Board of Advisors and Accountability – Page 3

Mark Driscoll: I Made The Mistake Of Trying To Be Under the Authority Of My Elders

In this video, Mark and Grace Driscoll acknowledge they made mistakes in ministry. What were those mistakes?
At 5:23 into the video, Driscoll makes revealing statements about his views of his elders. These opinions give insight into the changes in governance at Mars Hill since 2007. Watch and take note between 5:23 and 7:00 minutes.
[youtube]http://youtu.be/U9vbaq5cO20[/youtube]
Starting at around 5:37, Driscoll said:

…but I knew as a big personality and pretty intense so I wanted to be under authority, but I made a mistake of, how do I say this carefully; trying to be under the authority of my elders, but the truth is all my elders were new and young and green, and they would want to help, but they really didn’t know what they were talking about. And so what I should’ve had was a team of pastors outside of the church who were older and more seasoned who could, you know, help Grace and I put life together and also give me counsel on how to work on the church with the elders I had early on. They could work in the church but they couldn’t work on the church.

Shorter Mark Driscoll on why he made mistakes: Lord, its these elders you gave me.
Driscoll goes on to say that church planters shouldn’t believe that accountability will come from their first elder board. He wished he had older, seasoned pastors to guide him because sometimes the problems they needed to talk about were the elders. In jest, Driscoll said, “Ok, guys I want to talk about this hypothetical person I wanna kill” referring to his unnamed problematic elders.
Elsewhere Driscoll has said that Mars Hill Church was killing him due to stress. He claimed he had to make changes in governance in order to save his life and his marriage. Here we learn that Driscoll did not trust (agree with?) his elders and believed that being under their authority was a mistake. Since his elders were wrong and frustrating, he needed to go outside the church to find wiser people.
In light of these statements, the rationale behind the formation of the Board of Advisors and Accountability becomes clearer. However, there seems to be two messages here. The explicit message is that his elders were inexperienced and although they meant well, they were wrong about important matters. The other more subtle message is that his elders frustrated him because he was correct and they were wrong. They disagreed with Driscoll and so they became the problem. What Driscoll needed were outside people who knew what they were talking about. All of this assumes that Driscoll, himself young and green, knew what he was talking about.
In hindsight, Driscoll’s solution to his young and green elders has not worked out well. The Board of Advisors and Accountability now appears to be ineffective in keeping Driscoll and the church advised and accountable. However, one reason the BOAA may have faltered is due to the unwillingness of Driscoll and his colleagues to follow through on the purpose of the BOAA. According to former BOAA member Paul Tripp, the BOAA is incapable of being effective, saying

But it became clear to me that a distant, external accountability board can never work well because it isn’t a firsthand witness to the ongoing life and ministry of the church.

Such a board at best can provide financial accountability, but it will find it very difficult to provide the kind of hands-on spiritual direction and protection that every Christian pastor needs. Unwittingly what happens is that the external accountability board becomes an inadequate replacement for a biblically functioning internal elder board that is the way God designed his church to be lead and pastors to be guided and protected.

Everyone makes mistakes, but sometimes we are mistaken about what we call mistakes. Driscoll’s assessment of the situation is debatable. Did he make a mistake by throwing off the authority of his elder board and bringing outsiders in? One interpretation of the current situation at Mars Hill is that the cure has been worse than the disease. In hindsight, perhaps Driscoll misdiagnosed the disease. He thought the problem was the elders; another possibility is that he, also young and green, should have listened to his elders board.

Additional Information:

In light of this post, Wenatchee the Hatchet reviewed the video and provides much evidence that calls Driscoll’s narrative into question. WtH brings back other sermons where Driscoll described himself as being under the authority of elders in the early days. Watch the video again and then read WtH’s post; hard to bring the two together.

For more on the changes at Mars Hill which reverberate to the present, see this post.

Has Mark Driscoll's Verdict Already Been Decided?

A key to broad acceptance of whatever decision is made regarding charges against Mark Driscoll by the Mars Hill Board of Advisors and Accountability is the perception that the BOAA is objective. In light of remarks by BOAA chair Matt Rogers and reported in the Seattle Times yesterday, some former Mars Hill leaders are questioning the BOAA’s objectivity. Rogers told the Seattle Times:

“The hard part is that some of what’s out there is true, and he’s owned it and apologized for it and is trying to correct it, and some is not,” said Mars Hill Pastor Matt Rogers, who chairs the church accountability board examining accusations against their leader.

“If someone went through and dragged out every example of where I’d been short with my wife, or rude to a co-worker or done something stupid, and trickled that out week after week after week for months, you would have no respect for me, either.”

