Pregnant man

I figured I didn’t need any other title for this story. The story is now the number 2 topic of search on Yahoo.

A reader wondered why I had not posted this and the answer is mainly time limitations. This post is a drive-by as it is. While I guess Beatie’s experience is a first, given the attention surrounding the prenancy, it will not be the last I suspect.

At present, I just do not have words. So help me out…

36 thoughts on “Pregnant man”

  1. It should be pointed out that the God of the Bible does NOT “shun anyone but pure male/female heterosexuals”.

    Acts Chapter 8 tells the story of the Ethopian eunuch — a person who certainly would have been shunned in Old testament time, but whom Peter baptized. Deuteronomy 23:1 says, “No one who is emasculated or has his male organ cut off shall enter the assembly of the LORD.”

    Though he had traveled to Jerusalem to worship, he would have still been considered an outsider and foreigner and could not fully participate in the activities of the assembly. However, this would not be true in Christ, where all who come may have full participation and fellowship with God.

    Warren thinks that some gay folks like me might be “eunuchs from birth” — those who have no sexual interest at all in the opposite sex. If that is so, we did not learn or choose our sexual orientation. We were born than way.

    I agree with Warren that this may be true. The big difference is that Warren thinks I should always be celibate — and NEVER use the fully functioning sexual system — genitalia, hormones and drives — that God gave me. To me, that makes no sense at all. God also gave me eyes. Should I wear a blindfold? He gave me legs. Should I lie down and never move? .

  2. I have suspected now for a couple of years that intersexism is the lynchpin for the understanding of homosexuality — and its seeming immutability in the lives of Christians desperate to change. IOW the “Third Sex” concept may not be so anachronistic after all.

    And yes, folks are spot on that now intersexed people can no longer hide with the times in which we live. But barring the initial angst of that — perhaps that is a good thing for everyone: that the God of the Bible so interpreted to shun anyone but pure male/female heterosexuals, has a different framework for those He has brought in to existence.

    From my journey into ex-gay land, when those who were gay due to trauma of some kind were addressed, it left a large percentage of us who simply were “different” from other boys/girls growing up – long before any adolescent sex drive kicked in. Exodus acknowledges this, yet says it can be remedied, uh, repaired. And now the numbers have come out in the wash both with recent studies and ex-ex-gays coming out of the closet.

    If constitutionally gay people can view transsexuals and intersexuals as allies rather than enemies, real change can occur.

    And yes, I am well aware that medically I am neither truly, solely male nor female. Why is it such a reach to see that gay men and women can be phenotypically male or female and yet some kind of hardwiring *did* occur that renders them “not straight”?

    Why?…try one’s understanding of faith and God.

  3. Mary,

    Not exactly. Chimeraism is multiple sets of DNA. I only have one set of DNAas far as I know. I honestly can’t afford the test to see if its chimeraism, the chance of chimeraism is so low it’s not likely by sheer statistics.

    My moasicism most likely started by me being concieved of as XXY. After this, it diverged, cells try to correct itself sometimes essentially. Some drop an X, some drop a Y. This leads to my mixture.

    Chimeraism is literally merged twins, which as far as we know is not the case with me. Mosaicism is more common place than chimeraism, as far as we know anyway.

  4. Will this child receive mother’s milk or will they require a wet-nurse? It’s a shame science hasn’t developed a way to make the wife’s breasts lactate.

  5. Parthia,

    Just a question – hope it does not offend – if so let me know.

    Being a mosain – does that have some characteristics similar to chimerism??

  6. Jim Phelan – Considering he stopped taking hormones two years previously, as has already been mentioned, I think that your solicitous concerns can be put to rest.

    It’s not as if this is the first time something like this has happened without incident, again, as has already been mentioned.

    May I suggest you re-read the previous posts, then if you have any evidence that would contradict them, please let us know. It’s not as if we’re infallible. On the other hand, mere conjectures not backed by evidence aren’t very helpful. Maybe you could at least tell us the facts that led you to your opinions? We can then discuss matters in a rational way. Not merely stating unsubstantiated opinions, but elucidating substantiated ones.

  7. He said he wanted the gender role – “a man”, yet now wants the role of a woman “child bearing” – a huge incongruence. A huge disservice to society is when they call this “a man”. Hopefully, the hormones this person has consumed doesn’t have a negative effect on the child.

  8. Hi Parthia!

    There’s more of us than most people realise, isn’t there?

    Hope your condition doesn’t cause too many problems.

    One thing you may not know. 47xxy cells are selected against during cell turnover. That means someone 40%-46xx, 40%-47xxy and 20%-46xy will tend to look male initially, as 60% of cells are xy or xxy. But over time, this will change to 60%-46xx, 10%-47xxy, and 30%-46xy. That can lead to increased male fertility, with a general feminisation.

    That was thought to be the likely cause of my syndrome, but the blood Karyotype showed 46xy, to everyone’s astonishment. That just did not gel with what was happening somatically, let alone the hormone assays. Nearly 3 years later, we still don’t know exactly what’s going on. I’m seeing Prof A.Steinbeck again tomorrow for another assessment.

