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	Comments on: Ted Haggard still struggles with his sexuality	</title>
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	<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2008/12/21/ted-haggard-still-struggles-with-his-sexuality/</link>
	<description>A [retired] college psychology professor&#039;s observations about public policy, mental health, sexual identity, and religious issues</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 24 Dec 2008 05:38:43 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: PianoManKugie		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2008/12/21/ted-haggard-still-struggles-with-his-sexuality/#comment-24636</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[PianoManKugie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Dec 2008 05:38:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=2816#comment-24636</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2008/12/21/ted-haggard-still-struggles-with-his-sexuality/#comment-24575&quot;&gt;carole&lt;/a&gt;.

Carole, Thank you!  Well said!  Each of us persons is so unique, and for those of us who are in a marriage, each of those marriages is also unique.  I agree that a couple&#039;s decision to stay together, or not, is, after all counsel and advice and prayer, theirs alone.  So, if I like their decision, so what?  If I disagree with their decision, so what?  Who the heck am I?  They are not personal friends of mine, I don&#039;t even know these people, and I am not a part of their lives.  And even if I was, I would still mainly pray because I certainly can&#039;t tell another couple what is best for them.  What you&#039;ve said is quite right.  Each couples decision to stay together or not is their own for their own reasons.   (It doesn&#039;t sound to me like theirs is one of those situations where CPS needs to come in and take the kids away.)  The kids will have to deal with this issue whether their parents stay together or not.  Well said, Carole!  Thank you!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2008/12/21/ted-haggard-still-struggles-with-his-sexuality/#comment-24575">carole</a>.</p>
<p>Carole, Thank you!  Well said!  Each of us persons is so unique, and for those of us who are in a marriage, each of those marriages is also unique.  I agree that a couple&#8217;s decision to stay together, or not, is, after all counsel and advice and prayer, theirs alone.  So, if I like their decision, so what?  If I disagree with their decision, so what?  Who the heck am I?  They are not personal friends of mine, I don&#8217;t even know these people, and I am not a part of their lives.  And even if I was, I would still mainly pray because I certainly can&#8217;t tell another couple what is best for them.  What you&#8217;ve said is quite right.  Each couples decision to stay together or not is their own for their own reasons.   (It doesn&#8217;t sound to me like theirs is one of those situations where CPS needs to come in and take the kids away.)  The kids will have to deal with this issue whether their parents stay together or not.  Well said, Carole!  Thank you!</p>
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		<title>
		By: David Blakeslee		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2008/12/21/ted-haggard-still-struggles-with-his-sexuality/#comment-24635</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Blakeslee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 15:11:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=2816#comment-24635</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@ Tim,
Well said.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Tim,<br />
Well said.</p>
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		<title>
		By: David Blakeslee		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2008/12/21/ted-haggard-still-struggles-with-his-sexuality/#comment-24634</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Blakeslee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 15:08:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=2816#comment-24634</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@Jayhuck,
...your ability to step around others responses and stick to your assertions is exemplary.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jayhuck,<br />
&#8230;your ability to step around others responses and stick to your assertions is exemplary.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Evan		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2008/12/21/ted-haggard-still-struggles-with-his-sexuality/#comment-24633</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Evan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 08:40:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=2816#comment-24633</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I agree with you, Warren. The man doesn&#039;t necessarily have a problem with his wife because he is attracted to other men. His particular problem may be somewhere else, with sensation seeking. There are probably many SSA-ed married men who are attracted to their wives but are average or low on sensation seeking, which makes them unlikely to act on impulses.
On the other hand, I will have to disagree about the bisexual term (or Bem&#039;s &#039;discordant for one&#039;s orientation&#039;, for that matter). I like Sven Bocklandt&#039;s logic more:
&lt;blockquote&gt;The whole hypothesis that I’ve been working on is that there’s no such thing, from a biological point of view, as homosexuality or heterosexuality. ...The only thing that exists is being attracted to men or being attracted to women.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
That means, to me, that there is no bisexuality either. These labels come from how behaviours have been classified over time and don&#039;t say much about individual people&#039;s attractions to individuals. Thus, if a person was quantitatively attracted to a greater number of individual men or women, she/he was termed according to the relation between their genders (opposite or same). But men and women are not generic in real life, like they appear in categories. Their &#039;genderness&#039; is expressed in individual characteristics and people are attracted to particular people, but not to all men or women. I think we will learn that labels have a statistical reality and that&#039;s all. But, as we know, individual behaviours cannot be predicted from statistical inferences. Therefore, arguing that someone is primarily attracted to one gender because they respond to a greater number of same-sex individuals and a smaller number of opposite-sex individuals will not predict their behaviour or sexual identity. In real life environment individuals use their sexual potential &lt;em&gt;&lt;strong&gt;with particular people&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/em&gt;, not with gender categories. In this understanding, there is room for more or less choice for each individual, depending on the individuals they meet and relate to.
