The New Yorker published online an article on The Fellowship, titled “Frat House for Jesus: The entity behind C street.”
The article is lengthy and I need to read it more thoroughly before I give an assessment of the completeness of the reporting but I am not encouraged by the author’s treatment of Uganda’s Anti-Homosexuality Bill:
Hunter brought Yoweri Kaguta Museveni, the former African rebel who became Uganda’s President, and other key Ugandan leaders into prayer groups. When Uganda’s Parliament took up a bill last year that would have punished some homosexual acts with death, Hunter and his friends in the Fellowship felt they had the standing to urge the proposed measure’s defeat. Museveni appointed a commission that studied the matter and then recommended that the bill be withdrawn.
That’s it. While Peter Boyer’s purpose was to report on the Fellowship – in advance of Jeff Sharlet’s new book on the subject coming out soon – he could have at least mentioned that the bill was not withdrawn and that the mover of the bill is a main figure in the Ugandan prayer breakfast movement (The Fellowship).
This paragraph makes it seems as though the bill is history because of the American opposition from the Fellowship. If anything, the American and Ugandan prayer breakfast groups are still at odds over the proper policy regarding the bill. The bill is still alive in committee with Fellowship associate and Ugandan member of Parliament, David Bahati, still advocating the application of Leviticus in Ugandan law.
Let me hasten to add that the American Fellowship group woke up about the issue after Jeff Sharlet reported that David Bahati was a Ugandan associate. From that time, Fellowship associate and spokesperson Bob Hunter’s opposition has been strong and unwavering. Spiritual leader Doug Coe spoke out against the bill. The February national breakfast committee would not have allowed Bahati to attend. And Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton used their National Prayer Breakfast speeches to blast the Ugandan bill by name.
However, Boyer glossed over this history and current reality (did he talk to anyone in Uganda?) and the reader is left with the impression that the bill has been withdrawn or defeated because the American Fellowship used their “standing.” The American Fellowship group has used their influence but the Ugandan Fellowship group has not responded by withdrawing or urging defeat of the bill. My contacts tell me that the situation is no different than when I was at the National Prayer Breakfast in February and many of the Ugandan delegation were in favor of the bill.
Given this treatment of the Uganda situation in the New Yorker piece, I urge a cautious reading of the rest of the article.
For more on the current status of the AHB, see this post and most recently here.
David – Pretty much the driver of HIV in Africa is transactional sex (e.g., in Kenya, sex for fish among fish traders and fishermen), and sexual networks among straights. The superstitions do drive some of it but the studies I have seen implicate the first two factors much more – the epidemics there are general ones, not localized as here.
Probably if the comparisons are unfair it is to unfairly compare epidemic types – general vs. localized. However, I think the response to Maazi stands. It seems like hubris to lecture the West on controlling HIV via avoidance of sexual license when same is involved in driving the higher rates in your backyard.
Don’t get me wrong: As as public health policy, I still favor what we have written about – Abstinence, fidelity and condoms for those who will not do the first two. I think the public health terms are delayed debut and partner reduction but you know what I mean.
All the more reason why we need to beat gayism back without compromise in order to prevent a future exponential rise in HIV/AIDS infections from the current 6.4%.
The ABC (“Abstinence/Be faithful/use Condom”) policy was very effective in reducing AIDS from double to single digits. The “Abstinence” part of the policy played a very strong role in the decline of HIV/AIDS infection rates. This fact is quite inconvenient for western social liberals who initially derided policy for not focusing entirely on condoms since in their hedonistic mindset, humans are beasts incapable of controlling their sexual desires. Despite doomsday predictions by the hedonists, the ABC policy worked. Today, the hedonists are predicting an epidermic of AIDS unless gayism is decriminalized. Apparently their propaganda strategy of equating “gay rights” to “human rights” has failed to move Africans by a single inch. I am sure this new Western strategy of linking decriminalization of gayism to lower HIV infection rates will also fail woefully as well.
What the Ugandan health authorities need at this stage is a bit of innovation to make the ABC policy work better—– better sensitization of the public, better delivery systems for medicines and extending treatment to groups most likely to catch the disease without compromising our penal code on narcotics, prostitution and sex crimes. These authorities remain steadfast in ignoring propaganda backed with dubious data which links acceptance of gayism with lower AIDS rates. Even gay-friendly western nations ban sex deviants from donating their risky blood to hospitals to prevent runaway HIV/AIDS infection rates.
Uganda should look to West Africa to see why their HIV/AIDS levels are very low with infection rates ranging from less than 1% to 5% on average. The badly affected Southern Africa region has average HIV/AIDS infection rates of 20%–25%. It is noteworthy that the stridently anti-gay West African countries—– Gambia, Togo, Nigeria, Ghana and Senegal have the following HIV infection rates of 2.4%, 3.2%, 3.0%, 1.9% and 0.8%, respectively. Compare that with gay-friendly South Africa’s 20% infection rate.
I agree with the concept of equality for all people regardless of race, nationality, religion and gender as defined in UN Declaration of Human Rights which explicitly reserves marriage between men and women in article 16 and does not cover gayism in anyway. I do not recognize the Western-constructed concept of “sexual orientation”, so the idea of recognizing it as a “human right” does not even arise. My opinion on this matter is shared by most of Africa’s one billion people. It is shared by most citizens of nearly 80 nations worldwide. The 2008 UN Declaration on Sexual Orientation & Gender Identity will never gain the support of majority of the world’s 192 nations. So gayism is certainly not an idea whose time has finally arrived.
If you are hallucinating, then you will definitely see changes in favour of gayism in Africa.
Deparate? Ha, ha, ha,ha. Why should I be desperate? It is the Euro-American gay lobbyists who are so desperate to push the Gay Agenda in Africa that they are dishing out thousands of dollars to useless proxy NGOs across the continent who are trying to sell a product that is fundamentally unsellable to the African people. Many clever Africans are setting up more and more NGOs to harvest a windfall from desperate Europeans and Americans who cannot wait for the Thailand-style exotic sex tourism that they dream will come from legalization of gayism.
Or they could just look at the decadent West where all the countries have less that 1%.
Jayhuck,
Unless, you have a plan to massacre Ugandans and replace them with socially liberal Americans from New England, your comment above is nonsensical wishful thinking. Please do not get carried away by the victories of euro-american gay lobby in the decadent West. In the African continent, this “forces of change” you mention only exist as figments of your own imagination. In African nations, there is overwhelming consensus that deviant sexuality has no place in our continent. What we have seen over the last few years is an attempt by external actors to provoke African people by using local proxies. Rather than create a situation where sexual depravity is viewed with sympathy, the external actors via their African proxies have generated anger and stiffer resistance from the African populace. In response, we have seen governments in the continent pass fresh legislation against gayism or amend existing ones to bolster them and amend their constitutions to remove ambiguities that might be exploited by the odd crazy activist judge to legalize the misnomer “same-sex marriage”.
