Just a brief note. The hot ticket was in DC today where two rallies took place – Glenn Beck’s and Al Sharpton’s. As this article notes, two of the family of Martin Luther King spoke, one at each rally, on the anniversary of King’s “I have a dream” speech.
Reportedly, Beck said:
“America today begins to turn back to God.”
This resonates with Christians but I have to wonder, which God? Beck’s, who is Latter Day Saint, or Alveda King’s who is conserative Christian? Or Sarah Palin’s who was once blessed by Thomas Muthee, pentecostal advocate of the 7 Mountains Mandate?
This is a relevant question, and one which is raised by the events in DC. In 1963, Martin Luther King gave his speech. In 1963, Martin Luther King, had he worshiped Glenn Beck’s god, could not have been ordained to the LDS priesthood. It was not until 1978 that African-Americans were eligible for that status in the LDS church, important here and more so in the afterlife.
People will leave there fired up but for what? And to do what?
Dear Dr. E.WArren Throckmorton:
I don’t watch Fox News Channel anymore as I don’t have Cable nor have any interested to have Cable again, some comments need to be made with regard to your comment ‘This is a relevant question, and one which is raised by the events in DC. In 1963, Martin Luther King gave his speech. In 1963, Martin Luther King, had he worshiped Glenn Beck’s god, could not have been ordained to the LDS priesthood. It was not until 1978 that African-Americans were eligible for that status in the LDS church, important here and more so in the afterlife.’
Given that the LDS policies with regard to Blacks has changed since then, why dwell on what happened so long ago? The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints must be judged by what they’re doing today, not what they did during the 1970s.
BTW, it has been my observation that Mormons are educated people. There are Mormon lawyers, accountants, engineers, etc. A successful Mormon nuclear physicist who must be mentioned is Kirk F. Sorensen, who has gotten accolades for his work on Thorium, which he will eventually be used in nuclear power plants to generate energy & Thorium is better than Uranium.
Mormons (esp. Mormon men) can often speak more than 1 language. There are Mormon misisonaries who speak Korean, Chinese, Japanese, Spanish, Russian, German & other languages. If I’m not mistaken Mormon missionaries have also done work in Africa & you can be sure that there are Mormons who can speak an African language. Mormons often do have knowledge of other cultures.
Yes, the LDS has made bad decisions in the past, but so have other faiths. Please be just & view the LDS based on what they’re doing today, rather than discuss what they did so long ago, for the same reason as Hindus of today must not be judged for the practice of Suttee or Sati (widows committing suicide by throwing themselves on their husband’s funeral pyre) of the 17th Century. Finally, this poster isn’t Mormon & not even Christian.
I wear a religious symbol around my neck – that of the Invisible Pink Unicorn. I find it saves time explaining my beliefs.
Which are summarised in Matthew 22:39-40, and 1 Corinthians 13 and the four Zen vows of the Bodhisattva.
In my own words:
There’s too many sins not to commit some – but I’ll try not to anyway.
There’s too many people to help them all – but I’ll try to help them anyway.
There’s too many virtues to attain them all – but I’ll try to attain them anyway.
Perfection is impossible – But I’ll try to perfect everything anyway.
And while a single person is drowning, how can one leave the pool?
I’m also as spiritual as a brick.
.
Everyone has their own idea and concept of God and this is what should and must be respected. Many years ago, I remember one time when I offered a crucifix to a friend from Puerto Rico and he was very insulted. Yes, he was a practicing Catholic, but, he said that his Jesus is much darker! and his hair is different! So, now I am much more sensitive to other’s concepts of God. If we start nitpicking about theological differences, rather than what we have in common, we will never have peace among us. Those at Beck’s gathering were all believers in the montheistic God (with many differences in their belief systems), why can’t we just leave it at that and rejoice that that many people can gather in peace and worship and praise God at a time in this world that is so troubled? Our Founders made sure that we have the right to do this. Lynn, perhaps you and your friend missed some because, I counted many, many more blacks at Beck’s gathering than 27, at least a couple of hundred. Sort of a shame that the two gatherings (Sharpton and Beck) couldn’t manage to get together though, but maybe another time. This is what MLK would have wanted and spent his whole life doing, bringing people (everyone black and white and every other color in between) together, to pray together, work together for a better peacefull and better world and praise God allmighty.
This says a mouthful:
http://www.russellmoore.com/2010/08/29/god-the-gospel-and-glenn-beck/
Warren,
If you are going to take exception at Glenn about being LDS, I think he is also a recovering Alcoholic (God as you understand him….), does he attend AA. Pretty tolerant method of spiritual practice.
