In his appearance on Michael Brown’s Line of Fire show, Martin Ssempa said that homosexuals have not been arrested or killed under current law. Canyon Ridge Christian Church provided a transcript of a short portion of the show (oddly calling it an “unedited interview”) where Ssempa responds to charges from Jim Burroway at Box Turtle Bulletin:
Brown reads a written challenge from Jim Burroway posted on Box Turtle Bulletin, and Martin responds regarding death penalty provision and allegations of gays being killed or imprisoned.
One aspect of Burroway’s challenge was for Martin Ssempa to post the bill. Ssempa told Brown he would do it but did not. Ssempa goes on to discuss his view of government and says that his pastor’s group does not favor the death penalty. He calls the bill “a draft” which is not true unless you think of all bills as drafts. The bill published in the Uganda Gazette is a bill, which can be amended but it is clearly more than a draft. Drafts cannot be read in Parliament, drafts are not sent to committee where they await committee report. Bills can be amended, but they can also be voted on. But I digress.
Ssempa ends his placation of critics by saying this:
I just want to let you know in the history of Uganda for the last 50 years we’ve had this law, since we’ve had a law against homosexuality, no homosexual has been arrested or killed for homosexuality.
Ugandan activists have contested this claim and said that often they are brought in on trumped up charges as a pretense to harass them for their sexual orientation. I have been tracking a story from Gulu of a woman who was burned to death because she made a pass at another woman but cannot as yet offer conclusive evidence. However, this clip from a recent British documentary, Africa’s Last Taboo, documents in detail the arrest and detention of two gay men in Mbale under the existing sodomy law.
Please note that this situation is ongoing and was initiated prior to Martin Ssempa’s statement that such things do not happen in Uganda. I have another clip where Julius Oyet tells a homosexual that he will be arrested when the law takes effect. Martin Ssempa told Line of Fire there would not be a witch hunt. When it becomes a criminal offense to remain silent if you know homosexuals, what do you think the effect of that will be? If this can take place under current law, what could happen under this new law?
Additional footage showing the attitudes of the crowd toward the Mbale gays.
The last half of this clip features the appearance by Lou Engle. I will have a brief post about that soon…
James ~ Aug 4, 2010 at 12:14 pm
“Ken,
welcome on board. I hope you are getting into a subject that you are well informed about. And I hope we’ll have an objective discussion here. ”
I’m well informed on the subject of sexual orientation.
“Your rant against Maazi already exhibits your lack of understanding about Uganda”
My “rant” as you called it was about sexual orientation, not Uganda. And was directed at Maazi’s mis-perceptions of what it actually means (and doesn’t mean) to be of a particular orientation.
“I would refer you to Anthropological write ups about Uganda.”
Fine, post the citations.
“When one does not agree with you, your usual stand is always to demonise him/her.”
Really, you manged to glean this information about me from a single short post. Without every having seen how I inter-act with others I disagree with? Does anyone else posting here demonize those they disagree with? Does Maazi? Do you ?
“This will not deter our committment to defending our sovereignity.”
You do have a right to your sovereignty. But others (people and countries) have the right to disagree with you. And to boycott or otherwise isolate you if you pass discriminatory legislation. Just as was done 30 years ago against the apartied policies of South Africa.
What can I say, links get broken, I’ve not been apprised of the New Vision archive.
Heck, even I remember the two lesbians whose home was invaded by the police in 2008 or thereabouts and they got arrested and carted off to jail or wherever. It was a big case in Uganda and eventually the two of them won a judgement against the government/police and got $7000 for their troubles.
But you’ll choose any reason not to seek truth.
Ken,
Buahahahahahahahahaha—Ugandans are not scared of such false threats. Provided majority of the world reject gayism as a human right and provided this deviant sexual behaviour remains outside the scope of the 1948 UN Declaration on human rights (UNDHR), no one has legal grounds to boycott any country on grounds of sexual disorientation. Please don’t bother to repeat false propaganda about UNDHR covering homosexual conduct and do not mistake UNDHR for the unsuccessful and useless ” 2008 UN Declaration on Sexual Orientation & Gender Identity” signed by a small fraction of the world’s 192 nations.
