Bryan Fischer: Now let’s ban the mosques

The American Family Association has become scary. There I said it.

At one point, I presented facts to the AFA correcting a report from their information source, OneNewsNow, about the American Psychological Association’s task force report on sexual orientation but their reporter hung up on me. I was allowed to rebut some criticism aimed my way which they published as hearsay, but the damage was done. But these are minor problems compared to where Bryan Fischer has taken the group.

I have discussed Fischer’s views before (biblical law, gay nazis) and I suspect will again. Here is one that is really troubling from a group that claims to uphold religious freedom. From Fischer’s blog post, No More Mosques, Period:

Permits should not be granted to build even one more mosque in the United States of America, let alone the monstrosity planned for Ground Zero. This is for one simple reason: each Islamic mosque is dedicated to the overthrow of the American government.

You have to read the rest to grasp the concept. Fischer, fronting an ostensibly Christian group, calls for the coercive power of the state to limit the freedom of expression of Islam. When Islamic nations call for restrictions on Christianity, we rightly criticize them. Well, what about this?

Of course, any group, Islamic, Christian, atheist, gay or straight, who plots rebellion against the government should be investigated and stopped. If there is evidence that a mosque is really a front for terror then make the case and take action. However, in the most obvious of ironies, Fischer wants the government to violate the Constitution with his plan to restrict Islam. Freedoms of religion, association and speech are freedoms we want to protect, right?

Amy Ritter at Hot Air tossed a nurf ball at Fischer and the AFA. She is worried about Fischer declaring his idea in the name of conservatism. I am more concerned about what is coming out of the AFA being considered Christian.

Update: Quickly, I note that another AFA writer criticized Fischer’s stance the next day. That’s nice. However, it still is deeply troubling that someone in leadership at AFA has a platform to call for the undermining of the Constitution in the name of conservatism and Christianity.

Note: Been away for a spell, might be back at it more next week.

35 thoughts on “Bryan Fischer: Now let’s ban the mosques”

  1. Zoe – Thanks. And thanks for the news on Scott Lively’s potential aspirations. I hope he runs, there will be some real entertainment in that.

  2. One of the wonderful things about this process, and I mean wonderful, is how it highlights the difference between being a Christian within a culture and being a Christian who determines culture.

    During my early Christian years it gave me great comfort that (as an adolescent) my Christian elders either knew how the world was put together, or knew “how to make it right.”

    Those Christians, in retrospect, appear to have had Dominionist motivations.

    Embracing our vulnerability, to the point of Christ’s example, seems the more Christian act.

    Thanks Warren and others, for moving me in that direction.

  3. Nutty stuff. I wonder if there are any rights Mr. Fischer would not be willing to give away in the name of security…

  4. So it boils down to religious liberty only for certain religions? Thank you for bringing this to my attention Warren.

  5. David: It has been quite a journey. I started out thinking salt and light meant warring in the culture war. Now I think much differently. And as I do, I am remembering some of my initial hesitations and reservations about taking the turn I did in about 1998-2000. Anyway, quite a ride…

  6. Ken, thanks for replying-incl. the information on Toyota doing business in China. It seems Ken that you may have misunderstood both of my posts-if you read my 2nd post which is elaborated. In my posts, it is made clear that this poster has mixed views on the mosque & is if anything neutral on this. If I were in NYC, I wouldn’t protest the mosque but I also wouldn’t rally in favor of building the mosque. If the Muslims or Moslems want to build the mosque or Islamic Education Center near Ground Zero, then I’ll support their legal right to do so & Ken, please read my subsequent post of Aug. 25th @ 8:28 a.m. where I clarify my position. I would be against a law forbidding construction of the mosque, as I believe in freedom of religion.

    But Ken have you ever visited India ? If you have, what can be said is that if you that If you talk to Indians-both Hindus & Muslims, they’ll often say that the topic of building the mosque near Ground Zero is a common controversy there. Hindus & Muslims (or Moslems) have killed eachother in religious conflicts & quite often there are disputes over whether to build a Hindu temple in a largely Moslem neighborhood or to build a mosque in a largely Muslim neighborhood. For the most part, Hindus & Muslims don’t fight & kill eachother & live in peace though with distrust, however many Hindus don’t want mosques in their neighborhoods & many Muslims don’t want Hindu temples in their neighborhoods. That conflict has been going on for centuries.