According to the most recent reports from former pastors close to the situation, the investigation is only at the very beginning stages with some interviews scheduled but few, if any, conducted as yet. In other words, the jury should be out. However, Rogers appears to have his mind made up about the nature and accuracy of the charges.

There is at least one more reason to raise questions about conflict of interest. According to former elders and unknown to many in the pews, Rogers was almost tapped during the summer to be lead pastor at Mars Hill Bellevue. Lead pastor Thomas Hurst announced a sabbatical in June but according to reliable sources had planned to resign. Rogers was slated to move into the role of lead pastor to take Hurst’s place. During Hurst’s absence, Rogers led the services over the summer and attended the lead pastors’s July retreat in CA. In addition to other communications to the Bellevue campus, Rogers wrote a response to the demonstration which occurred on August 3.

Rogers’ response to the demonstration is noteworthy. According to witnesses at Bellevue, Rogers was not at Bellevue the Sunday of the protest. However, he wrote the rebuttal as if he had been present, alleging that the demonstrators left trash behind. At the time, I asked Rogers and Mars Hill Church if he was present at Bellevue but received no reply. On the substance of the matter, Rogers took the role of an advocate for the executive elders:

From Pastor Matt Rogers:

This past Sunday outside our building about 60 professing Christians led a protest, left a bit of trash, and slandered good men. Inside the building our church family worshipped Jesus. Let that image be what defines us. Others will cast aspersions, but we will worship Jesus.

Instead of openness to the concerns of the demonstrators (many of which are the same as in the charges filed by the 21 ex-pastors), Rogers said “good men” were “slandered” and accused the demonstrators of casting “aspersions.”

Then after attacking the demonstrators, Rogers wrote:

We cannot let fear rule our church. We must choose love. Choosing fear would lead us to attack those who are attacking us. Instead we will choose to love them by praying for them. Choosing fear will drive us to anger and bitterness which will spill out in how we talk about them, engage with them and eventually even with each other. Choosing love will be our witness to all the outsiders watching us right now that we forgive just as God in Christ forgave us. By refusing to give into fear we will commend Christ to our city.

Choosing fear shapes how we interact with each other as well. Choosing fear leads to second guessing and distrusting the statements of our leaders. Choosing fear leads to not standing up for the truth and the honor of good men because of what might come our way. Choosing love will enable us to show grace toward one another, to trust the Spirit at work in one another, and encourage each other to do the same.

Rogers message to his flock was to trust the leaders. He added that the congregation should stand “up for the truth and honor” of the leaders. Rogers ends by providing his assessment of the charges against the executive elders:

As elders we should have done more to communicate with you. By not saying more clearly that much of what you read online is slander, half-truths and gossip we left you in a place of wondering what is true. When this recent storm began a few months ago I looked into all of it because I had a responsibility to as an elder. What I have consistently seen is a pattern of repentance when sin was present, growth when errors were made, and patience when the accusations were false.
Let me say very clearly that Pastor Mark, Pastor Dave and Pastor Sutton are honorable and trustworthy men. I count it a privilege to serve with them not because I have anything to gain, simply because it is true.

According to Rogers, he has already looked into the situation and made up his mind that nothing has happened which would disqualify the executive elders. Without being specific, Rogers says some of the charges are false, and some are slander, half-truths and gossip.

Although Hurst declared his resignation again during the most recent full council of elders retreat, he has remained on while Rogers was appointed to the BOAA. Recall that the BOAA consists of the executive elders and at the time two independent members, Michael Van Skaik and Larry Osborne. At the time of the appointment, I pointed out that Rogers was already serving in a volunteer elder role at Mars Hill and may not fully meet the criteria for independence.

I asked former pastors and leaders for their reactions to Matt Rogers’ comments and I received three replies. Some declined to comment on the record but expressed concerns about the objectivity of the process. Former deacon Rob Smith told me:

There are two reasons that demonstrate that Matt Rogers should not be on the jury that decides Mark Driscoll’s fate. First, he has already cast his judgment before looking at the evidence in his comments both to the Seattle Times, where he has stated that what is true “out there” has been owned and apologized for by Mark Driscoll already and trying to correct, and the rest is not true, and second, he accused the people who protested at his campus of littering and slander despite not being there. He is clearly biased.

Dalton Rorabeck, former community group coach at Mars Hill reacted to Rogers’ words, saying

This statement alone should disqualify Matt Rogers from heading up the BOAA. He has already claimed that the charges/false accusations are not true and that Mark, Dave, and Sutton are trustworthy men. It won’t matter in the end though. I pity these men who are more interested in protecting their jobs, their friends, their paychecks, and their legacy’s rather than stand up for the Gospel and for truth.