I would imagine that your American and European governments will start their boycotting campaign by banning from their markets all barrels of crude oil produced by pro-American client states in the Arabian Gulf since most stipulate death penalty by hanging for gay sex or some other extreme punishment. I am sure that the governments of Singapore and Malaysia are shitting their pants at the thought of being boycotted by the West for refusing to decriminalize sodomy. Even the senate of the small Republic of Burundi called the bluff of western governments and Euro-American Gay Lobby and criminalized gay sex. An apartheid South African-style boycott? Are you kidding me? Nobody is gonna boycott Uganda, not now that the east african nation has struck commercial quantities of crude oil. Important world decisions are not made the foundation of sentiments and emotions, they are made based on realpolitik and vested interests Ken please learn !!
Ken,
welcome on board. I hope you are getting into a subject that you are well informed about. And I hope we’ll have an objective discussion here. Your rant against Maazi already exhibits your lack of understanding about Uganda. I would refer you to Anthropological write ups about Uganda. When one does not agree with you, your usual stand is always to demonise him/her. This will not deter our committment to defending our sovereignity.
Lynn David is another misinformed guy who rlies on hearsay to develop his so called accurate stories. Was Oyo and Victor really awarded that $7000? Where they really thrown in police cells? Please check your records correctly before you shoot up with inaccurate information.
You know America expects everyone to bow to their ill demands but you there is a lot out there with knees that can never bend. Nowonder some few Americans on this blog keep trying to enforce unacceptable social evils to us. As Dr. Warren says You Americans will do your part, I want to let you know we Ugandans will also do our part..
Ha,ha, ha….What a joke !!!
TYPO CORRECTION:
Important world decisions are not made ON the foundations of sentiments and emotions, they are made based on realpolitik and vested interests. Ken please learn !!
And then in 2009 according to Amnesty International…..
If my memory serves that minister was Dr. Nsaba Buturo, but it could have been Bahati.
And then, as far as I know this was in the Monitor: Izama Angelo: Government warns UNAIDS over gays on The Monitor web site, 29th November , 2004, reported by Financial Times Information, Global News Wire – Asia Africa Intelligence Wire.
Dr. Warren,
I would love to get any contacts to Pastor Malinga. A chat with him would probably help me also understand that homo who was about to be burnt alive.
Secondly in that interview, you can clearly see the stand of the local population who does not anything to do with Scott Lively, probably Ssempa and Bahati. Their values speak for themselves. Yes, it is the work of the police to protect every citizen of Uganda including homos. There was no indoctrination…nothing of the sort, it is just the values of the people. The same thing also happened in Malawi.
One thing I keep noting on this blog is that there is a deliberate attempt to ignore the genuine voice of the ugandan citizens. Warren, Lyn etc keep bashing these genuine voices while lifting up theirs. Well it is what you chose to do but we’ll be victorious all the same.
TYPO CORRECTION:
Important world decisions are not made ON the foundations of sentiments and emotions, they are made based on realpolitik and vested interests. Ken please learn !!
Ken,
Buahahahahahahahahaha—Ugandans are not scared of such false threats. Provided majority of the world reject gayism as a human right and provided this deviant sexual behaviour remains outside the scope of the 1948 UN Declaration on human rights (UNDHR), no one has legal grounds to boycott any country on grounds of sexual disorientation. Please don’t bother to repeat false propaganda about UNDHR covering homosexual conduct and do not mistake UNDHR for the unsuccessful and useless ” 2008 UN Declaration on Sexual Orientation & Gender Identity” signed by a small fraction of the world’s 192 nations.
I would imagine that your American and European governments will start their boycotting campaign by banning from their markets all barrels of crude oil produced by pro-American client states in the Arabian Gulf since most stipulate death penalty by hanging for gay sex or some other extreme punishment. I am sure that the governments of Singapore and Malaysia are shitting their pants at the thought of being boycotted by the West for refusing to decriminalize sodomy. Even the senate of the small Republic of Burundi called the bluff of western governments and Euro-American Gay Lobby and criminalized gay sex. An apartheid South African-style boycott? Are you kidding me? Nobody is gonna boycott Uganda, not now that the east african nation has struck commercial quantities of crude oil. Important world decisions are not made the foundation of sentiments and emotions, they are made based on realpolitik and vested interests Ken please learn !!