    In Australia, where I live, TS had been accepted as an IS condition since 2003. The same in Spain and a few other places.

    See this opinion from the Full Bench of the Australian Family Court:

    At paragraph [272]: ‘In my view the evidence demonstrates (at least on the balance of probabilities) that the characteristics of transsexuals are as much “biological” as those of people thought of as inter-sex’.

    So not proven absolutely, but on the balance of probabilities. That was in 2003, and the evidence in support continues to come in, with none against.

    “Radiologists can now confirm what transsexuals report – that they feel “trapped in the wrong body” – on the basis of the activation of the brain when presented with erotic stimuli. There is obviously a biological correlation with the subjective feelings.” – ArzteZeitung 2007

    Again, anecdotal evidence, but close on 50% of MtoF people I know have significant IS conditions in addition to being TS. The only Transman I know is also a mosaic, 90% 46xx, 10% 46xy. (+/- 5%)

    It would be nice to be allowed to merge into the woodwork and not make waves, as we historically have done. But we can’t, now.

  9. Marty,

    Transsexuality has not been proven to be soully mental or biological, just like homosexuality, the verdict has not been reached yet. There are so many transsexuals I know who later find out they have a some form of intersexism and/or hormonal anomalies that I cannot believe it is simply a coincidence. For example, I am a mosaic, I have XXY, XY AND XX chromosomes in my body.

    Every single FTM I knew in college had elevated testosterone levels (Without augmentation from injections mind you) or PCOS and any other number of conditions that can cause testosterone levels to be abnormally high in genetic women. I’ve yet to see a study of it, studying transsexualism is problematic because many of us just want to vanish and have no interest in being medical guinea pigs.

    My experience is just anecdotal, but the sheer number astounds me.

  10. Zoe (i know you’ll correct me if I’m wrong, and expand on my thoughts) is one of the truly “intersexed” who lives with a definite and medically diagnosed biological gender abnormality.

    I’m not sure that’s at all the case with Mr/s Beattie who, for all I can gather, is merely a healthy biological woman living as a transexual male. Pretty much a psychological condition — certainly nothing to diagnose medically. Ostensibly any of us could choose to live similarly, with the right hormone treatments.

    This is NOT the same as an “intersexed” condition, such as what Zoe has experienced.

    I think the difference (psychological vs medical) is well worth noting.

  11. It’s not even remotely the first case, or even the tenth.

    See Transparent, a 2005 documentary movie detailing 19 other cases.

    People who don’t specialise in the treatment of Transsexuality and/or Intersex conditions have no idea how many of us there are. Tens of thousands at the very least in the USA alone.

    We’ve usually tried to hide, but with the Real ID act, and the legislation resultant from the backlash against Gay Marriage, that’s no longer a good option. We no longer “slip between the cracks”.

    I’m my son’s biological father, despite being a “severely androgenised woman”. Fortunately, I live in far-off Australia, away from those Zealots who prefer that people like me don’t exist, and sometimes take action to see we don’t.

  12. I don’t know of any published accounts of it, because they kept it private, but I have a close friend who’s wife was sterile. Pretty much the same story, really. It’s not a new thing by any means, I think it even happened in the 90’s and maybe even 80’s before. It is new to the media, that is all. I will try to find some articles, but I am 100% this is by FAR not the first pregnant transsexual man.

    As for intersex conditions. If the biological mother takes any sort of hormone altering drug, or is exposed to any, the child could be made intersex as a result. If it is a male fetus and the biological mother comes in contact with say Propecia, a male pattern baldness drug, it will retard the male development of the fetus.

    If it is a female fetus, and there is testosterone exposure it will be masculinized by the testosterone.

    Remember, we all start female in the womb, hormones are what make us what we are, and genes are what tell your body to make this or that hormone. If you throw any sort of hormone externally into the system it can alter the dynamics in drastic ways.

    Thomas Beattie is well aware of this, thus discontinued all testosterone treatment long before getting pregnant.

  13. Pathia – Can you elaborate on the others who have had children – anything published on this?

    And can you say a bit more about testosterone and intersex conditions…

  14. 1.) He stopped testosterone therapy long before the pregnancy. Testosterone makes the menstrual cycle stop, he couldn’t get pregnant until after having stopped for several months. He did NOT start again afterwards during the pregnancy. It would lead to intersex conditions.

    2.) It is NOT the first female to male transsexual to have a baby post transtion. I know at least four of five instances of it. None of them sought media attention though, or wrote editorials in The Advocate.

  15. So what has “legal status as a man” have to do with Truth? As this culture goes out on a limb of “what I feel is what is real,” what are the implications for the next generation(s). Yes, I’m very concerned for the child –and its peers. Maybe our mental institutions should never have developed their out-patient programs.

  16. People may try to kill my baby

    “he feared for his own safety and admitted doctors had warned him his baby could be killed because of the revulsion at her birth.”