If you are right in your implication, that Beck and his religion are closet racists, the rally today is unforgivable.
Regarding Palin’s being bless by a 7 mountains advocate…don’t know what to say.
Any thoughts on Obama’s religious training? How sincere a follower of Rev. Wright’s beliefs do you reckon he was?
David,
Fairly well put 🙂
Not to mention the man who organized Washington DC civil rights march was Bayard Rustin, who would never be allowed into Beck’s LDS church as a out gay man. But I guess he was fine as a Quaker (I think that was his religion).
No doubt Beck will come up with his own voters guide for the elections in November (like he really needs one).
David: My point is not that he is LDS. He can be whatever makes sense to him. My issue is that the call back to god is vague and unspecific. The devil is in the details, as they say, and that may mean that our god isn’t.
Your comment about Obama makes my point. Is the call to god inclusive of rev. Wright’s god? I don’t think that is what Beck has in mind. Beck is saying that his new crusade is a god directed effort. Really? Is it? Again, I ask, which god?
Didn’t provide link for above quotes, sorry:
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2010/08/027120.php
I agree. Unfortunately, there are so many different ideas about what makes a citizenry “moral”.
I would go this too: Love God and your neighbor. But sadly, too many people of all political strains have very interesting ideas about whe “loving your neighbor” means.
More at Salon:
Clichés seem to important to people when they do not really want to voice what they don’t like.
…
Great Link Debbie, I would urge others to read it.
More on why Obama’s religious practice may be confusing:
Even though Christians have a long history of being oppressed, even by other Christians…and there is the rub; having mutually oppressed each other due to denominational issues, we have learned the oppressor lives inside each of us (except maybe Quakers). Oppression is about power; being a Christian doesn’t make you either a victim or a champion of the oppressed (by default).
But if you lived in El Salvador it would make more sense:
Warren,
In the current society, calls to turn back to God has to be vague and non-specific. If you would be more specific you resurrect the two headed beast of POLITICAL CORRECTNESS and DENOMINATIONAL SCHISM.
arggggggg!
Keep it mushy…then everyone can sing Kumbaya.
Particularly pathetic, Warren, is the way David Barton of WallBuilders justifies his deep involvement with Beck; I blogged about it here:
http://www.byron-harvey.com/2010/08/david-bartons-astonishingly-bad-apologetic-for-glenn-beck/
Look, I like Glenn Beck in a lot of ways, but while he claims to be a Christian, Mormonism is anything but. He certainly has every right to believe as he does; I have every right to denounce the substance of his beliefs. Put it this way: if Beck/Mormons are Christians, then I am not, and if I am, then they aren’t, because it’s impossible to believe mutually-exclusive things about Jesus and then claim that those mutually-exclusive things don’t matter (when many of them are, in fact, at the core of our faith).
That’s basically how I felt at the March on Washington in 1996! It can be a powerful thing to experience something like that with so many other like-minded people 😉
That’s basically how I felt at the March on Washington in 1996! It can be a powerful thing to experience something like that with so many other like-minded people 😉
A Black man’s view of the event:
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=38767
A Black man’s view of the event:
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=38767
It would be more appropriate to say that CERTAIN people are not recognizing his “version” of Christianity – because, obviously, many people do realize he is a Christian – he also isn’t all that vocal about his faith – he doesn’t constantly throw it in your face as it were
It would be more appropriate to say that CERTAIN people are not recognizing his “version” of Christianity – because, obviously, many people do realize he is a Christian – he also isn’t all that vocal about his faith – he doesn’t constantly throw it in your face as it were
Particularly pathetic, Warren, is the way David Barton of WallBuilders justifies his deep involvement with Beck; I blogged about it here:
http://www.byron-harvey.com/2010/08/david-bartons-astonishingly-bad-apologetic-for-glenn-beck/
Look, I like Glenn Beck in a lot of ways, but while he claims to be a Christian, Mormonism is anything but. He certainly has every right to believe as he does; I have every right to denounce the substance of his beliefs. Put it this way: if Beck/Mormons are Christians, then I am not, and if I am, then they aren’t, because it’s impossible to believe mutually-exclusive things about Jesus and then claim that those mutually-exclusive things don’t matter (when many of them are, in fact, at the core of our faith).
Didn’t provide link for above quotes, sorry:
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2010/08/027120.php
Great Link Debbie, I would urge others to read it.
More on why Obama’s religious practice may be confusing:
Even though Christians have a long history of being oppressed, even by other Christians…and there is the rub; having mutually oppressed each other due to denominational issues, we have learned the oppressor lives inside each of us (except maybe Quakers). Oppression is about power; being a Christian doesn’t make you either a victim or a champion of the oppressed (by default).
