Some responses to the Golden Rule pledge

I suggested on this blog that perhaps parents and students should consider pledging the Golden Rule on the upcoming Day of Silence instead of staying home as some very conservative groups have suggested. The response has been mixed. A facebook group has formed to promote the idea and some college groups are implementing the idea in a variety of ways. You can read more about that on this page.

Here are three recent assessments of the idea:

ExGayWatch, six11ministries, and Wayne Jacobsen’s Lifestream blog.

17 thoughts on “Some responses to the Golden Rule pledge”

  1. Dave G. Would you please explain CLEARLY what you mean when you say “In fact, you don’t HAVE to be gay at all! No one does.”?

    BEING gay and not ACTING on the attractions are two different things. I have been doing this work for over 30 years now. During that time, I have met ex-gays who don’t ACT on their homosexual attractions — but they still HAVE them. I know people who no longer CALL themselves gay — even though they (1) are not heterosexual, (2) have no attractions to women and (3) continue to have sexual/romanttic attractions ONLY towards men.

    I have met ex-gay men who no longer “identifiy” as gay — whatever that means — but they still masturbate to gay fantasies. I have met “former homosexuals” (like EXODUS VP Randy Thomas) who admit they meet the “secular definition” of “bisexual” and have ongoing “lust” towards both men and women. Alan Chambers, President of EXODUS, says he has to struggle daily against “that which comes naturally for him”. Truly straight men don’t struggle daily with gay feelings.

    They may not HAVE to ACT on their homosexual orientation, but it is still there. They are still gay. Even Joe Dallas of EXODUS admits this is true, explaining that “ex-gay” is “really just a convenient way of saying “a Christian WITH homosexual tendencies who would rather not HAVE those tendencies”.

  2. I think we should take a lesson from these Christians. When we hear of violence done to Christians we should not speak out and say that doing them violence is wrong. Nope, we should just talk about how everyone should sing kumbaya and get along, all the while making sure everyone knows how we hate Christians and make sure they are denied the same rights and privileges everyone else gets.

    That is truly a Christ-centered response. Thankfully, we have all these wonderful God-fearing Christians modeling that response for us. They truly are following the Great Commandments that Jesus taught.

  3. Dave G.

    Any efforts toward coercion, force, punishment, persecution, violence or harassment will prove counterproductive.

    You think?

  4. Dave G –

    With all due respect even many so-called “former homosexuals” are still gay. Saying no one HAS to be gay is not speaking the Truth – or do we need to bring in those who are Ex-Ex gay to tell us why.

  5. Christians are called to witness to God’s Truth –that’s what being a Christian means. But they can also witness non-vocally by displaying the simple message: “You don’t have to be gay to love one another. –In fact, you don’t HAVE to be gay at all! No one does.”

    Follow-up, if questions are asked, would be to engage in loving dialog, sharing the testimonies of former homosexuals who’ve “been there, done that; and it doesn’t work.” That, plus the message of a heavenly Father who never stops loving you, warns that certain behaviors have devastating consequences which can be avoided, and forgiveness is always available for anyone who wants to turn their lives around to following the Way of Christ Jesus. His Good News is that the reign of Love and Righteousness is the threshold of heaven –available to all of us sinners if we repent (turn our lives around to live a new life).

    Any efforts toward coercion, force, punishment, persecution, violence or harassment will prove counterproductive.

  6. It has been my observation that when a person can distinguish between a moral belief and a moral action, then they do not have the fear of doing what is right in the eyes of God. Too often people are caught up in a moral belief to realize that it is in fact interferring with doing what is morally right.

    Ann, very well said.

  7. To be frightened that you might be seen as pro-gay for specifically speaking out against the mistreatment of gays is nothing less than moral cowardice.

    Michael,

    It is perplexing that anyone could enmesh these two ideas together, but they do. It has been my observation that when a person can distinguish between a moral belief and a moral action, then they do not have the fear of doing what is right in the eyes of God. Too often people are caught up in a moral belief to realize that it is in fact interferring with doing what is morally right. Instead of using individual and critical thinking to discern the difference, they get caught up in the “noise” of others.

    This is a quote from Edmund Burke –

    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing”

  8. While I believe strongly in the Golden Rule, I am opposed to Warren’s idea because it is too general. It is all well and good to say that everyone should be treated well. But that’s not the point here. We are talking about specifically speaking out against anti-gay bullying or violence.

