Apparently believing the adage that bad publicity is better than no publicity, Paul Cameron excerpts his recent letter to me for a press release this morning. Titled, “Why Should Homosexuals Have Super Rights?”, Cameron begins the release by again reprising Rudolph Hoss: “Is it fair, is it just to give those who live parasitic lives ‘Super Rights?’ ”
Wow.
It was also under Ronald Reagan that AIDS funding was tipped over to gays.
..but thanks for labeling me a hate-mongerer anyway. His quote stands.
Tim – I suspect your noble efforts are wasted on this troll. Nevertheless, it’s the best entertainment I’ve had all week. Thanks for taking the time.
They’re only rights when they apply to people that we like, ya know.
Cuz Ronald Reagan knew that in 1978 when he opposed the Briggs Initiative. In fact, his opposition is credited for it failing to pass. And, of course, this is the same Reagan who hosted the first gay couple to stay in the White House. And the one whose daughter reported:
My father gently explained that Mr. Hudson didn’t really have a lot of experience kissing women; in fact, he would much prefer to be kissing a man. This was said in the same tone that would be used if he had been telling me about people with different colored eyes, and I accepted without question that this whole kissing thing wasn’t reserved just for men and women.
Sorry, Phillips. But the real living breathing Ronald Reagan (not the imaginary icon of all things conservative) wasn’t hateful to gay folks. He had gay friends. And while he may not have been a big supporter of equality, he also opposed the sort of discrimination that you champion.
The point is that they’re not rights. See Reagan quote.
but in concern to your points…
One would usually think that what follows has SOMETHING to do with the points. But, well, what does one expect from Cameron/supporter?
blah blah blah pedophile, blah blah blah AIDS, blah blah blah promiscuity and public sex. Nothing whatsoever about rights v. “super rights” (or even super duper rights). Sigh.
FRI has a National Advisory Board. I don’t know who’s on it, I’ve only come accross a few names in FRI’s newsletters, but Cal Skinner, former Illinois state house member, was the FRI supporter who tried and failed to pass legislation for funding aimed at prison rape. He was one of a handful of legislators who have tried to do such a thing, though most attempts have failed.
No, but I’ll have one soon of a radio debate in Ireland between Cameron and a rep. of the national Irish organization of students for diversity. The rep. apparently got a little squeamish with the new findings, even though he’d come prepared with the critiques.
some legislatures – including some on FRIs board
Legislators on FRI’s board? Please, Phillips, do tell who they are.
I’m glad you decided not to leave, Phillips. Your comedy stylings would be missed. Imagine, a defender of Paul Cameron expecting to be taken seriously when talking about research!
Do you have a cd?
Actually, Tim, I was talking about the pedophilia issue, but in concern to your points…
1) The burden society’s tax dollars with a public health issue.
2) Considering agendas, the culture, and research your community is known for in the area of being attracted to the young, as well as the research that shows things like you being more apt to skip work, have health issues, etc., employers and school boards should have the right of discernment.
3) It’s not equality, it’s a devious lifestyle that you are seeking to label as an alternative.
“The greatest single victory of the gay movement over the past decade has been to shift the debate from behavior to identity, thus forcing opponents into a position where they can be seen as attacking the civil rights of homosexual citizens rather than attacking specific and (as the see it) antisocial behavior. President Reagan apparently recognizes this distinction: before his election he was quoted as saying, ‘My criticism of the gay rights movement is that it isn’t asking for civil rights, it is asking for a recognition and acceptance of an alternative life style which I do not believe society can condone, nor can I.'” – The Homosexualization of America: the Americanization of the Homosexual
4) Ever read “My Country, My Right to Serve?” While aimed at promoting you in the military, it really only details a gross amount of rape, sexual recruitment and insubordination among the ‘gays’ it covers. AIDS is 5 times more prevalent in prison (some legislatures – including some on FRIs board – have tried and failed to bass legislation aimed at prison rape), do we really want this in our military as well?