    A) Doctors allegedly warn pregnant transexual that people may kill his baby because they are revulsed by him and it.

    B) Send out press releases and go on Oprah.

    What the heck? If I believed that people wanted to harm me or my baby I’d go into hiding. My B.S. meter just went off the charts. 😎

  17. Thanks, Michael, that’s fair. BTW: If we do need a new term or label, how about ‘dissonant’? LOL. I’ve been mulling on that one for a few days. I see possibilities.

  18. Eddy: I know we have kicked this around endlessly, but at the risk of starting this thing all over again… You brought up “all the challenges to the term ‘ex-gay’ as being somehow dishonest since we still have attractions to some degree or other,”

    The hype has been the problem. The sloppy advertizing. The “overpromises”. It’s only dishonest if it’s dishonest. As long as you make it clear that you are not straight and that the “SSA” persists to some extent, I really don’t care what you call yourself.

  19. I wonder… If the man is legally considered a man (even though he still has all the essential parts of a woman), does that mean he and his wife are legally married? That puts an interesting take on the whole marriage debate.

  20. So the bearded lady gets pregnant and Oprah is suprised? Warren is speechless?

    Yawn… is there something interesting here?

  21. “I’m concerned about what effect the hormones will have on the unborn child.”

    That’s a good point and I would like to know if scientists have any clue to this. They’re the ones who made it possible for a woman to imitate a man; I would think they’d follow through with their research… That this child will be a social experiment is unfortunate to say the least.

  22. Drowssap,

    I was thinking the same thing – looking for a way to make the headlines and big money in interviews and appearances.

  23. LOL! I thought I’d check in one more time before heading out to karaoke. I thought I had forgotten about the blog while practicing but realized that I had decided to sing “God Bless The Child” and “I’m A Man”. (But I think it may be just coincidence. Judy wanted me to sing the former song last week but I had already promised a song to someone else; Paul, at work, was telling me I need to hear the latter through his new earbuds.) But, interesting nonetheless.

  24. I wonder what influence will her/his hormonal therapy have on the baby. Isn’t a mother’s pregnancy affected by that?

  25. Am I correct in concluding that they legally granted male status to this individual based only a radical double masectomy and some male hormones? I’m assuming if ‘he’ is going to be able to deliver this child, that ‘he’s’ still got a complete uterine system. I’m guessing that ‘even on the outside’, he’s still ‘a woman down there’. Otherwise we’ll also be giving new meaning to C-section.

    So, it begs the question: in the eyes of the law, what is a male?

    LOL! I think this one really threw me for a loop. When I think of all the challenges to the term ‘ex-gay’ as being somehow dishonest since we still have attractions to some degree or other, yet this person gets legal entitlement to the word ‘male’ while still possessing all the ‘essential’ female body parts.

    And, back to this reality, I look 3, 4, 5 and 6 years down the road, when this child will begin asking ‘where babies come from’ and ‘where did I come from’…or notices a pregnant woman and mommy or daddy/mommy explains that there’s a baby inside. At what age do you tell the child ‘you came out of daddy’s tummy’? I’m troubled that a child would learn of such sexual complexities at so early an age but lying about it when the child assumes they came out of the mommy belly doesn’t seem healthy either. This family will need to be well supported by concerned and caring friends to pull this off without throwing the child’s psyche off-kilter.

  26. The pregnant man made a very good point – that the desire to have one’s own child is not specific to women or men and so made a deliberate decision to keep his reproductive organs. I think it’s great. If he feels like a man but wants a biological child – go for it. And he has someone who loves him.

  27. Maybe this is a flashback from the future. She is married with another woman, she was artificially inseminated and she has a “stable male identity”. It’s customizable, it’s modern, it’s ambiguous, it’s proud, it’s transgressing, it’s based on desire, … It’s a sign of the time.

    ‘A woman with a beard and male ID is pregnant’ – that would not have made the headlines. But still, it’s interesting that the idea is floating around.

  28. If Throckmorton announced that he was pregnant…. THAT would be a big deal in the world of science. 😎

    The media is caught up in 100% silliness with this story. Call me cynical but my guess is that the pregnant “man” is looking for a payday and a book tour.

  29. She may be “legally male,” but neither a surgeon nor a lawyer can make her in reality anything other than female. As a reader of another blog pointed out, Beatie is a pregnant woman who thinks she is a man. I feel sorry for her and for the child she is carrying.

  30. Correct me if I’m wrong (I could be)

    A woman had her breasts removed and went through a round of hormone treatment. Today she is pregnant.

    The media is crazy. A woman is about to have a baby. From a scientific standpoint, big deal.

  31. McCitizen, you may wish to leave the diagnoses of mental illness to the professionals.

    Some athiests argue that belief in “an invisible magic man in the sky” is a sign of mental illness.

    Neither of you are correct and both of you show signs of animus and careless bigotry.

  32. Will she want to be called Dad or Mom? I’m concerned about what effect the hormones will have on the unborn child. This is a tragic story and I fear the child will suffer living with this mentally ill couple.

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