I will end my commentary, by analyzing a nice anecdotal story. Here it comes:
In December 2009, a “gay engagement party” in Malawi was organized by two men under the guidance of CEDEP, a local proxy organization of the Euro-American gay lobby. The Euro-American gays had planned to provoke the Malawian State into arresting and arraigning the men in court. The hope was that Malawian judicial system will strike down the penal code on gayism on often misused grounds of “human rights”. In the likelihood of failure, the foreign gay lobbyists hoped that lies, false propaganda and economic blackmail will intimidate the poor African country into repealing its sodomy laws. But the opposite happened—- Malawians saw the hand of foreigners and this provoked massive outrage across the country. The Malawian government withstood 6 months of intimidation and blackmail in order to allow its judicial system to try the suspected sex criminals. Rather than repeal the sodomy laws, the judge delivered a dirty slap to the Euro-American Gay Lobbyists by upholding Malawian law. Having made its point by a securing a good court verdict against gayism, the Malawian government now felt comfortable with the idea of ceding some ground to the donor aid blackmailers and pardoned the sex criminals. All subsequent attempts to get gayism decriminalized have since been robustly rejected by the Malawian parliament. In a further blow to the “African investments” of the Euro-American Gay Lobbyists, one of the pardoned Malawian hirelings came back to his senses and ended his deviant sexual lifestyle. The Malawian Dirty Slap comes a year after the legislature of tiny Republic of Burundi delivered its own dirty slap by officially criminalizing gayism for the first time instead of capitulating to economic blackmail of donor aid imperialists and the Euro-American Gay Lobbyists.
.
While bluntly refusing to go into the particulars of the Zimbabwean story, I can say the quote by Irvine’s father is 100% correct and justified. Irvine should abandon that dangerous lifestyle that will make him 10000000 times more vulnerable to HIV/AIDS than individuals that don’t engage in debased sexual behaviour. He should shun pseudo-scientific propaganda about gayism being “in-born” or “genetic” and make peace with his family. If he cannot do that, he should kiss his African identity good bye and emigrate to San Francisco, where he will enjoy the “right” to live a destructive hedonistic sexual lifestyle. Lets hope that while in San Francisco, he doesn’t end up in a laboratory of the Centre for Disease and Control as a specimen for checking the spread of HIV/AIDS in the United States.
That’s a most peculiar statement.
In the US and Europe, about half of all HIV infected persons are gay men. But in Africa where “it’s unheard of”, HIV is spread overwhelmingly by heterosexuality. Africa also has 2/3 of the world’s total HIV infected persons and the nations with the highest per capita infection are all in Africa.
Some countries – Uganda included – have made inroads towards reducing infection rates, but the rates are still miles above those in the decadent West (6.4% in Uganda as opposed to about 0.4% in the US) and there are currently fears that Uganda’s shift to “abstinence only” as a prevention tool is leading to an increase again.
In fact, it would be more truthful to say that people should abandon the “Ugandan lifestyle” as it clearly is more dangerous.
Maazi is only speaking his mind on what he thinks is right. What will prevail – only time will tell. And that is a long time.
I suspect it is “unheard of” because any time someone tries to bring it up this is a typical reaction.
Maazi and others like him, even in this country, are railing against forces of change that they see as bad but cannot stop – they may slow things a bit, but in the end they will fail. That all people, regardless of their sexual orientation, skin color, national origin, religion or sex should be treated as equals is an idea whose time has finally arrived – you can see those changes happening, even in Africa, despite the increasingly tiresome use of words and phrases like “gayism” and “sexual deviants” by people like Maazi. People who resort to such terms seem somewhat desperate, to me anyway
The whole article bothered me with it’s “gee, they aren’t so bad” attitude. And that paragraph on Uganda – well, you said it all. That he didn’t mention the bill is still being considered is shoddy work.
Here is a real in-depth story with some new information on the Uganda Kill-the-Gays Bill and its architects of all places from Boise, Idaho
http://www.boiseweekly.com/boise/exporting-homophobia-american-far-right-conservative-churches-establish-influence-on-anti-gay-policy-in-africa/Content?oid=1767227
Mary,
If you really believe what you just wrote then you have no idea what the word “racism” means. You probably need to get a dictionary and re-educate yourself.
Mary,
You are quite funny. What has your Black American pastor got to do with the Ugandan people? Do you think that the Republic of Uganda and its institutions are in anyway comparable to your pentecostal church?
Mike,
Uganda as a State never looks outside its borders for any support in making legislation. One Ugandan parliamentarian and some government officials who happens to be Evangelical Christians do not constitute the Ugandan State. Our parliament and institutions are not extensions of evangelical churches. Of course, this does not mean that Ugandan evangelicals can’t arrange for their foreign friends to address parliament.
Jeffbbz,
Thanks. What an excellent post ! I could not have said it better !!
This is what I was referencing.
Maazi,
Are you a racist? I mean, do you think that white men are inferior to Ugandian men? You seem to suggest so?
Warren,
Congratulations !! It seems you are the first American to finally understand that this is not a matter that will be dropped simply because a bunch of White men—Pastor Rick Warren and friends—have decreed so. Like I have said over and over again, the Ugandan people are intelligent and have all the cognitive capabilities to make independent decisions. I wonder how long it will take you to finally understand that Western-choreographed gay activism in Uganda is dead on arrival and that fresh legislation will eventually be used to drive the nails into its coffin.
TYPO CORRECTION:
The above should have read:
Though, I will argue that many African nations now have specialized bodies in the form of “AIDS Commissions” working to create coherent INFECTION CONTROL policies….
It is also in the interest of non-Africans that they do not generalize because stereotyping renders them complete ignoramuses beyond redemption. Stereotyping is what is leading many Western firms to miss out to Chinese, Brazilian, Indian and Russian companies in the race for contracts flowing from infrastructure construction boom sweeping the continent. It is common knowledge that when Western ignoramuses look at Africa they see 1 billion hungry people who lack initiative to raise themselves from poverty, but when the BRIC nations look at Africa with more educated eyes that recognize complexity, they see 1 billion customers (or potential customers) and rush to invest their money in all of Africa including countries with little or no natural resources such as Malawi, Kenya, Mali, Senegal, Burundi and Rwanda.
No I don’t understand at all because there is nothing to stereotype. Gayism is clearly a dangerous sexual behaviour, which is makes its practitioners super-susceptible to sexually transmitted diseases compared to people who engage in man-to-woman sexual relations. Even politically-correct Western governments recognize this and take firm measures by banning the sex deviants from blood donation. I do not support the Bahati Bill in its original form, but I support its general aspirations. A refinement of the entire Bill to remove extreme punishments and other crudities is acceptable to me and most Ugandans. Alternatively, the integration of certain good provisions within the Bahati Bill into the existing Sex Offenders Act will equally be satisfactory.
I agree that we are generally talking about two entirely different epidemic models. But even within the US, HIV transmission is significantly different from what it was.
In the 80’s HIV transmission in the US was almost exclusively gay male sex related (with a small transfusing impact as well). Currently MSM make up only half of new HIV transmissions, and even within that demographic it is not uniform.
HIV/AIDS in the US is rapidly become race specific. Even among gay men, the infection rates of gay black men is significantly higher that of gay white men.
Unfortunately, the most influential factor in the African American community – the Black Church – seems to be failing to adequately address this issue.
What nonsense is this??? This is even worse than the widespread belief in the USA that Africa is a single large country.