5) Poor kids. A typical foster case in Vermont: Though the parents strenuously objected, their hard to handle child was given to a gay couple. When the boy complained to the Department of the couple asking him innapropriate question, the Department concluded that it was a lie and that the parent’s had coached the boy to say it. Not two weeks later the 16 year old ran away to a local hospital when the “family” was out shopping in order to escape the couple after they had already had their way with him. (Rutland Herald, 6/21/02) Research shows that gays are much, much more likely to molest, as well as lead violent lives.
6) Gay marriage is just the next step for the gay movement to receive public recognition. Reserach shows most gays prefer to live alone and have multiple parterns, even when they bother to enter into marriage.
7) Interesting you mention ‘cubicle’, was that “Sparticus” that was a guide to public rest areas, parks, etc. that have been commadeered by gays?
‘Super’ rights, indeed.
As far as Cameron being a tool, well….
Warren, we’re talking about ’super rights’ here, which is what the gay agenda has shown time and time again.
The right not to be arrested for private consentual activity with the person to whom you have committed your life.
The right to seek redress before your government on the same standing as your neighbor.
The right to avail oneself of the services offered to the public on the same terms as one’s peers.
The right to serve one’s country (you have to wonder at a system that welcomes gang member criminals and kicks out Arabic linguists).
The right to provide a loving home to a child without one.
The right to the same benefits, obligations and responsibilities of a convenanted relationship as some drunk bimbo who just met a biker in Vegas.
The right to provide your family with the same wages and benefits as the man in the next cubicle.
Yep. As South Park’s Big Gay Al would say, “those rights are just suuuuuper.”
Well I certainly don’t know where you pick that up, nor does it invalidate his research as being a tool in public policy (not passing these anti-discrimination laws, whatever). Cameron never mentioned anything about ex-‘gay’ people.
Well, the people reading the Cameron’s materials think they are talking about anyone who is or was homosexual.
Aw, Phillips, don’t leave. Please tell me you do live shows somewhere. Are you available to perform at weddings and/or bar mitzvahs? Just think, “Super Rights” could become your “Git’ r’ dun!”
and as for ex-gays, we’re not talking about them, are we. That would be a decision for the informed adult to make in regards to the child, based on the adult’s trust on the reformed infividual…
By the way, the link I provided wasn’t from Cameron, though he has a similar pamphlet on his site. He uses most of the research FRC had collected and more.
The bottom line is that research, certain agenda’s and the culture of homosexuals and seem to be particularly targeting youth, I don’t see how after the facts any parent wouldn’t be concerned of a child being exposed to such a person…frankly. I think I’m done here for now.
Warren, we’re talking about ‘super rights’ here, which is what the gay agenda has shown time and time again. That plus the fact that since homosexuals disproportionately (to extremem percentages) account for child molestations, coupled with the research that shows young attraction, the average homosexual thus…gays as teachers?
You have equality, Tim, you can marry a woman if you like.
Ah, so when the Homosexual Agenda is finally implemented and heterosexual marriages have been outlawed, Phillips won’t complain, because he’ll have the equal right to marry a dude.
I think Phillips has an unhealthy obsession. I would lock up the kiddies while he’s around.
Phillips – The word is empirical.
#s1, 3, & 4 – Any moral person including the gay commenters on this blog and I suspect most gay people oppose pedophilia. There are heterosexual groups that favor it, should we say that all straights are tarred with the same brush.
#2 – ILGA says they expelled them on their website. How much more official do you need?
Re: the empirical evidence. The research in question is not the highest quality from a sampling perspective but even if there is a somewhat higher percentage of pedophiles who also like adult men, I do not know how that relates to the great majority of gay men who do not like children. There are some people who like sex with anything and anyone. I would categorize that as a problem, even a disorder. That group of people we should keep away from children and we should work to treat.
However, for those who are not so inclined, it does no good nor does it provide anyone enlightenment or any service to assume they are. And it does harm. I know of ex-gay men who cannot see their nieces, nephews and grandchildren because their family members have read information informed by the Cameron’s reports. Making leaps of logic based on slightly elevated probabilities and very small numbers scares people into taking unnecessarily hurtful actions. And not just hurtful to the ex-gay men, but the children who are deprived of their uncles and grandfathers.