James ~ Aug 4, 2010 at 12:14 pm
“Ken,
welcome on board. I hope you are getting into a subject that you are well informed about. And I hope we’ll have an objective discussion here. ”
I’m well informed on the subject of sexual orientation.
“Your rant against Maazi already exhibits your lack of understanding about Uganda”
My “rant” as you called it was about sexual orientation, not Uganda. And was directed at Maazi’s mis-perceptions of what it actually means (and doesn’t mean) to be of a particular orientation.
“I would refer you to Anthropological write ups about Uganda.”
Fine, post the citations.
“When one does not agree with you, your usual stand is always to demonise him/her.”
Really, you manged to glean this information about me from a single short post. Without every having seen how I inter-act with others I disagree with? Does anyone else posting here demonize those they disagree with? Does Maazi? Do you ?
“This will not deter our committment to defending our sovereignity.”
You do have a right to your sovereignty. But others (people and countries) have the right to disagree with you. And to boycott or otherwise isolate you if you pass discriminatory legislation. Just as was done 30 years ago against the apartied policies of South Africa.
Ha,ha, ha….What a joke !!!
And then in 2009 according to Amnesty International…..
If my memory serves that minister was Dr. Nsaba Buturo, but it could have been Bahati.
And then, as far as I know this was in the Monitor: Izama Angelo: Government warns UNAIDS over gays on The Monitor web site, 29th November , 2004, reported by Financial Times Information, Global News Wire – Asia Africa Intelligence Wire.
I was horrified by LynnDavid’s recounting of the story where individuals were urinated upon and one was doused in a chemical. (Not certain if that was the lesbians or not.) Sadly, it reminded me of the American troops who humiliated the prisoners of war with punishment intended to be sexually degrading. It is my sincere hope that Uganda will also punish those who ‘take the law into their own hands’ or who decide to add further penalities (such as physical and sexual abuse) to those who are incarcerated for any crime.
I realize that this is more a glimmer of hope rather than a ray of light but I take some encouragement that the lesbians maintained citizenship rights…that they were able to pursue and were awarded damage compensation. I agree with LynnDavid that the total award of $7000 seems like a pittance though. (Although I’m not sure what $7000 amounts to in the Ugandan economy.)
Does anyone happen to know what transpired beyond the $7000 compensation? Were the perpetrators of the abuse disciplined (fired, fined, jailed…)?
LOL. Ken, I believe you’d lose that bet. Even Rumsfeld referred to Africa as a country…apparently forgetting that it’s a continent comprised of numerous countries. (And I’ve seen enough episodes of “Jay-Walking” on The Tonight Show to know that ‘the average american’ is ignorant of both current events and recent history in America. To suppose they have a knowledge of Africa is a bit of a stretch. (How about a test? Approach a handful of people and ask them to name 4 countries in Africa.)
I’m thinking the term ‘gayism’ probably comes across as backward to many but, since the majority of Ugandans don’t believe in the concept of ‘orientation’, they shun the word ‘homosexuality’ because that concept is built right into the word. (We don’t say ‘gayism’ but you will find both ‘homosexualism’ and ‘lesbianism’ in the online dictionary…so Maazi’s usage of ‘gayism’ isn’t a major stretch.)
I guess you can’t believe anything from a Ugandan newspaper then. I read so much news and I trust my memory, but maybe I got it wrong. But then you do agree that Mukasa and Oyoo were arrested, that their rights to privacy, personal liberty and their human dignity were violated and molested by the police in sometimes inhumane treatments. All that was decided in the court case. Maybe I got the $7000 figure wrong, but it seemed to be such a pitance that it stuck in my mind when I saw it.
Oh! Wait! There’s where I saw the figure….
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7797566.stm
Good ole BBC…..
Dr. Warren,
I would love to get any contacts to Pastor Malinga. A chat with him would probably help me also understand that homo who was about to be burnt alive.
Secondly in that interview, you can clearly see the stand of the local population who does not anything to do with Scott Lively, probably Ssempa and Bahati. Their values speak for themselves. Yes, it is the work of the police to protect every citizen of Uganda including homos. There was no indoctrination…nothing of the sort, it is just the values of the people. The same thing also happened in Malawi.
One thing I keep noting on this blog is that there is a deliberate attempt to ignore the genuine voice of the ugandan citizens. Warren, Lyn etc keep bashing these genuine voices while lifting up theirs. Well it is what you chose to do but we’ll be victorious all the same.