I did not lecture the West about anything. Please read my previous commentary in a careful manner. I merely pointed out that Uganda should continue its refusal to consider the idea of legalizing gayism at the urging of hedonistic Western NGOs and their western government allies. I went further to justify my stance, by noting that the very gay-friendly western nations pressuring Uganda to accept gayism ban their own sodomy-loving citizens from donating their risky blood to hospitals to prevent runaway HIV infection rates. I cannot understand how anyone can misconstrue my statements to mean “lecturing the West on how to control HIV”.
I completely agree with this. Though, I will argue that many African nations now have specialized bodies in the form of “AIDS commissions” working to create coherent work policies. But yes, I agree that public health policies in many African nations need re-jigging to make them effective in tackling HIV/AIDS. In Uganda, the ABC policy needs to undergo some innovation to improve its effectiveness without compromising our penal codes on prostitution, narcotics and sex crimes. Like I said earlier, the Ugandan government should continue to shun Western hedonists who want to decriminalize gayism in the name of AIDS reduction in the same manner the false mantra—“gay rights is human rights”—was rejected out of hand.
The “spiritualistic sex” thing is more of a South African problem and not a huge problem in most countries in the continent. It is very important not to generalize because in West Africa, there are lots of countries with low HIV/AIDS infection rates (even as low as 0.7%).
Maazi – You don’t want others to generalize about Africa or Kenya. Fair enough, I don’t like that either when people do it about Christians or people from Southern Ohio. Perhaps now you can understand why gays react strongly to the stereotyping you and the supporters of the AHB do regarding them.
Maazi – Here is the story about sex for fish.
Didn’t know about this “transaction” among Obama’s people (i.e. the ethnic Luos). I am sure there are other ethnic groups in Kenya that will find that practice disgusting. Cultural practices varies from one ethnic group to another within Kenya. Therefore, it is important not to generalize and stereotype Kenyans as a whole. Just as cultural values varies within countries, it also varies from country to country and from region to region in our extremely diverse African continent. It is important not to generalize by compressing a continent of 1 billion people and more than 3000 ethno-linguistic nationalities into a single country by careless use of the all-encompassing term “Africa”. This is the major problem of the western media.
Zoe,
My sincere apologies for that. But with regards to your Idi Amin jibe at Ugandans, please don’t get me started on the historic ethnic cleansing and ongoing racial discrimination against the darker skinned natives of Australia and New Zealand.
Hallelujah 🙂
Jeff,
Righteous anger? Coherent and thoughtful? Really? Maazi has made assumptions, called people names, lashed out at others without really understanding or listening to them – Granted, most of us on here have done these things at one time or another, but we tend to learn from them. I have yet to read something thoughtful from Maazi. The only thing Maazi has made me feel is righteous anger
Maazi NCO wrote:
I’m not American.
If I take the liberty of assuming that you are American, then I can say that many Europeans think that you lot are barbarians for insisting on the death penalty. The last I check an overwhelming number of americans support capital punishment. Gayism is a sex crime and if that makes you think lowly of Ugandans, then so be it. Heavens will not fall.
As for the state of my sanity and indeed that most Africans, you are entitled to your views. If I extrapolate from your line of reasoning, then nearly 1 billion people on the continent are insane for not seeing sodomy as a good thing. If extrapolate your viewpoint beyond the continent, then we are looking at an epidermic of mental illness in all 77 nations of the world that criminalize sodomy
This is the problem with euro-american gay lobby. They never give people room for manoeuvres. Its always a zero-sum game— all or nothing. You have Mary an American who is somewhat sympathetic to sex deviants being denounced by an apologist for gay sex. Similarly, Carrie Prejean was denied Miss USA crown for simply saying that she could not support gay marriage, though she generally supported the misnomer called “gay rights”. Unlike people like Mary, Africans will never make room for compromise on this matter.Yeah, it is equally a zero-sum game for us as well.
Not a pentecostal church. But then Maazi, you have made so many assumptions that answering you further or argueing with you over racial comments does not seem worth the effort.
Mary,
My statements still stand even if your church is not pentecostal. Yes–you are probably right that we shouldn’t argue any more since you clearly have no understanding of what the term “racism” mean.
Jayhuck,
What are you talking about? I sense that you are frustrated because an African was able to properly articulate— in a coherent and thoughtful manner —-his nation’s position on aberrant sexuality. Gayism is an abomination and a sex crime as far as most Africans are concerned. If you are intelligent, you will realize that trying to change our minds on this matter is far more difficult than trying to convince Western governments to decriminalize and legally protect polygamy (a.k.a “bigamy”).
Mary,
You seem to be an intelligent woman. So I am rather disappointed to see your statement above. Now lets go back to my quote—-
My statement is made within the context of what pervades in the Western media. The way this issue has been reported in your media can be summarized as follows:
[1] It was the American christian fundamentalists that were responsible for the Bahati Bill. Ugandans had little or no input in it. The White Americans instructed them to further criminalize gayism and they obeyed.
[2] The reality is that the Bahati Bill was independently written by an educated Ugandan who invited his foreign friends to address our parliament in a way not too dissimilar to United States Congress inviting foreigners or fellow Americans to address them and share their views. But in the Western media, this reality is thoroughly rubbished because in the mindsets of western journalists, Africans are slow and never that complex. They are simpletons who need to be led by superior white men. Rick Warren and his friends did not come to offer their opinions on gayism, they came and ordered the child-like Ugandan parliamentarians to simply write new law on gayism and the Ugandans promptly obeyed their white masters without question.
[3] Given the scenario above in [2], according to the Western media, the solution to the “problem” is simple— pressure the same white men to simply command the obsequious unthinking Black Africans to scrap the plans for the new law.
My first posting simply congratulates Warren for being the first American to realize that the western media theory as explained in [2] and [3] is complete nonsense. I look forward to a time when he will realize that his blog campaign is an exercise in great futility.
Good point, Michael. And they are white, too.
Yes, our country has gone through a rough patch and still has lots of outstanding issues, but which country doesn’t have issues. Was it not in America that they passed a libertarian constitution that granted rights and equality to all people, while slavery was taking place? Even Thomas Jefferson and his band of brother founding fathers were keeping slaves and raping the female ones among them while they were busy appending their signatures to “We the People of the United States….” Was America not the same country where racial discrimination was codified into law for centuries?
Was America not the same country, where Japanese Americans—many of whom had relatives serving in the United States Armed Forces– were interned in hellish camps during World War II for no other reason other than their race? Funnily enough, General Dwight Eisenhower’s people—Americans of German ancestry—were not similarly interned. Could it be because they were white?
Was America not the country where Blacks were used as guinea pigs in the 1930s experiments for a cure for syphilis? Was America not the same country that overthrew the democratically-elected Congolese government of Patrice Lumumba and installed its own puppet, the kleptocratic military dictator Mobutu Sese seko? Is America not the same country that used Mobutu Sese seko of DR Congo (then called Zaire) to covertly supply the terrorist murderers of RENAMO and UNITA to fight the legitimate governments of neighbouring Mozambique and Angola respectively, thereby spawning a civil war that took more than 2 decades to resolve? Was it not America that sent its sons to go and die in a futile imperial war in Vietnam? Was it not America via its School of the Americas that trained death squad soldiers for murderous right-wing dictatorships throughout Latin America?
Was America not the same country that vetoed UN resolutions condemning the apartheid regime sixteen times? The same nation that blacklisted Mandela and leading ANC leaders as terrorists and lifted the blacklist officially only in 2008? Is it not the same country that went sanctions-busting, supplying the white supremacist South African regime with weapons and other essentials that allowed it to preserve itself for more than 40 years?