Teach people to avoid the real dangers – this is a good thing. Teach kids to avoid warning signs no matter who they are with. As I have noted on this blog, I have seen more cases of married men with children molest boys than gay identified men who molest boys. I am not saying gay men don’t do this but I am saying that removing the gay identified isn’t going to eliminate child abuse. Your stance irrationally focuses on class of people as opposed to behavior.
okay, so now we have:
1: the 1972 gay rights platorm (a community’s mentality can change oh so much in just 30 years, right)
2: ILGA not producing any offical documents of NAMBLAs expulsion, accepting them in first place, etc.
3: The COC in Europe actually calling for pedophilia as a gay issue, as recognised in the Journal of Homosexuality there, as well as ages of consent laws being flexed in places with gay influence,
4: ‘Gay’ fiction “literature” on the topic of pedophilia,
and finally, oh, right, empiracle evidence.
http://www.frc.org/get.cfm?i=WA03I35 – Family Research Council
You have equality, Tim, you can marry a woman if you like.
Tim,
You admit yourself there is a gry area. I have read papers online (not from conservative sources either) that clearly interpret Holland’s law to pretty much letting 12 year olds have consensual sex. This was a while ago and I didn’t find it from a search engine so I don’t know if I could find them again, though gay bloggers I’ve debated (whatever use it is) have admitted they’ve seen the same thing. And we both know how loosly laws can be interpreted…I’m done on this.
Phillips – Your theories of gay groups from the 70s and Europe influencing age of consent laws in DC aren’t convincing. We all here — gay and straight alike — oppose pedophilia. We have had discussions on this blog where those who could safely be called activists opposed mixing teens and adults in sexually oriented clubs and treatment programs. You’re not making your case.
Got anything else?
and yes, in D.C. a 12 year old can legally have consensual sex.
Actually, what you mean is that prosecution is not manditory if a 12 year old girl and a 13 year old boy have consensual sex.
But that certainly isn’t the same as your totally untruthful claim that “D.C. has lowered that age of consent to 12”.
Rather than justify your false claims, why don’t you just avoid making them?
Also, let’s stick to relevant subjects. The close-age exceptions in various states is hardly relevant to the subject.
Well, actually this conversation is relevant. It illustrates the untruthfulness of Cameron and his alter-egos and his supporters.
“Super rights†being what the gay movement is pushing for, aren’t you…it doesn’t help that there’s so much fictional ‘gay’ literature on this subject either.
Nope. No super rights. Only equality.
“actually, I think I was thinking of Holland, in ‘90 they made the age of consent 12, unless the parent objects in which case it goes up to 16.”
More Truth Deficit Syndrome. Prosecution can be made between 12 and 16 without parental consent. You really need to stop making false claims. They are very easy to refute, but they waste the time of all of us.
And they are irrelevant.
Well, other than to show that you have a very bad case of TDS.
Yes, there most certainly is a grey area…
actually, I think I was thinking of Holland, in ’90 they made the age of consent 12, unless the parent objects in which case it goes up to 16.
and yes, in D.C. a 12 year old can legally have consensual sex. Bottom line, it appears that some of the places with the most gay influence are curbing their laws.
“Super rights” being what the gay movement is pushing for, aren’t you…it doesn’t help that there’s so much fictional ‘gay’ literature on this subject either.
Phillips,
You seem to be suffering from Truth Deficit Syndrome. Though many of your statements have partial facts, none of them actually end up being true when you look closely.
The age of consent in the Netherlands is not 12. It is 16 for either same-sex or opposite-sex. There is a grey area between 12 and 16 that can result in prosecution with the variant appearing to be the age of the other party, but it is illegal for an adult to have sex with a person of either sex younger than 16.
And there is no indication whatsoever that COC is in charge of setting the age of consent for the Netherlands.
http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2003/27856.htm
The age of consent is also 16 in the District of Columbia. Sexual abuse penalties increase by half if the child is under 12. There is a 4-year “Romeo and Juliet” clause, but your claim that D.C. lowed the age to 12 has no basis whatsoever.
Could it just be your TDS acting up?
http://moraloutrage.net/staticpages/index.php?page=Washingtondc
As for what a Dutch gay organization supported 20 years ago or what some unknown group of individuals did in 1972, I fail to see the relevance to the conversation which, if I recall correctly, is about Paul Cameron’s blathering about non-existent “super rights”.