Ken,
welcome on board. I hope you are getting into a subject that you are well informed about. And I hope we’ll have an objective discussion here. Your rant against Maazi already exhibits your lack of understanding about Uganda. I would refer you to Anthropological write ups about Uganda. When one does not agree with you, your usual stand is always to demonise him/her. This will not deter our committment to defending our sovereignity.
Lynn David is another misinformed guy who rlies on hearsay to develop his so called accurate stories. Was Oyo and Victor really awarded that $7000? Where they really thrown in police cells? Please check your records correctly before you shoot up with inaccurate information.
You know America expects everyone to bow to their ill demands but you there is a lot out there with knees that can never bend. Nowonder some few Americans on this blog keep trying to enforce unacceptable social evils to us. As Dr. Warren says You Americans will do your part, I want to let you know we Ugandans will also do our part..
I was horrified by LynnDavid’s recounting of the story where individuals were urinated upon and one was doused in a chemical. (Not certain if that was the lesbians or not.) Sadly, it reminded me of the American troops who humiliated the prisoners of war with punishment intended to be sexually degrading. It is my sincere hope that Uganda will also punish those who ‘take the law into their own hands’ or who decide to add further penalities (such as physical and sexual abuse) to those who are incarcerated for any crime.
I realize that this is more a glimmer of hope rather than a ray of light but I take some encouragement that the lesbians maintained citizenship rights…that they were able to pursue and were awarded damage compensation. I agree with LynnDavid that the total award of $7000 seems like a pittance though. (Although I’m not sure what $7000 amounts to in the Ugandan economy.)
Does anyone happen to know what transpired beyond the $7000 compensation? Were the perpetrators of the abuse disciplined (fired, fined, jailed…)?
LOL. Ken, I believe you’d lose that bet. Even Rumsfeld referred to Africa as a country…apparently forgetting that it’s a continent comprised of numerous countries. (And I’ve seen enough episodes of “Jay-Walking” on The Tonight Show to know that ‘the average american’ is ignorant of both current events and recent history in America. To suppose they have a knowledge of Africa is a bit of a stretch. (How about a test? Approach a handful of people and ask them to name 4 countries in Africa.)
I’m thinking the term ‘gayism’ probably comes across as backward to many but, since the majority of Ugandans don’t believe in the concept of ‘orientation’, they shun the word ‘homosexuality’ because that concept is built right into the word. (We don’t say ‘gayism’ but you will find both ‘homosexualism’ and ‘lesbianism’ in the online dictionary…so Maazi’s usage of ‘gayism’ isn’t a major stretch.)
I guess you can’t believe anything from a Ugandan newspaper then. I read so much news and I trust my memory, but maybe I got it wrong. But then you do agree that Mukasa and Oyoo were arrested, that their rights to privacy, personal liberty and their human dignity were violated and molested by the police in sometimes inhumane treatments. All that was decided in the court case. Maybe I got the $7000 figure wrong, but it seemed to be such a pitance that it stuck in my mind when I saw it.
Oh! Wait! There’s where I saw the figure….
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7797566.stm
Good ole BBC…..
While you may know more about your own country (and perhaps continent) than many americans, I would bet the average american knows more about Africa than you know about sexual orientation (or sexuality in general).
Your comments on “gayism” only show your ignorance of the subject. And it is quite clear you are not interested in learning anything about it.
What can I say, links get broken, I’ve not been apprised of the New Vision archive.
Heck, even I remember the two lesbians whose home was invaded by the police in 2008 or thereabouts and they got arrested and carted off to jail or wherever. It was a big case in Uganda and eventually the two of them won a judgement against the government/police and got $7000 for their troubles.
But you’ll choose any reason not to seek truth.
While you may know more about your own country (and perhaps continent) than many americans, I would bet the average american knows more about Africa than you know about sexual orientation (or sexuality in general).
Your comments on “gayism” only show your ignorance of the subject. And it is quite clear you are not interested in learning anything about it.
Professor, Lynn. There is nothing to convince me and other readers that, that’s truth, not made up stories…
The first link does not exist…!!!?
Everyone can try it…
Then you refer to ‘New Vision’ (the Uganda national paper) for the rest of the stories.