Please don’t get me started with more from your nation’s sordid past….
So you are pointing to the idea that whites are not supporting the Ugandian Bill. That’s a racist comment.
I don’t agree with you. In fact, the main pastor at my church is a black man. They don’t support criminalization of homosexuals at our church. We offer a place for them to meet, talk through the conflicts they have, and walk with them through the struggle. Our focus is not to try and change people into heterosexuals but to focus on holiness. I am amazed at how the Holy Spirit has worked to change perspectives of people and their lives. Not everyone walks away from gayism but neither did we abandon them in a prison cell.
When Uganda was looking for Western support for this Bill, why were Don Schmierer, Scott Lively and Caleb Brundidge the best Uganda could find? Why look to such “experts” for help? More to the point, why call on Americans at all?
While you wrote on Sharlet’s piece in the Sept. Harpers before, you might mention it again here for contrast and comparison.
Racist? Not IMHO. Patriot, yes. Nationalist, yes. But when you come from the country that spawned His Excellency President for Life, Field Marshal Al Hadji Doctor Idi Amin, VC, DSO, MC, Lord of All the Beasts of the Earth and Fishes of the Sea, and Conqueror of the British Empire in Africa in General and Uganda in Particular“.. then one is bound to be a little sensitive to outside criticism.
Within living memory, Uganda was a sad joke. The Ugandans re-civilised themselves after that era, a task I think few of the peoples on Earth could have managed.
That’s not to say I agree with him, and I think the ethnic cleansing of asians and jews permanently damaged his nation. He may disagree with that though.
Being patriotic and/or nationalistic doesn’t make you good – or kind, or compassionate…
It is also in the interest of non-Africans that they do not generalize because stereotyping renders them complete ignoramuses beyond redemption. Stereotyping is what is leading many Western firms to miss out to Chinese, Brazilian, Indian and Russian companies in the race for contracts flowing from infrastructure construction boom sweeping the continent. It is common knowledge that when Western ignoramuses look at Africa they see 1 billion hungry people who lack initiative to raise themselves from poverty, but when the BRIC nations look at Africa with more educated eyes that recognize complexity, they see 1 billion customers (or potential customers) and rush to invest their money in all of Africa including countries with little or no natural resources such as Malawi, Kenya, Mali, Senegal, Burundi and Rwanda.
No I don’t understand at all because there is nothing to stereotype. Gayism is clearly a dangerous sexual behaviour, which is makes its practitioners super-susceptible to sexually transmitted diseases compared to people who engage in man-to-woman sexual relations. Even politically-correct Western governments recognize this and take firm measures by banning the sex deviants from blood donation. I do not support the Bahati Bill in its original form, but I support its general aspirations. A refinement of the entire Bill to remove extreme punishments and other crudities is acceptable to me and most Ugandans. Alternatively, the integration of certain good provisions within the Bahati Bill into the existing Sex Offenders Act will equally be satisfactory.
Maazi – You don’t want others to generalize about Africa or Kenya. Fair enough, I don’t like that either when people do it about Christians or people from Southern Ohio. Perhaps now you can understand why gays react strongly to the stereotyping you and the supporters of the AHB do regarding them.
Didn’t know about this “transaction” among Obama’s people (i.e. the ethnic Luos). I am sure there are other ethnic groups in Kenya that will find that practice disgusting. Cultural practices varies from one ethnic group to another within Kenya. Therefore, it is important not to generalize and stereotype Kenyans as a whole. Just as cultural values varies within countries, it also varies from country to country and from region to region in our extremely diverse African continent. It is important not to generalize by compressing a continent of 1 billion people and more than 3000 ethno-linguistic nationalities into a single country by careless use of the all-encompassing term “Africa”. This is the major problem of the western media.
TYPO CORRECTION:
The above should have read:
Though, I will argue that many African nations now have specialized bodies in the form of “AIDS Commissions” working to create coherent INFECTION CONTROL policies….
Maazi – Here is the story about sex for fish.
What nonsense is this??? This is even worse than the widespread belief in the USA that Africa is a single large country.
I did not lecture the West about anything. Please read my previous commentary in a careful manner. I merely pointed out that Uganda should continue its refusal to consider the idea of legalizing gayism at the urging of hedonistic Western NGOs and their western government allies. I went further to justify my stance, by noting that the very gay-friendly western nations pressuring Uganda to accept gayism ban their own sodomy-loving citizens from donating their risky blood to hospitals to prevent runaway HIV infection rates. I cannot understand how anyone can misconstrue my statements to mean “lecturing the West on how to control HIV”.
I completely agree with this. Though, I will argue that many African nations now have specialized bodies in the form of “AIDS commissions” working to create coherent work policies. But yes, I agree that public health policies in many African nations need re-jigging to make them effective in tackling HIV/AIDS. In Uganda, the ABC policy needs to undergo some innovation to improve its effectiveness without compromising our penal codes on prostitution, narcotics and sex crimes. Like I said earlier, the Ugandan government should continue to shun Western hedonists who want to decriminalize gayism in the name of AIDS reduction in the same manner the false mantra—“gay rights is human rights”—was rejected out of hand.
The “spiritualistic sex” thing is more of a South African problem and not a huge problem in most countries in the continent. It is very important not to generalize because in West Africa, there are lots of countries with low HIV/AIDS infection rates (even as low as 0.7%).
I agree that we are generally talking about two entirely different epidemic models. But even within the US, HIV transmission is significantly different from what it was.
In the 80’s HIV transmission in the US was almost exclusively gay male sex related (with a small transfusing impact as well). Currently MSM make up only half of new HIV transmissions, and even within that demographic it is not uniform.
HIV/AIDS in the US is rapidly become race specific. Even among gay men, the infection rates of gay black men is significantly higher that of gay white men.
Unfortunately, the most influential factor in the African American community – the Black Church – seems to be failing to adequately address this issue.
David – Pretty much the driver of HIV in Africa is transactional sex (e.g., in Kenya, sex for fish among fish traders and fishermen), and sexual networks among straights. The superstitions do drive some of it but the studies I have seen implicate the first two factors much more – the epidemics there are general ones, not localized as here.
Probably if the comparisons are unfair it is to unfairly compare epidemic types – general vs. localized. However, I think the response to Maazi stands. It seems like hubris to lecture the West on controlling HIV via avoidance of sexual license when same is involved in driving the higher rates in your backyard.
Don’t get me wrong: As as public health policy, I still favor what we have written about – Abstinence, fidelity and condoms for those who will not do the first two. I think the public health terms are delayed debut and partner reduction but you know what I mean.
Warren and Tim,
Apples to Apples, Oranges to Oranges…
Western culture (whether European or US) is still genetically and socially heavily influenced by Christian principals regarding sexuality. One of those Christian principals is that sex not be used coercively for shamanistic purposes to rid one of AIDS (superstition).
It is best to compare Western culture with Western culture…as any good social scientist would argue.
The Ugandan model is superior to several African countries with similar demographics. It is best to compare states with similar cultures and demographics when discussing whose model is most effective.
AIDS and HIV are the dependent variable. Reckless sexual behavior is often the independent variable (sometimes fostered by empty impulsive values of the West; sometimes fostered by superstitious ‘cures’ in shamanistic cultures).