So it doesn&#039;t practically matter to one&#039;s life if statistically they are more attracted to one gender or another, as long as they can have a functional relationship with the person they choose and vice versa. On the contrary, labels can and probably have done some damage to individual lives forcing people to try to live up to labels when they could have more simply accepted and have been accepted for the choices they made.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you, Warren. The man doesn&#8217;t necessarily have a problem with his wife because he is attracted to other men. His particular problem may be somewhere else, with sensation seeking. There are probably many SSA-ed married men who are attracted to their wives but are average or low on sensation seeking, which makes them unlikely to act on impulses.<br />
On the other hand, I will have to disagree about the bisexual term (or Bem&#8217;s &#8216;discordant for one&#8217;s orientation&#8217;, for that matter). I like Sven Bocklandt&#8217;s logic more:</p>
<blockquote><p>The whole hypothesis that I’ve been working on is that there’s no such thing, from a biological point of view, as homosexuality or heterosexuality. &#8230;The only thing that exists is being attracted to men or being attracted to women.</p></blockquote>
<p>That means, to me, that there is no bisexuality either. These labels come from how behaviours have been classified over time and don&#8217;t say much about individual people&#8217;s attractions to individuals. Thus, if a person was quantitatively attracted to a greater number of individual men or women, she/he was termed according to the relation between their genders (opposite or same). But men and women are not generic in real life, like they appear in categories. Their &#8216;genderness&#8217; is expressed in individual characteristics and people are attracted to particular people, but not to all men or women. I think we will learn that labels have a statistical reality and that&#8217;s all. But, as we know, individual behaviours cannot be predicted from statistical inferences. Therefore, arguing that someone is primarily attracted to one gender because they respond to a greater number of same-sex individuals and a smaller number of opposite-sex individuals will not predict their behaviour or sexual identity. In real life environment individuals use their sexual potential <em><strong>with particular people</strong></em>, not with gender categories. In this understanding, there is room for more or less choice for each individual, depending on the individuals they meet and relate to.<br />
So it doesn&#8217;t practically matter to one&#8217;s life if statistically they are more attracted to one gender or another, as long as they can have a functional relationship with the person they choose and vice versa. On the contrary, labels can and probably have done some damage to individual lives forcing people to try to live up to labels when they could have more simply accepted and have been accepted for the choices they made.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Warren		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2008/12/21/ted-haggard-still-struggles-with-his-sexuality/#comment-24632</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Warren]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 06:00:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=2816#comment-24632</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[To all - Mr. Haggard may be bisexual; he may be what I have termed &quot;spousosexual&quot; in that he is quite attracted to his wife and no other woman, even while he remains attracted to men, experiencing that side as a struggle.
If the sexual side of the relationship exists parallel to the same-sex desire, then the situation would be more favorable for the marriage long term.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To all &#8211; Mr. Haggard may be bisexual; he may be what I have termed &#8220;spousosexual&#8221; in that he is quite attracted to his wife and no other woman, even while he remains attracted to men, experiencing that side as a struggle.<br />
If the sexual side of the relationship exists parallel to the same-sex desire, then the situation would be more favorable for the marriage long term.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mary		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2008/12/21/ted-haggard-still-struggles-with-his-sexuality/#comment-24631</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mary]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 03:36:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=2816#comment-24631</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Jayhuck,
Again the duplicity is amazing!
Earlier today you agreed that no one has documentation that not staying with his family was best.
How dare you say you have dealt with these issues.  YOU HAVE NOT DEALT WITH THE ISSUES THAT FACE MR. HAGGARD.
That you have slept with married men does not mean that you have slept with all married men who have SSA.  And you do not know what is best.
You do have some arrogance sitting in this discussion saying you have the only true insight and have disregarded the insight that TH brings to the table.  HIS OWN.   Those who support him are doing just that supporting him in his decision and not trying to get him to do something that would meet my particular interests alone.  Geez!!!  Who are you??  Really?  Who are you to pontificate about what is best for this man, his family etc...
Have you been married, had children, left your wife and children for being gay??
My goodness, your flip floppiness is astoundingly agile.