Former Mars Hill Orange County executive pastor Kyle Firstenberg told me:

It is discouraging that once again, Mars Hill has placed a leader in a position to investigate Mark Driscoll who minimizes his sin. Matt Rogers gave the example that if someone were to talk about him being short with his wife or rude to a co-worker that people would have no respect for him also. That may be true, however we are not talking about that level of sin. We are talking about elder disqualifying sin, and not just one incident, many over several years. He also stated that Mark has owned his sin and has apologized for it. I would be very interested in how he has owned it! It seems to me that you would need to have conversations with some of the people you have sinned against in order to own it.

To summarize, Mr. Rogers joins a panel where two members of the BOAA dismissed prior charges without interviewing anyone (2013, Michael Van Skaik, Larry Osborne), and one member is the largest donor to the church in Mars Hill’s history (Jon Phelps). As I have written before, I like Mr. Driscoll’s chances with this BOAA.

UPDATE (9/16): Although the information about Bellevue lead pastor Thomas Hurst is not central to this post, I want to include a comment he made about it on Mars Hill’s chat site known as The City.

From Pastor Thomas Hurst:

Bellevue Family,

A couple hours ago I received an email making me aware of a blog that was posted today quoting a “former” elder who thought it was important to share how I intended to resign from my position at Mars Hill Bellevue. The former elder spoke of two different instances where I was going, or did, resign. I’m saddened that someone I know deemed this helpful for all of you to know – not because I wanted to hide anything, but because none of you need any more confusion in your life. I don’t understand why making this known was in anyway helpful to the critical situation and conversation at hand apart from bringing even more confusion and chaos into the confusion and chaos that already exists.

I do want to address this with everyone so you can know from me what was happening in my heart and mind with regards to my considering resignation, my resigning, and why I’m still here…but before I can share all this I get to be a daddy to my three boys and put them all to bed. I will post another letter later to all of you tonight.

I love you and please don’t allow your own hearts and minds to leap to any conclusions on this topic until I’ve had a chance to share it directly with you.

Pastor Thomas

If I get any more information on this I will pass it along. I will provide all sides to the issues raised here.

Mars Hill Church updates members on Paul Tripp and new additions to Board of Advisors and Accountability

Mars Hill Church posted an update on replacements for the BOAA. As I reported earlier, Matt Rogers is joining the board. In addition Jon Phelps will join the board. I will have more to say about the addition of Mr. Phelps later. In addition, the church was provided the Mars Hill take on Paul Tripps comments.

Update on Paul Tripp & The BOAA

As we have shared before, Paul Tripp recently resigned his membership from our Board of Advisors and Accountability. To the best of our knowledge at the time, this was due to his intent in helping Mars Hill as a paid consultant.

Paul later released a statement, adding additional comments that he did not believe the structure of the Board that he joined was healthy, and that we should add accountability from local members of the church. Paul’s concerns were not made known to the Board as a whole before he resigned; however, we agree there is wisdom in adding local members to this board and we were already in the process of doing just that.

We have now become aware of new comments and concerns that Paul Tripp has voiced about Pastor Mark and Pastor Sutton within the last week to a small group of current elders at Mars Hill. These elders then posted these comments as a letter in an unsecure place, and the letter has since been posted online by various critics and media sources.

Paul Tripp’s comments to our elders were never made directly to the Board of Advisors and Accountability, as we have minutes of these meetings. We are deeply disappointed that Paul did not bring these concerns to our full Board or to the Executive Elders directly.

The concerns brought forth by these elders and the comments from Paul Tripp have been heard and are being taken seriously. Their letter, as with past letters voicing accusations toward Pastor Mark, will be processed in accordance with our bylaws. This means the accusations will be thoroughly examined and a report issued when the review is complete.

As for the Board of Advisors and Accountability we are pleased to announce that the vacancies created on the Board were filled with local members of our church who meet the ECFA guidelines for independence. Pastor Matt Rogers is a local Seattle business leader and has been serving as a volunteer elder at Mars Hill Church Bellevue. He will also serve as the Chairman of the Board of Elders which will provide increased accountability in areas of financial responsibility, staff and elder transitions and church culture. The other vacancy on the BOAA has been filled by John Phelps. John is a successful businessman and longtime member of Mars Hill. We are excited for these men to provide local perspective and accountability on our Board.

Phelps is well known as a longtime associate of Mark Driscoll’s and one of the more generous donors to Mars Hill. Independence in this case is a word with little meaning.

Is Matt Rogers the Newest Member of the Mars Hill Church Board of Advisors and Accountability?