New Vision has Archive section that is accessible by everyone. Be specific link to us those stories from the New Vision Archive.
Professor, Lynn. There is nothing to convince me and other readers that, that’s truth, not made up stories…
The first link does not exist…!!!?
Everyone can try it…
Then you refer to ‘New Vision’ (the Uganda national paper) for the rest of the stories.
New Vision has Archive section that is accessible by everyone. Be specific link to us those stories from the New Vision Archive.
andy – Go ask Pastor Mark Malinga in Mbale what would have happened to Fred if the police had not come along…
andy – Go ask Pastor Mark Malinga in Mbale what would have happened to Fred if the police had not come along…
Lynn David – Now that is what I call on topic 🙂
Thanks for those documented cases, I am collecting them…
September 1999 – Museveni orders the arrest of gays and lesbians. Museveni said, “I have told the CID [Criminal Investigations Department] to look for homosexuals, lock them up and charge them.” He was quoted in the state-owned newspaper New Vision. During that time Amnesty International took up the cause of three Christian homosexuals jailed and beaten in Uganda for their sexual orientation.
Eric Beauchemin aired “John’s story” on Radio Netherlands – www2.rnw.nl/rnw/en/features/humanrights/Uganda_ john.html on 12 January, 2004. Part of it said, “I was living with another guy. The police received a tip-off that we were gay. Officials from the Directorate of Military Intelligence came to our house at 2am. They arrested us and took us to one of their safe houses. They kept on urinating on us. They didn’t give us any food and didn’t light the room. Then they put two dead rotting bodies in our small cell. Later they separated us and started interrogating us. They thought we were being funded by a foreign organization and they wanted the information. I protested. I grabbed one of the guys by the collar and started fighting with him. He called the other guys in. They hurt me so much. They flogged me, and then they poured a chemical solution on me. My skin started rotting after we were moved out of the detention house. I had to take medication and antibiotics for six months. But I was left with scars on my back and my arms.”
.
September/October 2006 – There were reported arrests of five men under Uganda’s sodomy laws. Mutayi Vincent and Safari Joseph were arrested in Kibye. Evangelista Ariel Ramos and Hamis Ssentongo were arrested in Mbare. David Kamoga was originally held in Kirinya Prison. All were being held on the basis of their presumed sexual orientation. The arrests of these men were reported in various Ugandan newspapers.
.
I think this was earlier in 2006: Fifteen gays arrested from the western part of Uganda, Masindi, have been given life prison sentences. The gay men where rounded up after long surveillance operation in Masindi. They were given a life sentence without a court trial. The investigating officer Mr Mark Ruhinda claimed the reason no trial should occur because “no one could sit in court and listen to these sick people explaining why they like fellow men, this was a decision that came from the top..”
On 13th April 2006, the Government spokesman Dr James Nsaba Buturo [then the Minister of Information?] promised to arrest gay Ugandans known to be operating a church. Doctor Nsaba Buturo said, “this is should send a loud and clear message to all they gay people in Uganda, we will find them and lock them up for life.” Here again the government publicly confirmed that they are cracking down on homosexuality and handing down sentences. (from Muhumuza Gerald in The News Watch, 27rd April 2006, quoting the main Kampala daily newspaper, The New Vision)
Francesco Mascini, the first secretary at the royal Netherlands embassy, said they had received information that some gays were being tortured in some detention centres. He was speaking at the launch of the Uganda Human Rights Commission (UHRC) annual report. (Financial Times Information/BBC Monitoring International Reports, October 20, 2004)
I’ll stop there….
Lynn David – Now that is what I call on topic 🙂
Thanks for those documented cases, I am collecting them…
September 1999 – Museveni orders the arrest of gays and lesbians. Museveni said, “I have told the CID [Criminal Investigations Department] to look for homosexuals, lock them up and charge them.” He was quoted in the state-owned newspaper New Vision. During that time Amnesty International took up the cause of three Christian homosexuals jailed and beaten in Uganda for their sexual orientation.
