California court says parents must be credentialed to home school

Should home schooling parents have teaching degrees? A California court believes so. The transcript of the court ruling is linked in this Mercury News article.

Apparently, these parents thought they had their kids in an approved private school but the judges in this child abuse case thought otherwise.

My suspicion is that this ruling will not be sustained by higher courts.

31 thoughts on “California court says parents must be credentialed to home school”

  1. Marty –

    I could have been more though. I could have started earlier. I could have finished earlier. I could have been taking college level genetics instead of getting stoned between history classes that I could pass in my sleep….

    That may be true – I’m sure other kids have fallen through the cracks – as I said above, both public schooling and home schooling have disadvantages – for some more than others. Home schooling is definitely NOT a panacea

  2. David Roberts said in post 92021:

    So what’s really going on here is a warning against the black helicopters, evil government intervention. This the point at which I exit.

    No black helicopters or evil governments. I’m merely pointing out the realities of politics, something you seem to be unfamiliar with.

  3. Brief comment for jayhuck, who said:

    I think home schooling is fine, but all of my friends and myself came through the public school system just fine and are doing well in life.

    I was public schooled, and eventually, turned out “just fine”.

    But hindsight being 20/20? I should have been finished with that by age 16. When I think back to all the time i simply wasted — and was allowed to waste, while still earning B’s and C’s — before graduation… I should have been halfway through college by the time I finally graduated High School.

    What a waste… Yeah, I turned out fine… eventually. I could have been more though. I could have started earlier. I could have finished earlier. I could have been taking college level genetics instead of getting stoned between history classes that I could pass in my sleep….

  4. FWIW, we pulled our daughter out of public school after first grade because we realized that first grade was a complete waste of her time. They were teaching the same basics at the end of the year that they were teaching at the beginning of the year. Which she already knew going in.

    When It came time to ask ourselves whether or not our son would join a public school for kindergarten, well, we only needed to ask ourselves: would a child who reads at a 2nd grade level really benefit from a public school kindergarten, which at best will be teaching Dick and Jane?

    Sorry, but the answer was obvious. So long as we can afford to homeschool, and so long as our kids are academically FAR ahead of their public schooled peers, I see no reason that we should hold them back.

  5. David,

    I have to agree with you – no training or certification can definitely be a bad thing. I think home schooling is fine, but all of my friends and myself came through the public school system just fine and are doing well in life. Home schooling also has some disadvantages, as does public schooling – but I think as long as home schoolers continue to prove that their students are passing all required exams and are competent in the required areas, things will be ok

  6. Er, no it’s about 3 individuals mandating that thousands of children must be taken away from their moms during the day and sent into the hands of the government, or be known as criminals.

    We’ll have to see what happens…

  7. “but Ken was unable in my judgment to adequately answer why a teacher would need anything more than good books, curriculum and periodic testing with the district.”

    That’s up to the school system to give you an explanation on; complex governmental regulations, etc. etc. What’s becoming clear is that many schools are failing in terms of student education nationwide in spite of a teacher’s “certification”.

  8. David Roberts said in post 91910:

    I just expressed some honest trepidation at the idea of no training or certification at all, and the response was rather abrupt.

    Actually, what you initially argue for was that parents should meet the requirements for teacher certification, not simply some training on how to home-school.

    How could it be a bad thing to be better prepared?

    There is nothing wrong with being better prepared. However, that isn’t what you have been talking about. You have been advocating is increased government regulation of home-schooling (via a certification process), and that brings a lot of political issues that have nothing to do with educating children. I have read many reports of local school boards being very hostile to the notion of home-schooling and attempting to prevent parents from home-schooling. Not out of concern for the educational needs of the children, but because of political concerns, ex: teachers unions feeling threatened by the competition, school boards worried about loss of federal funds due to lower enrollments etc.

    Now, I’m not saying all school districts have been like this and I have read of some districts being very helpful to home-schoolers.

  9. Heh, David is obviously not a fan of homeschooling. So don’t do it.

    As for myself, I think the most important thing I learned in school was how to learn.