And, now, your inability to be truthful.
Well, let’s see, so far we have the 1972 gay rights platform and the ILGA mysterious connections with NAMBLA and two other pedophile groups.
Do you know what the COC is? It’s a homphile organization. Until the 90’s they had been calling for the institution of marriage to be discarded. They must have realized they wouldn’t get anywhere like that. That same year they got the Netherlands to lower the age of consent to 12.
In 1987, The Journal of Homosexuality – the scholarly organ of the gay rights movement – published “Pedophilia and the Gay Movement.” (29) Author Theo Sandfort detailed homosexual efforts to end “oppression towards pedophilia.” In 1980 the largest Dutch gay organization (the COC) “adopted the position that the liberation of pedophilia must be viewed as a gay issue… [and that] ages of consent should therefore be abolished… by acknowledging the affinity between homosexuality and pedophilia, the COC has quite possibly made it easier for homosexual adults to become more sensitive to erotic desires of younger members of their sex, thereby broadening gay identity.”
D.C. has lowered that age of consent to 12 as well, while residing at an AIDS rate 5 times that of N.Y.
Ya know, Phillips, I really couldn’t tell you. Maybe because they’re Belgians and not very familiar with the group. I do know that their policy opposed pedophilia before they got around to officially kicking them out.
Why it took so long? No idea.
It may come as a surprise that we gay folk don’t all know each other. In fact, I don’t know all of the 2.5 million men in this country alone who identify as gay. And when you add in lesbians, bisexuals, and teens, well my Christmas Card list just can’t handle 10 million people – and I’m not even going to try and guess about the international gay community.
But this we know, Phillips, the American gay organizations and the international organization (to the extent it represents something) have all spoken and said the same thing: we oppose pedophilia and so should you.
Naturally Iran would prefer to pretend that this isn’t the case. As would all the truly heinous and repressive regimes around the world. And Paul Cameron (who seems to increasingly find alliances for himself among the, shall we say, less admirable of regimes). Oh, and you too, Phillips.
Tim,
I wonder why it took them until the U.N. dropped their non-governmental status to try to dissacociate themselves with NAMBLA. That was after five years. They still do not provide formal documentation of NAMBLA’s expulsion.
2006 UN action concerning the ILGA [From: http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2006/ecosoc6203.doc.htm ]
And from 2007 [http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2007/ecosoc6251.doc.htm ]:
The countries that are blocking the ILGA based upon supposed pedophilia are those countries which wish to deny rights – not based in sexual orientation – but outright to people of ‘anomolous’ sexual orientation. One country, Iran, has been regularly institutionally murdering gay people, usually trumping up the charges with that of pedophilia to make the Iranaian government look good.
Phillips,
Maybe I’m the only one who thought it was obvious why ILGA doesn’t release information that can get their members incarcerated or killed.
It isn’t because they are secretly controlled by the vast NAMBLA conspiracy. It’s because they recognize, though perhaps you do not, that it is a real danger if you are a gay group in Iran or Jamaica or China or Nigeria.
http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2002/ECOSOC6004.doc.htm
Warren, look up the ILGA in wikipedia, under “controversy” you’ll see citations to the U.N. news release.
but Warren, that’s just the point, they don’t release their membership list.
Phillips- just curious, you’re dealing with educated people here, do you honestly think anyone’s going to buy what you’re shoveling?
From the ILGA website:
Yesterday, 11 December 2006, the United Nations Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC) granted consultative status to three gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender organisations: to ILGA-Europe, the European Region of the International Lesbian and Gay Association, to the Danish and German national lesbian and gay association, LBL and LSVD.
…
In 2007, applications from seven other LGBT groups will be considered by the ECOSOC.
Let’s hope none of the seven have secret membership lists.
I read the news release from the UN – it says nothing about ILGA not revealing member lists. Where did you get your information?
About the 400 organizations, I asked you first to prove there is a secret list.
Warren, please provide documentation for the membership list itself.
Mr. Phillips – Please provide documentation for the secret membership list.