African AIDS and HIV rates are terrifying due to a lack of public health policy which is effective and spiritual practices which may fuel the disease.
Western AIDS and HIV rates are much less terrifying due to a coherent public health policy and spiritual practices which do not fuel the disease.
Agreed Mary.
Warren and Tim,
Apples to Apples, Oranges to Oranges…
Western culture (whether European or US) is still genetically and socially heavily influenced by Christian principals regarding sexuality. One of those Christian principals is that sex not be used coercively for shamanistic purposes to rid one of AIDS (superstition).
It is best to compare Western culture with Western culture…as any good social scientist would argue.
The Ugandan model is superior to several African countries with similar demographics. It is best to compare states with similar cultures and demographics when discussing whose model is most effective.
AIDS and HIV are the dependent variable. Reckless sexual behavior is often the independent variable (sometimes fostered by empty impulsive values of the West; sometimes fostered by superstitious ‘cures’ in shamanistic cultures).
African AIDS and HIV rates are terrifying due to a lack of public health policy which is effective and spiritual practices which may fuel the disease.
Western AIDS and HIV rates are much less terrifying due to a coherent public health policy and spiritual practices which do not fuel the disease.
Agreed Mary.
I just don’t understand why people in general are not taking sexual conduct seriously regardless of the country or hemisphere of the globe they inhabit. Why do we have such a problem with people not respecting their own bodies or the bodies of others? Really? Are we all so out of control that we can’t stomp out AIDS in a generation? So far, no culture has answered the conflict. We’ve tried to manage it – yet, new cases are reported everyday.
I just don’t understand why people in general are not taking sexual conduct seriously regardless of the country or hemisphere of the globe they inhabit. Why do we have such a problem with people not respecting their own bodies or the bodies of others? Really? Are we all so out of control that we can’t stomp out AIDS in a generation? So far, no culture has answered the conflict. We’ve tried to manage it – yet, new cases are reported everyday.
Thanks Tim
Thanks Tim
No thanks.
Maazi – Do you have any answer to Timothy’s data? You want to make a comparison between South Africa and anti-gay countries, but if you continue with your comparisons you find the hell-in-a-hand-basket West lower still.
Or they could just look at the decadent West where all the countries have less that 1%.
All the more reason why we need to beat gayism back without compromise in order to prevent a future exponential rise in HIV/AIDS infections from the current 6.4%.
The ABC (“Abstinence/Be faithful/use Condom”) policy was very effective in reducing AIDS from double to single digits. The “Abstinence” part of the policy played a very strong role in the decline of HIV/AIDS infection rates. This fact is quite inconvenient for western social liberals who initially derided policy for not focusing entirely on condoms since in their hedonistic mindset, humans are beasts incapable of controlling their sexual desires. Despite doomsday predictions by the hedonists, the ABC policy worked. Today, the hedonists are predicting an epidermic of AIDS unless gayism is decriminalized. Apparently their propaganda strategy of equating “gay rights” to “human rights” has failed to move Africans by a single inch. I am sure this new Western strategy of linking decriminalization of gayism to lower HIV infection rates will also fail woefully as well.
What the Ugandan health authorities need at this stage is a bit of innovation to make the ABC policy work better—– better sensitization of the public, better delivery systems for medicines and extending treatment to groups most likely to catch the disease without compromising our penal code on narcotics, prostitution and sex crimes. These authorities remain steadfast in ignoring propaganda backed with dubious data which links acceptance of gayism with lower AIDS rates. Even gay-friendly western nations ban sex deviants from donating their risky blood to hospitals to prevent runaway HIV/AIDS infection rates.
Uganda should look to West Africa to see why their HIV/AIDS levels are very low with infection rates ranging from less than 1% to 5% on average. The badly affected Southern Africa region has average HIV/AIDS infection rates of 20%–25%. It is noteworthy that the stridently anti-gay West African countries—– Gambia, Togo, Nigeria, Ghana and Senegal have the following HIV infection rates of 2.4%, 3.2%, 3.0%, 1.9% and 0.8%, respectively. Compare that with gay-friendly South Africa’s 20% infection rate.
No thanks.
Maazi – Do you have any answer to Timothy’s data? You want to make a comparison between South Africa and anti-gay countries, but if you continue with your comparisons you find the hell-in-a-hand-basket West lower still.
That’s a most peculiar statement.
In the US and Europe, about half of all HIV infected persons are gay men. But in Africa where “it’s unheard of”, HIV is spread overwhelmingly by heterosexuality. Africa also has 2/3 of the world’s total HIV infected persons and the nations with the highest per capita infection are all in Africa.
Some countries – Uganda included – have made inroads towards reducing infection rates, but the rates are still miles above those in the decadent West (6.4% in Uganda as opposed to about 0.4% in the US) and there are currently fears that Uganda’s shift to “abstinence only” as a prevention tool is leading to an increase again.
In fact, it would be more truthful to say that people should abandon the “Ugandan lifestyle” as it clearly is more dangerous.
You are getting paranoid my friend. I am no one’s plant.
You are entitled to your opinions, but I can confidently say that my viewpoint is representative of most Africans on the subject of gayism. My main purpose of being here is to present alternative opinion shared by most Africans. Without alternative opinions, this blog might well be a case of euro-american gay propagandists preaching to the pink choir
I am glad to see that you view me as entertainment. I have no problem with that— provided you do understand that most Africans are serious when they denounce gay lifestyle as inhuman, depraved, un-African and a hedonistic import from the West.
I’m now convinced that this Maazi person is a plant come here to amuse us. What he writes is too silly for anyone to really believe it. Perhaps he’s working for the Onion or JoeMyGod. Whoever it is I say it’s satire and I congratulate him on taking the time to actually write all that stuff down. By expressing such ridiculously extreme positions he exposes them for the childish fantasies they are. I say, bravo. Gave me a good laugh this morning.
You are getting paranoid my friend. I am no one’s plant.
You are entitled to your opinions, but I can confidently say that my viewpoint is representative of most Africans on the subject of gayism. My main purpose of being here is to present alternative opinion shared by most Africans. Without alternative opinions, this blog might well be a case of euro-american gay propagandists preaching to the pink choir
I am glad to see that you view me as entertainment. I have no problem with that— provided you do understand that most Africans are serious when they denounce gay lifestyle as inhuman, depraved, un-African and a hedonistic import from the West.
I’m now convinced that this Maazi person is a plant come here to amuse us. What he writes is too silly for anyone to really believe it. Perhaps he’s working for the Onion or JoeMyGod. Whoever it is I say it’s satire and I congratulate him on taking the time to actually write all that stuff down. By expressing such ridiculously extreme positions he exposes them for the childish fantasies they are. I say, bravo. Gave me a good laugh this morning.
I agree with the concept of equality for all people regardless of race, nationality, religion and gender as defined in UN Declaration of Human Rights which explicitly reserves marriage between men and women in article 16 and does not cover gayism in anyway. I do not recognize the Western-constructed concept of “sexual orientation”, so the idea of recognizing it as a “human right” does not even arise. My opinion on this matter is shared by most of Africa’s one billion people. It is shared by most citizens of nearly 80 nations worldwide. The 2008 UN Declaration on Sexual Orientation & Gender Identity will never gain the support of majority of the world’s 192 nations. So gayism is certainly not an idea whose time has finally arrived.