    Therefore, according to my theory, any kid who achieves a 7th grade education (by whatever means) who has regular access to a public library ought to be able to complete his/her own education — through high-school and at least a significant portion of college level material — completely on their own. No “teacher” required.

  10. Nemario,

    Generalizations in that you give no real specifics or information, just “do they know how to read and write” kind of stuff, where earlier I’ve already said that a large part of what a teacher must learn is how best to communicate information to a child, how to recognize what works best with certain children, and yes, also whether they are fresh with the information. Again, this teaching goes right up to high school level and while the student must use a facility for things like science labs, the the parent has to end up teaching algebra, biology, etc.

    Add something as in the specifics you left out. I don’t think enough is known about what will happen when and if home-schooling becomes more wide-spread. It may be that in the past 20 years only the really dedicated, highly motivated parents took this path. As I remember it really started as a movement in the 80s when some private schools went under. I realize there is some oversight and we have already discussed that, but Ken was unable in my judgment to adequately answer why a teacher would need anything more than good books, curriculum and periodic testing with the district.

    In the mean time, I’ve asked my sister how she felt about the matter. She originally wasn’t keen on the idea of having to be certified, but then thought if some condensed classes could be created specialized for a parent who wants to home-school, that would have been a great help. She did a wonderful job, she seemed to think she could have avoided a lot of trial and error with some training.

    I don’t see the aversion to this, but I guess we are doing to disagree. I just expressed some honest trepidation at the idea of no training or certification at all, and the response was rather abrupt. In the end, perhaps some online universities will offer these courses at least voluntarily. How could it be a bad thing to be better prepared?

  11. I’m pretty pro-home schooling myself, but I don’t think a little regulation could hurt.

    I’m curious though – does anyone know if there are any standards right now that a parent must meet in order to be able to home school? I assumed that there was, but this may vary from state to state. I know that several of the parents in my church home school.

  12. Obviously I’m puzzled by David’s post. 1) I’m not sure what generalizations were made or 2) what exactly constitutes to “adding something”.

    Anyway, I would have thought bringing up standardized test scores is pretty specific, e.g. as recently as 2005 there are reports of homeschoolers scoring higher nationally on the ACT than private or public school students. By googling “homeschooler scores” you can find this as well as data from the same year of homeschoolers scoring higher on AP exams in PA, etc. etc.

  13. David Roberts asked in post 91750:

    Just think of how any parents aren’t any good at even helping their kids with homework. And what if they are a bad teacher, who is going to “fire” them?

    The state will when their children can’t pass basic standardized tests. You’ve been so hung up on the certification issue, you’ve ignored everything else I said. If you re-read my initial post, I never said parents can just say they are home-schooling and the state doesn’t pay any attention. There clearly needs to be some basic state oversight, I just don’t believe they need to be certified.

  14. Personally I find the idea that a parent needs certification laughable. Did the parent go to school themselves? Do they know how to read, write, add up numbers? Are they able to find and order curriculums?

    Un-schooling, homeschooling, if you look at statistics (I’ve seen them before and if you demand a source I could try to find one again) you’ll see that on average home-schooling students are the most proficient on standardized tests/college graduation etc., followed by private school students and then followed by public school students.

    Many parents both hold jobs and thus aren’t able to completely devote themselves to their children like home-schooling moms do. If they are able to and home-schooling works for them, then that is definitely the best option. Schools are poorly structured anyway, designed to get you to pass a test, not life. Kids are going to college not knowing what they want to do in life and often pick a major just because they have to. The luxury of homeschooling gives you the time to do what you’re interested in and not be overly-bogged in unnecessary homework.

  15. I guess we just have to agree to disagree, at least on whether you have made a good case. There may be a good case to be made for not doing any certification at all, but I just don’t think you have provided it.