But if you lived in El Salvador it would make more sense:
Warren,
In the current society, calls to turn back to God has to be vague and non-specific. If you would be more specific you resurrect the two headed beast of POLITICAL CORRECTNESS and DENOMINATIONAL SCHISM.
arggggggg!
Keep it mushy…then everyone can sing Kumbaya.
Timothy Kincaid – those who follow the Invisible Pink Unicorn – the only True Deity (of course) – think that loving God is redundant, as by loving your neighbour, that’s what you do.
We don’t always succeed in living up to our ideals, of course. All that is required is that we make an effort. A real one, not pretend or for show.
That’s where we differ from most other religions: Faith is un-necessary, good works are. Not even works, just good acts, and the ability to recognise that we’re fallible, and that others are too. That’s no excuse for not being kind to them, even unreasonably kind.
One cent, given by someone who has little, is worth more than a million from someone rich; and kindness to those who are unkind is worth far more than kindness to someone who treats you kindly. But both are necessary. We are our brothers’ keepers, even of said brother is unbearably obnoxious.
It’s a particularly useful set of beliefs for those who believe, rightly or wrongly, that they’ve been given the rough end of Life’s big pineapple. It stops us from getting all bitter and twisted because of it.
As such, it’s really good for those born Intersexed, usually sterile, often unable to have sex, and almost universally reviled and persecuted as perverts and freaks.
Unfortunately, we’re not supposed to feel smug about how good we are, but to reflect on how far short of perfection we fall, and how much worse many others have it. That rather spoils the fun, and means we can’t get any enjoyment out of seeing the Evil get their comeuppance. Quite the contrary.
Timothy Kincaid – those who follow the Invisible Pink Unicorn – the only True Deity (of course) – think that loving God is redundant, as by loving your neighbour, that’s what you do.
We don’t always succeed in living up to our ideals, of course. All that is required is that we make an effort. A real one, not pretend or for show.
That’s where we differ from most other religions: Faith is un-necessary, good works are. Not even works, just good acts, and the ability to recognise that we’re fallible, and that others are too. That’s no excuse for not being kind to them, even unreasonably kind.
One cent, given by someone who has little, is worth more than a million from someone rich; and kindness to those who are unkind is worth far more than kindness to someone who treats you kindly. But both are necessary. We are our brothers’ keepers, even of said brother is unbearably obnoxious.
It’s a particularly useful set of beliefs for those who believe, rightly or wrongly, that they’ve been given the rough end of Life’s big pineapple. It stops us from getting all bitter and twisted because of it.
As such, it’s really good for those born Intersexed, usually sterile, often unable to have sex, and almost universally reviled and persecuted as perverts and freaks.
Unfortunately, we’re not supposed to feel smug about how good we are, but to reflect on how far short of perfection we fall, and how much worse many others have it. That rather spoils the fun, and means we can’t get any enjoyment out of seeing the Evil get their comeuppance. Quite the contrary.
I agree. Unfortunately, there are so many different ideas about what makes a citizenry “moral”.
I would go this too: Love God and your neighbor. But sadly, too many people of all political strains have very interesting ideas about whe “loving your neighbor” means.
Dear Dr. E.WArren Throckmorton:
I don’t watch Fox News Channel anymore as I don’t have Cable nor have any interested to have Cable again, some comments need to be made with regard to your comment ‘This is a relevant question, and one which is raised by the events in DC. In 1963, Martin Luther King gave his speech. In 1963, Martin Luther King, had he worshiped Glenn Beck’s god, could not have been ordained to the LDS priesthood. It was not until 1978 that African-Americans were eligible for that status in the LDS church, important here and more so in the afterlife.’
Given that the LDS policies with regard to Blacks has changed since then, why dwell on what happened so long ago? The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints must be judged by what they’re doing today, not what they did during the 1970s.
BTW, it has been my observation that Mormons are educated people. There are Mormon lawyers, accountants, engineers, etc. A successful Mormon nuclear physicist who must be mentioned is Kirk F. Sorensen, who has gotten accolades for his work on Thorium, which he will eventually be used in nuclear power plants to generate energy & Thorium is better than Uranium.
Mormons (esp. Mormon men) can often speak more than 1 language. There are Mormon misisonaries who speak Korean, Chinese, Japanese, Spanish, Russian, German & other languages. If I’m not mistaken Mormon missionaries have also done work in Africa & you can be sure that there are Mormons who can speak an African language. Mormons often do have knowledge of other cultures.