If you are hallucinating, then you will definitely see changes in favour of gayism in Africa.
Deparate? Ha, ha, ha,ha. Why should I be desperate? It is the Euro-American gay lobbyists who are so desperate to push the Gay Agenda in Africa that they are dishing out thousands of dollars to useless proxy NGOs across the continent who are trying to sell a product that is fundamentally unsellable to the African people. Many clever Africans are setting up more and more NGOs to harvest a windfall from desperate Europeans and Americans who cannot wait for the Thailand-style exotic sex tourism that they dream will come from legalization of gayism.
Maazi is only speaking his mind on what he thinks is right. What will prevail – only time will tell. And that is a long time.
.
While bluntly refusing to go into the particulars of the Zimbabwean story, I can say the quote by Irvine’s father is 100% correct and justified. Irvine should abandon that dangerous lifestyle that will make him 10000000 times more vulnerable to HIV/AIDS than individuals that don’t engage in debased sexual behaviour. He should shun pseudo-scientific propaganda about gayism being “in-born” or “genetic” and make peace with his family. If he cannot do that, he should kiss his African identity good bye and emigrate to San Francisco, where he will enjoy the “right” to live a destructive hedonistic sexual lifestyle. Lets hope that while in San Francisco, he doesn’t end up in a laboratory of the Centre for Disease and Control as a specimen for checking the spread of HIV/AIDS in the United States.
Jayhuck,
Unless, you have a plan to massacre Ugandans and replace them with socially liberal Americans from New England, your comment above is nonsensical wishful thinking. Please do not get carried away by the victories of euro-american gay lobby in the decadent West. In the African continent, this “forces of change” you mention only exist as figments of your own imagination. In African nations, there is overwhelming consensus that deviant sexuality has no place in our continent. What we have seen over the last few years is an attempt by external actors to provoke African people by using local proxies. Rather than create a situation where sexual depravity is viewed with sympathy, the external actors via their African proxies have generated anger and stiffer resistance from the African populace. In response, we have seen governments in the continent pass fresh legislation against gayism or amend existing ones to bolster them and amend their constitutions to remove ambiguities that might be exploited by the odd crazy activist judge to legalize the misnomer “same-sex marriage”.
I will end my commentary, by analyzing a nice anecdotal story. Here it comes:
In December 2009, a “gay engagement party” in Malawi was organized by two men under the guidance of CEDEP, a local proxy organization of the Euro-American gay lobby. The Euro-American gays had planned to provoke the Malawian State into arresting and arraigning the men in court. The hope was that Malawian judicial system will strike down the penal code on gayism on often misused grounds of “human rights”. In the likelihood of failure, the foreign gay lobbyists hoped that lies, false propaganda and economic blackmail will intimidate the poor African country into repealing its sodomy laws. But the opposite happened—- Malawians saw the hand of foreigners and this provoked massive outrage across the country. The Malawian government withstood 6 months of intimidation and blackmail in order to allow its judicial system to try the suspected sex criminals. Rather than repeal the sodomy laws, the judge delivered a dirty slap to the Euro-American Gay Lobbyists by upholding Malawian law. Having made its point by a securing a good court verdict against gayism, the Malawian government now felt comfortable with the idea of ceding some ground to the donor aid blackmailers and pardoned the sex criminals. All subsequent attempts to get gayism decriminalized have since been robustly rejected by the Malawian parliament. In a further blow to the “African investments” of the Euro-American Gay Lobbyists, one of the pardoned Malawian hirelings came back to his senses and ended his deviant sexual lifestyle. The Malawian Dirty Slap comes a year after the legislature of tiny Republic of Burundi delivered its own dirty slap by officially criminalizing gayism for the first time instead of capitulating to economic blackmail of donor aid imperialists and the Euro-American Gay Lobbyists.
I suspect it is “unheard of” because any time someone tries to bring it up this is a typical reaction.
Maazi is quite fond of telling us how decadent that the West is compared to the good moral people of Africa in general and Uganda in particular.
Here’s a little tale out of Zimbabwe.
Yes, Uganda and Zimbabwe are different countries, different societies, and different cultures. They are Bulawayo and Kampala are 1,250 miles apart, as far as New York and Ft. Lauderdale.
But I wonder if Maazi would consider this an example of Africans having a higher sense of morality than Americans.
Maazi and others like him, even in this country, are railing against forces of change that they see as bad but cannot stop – they may slow things a bit, but in the end they will fail. That all people, regardless of their sexual orientation, skin color, national origin, religion or sex should be treated as equals is an idea whose time has finally arrived – you can see those changes happening, even in Africa, despite the increasingly tiresome use of words and phrases like “gayism” and “sexual deviants” by people like Maazi. People who resort to such terms seem somewhat desperate, to me anyway
The whole article bothered me with it’s “gee, they aren’t so bad” attitude. And that paragraph on Uganda – well, you said it all. That he didn’t mention the bill is still being considered is shoddy work.
Maazi is quite fond of telling us how decadent that the West is compared to the good moral people of Africa in general and Uganda in particular.
Here’s a little tale out of Zimbabwe.
Yes, Uganda and Zimbabwe are different countries, different societies, and different cultures. They are Bulawayo and Kampala are 1,250 miles apart, as far as New York and Ft. Lauderdale.
But I wonder if Maazi would consider this an example of Africans having a higher sense of morality than Americans.
Ah, yes, yes—-Kampala is in the state of Idaho
Here is a real in-depth story with some new information on the Uganda Kill-the-Gays Bill and its architects of all places from Boise, Idaho
http://www.boiseweekly.com/boise/exporting-homophobia-american-far-right-conservative-churches-establish-influence-on-anti-gay-policy-in-africa/Content?oid=1767227
Ah, yes, yes—-Kampala is in the state of Idaho
I see, if someone disagrees with you, they are incorrect? Hmmmm? Interesting way of organizing your positions.
It is my understanding that if you point to a person’s skin color instead of their character or other traits then you are focusing on their racial features.
But, Maazi, you have become belligerent recently and I don’t feel comfortable with your tone.
Well, if you insist… but how are we to better ourselves if we don’t get perspectives from those elsewhere? It would be most useful if you confined your critique to this century of course, but any time after 1968 will do.
I’d be interested to hear your views on the issues. Maybe to correct a few misconceptions, but more importantly, to be made aware of problems that need correcting.
BTW New Zealand is a separate country from Australia – just as Saudi Arabia is a separate country from Uganda. The distances between the two are similar. And the Maori colonised Aoteoroa just a few decades before the Spanish colonised America – the families can trace their ancestry back to specific boats of the colonist fleet.
I see, if someone disagrees with you, they are incorrect? Hmmmm? Interesting way of organizing your positions.
It is my understanding that if you point to a person’s skin color instead of their character or other traits then you are focusing on their racial features.
But, Maazi, you have become belligerent recently and I don’t feel comfortable with your tone.
If I take the liberty of assuming that you are American, then I can say that many Europeans think that you lot are barbarians for insisting on the death penalty. The last I check an overwhelming number of americans support capital punishment. Gayism is a sex crime and if that makes you think lowly of Ugandans, then so be it. Heavens will not fall.