“Yup, they have a secret connection.”
nuff said 😉
It couldn’t be because they oppose political oppression of gay people and those who voted against them all actively participate in political oppression of gay people. No. It’s the secret connection that is known only by Paul Cameron, Phillps, Cameroon, China, Cote D’Ivoire, Iran, Pakistan, Russian Federation, Senegal, Sudan and Zimbabwe.
I’m not sure how Zimbabwe found out, though. I didn’t think they had that effective of an espianage program. Maybe they were let in on the secret by the Ivory Coast.
*ps* they’re not
Hey it only takes a second to look online and see. C,mon Paullips do you really think I wouldn’t go see?
http://www.ilga.org/news_results.asp?LanguageID=1&FileCategoryID=10&FileID=861&ZoneID=7
PPS – Mr. Phillips, NAMBLA is not a part of ILGA – from their <a href=website:
“In 1994, ILGA expelled NAMBLA and two other paedophile groups at its World Conference in New York.” – ILGA
Yup, they have a secret connection. They won’t disclose their full memberships list to the U.N., that’s why they havn’t been readmitted since NAMBLA’s acceptance as a member.
as *recent* as ’02.
By the way, I mentioned the Netherlands earlier…the CDC announced in ’03 that a new strain of virus, LVG – a mutation of chlamydia – had broken out among gays there and warned it would soon spread here, which it has.
Timmothy, are NAMBLA and other pedophile organizations part of ILGA or aren’t they. (*ps* they are)
and just a correction to my post above…it’s actually the International Gay/Lesibian Association (IGLA), and the U.N. actually dropped IGLA from being recognised as a governmnet organization in ’85 when IGLA accepted NAMBLA as a member, as well as other pedophile organizations. As early as ’02, the U.N. has refused IGLA when they re-apply because IGLA won’t give a full list of their memberships.
Phillips,
Good thing we have empiracle research.
You (I mean Paul) are really fond of this term. I encourage the continued usage. The irony always makes me chuckle.
Judith Levine sure doesn’t think it’s a hoax, she’s calling for its provisions herself.
The COC, a homophile organization in Europe, has called for the institution of marriage to be abolished. Thanks to them, the Netherlands lowered the age of consent to 12. D.C. has followed suit.
Phillips,
I googled International Gay Organization. It didn’t come up, but I assume you mean ILGA – the International Lesbian and Gay Organization – instead of the International Gay Rodeo Association or the International Gay Bowling Organization, which also came up.
I looked at ILGA. Their constitution opposes pedophilia. Those wacky Belgians.
I think perhaps that if we look at the nations who voted in May 2006 we might see something relevant:
In favor of accepting ILGA: Chile, Colombia, France, Germany, Peru, Romania and the United States.
Opposed: Cameroon, China, Cote D’Ivoire, Iran, Pakistan, Russian Federation, Senegal, Sudan and Zimbabwe
Obstained: India and Turkey.
Cuba left the room.
So I guess what you are saying, Paul (I mean Phillips) is that your views on human rights align up with those of China, Russia, and Iran. I have to admit I’m really not surprised by that.
Hey Phillips – what are your thoughts on the Protocols of the Elders of Zion?
Just wondering.
The Internation Gay Organization has allowed NAMBLA as a member organization, the U.N. has never recognized the IGO because they would never purge themselves of organizations supporting pedophelia.
According to your source (which admits the claims are unsubstantiated), 495 organizations where invited, 85 participated. That’s less than 20%. And doesn’t even take into account the relative sizes of the various organizations. Thus, it is impossible to tell what percentage of the gay population those 85 organizations actually represented.
So I’m curious Phillips, what do you believe this 35 year old “Agenda” you found actually represents? What did you hope to show by posting about it here?
Carb loading might help, Boo.
Shoot, I really didn’t want to have sex with underaged prostitutes while reading porn with my five spouses, but if it’s part of The Gay Agenda, guess I’m obligated.
It’s gonna be a long night…
alright, fine, change the 495 to 85 organizations and 200 individual participants, the rest stands.
In ’02 a family organization made a freedom of information requiest to the FBI for the document. Simple google search will wield you plenty of sources.
