simple fact they need a scapegoat to distract from whats really going on. (just like the so called witchcraft and the killing of innocent children)
‘Maazi’, love
I’ve just reread some of your recent comments. You now seem to be saying that ‘private acts’ are OK (like you did back in December 2009, before ‘back-tracking’ in December 2010). Yes? So why not decriminalise those, and have a completely new Anti-Leaflet Bill instead?!
Such as Bill could include the following ‘offences’ (penalties):-
1. Distribution of Leaflets (five dozen lashes applied to the bare bottom of the offender – to be administered by ‘Maazi NCO’)
2. Aggravated Distribution of Leaflets (ten dozen lashes …)
3. Promoting the Distribution of Leaflets (three dozen lashes …)
4. Failure to report the Distribution of Leaflets (two dozen lashes …)
5. Distribution of Leaflets in a foreign country (Scott Lively administers the appropriate number of lashes under a contract with the Ugandan Ministry of the Interior)
6. Campaigning for the human rights of those engaged in the Distribution of Leaflets (Bryan Fischer smacks the bare bottom of the ‘offender’ with his bare hand under a contract with …)
Any other clauses? Andy – what d’you reckon? Could this a ‘winner’?
Well, Ugandans have always been fine when the deviants kept their inhuman stuff out of the public eye. However, this changed when the deviants decided to take their behaviour outdoors. Since 2005 gay sex militants under the control of the Euro-American Gay Lobby have been promoting their criminal behaviour through press conferences and radio interviews, demanding special dispensation to contravene the law.
Who are these Euro-American Gay lobbiest? Gay sex militantsReally? Conspiracy theory anyone? How dare them! You mean they want to live without fear! Who do they think they are. Some of the questions that were said about African-Americans during the Civil Rights Era. We as a nation promoted segregation and slavery and we did so by the same means that you in Ugandans are doing it now. Through self serving lies and propaganda.There was much to be gained by some for this type of hate mongering. What makes you think this is any different? Look at who benefits from this hate and you will find the true answers to what is going on in your country.
@ Andy
Correct – there is indeed no answer!
I take it that you are Ugandan? Yes? Well now – did you know that the latest survey* puts ‘anti-gay prejudice’ at around 75% (well down on the 95% that many anti-gay propagandist like to quote). A Per Forum survey conducted last year put the ‘anti-gay’ vote at 79%.
* Odoki Commission
@ ken
‘Maazi’ likes to talk about polygamy, but always misses the key jurisprudential point, of course (as usual)!
Under ‘western’ laws, all people are treated EQUALLY when it comes to bi- or polygamy, whereas ‘Maazi’ (and his ‘minders’?) advocate intrinsically DISCRIMINATORY laws whereby gay people are to be hunted down and punished for certain private consensual activities, while straight people are not.
@ ‘Maazi’
Why is my question silly? Surely laws are about behaviour? Why should one group of people be punished for behaviour for which another group is not punished? (I never mentioned ‘identity’.)
It is your answer that is, as usual, silly!
@ Andy
See what I mean?!
Maazi NCO# ~ Feb 18, 2011 at 6:13 pm
“My earlier post referred to the criminalization of consenting adult Mormons who enter into a polygamous marriage in the name of fighting the so-called “crime of bigamy”. ”
apparently your understanding of US law is no better than your understanding of sexual orientation. Polygamous religious marriage among adult mormons is not illegal in the US. The crime of bigamy would be if a person entered into multiple CIVIL marriages at the same time.
Yours is a stupid question that deserves no answer because there is no such thing as “gay” and “straight” identities. One either engages in sexual perversion or not. Those who engage in sexual perversion commit a crime in Uganda. It is as simple as that.
We will see how your fake punditry works out in the weeks ahead !! 🙂
@ ken
‘Maazi’ likes to talk about polygamy, but always misses the key jurisprudential point, of course (as usual)!
Under ‘western’ laws, all people are treated EQUALLY when it comes to bi- or polygamy, whereas ‘Maazi’ (and his ‘minders’?) advocate intrinsically DISCRIMINATORY laws whereby gay people are to be hunted down and punished for certain private consensual activities, while straight people are not.
@ ‘Maazi’
Why is my question silly? Surely laws are about behaviour? Why should one group of people be punished for behaviour for which another group is not punished? (I never mentioned ‘identity’.)
It is your answer that is, as usual, silly!
@ Andy
See what I mean?!
Maazi NCO# ~ Feb 18, 2011 at 6:13 pm
“My earlier post referred to the criminalization of consenting adult Mormons who enter into a polygamous marriage in the name of fighting the so-called “crime of bigamy”. ”
apparently your understanding of US law is no better than your understanding of sexual orientation. Polygamous religious marriage among adult mormons is not illegal in the US. The crime of bigamy would be if a person entered into multiple CIVIL marriages at the same time.