As for the state of my sanity and indeed that most Africans, you are entitled to your views. If I extrapolate from your line of reasoning, then nearly 1 billion people on the continent are insane for not seeing sodomy as a good thing. If extrapolate your viewpoint beyond the continent, then we are looking at an epidermic of mental illness in all 77 nations of the world that criminalize sodomy
This is the problem with euro-american gay lobby. They never give people room for manoeuvres. Its always a zero-sum game— all or nothing. You have Mary an American who is somewhat sympathetic to sex deviants being denounced by an apologist for gay sex. Similarly, Carrie Prejean was denied Miss USA crown for simply saying that she could not support gay marriage, though she generally supported the misnomer called “gay rights”. Unlike people like Mary, Africans will never make room for compromise on this matter.Yeah, it is equally a zero-sum game for us as well.
Well, if you insist… but how are we to better ourselves if we don’t get perspectives from those elsewhere? It would be most useful if you confined your critique to this century of course, but any time after 1968 will do.
I’d be interested to hear your views on the issues. Maybe to correct a few misconceptions, but more importantly, to be made aware of problems that need correcting.
BTW New Zealand is a separate country from Australia – just as Saudi Arabia is a separate country from Uganda. The distances between the two are similar. And the Maori colonised Aoteoroa just a few decades before the Spanish colonised America – the families can trace their ancestry back to specific boats of the colonist fleet.
Zoe,
My sincere apologies for that. But with regards to your Idi Amin jibe at Ugandans, please don’t get me started on the historic ethnic cleansing and ongoing racial discrimination against the darker skinned natives of Australia and New Zealand.
Mary,
My statements still stand even if your church is not pentecostal. Yes–you are probably right that we shouldn’t argue any more since you clearly have no understanding of what the term “racism” mean.
Jayhuck,
What are you talking about? I sense that you are frustrated because an African was able to properly articulate— in a coherent and thoughtful manner —-his nation’s position on aberrant sexuality. Gayism is an abomination and a sex crime as far as most Africans are concerned. If you are intelligent, you will realize that trying to change our minds on this matter is far more difficult than trying to convince Western governments to decriminalize and legally protect polygamy (a.k.a “bigamy”).
This is like reading an abstract of mental illness written in the perspective of the insane. The conversation between Maazi and Mary is like hearing Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer discussing whether it’s better to eat or bury their kill when they discuss “gayism” (which made me shudder). To Maazi, while I respect self-determination of people and governments, I can only suggest that the Bahati Bill, you so proudly defends as original, advocates crimes against humanity; making a bright line from Amin to you. And Mary…what can be said of people who are so generous with their tolerance of people suffering “Gayism” that they are allowed a space in a church to meet and discuss the suffering that will befall them in the afterlife. Your charity is reprehensible in presuming that people who are different from you need to be helped and cured with your vision of god. You claim to have faith in god and dare to question the judgement of his creations; you embody the ultimate sin of vanity.
This is like reading an abstract of mental illness written in the perspective of the insane. The conversation between Maazi and Mary is like hearing Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer discussing whether it’s better to eat or bury their kill when they discuss “gayism” (which made me shudder). To Maazi, while I respect self-determination of people and governments, I can only suggest that the Bahati Bill, you so proudly defends as original, advocates crimes against humanity; making a bright line from Amin to you. And Mary…what can be said of people who are so generous with their tolerance of people suffering “Gayism” that they are allowed a space in a church to meet and discuss the suffering that will befall them in the afterlife. Your charity is reprehensible in presuming that people who are different from you need to be helped and cured with your vision of god. You claim to have faith in god and dare to question the judgement of his creations; you embody the ultimate sin of vanity.
Maazi NCO wrote:
I’m not American.
Hallelujah 🙂
Jeff,
Righteous anger? Coherent and thoughtful? Really? Maazi has made assumptions, called people names, lashed out at others without really understanding or listening to them – Granted, most of us on here have done these things at one time or another, but we tend to learn from them. I have yet to read something thoughtful from Maazi. The only thing Maazi has made me feel is righteous anger
Not a pentecostal church. But then Maazi, you have made so many assumptions that answering you further or argueing with you over racial comments does not seem worth the effort.
Mary,
If you really believe what you just wrote then you have no idea what the word “racism” means. You probably need to get a dictionary and re-educate yourself.
Mary,
You are quite funny. What has your Black American pastor got to do with the Ugandan people? Do you think that the Republic of Uganda and its institutions are in anyway comparable to your pentecostal church?
Mike,
Uganda as a State never looks outside its borders for any support in making legislation. One Ugandan parliamentarian and some government officials who happens to be Evangelical Christians do not constitute the Ugandan State. Our parliament and institutions are not extensions of evangelical churches. Of course, this does not mean that Ugandan evangelicals can’t arrange for their foreign friends to address parliament.
Jeffbbz,
Thanks. What an excellent post ! I could not have said it better !!
Good point, Michael. And they are white, too.
When Uganda was looking for Western support for this Bill, why were Don Schmierer, Scott Lively and Caleb Brundidge the best Uganda could find? Why look to such “experts” for help? More to the point, why call on Americans at all?
So you are pointing to the idea that whites are not supporting the Ugandian Bill. That’s a racist comment.
I don’t agree with you. In fact, the main pastor at my church is a black man. They don’t support criminalization of homosexuals at our church. We offer a place for them to meet, talk through the conflicts they have, and walk with them through the struggle. Our focus is not to try and change people into heterosexuals but to focus on holiness. I am amazed at how the Holy Spirit has worked to change perspectives of people and their lives. Not everyone walks away from gayism but neither did we abandon them in a prison cell.
Yes, our country has gone through a rough patch and still has lots of outstanding issues, but which country doesn’t have issues. Was it not in America that they passed a libertarian constitution that granted rights and equality to all people, while slavery was taking place? Even Thomas Jefferson and his band of brother founding fathers were keeping slaves and raping the female ones among them while they were busy appending their signatures to “We the People of the United States….” Was America not the same country where racial discrimination was codified into law for centuries?
Was America not the same country, where Japanese Americans—many of whom had relatives serving in the United States Armed Forces– were interned in hellish camps during World War II for no other reason other than their race? Funnily enough, General Dwight Eisenhower’s people—Americans of German ancestry—were not similarly interned. Could it be because they were white?
Was America not the country where Blacks were used as guinea pigs in the 1930s experiments for a cure for syphilis? Was America not the same country that overthrew the democratically-elected Congolese government of Patrice Lumumba and installed its own puppet, the kleptocratic military dictator Mobutu Sese seko? Is America not the same country that used Mobutu Sese seko of DR Congo (then called Zaire) to covertly supply the terrorist murderers of RENAMO and UNITA to fight the legitimate governments of neighbouring Mozambique and Angola respectively, thereby spawning a civil war that took more than 2 decades to resolve? Was it not America that sent its sons to go and die in a futile imperial war in Vietnam? Was it not America via its School of the Americas that trained death squad soldiers for murderous right-wing dictatorships throughout Latin America?
Was America not the same country that vetoed UN resolutions condemning the apartheid regime sixteen times? The same nation that blacklisted Mandela and leading ANC leaders as terrorists and lifted the blacklist officially only in 2008? Is it not the same country that went sanctions-busting, supplying the white supremacist South African regime with weapons and other essentials that allowed it to preserve itself for more than 40 years?