    And no, she was not certified. Again, that was my point. I know some cases have turned out very well. I’m just uncomfortable using the idea that a parent can be a parent, so they must be able to be a teacher. If that is so, no teacher would require certification. And I totally reject your position that we should just assume that some will be bad teachers as some are bad parents. At least with a public or private school, a child has a range of teachers. And also, with more than one child going through, a bad teacher is more likely to be noticed. Just think of how any parents aren’t any good at even helping their kids with homework. And what if they are a bad teacher, who is going to “fire” them?

    In the end, I don’t see why a parent should be hesitant to take some sort of training. If this is going to be done on more than a rare instance, I believe that is a reasonable thing to require. Perhaps it could even be done over the internet – I know people getting their master’s degrees through major universities that way.

    All this has really come out of nowhere in the past 20 years or so, but with a couple million kids being home-schooled, I think we need to make some decisions about it.

  16. David Roberts said in post 91629:

    My sister home-schooled 3 of her children and did a wonderful job.

    And is she a certified teacher?

    You’ve provided no good reason why anyone should be certified to teach

    So you think that requiring someone to be certified for a job, before hiring them is unnecessary?

    As I said in my original comments, I’ve seen good results from home-schooling, but it makes me uncomfortable to think that there is absolutely no qualification at all required to do so.

    But it doesn’t make you uncomfortable thinking there is absolutely no qualification for being a parent? You think teaching a child is more important than parenting one?

    If anyone at all can do this effectively, then why certify public and private school teachers? Some private schools have 6-7 kids in a class, which is no larger than a large family.

    1st, I never said anyone can teach effectively. I said parents shouldn’t have to be certified teachers to home-school. If they are parents, they should be given the benefit of assuming they are properly caring for their children. Including that they will make the proper decisions about their children’s education. And only if the state sees evidence that they are not properly teaching their children (or caring for them) should the state step in and take corrective action.

    Further, teaching in a class room setting is not the same thing as teaching your own children. You are comparing apples to oranges and claiming that because they are both round they are the same. Parents teach their children all the time. School teachers have to be able to effectively teach groups of children they only see for a few hours a day. Knowing how to teach your own children is not the same as knowing how to teach other peoples children.

    To re-iterate, I am not saying that all parents would make good teachers. Or even that all parents are good parents. I am saying they should not be required to be certified to teach their children the way a person who is hired to teach children should be.

  17. No, I’m not a parent, but at my age I think I’ve seen enough to know the basics of what many go through. My sister home-schooled 3 of her children and did a wonderful job. Then again, she does a great job at anything she does, I can’t speak for others. I still think your argument is weak. You’ve provided no good reason why anyone should be certified to teach, much less parents of home-schooled kids.

    How has the volume of information changed in the last 20 years? and why do you presume that parents don’t know this information (and can’t teach it to their children)? Are you saying you don’t have the knowledge of a 3rd grader? 4th? 7th? a high school student?

    I’m quite comfortable saying that it has more than doubled. However, there are two other problems with your statement. First, merely possessing the knowledge of a 3rd or 4th grader is not the same as understanding how best to communicate it – that’s why teachers go to college. Second, home-schooling goes right up into the high school levels, not just 3rd or 4th grade.

    As I said in my original comments, I’ve seen good results from home-schooling, but it makes me uncomfortable to think that there is absolutely no qualification at all required to do so. If anyone at all can do this effectively, then why certify public and private school teachers? Some private schools have 6-7 kids in a class, which is no larger than a large family.

    I understand what you are saying, but I do not think you have very good reasoning behind your justification of it. My implication, of course, is that if a teacher needs to have a certain level of training to teach properly, why shouldn’t a parent who wishes to do the same job? Should they not be willing to at least take some classes, even if they are condensed and aimed at home-schooling parents, before they assume such a responsibility? How could that be a bad thing?

  18. David Roberts said in post 91456:

    However aside from the shear volume of information which must be taught at this point in history, the state does have a responsibility in the matter of primary education.

    How has the volume of information changed in the last 20 years? and why do you presume that parents don’t know this information (and can’t teach it to their children)? Are you saying you don’t have the knowledge of a 3rd grader? 4th? 7th? a high school student?