@ Andy
You are absolutely correct to point out that all attempts by both Ugandan and American extremists to show systematic ‘recruitment’ or abuse have come to nothing (remember the ‘George Oundo show’ – which Oundo himself now admits was pure fabrication). The late David Kato was accused of this, that and the other by the lovely* PK (that funny little ‘acolyte’ of PPP); again, nothing came of that …
As for ‘Maazi NCO’: I’ve repeatedly asked him on this blog what jurisprudential principles he cites for saying that gay people should be subject to criminal penalties for activities (such as consensual oral or anal intercourse) for which straight people are not to be hunted down and punished. I’ve never had a straight (excuse the pun) answer to that one, of course – only the ususal homophobic squawking.
* I’m being ironic here, of course!
These cables are quite old. Nothing in them really surprises me. Much has happened in the meantime.
I think UG’s rulers have more important things to worry about now. That said, I’m sure that some people will attempt to push the Bill before it dies in May.
@ Andy
You are absolutely correct to point out that all attempts by both Ugandan and American extremists to show systematic ‘recruitment’ or abuse have come to nothing (remember the ‘George Oundo show’ – which Oundo himself now admits was pure fabrication). The late David Kato was accused of this, that and the other by the lovely* PK (that funny little ‘acolyte’ of PPP); again, nothing came of that …
As for ‘Maazi NCO’: I’ve repeatedly asked him on this blog what jurisprudential principles he cites for saying that gay people should be subject to criminal penalties for activities (such as consensual oral or anal intercourse) for which straight people are not to be hunted down and punished. I’ve never had a straight (excuse the pun) answer to that one, of course – only the ususal homophobic squawking.
* I’m being ironic here, of course!
These cables are quite old. Nothing in them really surprises me. Much has happened in the meantime.
I think UG’s rulers have more important things to worry about now. That said, I’m sure that some people will attempt to push the Bill before it dies in May.
You are just repeating nonsense from your country’s media. Gayism is Un-African, decadent and inhuman. Ugandans do not need a bunch of American Christian Fundamentalists to understand what gayism is all about.
I guess you believe it it ranks right up there with witch craft; and many other forms of superstition. Gayism might be Un-African but killing innocent people and children seem to be a priority in Africa. I for one would like to see this so called proof of Gay recruitment.Its all a bunch of crap. None has ever been produced even though Bahati keeps claiming it to be true and stating he has evidence. If there is proof he should release it and let the world judge. He want release it because none exsist. Talk about nonsense!
Stop misrepresenting my comments. I did not say that women or religion was criminalized in the USA. My earlier post referred to the criminalization of consenting adult Mormons who enter into a polygamous marriage in the name of fighting the so-called “crime of bigamy”. I also spoke of the criminalization of incest in between consenting adults in Germany. Why not go to Berlin to campaign against the German State’s violation of the “human rights” of brothers and sisters in “love” with each other?
I consider them to be a joke as well. So what’s your point?
You are just repeating nonsense from your country’s media. Gayism is Un-African, decadent and inhuman. Ugandans do not need a bunch of American Christian Fundamentalists to understand what gayism is all about.
You are just repeating nonsense from your country’s media. Gayism is Un-African, decadent and inhuman. Ugandans do not need a bunch of American Christian Fundamentalists to understand what gayism is all about.
I guess you believe it it ranks right up there with witch craft; and many other forms of superstition. Gayism might be Un-African but killing innocent people and children seem to be a priority in Africa. I for one would like to see this so called proof of Gay recruitment.Its all a bunch of crap. None has ever been produced even though Bahati keeps claiming it to be true and stating he has evidence. If there is proof he should release it and let the world judge. He want release it because none exsist. Talk about nonsense!
Stop misrepresenting my comments. I did not say that women or religion was criminalized in the USA. My earlier post referred to the criminalization of consenting adult Mormons who enter into a polygamous marriage in the name of fighting the so-called “crime of bigamy”. I also spoke of the criminalization of incest in between consenting adults in Germany. Why not go to Berlin to campaign against the German State’s violation of the “human rights” of brothers and sisters in “love” with each other?
I consider them to be a joke as well. So what’s your point?
You are just repeating nonsense from your country’s media. Gayism is Un-African, decadent and inhuman. Ugandans do not need a bunch of American Christian Fundamentalists to understand what gayism is all about.
Of course, using your gay propagandist logic, we could argue that the United States Government is descending to fascism for criminalizing a minority of its religious Mormon men and women who—out of their own free will—decided to engage in polygamy (a.k.a “bigamy)
except that no one in the United States is criminalizing the Morman religion or women. No one is speading lies or propaganda about them or stirring up hate. (no one anybody takes seriously). And of course we in the U.S. are not scape goating them or calling for them to be excuted. The group of Americans that spread the gay propaganda in your country are considered a joke here in the United States. Scott Lively and others spread their hate in Uganda because no one takes them seriously here.
gayuganda,
Maazi, of course.