    If any1 has been to Israel, would it be right in saying that like India, Israel also has the same disputes over synagogues in largely Muslim neighborhoods (most Palestinians are Muslim) & mosques in Jewish neighborhoods-as Israel is mainly Jewish? As you can see Ken, the conflict over mosques is worldwide as it happens in India & Israel commonly esp. India, but the reason we’re seeing it in New York City is because there are more Muslims in the U.S. & thus more of the religious conflict.

    Finally, Ken, I’ve been on record on other posts as defending the right of Muslim or Moslem women to wear veils-burkas or Hijab if they do so on their own free will & have criticized nations which are trying to make it a crime for a woman to wear a veil or burka or Hijab. If a woman wants to wear a veil on her own free will, then it’s not our place to tell her that she can’t wear 1. Also, there are non-Muslim women who’ll wear veils for fashion reasons (though in the minority) just as there are non-Indian women who’ll wear the Sari. Your thoughts are welcome & as you can see this controversy extends to small things such as the veils.

  7. coldweatherisfun# ~ Aug 23, 2010 at 10:23 am

    “but as asked, can’t they build it somewhere else in Manhattan & New York City?”

    And why should they? I see this question in the same tone as a white community asking a black family not to move into their neighorhood. “Well, legally we can’t stop you from moving in, but why don’t you just live somewhere else?”

    You are condemning all muslims based on the actions of a few. This same attitude is why japanese (including US citizens) where rounded up into concentration camps during WWII. All of you who are opposed to this center, have any of you stopped to consider the message you are sending to muslims when you say “Not here!” How do you think muslims, who condemn the attacks on 9/11 as an affront to their religion (rather than an example of it), feel when you tell them they can’t be near ground-zero?

    “I’ll be visiting China from Sept. 4th to the 13th, so I’ll learn if many Chinese people would be willing to drive a Japanese car given China & Japan’s long turbulent history.”

    While you are there maybe you could visit one of the toyota factories (there are at least 4). According to Bloomberg News, Toyota expects to sell 800,000 vehicles in China this year, and expects a 10% growth for next year.

    “It’s their legal right to build the mosque, but as some have wondered, could this mosque be a Madrassa? In the mosque, could they be preaching the views which drove the terrorists to attack us on 9-11-2001?”

    So you think that if terrorists who plan on perverting the Qu’ran to train other terrorists/suicide bombers where to set up a training school, they would do it in the one place that was certain to garner this much attention? Personally, I would hope that all terrorists would be that stupid.

  8. Ken, thanks for replying-incl. the information on Toyota doing business in China. It seems Ken that you may have misunderstood both of my posts-if you read my 2nd post which is elaborated. In my posts, it is made clear that this poster has mixed views on the mosque & is if anything neutral on this. If I were in NYC, I wouldn’t protest the mosque but I also wouldn’t rally in favor of building the mosque. If the Muslims or Moslems want to build the mosque or Islamic Education Center near Ground Zero, then I’ll support their legal right to do so & Ken, please read my subsequent post of Aug. 25th @ 8:28 a.m. where I clarify my position. I would be against a law forbidding construction of the mosque, as I believe in freedom of religion.

    But Ken have you ever visited India ? If you have, what can be said is that if you that If you talk to Indians-both Hindus & Muslims, they’ll often say that the topic of building the mosque near Ground Zero is a common controversy there. Hindus & Muslims (or Moslems) have killed eachother in religious conflicts & quite often there are disputes over whether to build a Hindu temple in a largely Moslem neighborhood or to build a mosque in a largely Muslim neighborhood. For the most part, Hindus & Muslims don’t fight & kill eachother & live in peace though with distrust, however many Hindus don’t want mosques in their neighborhoods & many Muslims don’t want Hindu temples in their neighborhoods. That conflict has been going on for centuries.