Here’s one from a gay site: http://www.robertslevinson.com/gaylesissues/features/collect/onetime/bl_platform1972.htm
Judith Levine: http://www.cwfa.org/articles/4374/CFI/cfreport/index.htm
but alas, just because 495 gay organizations accross the country crafted this despicable document a mere 30 years ago, why should we hold that these kinds of people still have the same perverted mentality?
Good thing we have empiracle research.
and wait, there’s more:
“3. Repeal all state laws prohibiting solicitation for private voluntary sexual liaisons; and laws prohibiting prostitution, both male and female.”
Ottawa, Canada: A gay rights legal team has argued to the Canadian Supreme Court that “pornography is so integral to the gay and lesbian culture that homosexual books and magazines shouldn’t be subject to the same obscenity test as heterosexual material” in an oscenity case again “Little Sisters” bookstore. (National Post 2/25/00)
Paul, er I mean Phillips, I’m sure you did notice the preface to that Wikipedia entry:
And while stating the obvious can be tedious, let’s do it anyway; just because someone wrote something, if indeed this was really a platform for some organization 50 years ago, it doesn’t mean most or even any gay people adhere to it. It’s like quoting some of your (I mean Paul Cameron’s) wacky stuff and claiming it as the established goal of heterosexual humanity. It’s not a way to find the truth but to support some perverted vendetta.
The gay agenda’s super rights? The American populace won’t WANT to know exactly what ‘super rights’ gays are aiming for…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1972_Gay_Rights_Platform
7. Repeal of all laws governing the age of sexual consent. (1972 State-7)
8. Repeal of all legislative provisions that restrict the sex or number of persons entering into a marriage unit; and the extension of legal benefits to all persons who cohabit regardless of sex or numbers. (1972 State-8)
re: “Walking applicants out to the car and taking a peek inside has worked wonderfully.”
That’s how I used to decide whether to move into an apartment complex.
Actually, I have found that two of the best indicators for who makes a good renter are: employment history and what the inside of their car looks like. Walking applicants out to the car and taking a peek inside has worked wonderfully.
OK, I hate to go for stereotypes here, but… here’s a story from a few years back.
There was a neighborhood association in a kinda run-down area of San Diego which was trying to think of a way to improve property values. They got this great idea, “let’s get gay people to move it, they always bring up property values”. So they marched down the street in the gay pride parade with signs saying “Move into our Neighborhood”.
I don’t know if it worked, but it did make me chuckle.
Landlords should only be forced to rent to straight people — that way they don’t have to worry about tenants having out-of-wedlock sex, using drugs or alcohol, doing damage to their property, skipping out on the rent or all those other nasty things that parasites tend to do…
My correction – the rule only applies to those renting a room in a single family home. Although, you cannot be forced to rent to anyone in particular if you can prove that you accepted all applications and your selection is based on valueable critieria such as employment stability, ability to maintain payments using resources such as: credit scores, income, employment references, character references etc…
In addition, he talks about not wanting to rent out the other half of a duplex to “gays” and someone violating discriminations laws if gays get Super Rights.
Well, I don’t know the R.E. laws in other states but in our liberal state – if you are residing on the property of a 1-4 unit residential property, you can discriminate because it is your personal residence. In other words, you get to choose who you will live with.
Okay, last time I checked, I (ex gay for clarification) am paying taxes for public schools and I have no children. I assume gays are paying, too ( and they may be childless, also??) Hmmm?
Pay taxes for churches, public schools, roads, community bonds etc…. and who contributes????
Hey, and I’m not returning my gifts even though I’m no longer a member of the club.
Maybe he’s afraid that if we give equal rights to gays, everyone will want them.
Mayby someone got sloppy with the listserv.
Darn it, I missed the ritual and couldn’t sign up for the quasi-secret society. My copy of Spartacus was out of date and led me to the wrong commandeered bathroom. So I guess for me it will have to remain just a worthless amusement.
By the way, Cameron needs to learn the proper use of quotation marks.
Now we’re going to have to send the Gay Activist Squad after you.
You’re going to have to give back the toaster oven!
How did he know about our secret society? I’ll bet he has been to a few meetings in his time, if you know what I mean…
Okay, I’ll let the cat out of the bag. Super Rights is really just a cover for the Homosexual Agenda’s real Agenda:
Super Duper Rights