Well, I could argue that the first step back to Nazism in Germany is its criminalization of a minority of its citizens who engage in incest. There was one particular case in Germany a few years ago where a brother and sister who sired children together landed in jail. I don’t remember western NGOs screaming “human rights violation !!!”. Of course, using your gay propagandist logic, we could argue that the United States Government is descending to fascism for criminalizing a minority of its religious Mormon men and women who—out of their own free will—decided to engage in polygamy (a.k.a “bigamy”).
After all, you and the Westerners who passionately back your depraved lifestyle share the same vested interests on subverting the sex crime laws of Uganda.
The first step in Dictatorship is persecution of unprotected minority. Find a scapecoat and try to unite the masses through propaganda. Who’s next the opposition party?
Of course, using your gay propagandist logic, we could argue that the United States Government is descending to fascism for criminalizing a minority of its religious Mormon men and women who—out of their own free will—decided to engage in polygamy (a.k.a “bigamy)
except that no one in the United States is criminalizing the Morman religion or women. No one is speading lies or propaganda about them or stirring up hate. (no one anybody takes seriously). And of course we in the U.S. are not scape goating them or calling for them to be excuted. The group of Americans that spread the gay propaganda in your country are considered a joke here in the United States. Scott Lively and others spread their hate in Uganda because no one takes them seriously here.
gayuganda,
Maazi, of course.
Perhaps Ambassador Lanier should employ you to review the draft of his future “top secret” cables, before they are dispatched to the State Department. After all, you and the Westerners who passionately back your depraved lifestyle share the same vested interests on subverting the sex crime laws of Uganda.
Thank you all for the complements !!! I believe that post-February 2011 elections Uganda would be an interesting place and I think Ambassador Lanier should keep his pen and paper ready. There would be lots to tell Hillary and her State Department Officials 😀
Errr, Stephen…. kind of unclear-
l
Bahati? Or Maazi NCO?
the similarities are striking, to say the least.
Interesting actually.
I have lived these events. Is always interesting to know what others think of them. Kind of eye opening. For one who lives in Uganda and is a kuchu, this seems to be what normal life is. For one who is like me and starts fighting this perception of ‘normality’ and asserting that it is not ‘normal’, it is usually eye opening to see the contempt which is visited on people like Bahati and Ssempa in the bigger world out there. Eye opening. And, an affirmation that this ‘normality’ that we live is a huge anomaly.
And, by the way, in my perception, Bahati gained lots from his anti-homosexuality campaign. He is already into the next parliament, without opposition. [For some reason, after Bahati got lots of money for his ‘campaign’, his opponent resigned…
Bahati is the treasurer of the ruling party, which is awash in money…… LOL, has been kind of interesting to see and hear the scandals as taxpayers money was blatantly used to fund the MPs from the ruling party. And, Bahati would never have brought this bill to parliament without the go ahead of the man at the top. Bahati is flying high in his little environment.
Perhaps Ambassador Lanier should employ you to review the draft of his future “top secret” cables, before they are dispatched to the State Department. After all, you and the Westerners who passionately back your depraved lifestyle share the same vested interests on subverting the sex crime laws of Uganda.
Thank you all for the complements !!! I believe that post-February 2011 elections Uganda would be an interesting place and I think Ambassador Lanier should keep his pen and paper ready. There would be lots to tell Hillary and her State Department Officials 😀
Errr, Stephen…. kind of unclear-
l
Bahati? Or Maazi NCO?
the similarities are striking, to say the least.
Interesting actually.
I have lived these events. Is always interesting to know what others think of them. Kind of eye opening. For one who lives in Uganda and is a kuchu, this seems to be what normal life is. For one who is like me and starts fighting this perception of ‘normality’ and asserting that it is not ‘normal’, it is usually eye opening to see the contempt which is visited on people like Bahati and Ssempa in the bigger world out there. Eye opening. And, an affirmation that this ‘normality’ that we live is a huge anomaly.
And, by the way, in my perception, Bahati gained lots from his anti-homosexuality campaign. He is already into the next parliament, without opposition. [For some reason, after Bahati got lots of money for his ‘campaign’, his opponent resigned…
Bahati is the treasurer of the ruling party, which is awash in money…… LOL, has been kind of interesting to see and hear the scandals as taxpayers money was blatantly used to fund the MPs from the ruling party. And, Bahati would never have brought this bill to parliament without the go ahead of the man at the top. Bahati is flying high in his little environment.
Poor pathetic fool.
Very interesting, even with the censored names and phrases littered all over the “secret” cable. Ambassador Lanier is apparently a talented writer with a good pro-gay sense of imagination.
Having said that, I think it would be interesting to see his take on the XXXXXXXX after the February 2011 elections. XXXXXXXX knows that it is a matter of time before XXXXXX. The alterations will likely include XXXXXXXXX and retain XXXXXXX. Thereafter, the amended bill will XXXXXX and ensure that gayism is dealt with properly. XXXXXXXX will be needed. It is of the uttermost importance that XXXXXXX is maintained in a state of XXXXXX at this point in time. ——-MAAZI NCO
Poor pathetic fool.