Will it ever occur to you that maybe, JUST MAYBE, other people view their lives through a different lense than the one that sees sexuality as the ONLY guiding factor in decisions etc...?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jayhuck,<br />
Again the duplicity is amazing!<br />
Earlier today you agreed that no one has documentation that not staying with his family was best.<br />
How dare you say you have dealt with these issues.  YOU HAVE NOT DEALT WITH THE ISSUES THAT FACE MR. HAGGARD.<br />
That you have slept with married men does not mean that you have slept with all married men who have SSA.  And you do not know what is best.<br />
You do have some arrogance sitting in this discussion saying you have the only true insight and have disregarded the insight that TH brings to the table.  HIS OWN.   Those who support him are doing just that supporting him in his decision and not trying to get him to do something that would meet my particular interests alone.  Geez!!!  Who are you??  Really?  Who are you to pontificate about what is best for this man, his family etc&#8230;<br />
Have you been married, had children, left your wife and children for being gay??<br />
My goodness, your flip floppiness is astoundingly agile.<br />
Will it ever occur to you that maybe, JUST MAYBE, other people view their lives through a different lense than the one that sees sexuality as the ONLY guiding factor in decisions etc&#8230;?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Drowssap		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2008/12/21/ted-haggard-still-struggles-with-his-sexuality/#comment-24630</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Drowssap]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 02:57:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=2816#comment-24630</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2008/12/21/ted-haggard-still-struggles-with-his-sexuality/#comment-24629&quot;&gt;Timothy Kincaid&lt;/a&gt;.

Whelp, there is nothing left for me to say after that.  Tim is right on the money.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2008/12/21/ted-haggard-still-struggles-with-his-sexuality/#comment-24629">Timothy Kincaid</a>.</p>
<p>Whelp, there is nothing left for me to say after that.  Tim is right on the money.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Timothy Kincaid		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2008/12/21/ted-haggard-still-struggles-with-his-sexuality/#comment-24629</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Timothy Kincaid]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 02:31:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=2816#comment-24629</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I wish the Haggards well.
If a same-sex attracted man and a woman wish to stay together for the kids, or for companionship, or for religious conviction, I really don&#039;t care as long as they are honest with themselves and each other.  I&#039;m sure many people do and for some neither sex nor sexuality are that important.
However, I think that this may be difficult for Ted Haggard.  His history shows that he&#039;s not particularly good at being honest with anyone and I&#039;m sure his wife views him quite differently than before.
Personally, I&#039;m guessing that this is a situation wherein it would be best for the two of them to go their own ways after the kids are out of the house.  If he&#039;s finding men attractive and she&#039;s feeling undesired, that&#039;s an awful lot of tension and if the bonds of friendship have been weakened by his lies over the years, there may be nothing left to save.
But, it&#039;s their lives and I hope they find one that works for them.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wish the Haggards well.<br />
If a same-sex attracted man and a woman wish to stay together for the kids, or for companionship, or for religious conviction, I really don&#8217;t care as long as they are honest with themselves and each other.  I&#8217;m sure many people do and for some neither sex nor sexuality are that important.<br />
However, I think that this may be difficult for Ted Haggard.  His history shows that he&#8217;s not particularly good at being honest with anyone and I&#8217;m sure his wife views him quite differently than before.<br />
Personally, I&#8217;m guessing that this is a situation wherein it would be best for the two of them to go their own ways after the kids are out of the house.  If he&#8217;s finding men attractive and she&#8217;s feeling undesired, that&#8217;s an awful lot of tension and if the bonds of friendship have been weakened by his lies over the years, there may be nothing left to save.<br />
But, it&#8217;s their lives and I hope they find one that works for them.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jayhuck		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2008/12/21/ted-haggard-still-struggles-with-his-sexuality/#comment-24628</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jayhuck]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 02:31:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=2816#comment-24628</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[We&#039;ve been discussing their choice this entire thread - I&#039;m not sure what your point is - but I am aware of what we are discussing :)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#8217;ve been discussing their choice this entire thread &#8211; I&#8217;m not sure what your point is &#8211; but I am aware of what we are discussing 🙂</p>
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		<title>
		By: Eddy		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2008/12/21/ted-haggard-still-struggles-with-his-sexuality/#comment-24627</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eddy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 02:26:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=2816#comment-24627</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Whew. That&#039;s a relief. My Christmas spirit just reached it&#039;s threshhold.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whew. That&#8217;s a relief. My Christmas spirit just reached it&#8217;s threshhold.</p>
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