I have this information from a three credible sources but I am having a hard time believing it.
Sources inside Mars Hill Church tell me that it was announced in a meeting of Bellevue community group leaders that Bellevue volunteer elder Matt Rogers has been appointed to the Board of Advisors and Accountability.
If Rogers was added as an “independent member” then his name will be added to Michael Van Skaik and Larry Osborne as men who will examine the charges against Mark Driscoll. If Rogers is being added as an executive elder, then Driscoll would have had to appoint him, according to the by-laws. If Rogers is being added as an independent member of the BOAA then he should resign his current volunteer position. The by-laws are not clear but it seems that having a position subordinate to Mark Driscoll would violate the spirit of the definition of “independent.” It is not clear to me that he qualifies as an independent since he is currently an unpaid elder at Bellevue where “he leads the church operations volunteer teams.” Even though he is a volunteer, he is subordinate to the two executive elders.
Rogers, who works in marketing at Microsoft, is the same man who responded by letter to the Mars Hill Bellevue campus protest. The letter was anything but neutral or objective. Furthermore, there are credible Mars Hill sources that say Rogers was not at Bellevue the morning of the protest.
It is incredible that the current BOAA would appoint a current elder to hear these charges.
Mars Hill Church was asked to confirm this claim but did not answer. I am reporting this because of the credibility of the sources, but I would not be surprised if the position is withdrawn or disavowed when it becomes widely known. According to two current elders and several former Mars Hill members, Rogers is well known as a staunch defender of the executive elders. As such, his appointment will not inspire confidence among Mars Hill Church stakeholders that the process will be objective.
As noted yesterday, the current BOAA members have already dismissed charges against Driscoll. Rogers’ appointment does nothing to promote confidence that the process will be objective and fair.

Compare Paul Tripp's Explanation For His Resignation With The One Offered By Mars Hill Church's BOAA

I first reported Paul Tripp’s resignation from the Mars Hill Church Board of Advisors and Accountability on July 30.
Then, after much speculation, on August 1, the church’s weekly news email reported reasons for Tripp’s resignation:

Dr. Paul Tripp joined our Board of Advisors and Accountability in November 2013 and has been an immense help to our leaders over the past year. Dr. Tripp has extensive experience in discipleship and Biblical counseling. Earlier this month, we made the decision together to open the opportunity for him to work with greater focus on issues directly related to his expertise, namely the continued development of our community and redemption ministries.

Because simultaneously being a board member and a consultant does not allow for the required definition of “independence,” Dr. Tripp graciously submitted his resignation from the BOAA in early June, so that he can more extensively serve our church as a consultant. We are excited to continue this work with him, and are thankful for his continued support of Mars Hill Church.

Now compare this statement with Paul Tripp’s statement today:

It’s because of this love that I accepted the position on Mars Hill Church’s BoAA. But it became clear to me that a distant, external accountability board can never work well because it isn’t a firsthand witness to the ongoing life and ministry of the church.

Such a board at best can provide financial accountability, but it will find it very difficult to provide the kind of hands-on spiritual direction and protection that every Christian pastor needs. Unwittingly what happens is that the external accountability board becomes an inadequate replacement for a biblically functioning internal elder board that is the way God designed his church to be lead and pastors to be guided and protected.

So, since I knew that I could not be the kind of help that I would like to be through the vehicle of the BoAA, I resigned from that position.

I would still love to see the leadership community of Mars Hill Church become itself a culture of grace and I am still willing to help, but not through the means of a board that will never be able to do what it was designed to do.

Do they seem the same to you?

The Mars Hill BOAA makes it sound like the decision was mutual (“we made the decision together”) and that they reason for resignation was a conflict of interest. However, Tripp says the reason relates to his fundamental rejection of the “external accountability board” model. He has two objections to this model. One, it doesn’t work, and two, it isn’t compatible with Bible teaching.

Acts 29 Network also found fault with the BOAA to provide accountability:

In response, we leaned on the Mars Hill Board of Advisors & Accountability to take the lead in dealing with this matter. But we no longer believe the BoAA is able to execute the plan of reconciliation originally laid out. Ample time has been given for repentance, change, and restitution, with none forthcoming.

The BOAA later reacted in defense over those charges, with chairman Michael Van Skaik saying he had not talked with anyone at the Acts 29 Network board.

Even with the public statements it does not appear that the public is getting the entire story.

Is it possible that Paul Tripp did not tell the Mars Hill Church about his real reasons for resigning? Could it be that Acts 29 did not communicate with anyone at Mars Hill? Or was the BOAA being kept in the dark by Tripp and Acts 29?

For now, it appears that there are significant discrepancies in the accounts.

Additional information: Ex-member Scott Shipp takes the comparisons back in time to December 2013.