    If mentally retarded kids, or Christian kids, or handicapped kids were specificaly being targeted for bullying and violence — and if there were a long history of mistreatment of these groups — wouldn’t you specifically say: “Violence against these specific groups is wrong”? Would you keep your kids home? Would you suggest an “alternative?”

    I don’t think so,

  9. Timothy observed: “when it comes to anti-gay bullying, most conservative Churches actively oppose efforts to stop it and very few churches are willing to shame them with Scripture.

    Case in point: It took EXODUS more than a year (and a lot of nagging by me) to adopt even a wimpy “official” anti-hate/anti-violence/anti-bullying statement. Speaking out against Hate Crime laws was real easy. Officially taking a stand against the hate itself was not.

    And keep in mind that EXODUS is still affiliated with NARTH whose “expert advisor” (Berger) advises parents and teachers NOT to try to stop anti-gay teasing, ridiculing and bullying.

  10. jayhuck,

    I suspect that there are plenty of liberal Christians who “just don’t want to deal with it”. They aren’t going to beat on gays, but they won’t put much effort into speaking out against it.

    Yes, some do.

    But truly, Christianity as a whole was not there in the 80’s for AIDS. It was not there in the 60’s for blacks. It was not there in the 70’s for women. And it really isn’t there for gay rights now.

    Ultimately Christians tend to do the right thing.

    Churches did get around to opposing racial discrimination after a few led the fight and shamed the rest. And today even the most conservative Southern Baptist will preach that racial discrimination is contrary to the message of Christ.

    And most churches will agree that it is wrong to deny women the vote or to insist that they stay at home and not work. Most churches agree that paying women less for the same work as a man is not right.

    And liberal churches have come around on AIDS and want to be part of the solution rather than the problem. Some few conservative churches are willing to join them – as long as we are talking about AIDS in Africa and not AIDS in America.

    But only a small handful of churches are willing to stand up and say that discrimination against gay persons in employment is sin. Or that denying goods and services to gay people is contrary to the message of Christ.

    And when it comes to equal marriage treatment under the law, only a tiny handful believe in this so completely that they are willing to protest and speak up.

    And when it comes to anti-gay bullying, most conservative Churches actively oppose efforts to stop it and very few churches are willing to shame them with Scripture.

    So I have to disagree. I see a whole lot of Christians that will go out of their way not to be seen as TOO pro-gay and only a very very few who actually are willing to demonstrate that Christ commands that we treat gay people the way we want to be treated.

  11. I agree with you Michael – although the only Christians that I’m aware of that go out of their way not to be seen as pro-gay are most often of the conservative kind.

  12. No. All Christians — any Christian who would wimp out in this way. To be frightened that you might be seen as pro-gay for specifically speaking out against the mistreatment of gays is nothing less than moral cowardice.

  13. I agree with Nick on this one. I think it is downright cowardly of Christians not to specifically object to the mistreatment of gay people. They are wimping out because they don’t want anyone to think they are “pro-gay.They certainly would be specific if Christian Kids were being teased, ridiculed or beaten for their believing in Jesus, don’t you think?

  14. So long as you don’t actually have to verbally acknowledge that gays and lesbians are subject to violent physical, emotional, and verbal abuse everything will be ok – for Christians anyway. Jesus certainly wouldn’t have actually spoken out against discrimination or prejudice against the hated Samaritans, would he? No, of course not, he would have just told parables about the Good Pharisee who treated people the way he wanted to be treated. Jesus certainly wouldn’t have wanted to appear as if he actually approved of Samaritans or felt they should be treated with dignity and respect.

    God bless Christians – for without them, we wouldn’t know what hypocrisy meant.

  15. I particularly liked this quote from six11ministries assessment of the GRI:

    Why weren’t Christians the first to respond to this crisis … why are we always the last ones to show up?

    The question isn’t so much about Christians in general, as it is about certain groups of Conservative Christians. Almost everyone, including conservative Christians, know the Golden Rule – Why then did they institute the so-called Day of Truth rather than support a much-needed idea?

    I think the GRI is great – as long as both gay and straight Christians get involved, and as long as the message of the Day of Silence and the problem gay students face doesn’t get lost in the process.

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