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	Comments on: Gateway Church Pranked with Alternative Voter Guides	</title>
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	<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/10/22/gateway-church-pranked-with-fake-voter-guides/</link>
	<description>A [retired] college psychology professor&#039;s observations about public policy, mental health, sexual identity, and religious issues</description>
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		<title>
		By: Botswani		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/10/22/gateway-church-pranked-with-fake-voter-guides/#comment-99506</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Botswani]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2019 19:17:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=33595#comment-99506</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/10/22/gateway-church-pranked-with-fake-voter-guides/#comment-98411&quot;&gt;GWInsida&lt;/a&gt;.

He, ive been trying to contact you. Would you like to make connection?  If so, respond and I’ll attempt to reestablish contact through Dr. T. Thanks!  Botswani]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/10/22/gateway-church-pranked-with-fake-voter-guides/#comment-98411">GWInsida</a>.</p>
<p>He, ive been trying to contact you. Would you like to make connection?  If so, respond and I’ll attempt to reestablish contact through Dr. T. Thanks!  Botswani</p>
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		<title>
		By: jayhawkb		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/10/22/gateway-church-pranked-with-fake-voter-guides/#comment-98605</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jayhawkb]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2018 11:17:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=33595#comment-98605</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/10/22/gateway-church-pranked-with-fake-voter-guides/#comment-98411&quot;&gt;GWInsida&lt;/a&gt;.

Robert Morris sneaking off to DC whilst he is recovering from his illness and can’t preach? Hmmm....]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/10/22/gateway-church-pranked-with-fake-voter-guides/#comment-98411">GWInsida</a>.</p>
<p>Robert Morris sneaking off to DC whilst he is recovering from his illness and can’t preach? Hmmm&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>
		By: War-El		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/10/22/gateway-church-pranked-with-fake-voter-guides/#comment-98504</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[War-El]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2018 09:03:49 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/10/22/gateway-church-pranked-with-fake-voter-guides/#comment-98494&quot;&gt;David Rahrer&lt;/a&gt;.

When I talk about the abolition movement in the West and the place of faith and church in it, I am (necessarily, I think) definitely rolling into that William Wilberforce and abolition in Great Britain. The warped Western theology in support of slavery and racial heirarchy, and the efforts expended to defend it, are without a doubt the worst black eye on the Christian church and something to be ashamed of.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/10/22/gateway-church-pranked-with-fake-voter-guides/#comment-98494">David Rahrer</a>.</p>
<p>When I talk about the abolition movement in the West and the place of faith and church in it, I am (necessarily, I think) definitely rolling into that William Wilberforce and abolition in Great Britain. The warped Western theology in support of slavery and racial heirarchy, and the efforts expended to defend it, are without a doubt the worst black eye on the Christian church and something to be ashamed of.</p>
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		<title>
		By: David Rahrer		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/10/22/gateway-church-pranked-with-fake-voter-guides/#comment-98496</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Rahrer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2018 21:10:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=33595#comment-98496</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/10/22/gateway-church-pranked-with-fake-voter-guides/#comment-98492&quot;&gt;War-El&lt;/a&gt;.

Yes, but the problem, as you will likely agree, is that one leads to the other.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/10/22/gateway-church-pranked-with-fake-voter-guides/#comment-98492">War-El</a>.</p>
<p>Yes, but the problem, as you will likely agree, is that one leads to the other.</p>
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		<title>
		By: David Rahrer		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/10/22/gateway-church-pranked-with-fake-voter-guides/#comment-98494</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Rahrer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2018 21:03:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=33595#comment-98494</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/10/22/gateway-church-pranked-with-fake-voter-guides/#comment-98493&quot;&gt;War-El&lt;/a&gt;.

I understand, but when I hear things like &quot;Probably not a very defensible posture in light of the church/faith-centric nature of the Civil Rights movement,&quot; I have to point out that the Church provided a basis for the treatment of Africans as less than human, and a defense of the institution in the American Colonies/United States. It was a common refrain that interfering with the institution was akin to interfering with the providence of God in that slavery was, in effect, the path to salvation for Africans.

Frederick Douglas had this to say:

&lt;i&gt;&quot;Between the Christianity of this land and the Christianity of Christ, I recognize the widest possible difference - so wide that to receive the one as good, pure, and holy, is of necessity to reject the other as bad, corrupt, and wicked. To be the friend of the one is of necessity to be the enemy of the other. I love the pure, peaceable, and impartial Christianity of Christ; I therefore hate the corrupt, slave-holding, women-whipping, cradle-plundering, partial and hypocritical Christianity of this land. Indeed, I can see no reason but the most deceitful one for calling the religion of this land Christianity…&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;We are not forced to ban slavery because we are at the end of a gun or in the clutches of a mob. We WANT to ban it because it is unjust and abhorrent, and we hate it.&lt;/blockquote&gt;Yes, some in the (mostly non-mainstream) churches did come to the conclusion that slavery was wrong and did not reflect the idea that all people were equal and valued in the eyes of God. However, 620,000 soldiers died in the Civil War - that&#039;s a pretty big gun. The idea that this change was not a violent one is absurd.

I&#039;m not ignoring the part Christians played in the initial abolition of slavery or the modern civil rights movement in this country. But neither can we ignore the systemic participation the Church has played in the institution at all stages in history, including the time between the US Civil War and the 1960s. And back to my original comment, this makes it only fitting that the Church helped to work for the civil rights of African Americans.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/10/22/gateway-church-pranked-with-fake-voter-guides/#comment-98493">War-El</a>.</p>
<p>I understand, but when I hear things like &#8220;Probably not a very defensible posture in light of the church/faith-centric nature of the Civil Rights movement,&#8221; I have to point out that the Church provided a basis for the treatment of Africans as less than human, and a defense of the institution in the American Colonies/United States. It was a common refrain that interfering with the institution was akin to interfering with the providence of God in that slavery was, in effect, the path to salvation for Africans.</p>
<p>Frederick Douglas had this to say:</p>
<p><i>&#8220;Between the Christianity of this land and the Christianity of Christ, I recognize the widest possible difference &#8211; so wide that to receive the one as good, pure, and holy, is of necessity to reject the other as bad, corrupt, and wicked. To be the friend of the one is of necessity to be the enemy of the other. I love the pure, peaceable, and impartial Christianity of Christ; I therefore hate the corrupt, slave-holding, women-whipping, cradle-plundering, partial and hypocritical Christianity of this land. Indeed, I can see no reason but the most deceitful one for calling the religion of this land Christianity…&#8221;</i></p>
<blockquote><p>We are not forced to ban slavery because we are at the end of a gun or in the clutches of a mob. We WANT to ban it because it is unjust and abhorrent, and we hate it.</p></blockquote>
<p>Yes, some in the (mostly non-mainstream) churches did come to the conclusion that slavery was wrong and did not reflect the idea that all people were equal and valued in the eyes of God. However, 620,000 soldiers died in the Civil War &#8211; that&#8217;s a pretty big gun. The idea that this change was not a violent one is absurd.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not ignoring the part Christians played in the initial abolition of slavery or the modern civil rights movement in this country. But neither can we ignore the systemic participation the Church has played in the institution at all stages in history, including the time between the US Civil War and the 1960s. And back to my original comment, this makes it only fitting that the Church helped to work for the civil rights of African Americans.</p>
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