Yes, the LDS has made bad decisions in the past, but so have other faiths. Please be just & view the LDS based on what they’re doing today, rather than discuss what they did so long ago, for the same reason as Hindus of today must not be judged for the practice of Suttee or Sati (widows committing suicide by throwing themselves on their husband’s funeral pyre) of the 17th Century. Finally, this poster isn’t Mormon & not even Christian.
This says a mouthful:
http://www.russellmoore.com/2010/08/29/god-the-gospel-and-glenn-beck/
David,
Fairly well put 🙂
David: My point is not that he is LDS. He can be whatever makes sense to him. My issue is that the call back to god is vague and unspecific. The devil is in the details, as they say, and that may mean that our god isn’t.
Your comment about Obama makes my point. Is the call to god inclusive of rev. Wright’s god? I don’t think that is what Beck has in mind. Beck is saying that his new crusade is a god directed effort. Really? Is it? Again, I ask, which god?
Warren,
If you are going to take exception at Glenn about being LDS, I think he is also a recovering Alcoholic (God as you understand him….), does he attend AA. Pretty tolerant method of spiritual practice.
If you are right in your implication, that Beck and his religion are closet racists, the rally today is unforgivable.
Regarding Palin’s being bless by a 7 mountains advocate…don’t know what to say.
Any thoughts on Obama’s religious training? How sincere a follower of Rev. Wright’s beliefs do you reckon he was?
Thanks Zoe…
and
The moral quality of our citizenry makes us much easier to govern. The more immoral we are, the more difficult we are to govern.
I think Washington and Adams both mentioned explicitly that this democracy requires the moral maturity of its citizens in order to function.
Democrats seek to curb the immoral behavior of the majority and the powerful.
Republicans seek to curb the immoral behavior of the government and the self-indulgent….
That was fun to write.
:).
About all we can agree on is Love God and your neighbor.
Thanks Zoe…
and
The moral quality of our citizenry makes us much easier to govern. The more immoral we are, the more difficult we are to govern.
I think Washington and Adams both mentioned explicitly that this democracy requires the moral maturity of its citizens in order to function.
Democrats seek to curb the immoral behavior of the majority and the powerful.
Republicans seek to curb the immoral behavior of the government and the self-indulgent….
That was fun to write.
:).
About all we can agree on is Love God and your neighbor.
I wear a religious symbol around my neck – that of the Invisible Pink Unicorn. I find it saves time explaining my beliefs.
Which are summarised in Matthew 22:39-40, and 1 Corinthians 13 and the four Zen vows of the Bodhisattva.
In my own words:
There’s too many sins not to commit some – but I’ll try not to anyway.
There’s too many people to help them all – but I’ll try to help them anyway.
There’s too many virtues to attain them all – but I’ll try to attain them anyway.
Perfection is impossible – But I’ll try to perfect everything anyway.
And while a single person is drowning, how can one leave the pool?
I’m also as spiritual as a brick.
.
Everyone has their own idea and concept of God and this is what should and must be respected. Many years ago, I remember one time when I offered a crucifix to a friend from Puerto Rico and he was very insulted. Yes, he was a practicing Catholic, but, he said that his Jesus is much darker! and his hair is different! So, now I am much more sensitive to other’s concepts of God. If we start nitpicking about theological differences, rather than what we have in common, we will never have peace among us. Those at Beck’s gathering were all believers in the montheistic God (with many differences in their belief systems), why can’t we just leave it at that and rejoice that that many people can gather in peace and worship and praise God at a time in this world that is so troubled? Our Founders made sure that we have the right to do this. Lynn, perhaps you and your friend missed some because, I counted many, many more blacks at Beck’s gathering than 27, at least a couple of hundred. Sort of a shame that the two gatherings (Sharpton and Beck) couldn’t manage to get together though, but maybe another time. This is what MLK would have wanted and spent his whole life doing, bringing people (everyone black and white and every other color in between) together, to pray together, work together for a better peacefull and better world and praise God allmighty.
More at Salon:
Clichés seem to important to people when they do not really want to voice what they don’t like.
…
Not to mention the man who organized Washington DC civil rights march was Bayard Rustin, who would never be allowed into Beck’s LDS church as a out gay man. But I guess he was fine as a Quaker (I think that was his religion).
No doubt Beck will come up with his own voters guide for the elections in November (like he really needs one).
I wonder what are the demographics of his core audience. I am afraid of people like him – who raise themselves up through their own volition to be representatives of God.
I wonder what are the demographics of his core audience. I am afraid of people like him – who raise themselves up through their own volition to be representatives of God.