    It’s been a few years, but I’m pretty confident I could pass any basic high school test. I might have to review for a few subjects.

    If parents do not take proper care of their children, the State absolutely does have the right to intervene, even to the extent of removing the child from their custody and placing them with other parents.

    This is correct, and nothing I said implies otherwise. What I said was that the state does not require parents to prove in advance that parents must prove their parenting ability. And as I said, I believe this holds for parents who wish to teach their children themselves.

    However, being a parent does not require any specialized education

    Based on this statement, I’m assuming you aren’t a parent.. Parenting does require a specialized education, and most parents get this education “on the job.”

    You keep repeating the same weak argument Ken, but I don’t think it holds up.

    And you keep claiming my arguments are weak with no clear reasons why, or even a clear indication that you understand what I am saying.

    It is one thing to allow parents to teach their own kids, it is another to allow them to do it with no certification whatsoever. In a society as specialized and complicated as ours, and a world that is growing more so every day, this situation seems like an emotional response, in some cases to real problems with our system of education, but in any event a haphazard one.</i.

    Really, how much do you actually know about home-schooled kids? All the reports I’ve seen indicate they do just as well, or in many cases better, than children educated in public schools. And I doubt many of those parents have teaching certificates.

  19. And that includes deciding whether they (the parents) are qualified to teach their children.

    I suppose that might have been a valid argument a century or two ago. However aside from the shear volume of information which must be taught at this point in history, the state does have a responsibility in the matter of primary education. A parent cannot, for instance, simply allow their child to not go to school – the State will intervene and place the child in a school with a qualified teacher.

    And in fact, if parents do not take proper care of their children, the State absolutely does have the right to intervene, even to the extent of removing the child from their custody and placing them with other parents. However, being a parent does not require any specialized education – love and devotion will do by itself if necessary. This is not necessarily the case with a teacher, unless again you are willing to say that school teachers need not be certified either.

    You keep repeating the same weak argument Ken, but I don’t think it holds up. It is one thing to allow parents to teach their own kids, it is another to allow them to do it with no certification whatsoever. In a society as specialized and complicated as ours, and a world that is growing more so every day, this situation seems like an emotional response, in some cases to real problems with our system of education, but in any event a haphazard one. We can do better.

  20. David Roberts said in post 91435:

    There should be better answers than this, or some sort of certification to ensure at least a basic assessment and possible training of any parent who expects to teach their children what otherwise would require a specialized education.And there must be a procedure in place so that a parent can be refused the request to take on the job of educator if they are not capable or the environment not conducive.

    Do you think all parents should be certified to be parents as well? After all, isn’t being responsible for a child’s upbringing and well being far more important than being responsible for a child’s education (which I view as a subset of being responsible for a child’s upbringing)? Do you believe parents need to prove in advance that they are capable of being parents and if they are not then the hospitals don’t release their children to them? I certainly don’t. What I think is that we trust in parents to act in their children’s best interest. And that includes deciding whether they (the parents) are qualified to teach their children. However, for teachers, who are hired to teach, I would expect that they have greater qualifications because they have to deal with different circumstances (educational needs of a diverse population) AND because they are being paid to do it.

    Is it your opinion that all parents are capable of this type of rigorous educational task?

    No. In fact it isn’t my opinion that all parents are capable of being parents. However, we don’t require them to prove in advance they are capable of raising their children, and I don’t think they should have to prove in advance they are capable of teaching them. Furthermore, I do not think the skill set needed to home-school is the same as the skill set needed to teach in a classroom.

  21. I’m sorry Ken, I just don’t think you have a strong argument. You may have explained why teachers are paid – because they are dealing with a diverse group of other peoples children, providing a service – but not why they are certified, or why homeschooling parents should not be. Again, if a person with basic knowledge is put in the classroom with a qualified curriculum, and the kids pass periodic testing at the district level, how is this any different?