    If any1 has been to Israel, would it be right in saying that like India, Israel also has the same disputes over synagogues in largely Muslim neighborhoods (most Palestinians are Muslim) & mosques in Jewish neighborhoods-as Israel is mainly Jewish? As you can see Ken, the conflict over mosques is worldwide as it happens in India & Israel commonly esp. India, but the reason we’re seeing it in New York City is because there are more Muslims in the U.S. & thus more of the religious conflict.

    Finally, Ken, I’ve been on record on other posts as defending the right of Muslim or Moslem women to wear veils-burkas or Hijab if they do so on their own free will & have criticized nations which are trying to make it a crime for a woman to wear a veil or burka or Hijab. If a woman wants to wear a veil on her own free will, then it’s not our place to tell her that she can’t wear 1. Also, there are non-Muslim women who’ll wear veils for fashion reasons (though in the minority) just as there are non-Indian women who’ll wear the Sari. Your thoughts are welcome & as you can see this controversy extends to small things such as the veils.

  9. coldweatherisfun# ~ Aug 23, 2010 at 10:23 am

    “but as asked, can’t they build it somewhere else in Manhattan & New York City?”

    And why should they? I see this question in the same tone as a white community asking a black family not to move into their neighorhood. “Well, legally we can’t stop you from moving in, but why don’t you just live somewhere else?”

    You are condemning all muslims based on the actions of a few. This same attitude is why japanese (including US citizens) where rounded up into concentration camps during WWII. All of you who are opposed to this center, have any of you stopped to consider the message you are sending to muslims when you say “Not here!” How do you think muslims, who condemn the attacks on 9/11 as an affront to their religion (rather than an example of it), feel when you tell them they can’t be near ground-zero?

    “I’ll be visiting China from Sept. 4th to the 13th, so I’ll learn if many Chinese people would be willing to drive a Japanese car given China & Japan’s long turbulent history.”

    While you are there maybe you could visit one of the toyota factories (there are at least 4). According to Bloomberg News, Toyota expects to sell 800,000 vehicles in China this year, and expects a 10% growth for next year.

    “It’s their legal right to build the mosque, but as some have wondered, could this mosque be a Madrassa? In the mosque, could they be preaching the views which drove the terrorists to attack us on 9-11-2001?”

    So you think that if terrorists who plan on perverting the Qu’ran to train other terrorists/suicide bombers where to set up a training school, they would do it in the one place that was certain to garner this much attention? Personally, I would hope that all terrorists would be that stupid.

  10. Thanks Dr. E.Warren Throckmorton for allowing my post. Some other thoughts to the mosque, because as already mentioned it extends beyond the U.S. & to elaborate. Here in the U.S., there is controversy over building a mosque-actually a Muslim education center near Ground Zero. Polls have shown that most Americans are hostile to building a mosque near the site of the 9-11 attacks & wonder what the Iman’s intentions are.

    Perhaps the Iman’s intentions are to be noble as well-to show the people of NYC that Muslims or Moslems are people like every1 else & they built the mosque near the site of Ground Zero to educate people that they are ordinary people & that they empathize with those killed on the 9-11-2001 terrorist attacks. An argument that the Imans could make to support building the mosque would be to discuss India & the Hindu-Moslem conflicts there. In India, both Hindu temples & mosques are built in sites where Hindus & Moslems or Muslims have killed eachother in riots. What the Imans will say to justify their decision to build the mosque near Ground Zero is that the New Yorkers are engaging in collective guilt by saying that because it’s a mosque, the Muslims who pray there must be supporters of those who attacked us on 9-11.

    The Imans would also use the eg. I gave earlier of German & Japanese car dealerships running in neighborhoods which have large #s of Jewish Holocaust survivors or Chinese, Filipinos, Koreans & other Asians who lost relatives during WW2. They would say that just as it’s wrong to blame & collectively execute all Germans & Japanese for what the Nazis & the Imperialists did during WW2, it’s wrong to collectively blame all Muslims for what the 9-11 terrorists did.