Please don’t get me started with more from your nation’s sordid past….
.
I completely agree. Don’t really care about race and I am not as sensitive to race issues as your local AA people back in the United States.
I do not object to criticism. But what we have seen over the past year is not constructive criticism. Foreigners have been threatening Uganda with withdrawal of nonsensical donor aid and bluffing about economic boycotts because our parliament tried to exercise sovereign right to pass legislation. In addition to threats, euro-american gay lobby and their media allies has been spreading lies about a mythical gay genocide in the making.
The statement above is complete nonsense and has little or no meaning.
.
Jews? What on earth are you talking about? Which Jews? Please do not confuse Nazi Germany for Uganda, Okay? What was done to Ugandan Indians was wrong and that has been settled now. Many of them returned to Uganda in the post-Idi Amin era and reclaimed their properties or received compensation. Despite some racial tensions, the Indians that returned have since re-integrated into society. A Ugandan Indian contested an election and won a parliamentary seat. There are quite a few in local politics.
Mary,
You seem to be an intelligent woman. So I am rather disappointed to see your statement above. Now lets go back to my quote—-
My statement is made within the context of what pervades in the Western media. The way this issue has been reported in your media can be summarized as follows:
[1] It was the American christian fundamentalists that were responsible for the Bahati Bill. Ugandans had little or no input in it. The White Americans instructed them to further criminalize gayism and they obeyed.
[2] The reality is that the Bahati Bill was independently written by an educated Ugandan who invited his foreign friends to address our parliament in a way not too dissimilar to United States Congress inviting foreigners or fellow Americans to address them and share their views. But in the Western media, this reality is thoroughly rubbished because in the mindsets of western journalists, Africans are slow and never that complex. They are simpletons who need to be led by superior white men. Rick Warren and his friends did not come to offer their opinions on gayism, they came and ordered the child-like Ugandan parliamentarians to simply write new law on gayism and the Ugandans promptly obeyed their white masters without question.
[3] Given the scenario above in [2], according to the Western media, the solution to the “problem” is simple— pressure the same white men to simply command the obsequious unthinking Black Africans to scrap the plans for the new law.
My first posting simply congratulates Warren for being the first American to realize that the western media theory as explained in [2] and [3] is complete nonsense. I look forward to a time when he will realize that his blog campaign is an exercise in great futility.
.
I completely agree. Don’t really care about race and I am not as sensitive to race issues as your local AA people back in the United States.
I do not object to criticism. But what we have seen over the past year is not constructive criticism. Foreigners have been threatening Uganda with withdrawal of nonsensical donor aid and bluffing about economic boycotts because our parliament tried to exercise sovereign right to pass legislation. In addition to threats, euro-american gay lobby and their media allies has been spreading lies about a mythical gay genocide in the making.
The statement above is complete nonsense and has little or no meaning.
.
Jews? What on earth are you talking about? Which Jews? Please do not confuse Nazi Germany for Uganda, Okay? What was done to Ugandan Indians was wrong and that has been settled now. Many of them returned to Uganda in the post-Idi Amin era and reclaimed their properties or received compensation. Despite some racial tensions, the Indians that returned have since re-integrated into society. A Ugandan Indian contested an election and won a parliamentary seat. There are quite a few in local politics.
Mary and most commenters, you seem to have a poor understanding of the racial dynamics of our world. Additionally, you seem to lack understanding of what real racism is. Did you seriously just respond to a person facing the serious racial discrimination that Africans (and really any people of color) face in this world by asking if they are actually the real racist?
In which place did he suggest this in anyway?
Where did Maazi say anything at all related to patriotism or nationalism? What are you even talking about?
Additionally he never said anything about Ugandans being “too intelligent.” It’s telling that you would misconstrue a claim that Ugandans are intelligent and not in need of constant condescension and interference from white people into something with a totally different meaning.
Again, are you serious? Maazi made a coherent and thoughtful comment. Perhaps you are uncomfortable by the fact that it contains (a small hint) of righteous anger which challenges your idea of the world and possibly brings you guilt even though its not even directed at you?
A better idea, let’s talk about the post, its contents, and its surroundings.
Hazmyth,
I know! The longer Maazi goes on the more inconsistencies he makes. He negates himself. Beginning to wonder if he is a real person.
It’s somewhat ironic to claim that ‘Ugandans’ are too intelligent to be manipulated by the global north (or “white people” or whatever) and then imply that gay activists (who are also, as it happens, Ugandans) have been thus manipulated.
This is what I was referencing.
If Maazi truly speaks for all Ugandans then I say leave them to their sandbox – let the rest of the world go on
Being patriotic and/or nationalistic doesn’t make you good – or kind, or compassionate…
Racist? Not IMHO. Patriot, yes. Nationalist, yes. But when you come from the country that spawned His Excellency President for Life, Field Marshal Al Hadji Doctor Idi Amin, VC, DSO, MC, Lord of All the Beasts of the Earth and Fishes of the Sea, and Conqueror of the British Empire in Africa in General and Uganda in Particular“.. then one is bound to be a little sensitive to outside criticism.
Within living memory, Uganda was a sad joke. The Ugandans re-civilised themselves after that era, a task I think few of the peoples on Earth could have managed.
That’s not to say I agree with him, and I think the ethnic cleansing of asians and jews permanently damaged his nation. He may disagree with that though.
Maazi,
Are you a racist? I mean, do you think that white men are inferior to Ugandian men? You seem to suggest so?
Mary and most commenters, you seem to have a poor understanding of the racial dynamics of our world. Additionally, you seem to lack understanding of what real racism is. Did you seriously just respond to a person facing the serious racial discrimination that Africans (and really any people of color) face in this world by asking if they are actually the real racist?
In which place did he suggest this in anyway?
Where did Maazi say anything at all related to patriotism or nationalism? What are you even talking about?
Additionally he never said anything about Ugandans being “too intelligent.” It’s telling that you would misconstrue a claim that Ugandans are intelligent and not in need of constant condescension and interference from white people into something with a totally different meaning.
Again, are you serious? Maazi made a coherent and thoughtful comment. Perhaps you are uncomfortable by the fact that it contains (a small hint) of righteous anger which challenges your idea of the world and possibly brings you guilt even though its not even directed at you?
A better idea, let’s talk about the post, its contents, and its surroundings.
While you wrote on Sharlet’s piece in the Sept. Harpers before, you might mention it again here for contrast and comparison.
Hazmyth,
I know! The longer Maazi goes on the more inconsistencies he makes. He negates himself. Beginning to wonder if he is a real person.
It’s somewhat ironic to claim that ‘Ugandans’ are too intelligent to be manipulated by the global north (or “white people” or whatever) and then imply that gay activists (who are also, as it happens, Ugandans) have been thus manipulated.
If Maazi truly speaks for all Ugandans then I say leave them to their sandbox – let the rest of the world go on
Warren,
Congratulations !! It seems you are the first American to finally understand that this is not a matter that will be dropped simply because a bunch of White men—Pastor Rick Warren and friends—have decreed so. Like I have said over and over again, the Ugandan people are intelligent and have all the cognitive capabilities to make independent decisions. I wonder how long it will take you to finally understand that Western-choreographed gay activism in Uganda is dead on arrival and that fresh legislation will eventually be used to drive the nails into its coffin.