    Even if I agreed with you, I could not accept your argument. There should be better answers than this, or some sort of certification to ensure at least a basic assessment and possible training of any parent who expects to teach their children what otherwise would require a specialized education. And there must be a procedure in place so that a parent can be refused the request to take on the job of educator if they are not capable or the environment not conducive.

    Is it your opinion that all parents are capable of this type of rigorous educational task? And if not, who will tell them they can’t? This just can’t be a free-for-all.

  22. David Roberts asked in post 91365:

    How does the size of the group enter in?

    Not simply the size of the group, but also the nature of it. Note, I didn’t simply say it was because it was a large group. School teachers have to be able to deal with a diverse group of students from many different families and backgrounds. Further, you seem to have missed the part that teachers are paid to teach. I know if I’m going to pay someone for a service, I would expect that they have some minimum level of competency.

    A person might trust a child staying at home more than at a school, but again what does that really have to do with certification?

    I don’t understand this question. What person are you referring to? A parent? a teacher? a government official? and what thing/idea is this person trusting to happen?

    If there is no reason to certify a parent’s knowledge in order to home school (which is really just teaching a class as small as one, but possibly larger depending on how many children they have), why should we require certification of public and private school teachers?

    To re-iterate, because we pay the teachers to do their jobs, because teachers have to deal with a greater diversity of children, and because an incompetent teacher will have an adverse effect on a greater number of children than an incompetent parent will. Now, I’m not saying teacher certification guarantees competency, but it does at least set a minimum level.

  23. That honestly sounds more like a rationalization, Ken. How does the size of the group enter in? We don’t require different certification for teachers to teach different size classes. A person might trust a child staying at home more than at a school, but again what does that really have to do with certification? The school itself provides the real security.

    The responsibility of the State is to the education of the child in this matter. So I would ask again, if there is no reason to certify a parent’s knowledge in order to home school (which is really just teaching a class as small as one, but possibly larger depending on how many children they have), why should we require certification of public and private school teachers? Why not let them teach from an approved curriculum, have the school or even the district test them occasionally and just make sure they are where they should be?

    It seems to me somehow unequal to allow a parent to teach perhaps 4 or 5 kids with no training or possibly even lacking a college education of any sort, but force a teacher to spend at least 4 years earning their credentials. In the end they are both supposedly responsible for the same thing – the education of one or more children who will one day depend on what they learn to become a functioning member of society.

  24. David Roberts asked in post 91245:

    then why do we require them of public and private school teachers?Couldn’t they just administer an approved curriculum while the school did occasional testing and oversight?

    Because school teachers are paid to teach large groups of other people’s children. As such, it is reasonable to expect they have a certain level of qualifications before parents entrust their children to them.

  25. Ken said:

    I disagree with the idea that the parents must have teaching certificates.

    I guess my question would be, then why do we require them of public and private school teachers? Couldn’t they just administer an approved curriculum while the school did occasional testing and oversight?

  26. In PA, to home school one must have curriculum reviewed yearly by a qualified reviewer (certified teacher, counselor, school administrator). We have schooled at home, via cyber school, in private school and public. All things being equal, from middle school down, I do not see much advantage in one over another. From high school on, I see academic advantage in a school setting, unless the parents have mastery of all subjects. I see disadvantage from middle school and up socially as the adolescent subculture is often brutal. I personally think parents have a tough job maintaining conservative values in such a subculture. However, I am not persuaded that one-size-fits-all when it comes to education. Each location and approach can have value if properly applied to the needs of a given child.

  27. While I certainly think home-schooling needs some kind of oversight (parents are required to submit curriculums, students must be able to pass basic standardized tests etc), I disagree with the idea that the parents must have teaching certificates.

    And I hope this ruling gets over-turned.

  28. I’ve known a few people whose parents home-schooled them. Their parents were very dedicated and therefore did a good job. However, I’ve always wondered about the wisdom of allowing anyone at all, regardless of qualifications or intent, to teach their kids in place of a credentialed, monitored environment. I see private schools which can pass the same requirements of the public versions as perfectly reasonable.

    Do any states require the parent to pass any kind of certification to take on this responsibility?

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