    Yes, people must be humble & watch if any illegal activities happen in the mosque, such as if it’s a front for terrorists. But the mosque in & of itself isn’t illegal. Synonymously, the same thing can be said about Iran’s nuclear program. I support nuclear powerplants for energy & support Iran’s right to use nuclear power for energy purposes only. As with the mosques, the concern has been made about Iran building atomic weapons. This we must watch. If Iran is building nuclear power for energy purposes only ,then that is fine. If Iran is making atomic weapons, then we must be concerned & so far there hasn’t been definite evidence of Iran building nuclear weapons though more proof could surface. Again, as with the synonyms mentioned here, from a legal standpoint, if the Muslims wish to build a mosque near Ground Zero, then let them do so. If evidence or proof surfaces that something illegal is happening, then we’ll take action. As long as there are no illegal activities associated with the mosque & so far no reliable proof has surfaced of this, let the construction of the mosque continue even if we don’t believe that it’s morally right to build the mosque near Ground Zero, because that’s what freedom of religion is about. Those are my elaborated thoughts.

  11. Thanks Dr. E.Warren Throckmorton for allowing my post. Some other thoughts to the mosque, because as already mentioned it extends beyond the U.S. & to elaborate. Here in the U.S., there is controversy over building a mosque-actually a Muslim education center near Ground Zero. Polls have shown that most Americans are hostile to building a mosque near the site of the 9-11 attacks & wonder what the Iman’s intentions are.

    Perhaps the Iman’s intentions are to be noble as well-to show the people of NYC that Muslims or Moslems are people like every1 else & they built the mosque near the site of Ground Zero to educate people that they are ordinary people & that they empathize with those killed on the 9-11-2001 terrorist attacks. An argument that the Imans could make to support building the mosque would be to discuss India & the Hindu-Moslem conflicts there. In India, both Hindu temples & mosques are built in sites where Hindus & Moslems or Muslims have killed eachother in riots. What the Imans will say to justify their decision to build the mosque near Ground Zero is that the New Yorkers are engaging in collective guilt by saying that because it’s a mosque, the Muslims who pray there must be supporters of those who attacked us on 9-11.

    The Imans would also use the eg. I gave earlier of German & Japanese car dealerships running in neighborhoods which have large #s of Jewish Holocaust survivors or Chinese, Filipinos, Koreans & other Asians who lost relatives during WW2. They would say that just as it’s wrong to blame & collectively execute all Germans & Japanese for what the Nazis & the Imperialists did during WW2, it’s wrong to collectively blame all Muslims for what the 9-11 terrorists did.

    Yes, people must be humble & watch if any illegal activities happen in the mosque, such as if it’s a front for terrorists. But the mosque in & of itself isn’t illegal. Synonymously, the same thing can be said about Iran’s nuclear program. I support nuclear powerplants for energy & support Iran’s right to use nuclear power for energy purposes only. As with the mosques, the concern has been made about Iran building atomic weapons. This we must watch. If Iran is building nuclear power for energy purposes only ,then that is fine. If Iran is making atomic weapons, then we must be concerned & so far there hasn’t been definite evidence of Iran building nuclear weapons though more proof could surface. Again, as with the synonyms mentioned here, from a legal standpoint, if the Muslims wish to build a mosque near Ground Zero, then let them do so. If evidence or proof surfaces that something illegal is happening, then we’ll take action. As long as there are no illegal activities associated with the mosque & so far no reliable proof has surfaced of this, let the construction of the mosque continue even if we don’t believe that it’s morally right to build the mosque near Ground Zero, because that’s what freedom of religion is about. Those are my elaborated thoughts.

  12. Mixed views With regard to building the mosques near Ground Zero. Legally yes, the Iman’s have free religion right to build the mosque, but as asked, can’t they build it somewhere else in Manhattan & New York City?

    A synonym here is what if Porsche, Volkswagen or any other German auto-maker decided to run a German car dealership in a neighborhood which has a high number of Jewish Holocaust survivors? Or what if Toyota, Honda or any other Japanese auto-maker decided to sell Japanese cars with a large # of Chinese who had lost relatives during WW2? Incidentally, I’ll be visiting China from Sept. 4th to the 13th, so I’ll learn if many Chinese people would be willing to drive a Japanese car given China & Japan’s long turbulent history. Would many Jewish people drive a German car?

    Getting back to the mosque, no, the Iman’s aren’t doing anything illegal. It’s their legal right to build the mosque, but as some have wondered, could this mosque be a Madrassa? In the mosque, could they be preaching the views which drove the terrorists to attack us on 9-11-2001? Most Muslims aren’t zealots, but Islam has been used to justify terrorism. In the Koran, there are verses which justify killing of those who refuse to convert to Islam & Islam was spread by the sword & wars whether it’s India (Hindu-Moslem or Muslim conflict) & there’s conflict between Islam & non-Muslims in nations such as Thailand & China.

  13. Mixed views With regard to building the mosques near Ground Zero. Legally yes, the Iman’s have free religion right to build the mosque, but as asked, can’t they build it somewhere else in Manhattan & New York City?

    A synonym here is what if Porsche, Volkswagen or any other German auto-maker decided to run a German car dealership in a neighborhood which has a high number of Jewish Holocaust survivors? Or what if Toyota, Honda or any other Japanese auto-maker decided to sell Japanese cars with a large # of Chinese who had lost relatives during WW2? Incidentally, I’ll be visiting China from Sept. 4th to the 13th, so I’ll learn if many Chinese people would be willing to drive a Japanese car given China & Japan’s long turbulent history. Would many Jewish people drive a German car?

    Getting back to the mosque, no, the Iman’s aren’t doing anything illegal. It’s their legal right to build the mosque, but as some have wondered, could this mosque be a Madrassa? In the mosque, could they be preaching the views which drove the terrorists to attack us on 9-11-2001? Most Muslims aren’t zealots, but Islam has been used to justify terrorism. In the Koran, there are verses which justify killing of those who refuse to convert to Islam & Islam was spread by the sword & wars whether it’s India (Hindu-Moslem or Muslim conflict) & there’s conflict between Islam & non-Muslims in nations such as Thailand & China.

  14. So it boils down to religious liberty only for certain religions? Thank you for bringing this to my attention Warren.

  15. Zoe – Thanks. And thanks for the news on Scott Lively’s potential aspirations. I hope he runs, there will be some real entertainment in that.

  16. David: It has been quite a journey. I started out thinking salt and light meant warring in the culture war. Now I think much differently. And as I do, I am remembering some of my initial hesitations and reservations about taking the turn I did in about 1998-2000. Anyway, quite a ride…

  17. No doubt some fanatic is going to threaten or actually carry out a tit for tat act. I understand the deep pain and anguish of those who lost loved ones in 9/11. But that was a few people not a whole religion of people. Where are we without the right to practice our religion and our liberties?

  18. No doubt some fanatic is going to threaten or actually carry out a tit for tat act. I understand the deep pain and anguish of those who lost loved ones in 9/11. But that was a few people not a whole religion of people. Where are we without the right to practice our religion and our liberties?

  19. One of the wonderful things about this process, and I mean wonderful, is how it highlights the difference between being a Christian within a culture and being a Christian who determines culture.

    During my early Christian years it gave me great comfort that (as an adolescent) my Christian elders either knew how the world was put together, or knew “how to make it right.”

    Those Christians, in retrospect, appear to have had Dominionist motivations.

    Embracing our vulnerability, to the point of Christ’s example, seems the more Christian act.

    Thanks Warren and others, for moving me in that direction.

  20. Islam wasn’t responsible for the the 9/11 attacks. Extreme religious fanaticism was.

    Given what Fisher has to say, I think it is pretty obvious why he wants to focus on Islam rather than religious fanaticism.

  21. Nutty stuff. I wonder if there are any rights Mr. Fischer would not be willing to give away in the name of security…

  22. Islam wasn’t responsible for the the 9/11 attacks. Extreme religious fanaticism was.

    Given what Fisher has to say, I think it is pretty obvious why he wants to focus on Islam rather than religious fanaticism.

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