Eric Beauchemin aired “John’s story” on Radio Netherlands – www2.rnw.nl/rnw/en/features/humanrights/Uganda_ john.html on 12 January, 2004. Part of it said, “I was living with another guy. The police received a tip-off that we were gay. Officials from the Directorate of Military Intelligence came to our house at 2am. They arrested us and took us to one of their safe houses. They kept on urinating on us. They didn’t give us any food and didn’t light the room. Then they put two dead rotting bodies in our small cell. Later they separated us and started interrogating us. They thought we were being funded by a foreign organization and they wanted the information. I protested. I grabbed one of the guys by the collar and started fighting with him. He called the other guys in. They hurt me so much. They flogged me, and then they poured a chemical solution on me. My skin started rotting after we were moved out of the detention house. I had to take medication and antibiotics for six months. But I was left with scars on my back and my arms.”
.
September/October 2006 – There were reported arrests of five men under Uganda’s sodomy laws. Mutayi Vincent and Safari Joseph were arrested in Kibye. Evangelista Ariel Ramos and Hamis Ssentongo were arrested in Mbare. David Kamoga was originally held in Kirinya Prison. All were being held on the basis of their presumed sexual orientation. The arrests of these men were reported in various Ugandan newspapers.
.
I think this was earlier in 2006: Fifteen gays arrested from the western part of Uganda, Masindi, have been given life prison sentences. The gay men where rounded up after long surveillance operation in Masindi. They were given a life sentence without a court trial. The investigating officer Mr Mark Ruhinda claimed the reason no trial should occur because “no one could sit in court and listen to these sick people explaining why they like fellow men, this was a decision that came from the top..”
On 13th April 2006, the Government spokesman Dr James Nsaba Buturo [then the Minister of Information?] promised to arrest gay Ugandans known to be operating a church. Doctor Nsaba Buturo said, “this is should send a loud and clear message to all they gay people in Uganda, we will find them and lock them up for life.” Here again the government publicly confirmed that they are cracking down on homosexuality and handing down sentences. (from Muhumuza Gerald in The News Watch, 27rd April 2006, quoting the main Kampala daily newspaper, The New Vision)
Francesco Mascini, the first secretary at the royal Netherlands embassy, said they had received information that some gays were being tortured in some detention centres. He was speaking at the launch of the Uganda Human Rights Commission (UHRC) annual report. (Financial Times Information/BBC Monitoring International Reports, October 20, 2004)
I’ll stop there….
.
Professor link to us that credible source, thats all i need to confirm your point here.
and you say
I think your the one feeding us with ignorance… because you have failed to prove your point on this post by bringing up satisfactory evidence. We don’t believe in those videos made up by Gay lobbyists.
@ Maazi, Thanks for the good comment
Warrens first comment on your lack of the ability to learn might fit your lack of understanding of Warren’s use of “his words” in his statement concerning Scott Lively. Lively is a narcissist who likes to claim in his own words that he is the alpha/beginning of many things including country-wide pogroms against gays and lesbians under the aegis of “pro-family” organizations.
Hahaha, you want to teach me about my own country?
Wow, so in the Gospel according to Saint Warren Throckmorton, it was Scott Lively that hypnotized and brainwashed all Ugandans (including me) into believing that gayism was an abhorrent sexual behaviour that transgresses on African culture and traditions. According to this gospel, before 2002, all Ugandans loved and tolerated gay sex practitioners and were even going to grant them same-sex marriage rights until evil Scott Lively arrived with the magic portions that transformed us from gay sex lovers to rabid anti-gay sex supporters.
Maazi – You are an educated man but you are not teachable.
The Americans have been coming to Uganda since I was a boy and Scott Lively’s first visit there was 2002. If there is a contest to see who was there first, the Christians get the trophy. Most came to save souls but people like Lively came to start the pro-family movement (his words).
All – most of this banter is off topic. The issue of this post is the fact that Martin Ssempa said no gays have been arrested under colonial law. He is either ignorant of his own country or misleading his audience.
.
Professor link to us that credible source, thats all i need to confirm your point here.
and you say
I think your the one feeding us with ignorance… because you have failed to prove your point on this post by bringing up satisfactory evidence. We don’t believe in those videos made up by Gay lobbyists.
@ Maazi, Thanks for the good comment
Mike,
I am a well educated man. Please do not patronize me or my people. The provocation of Ugandans by the Euro-American Gay Lobby began as far back as 2007, long before your American christian fundamentalist compatriots showed up. Please go and read all my previous commentaries on this blog. But I admit that it is great propaganda for the Gay Lobby to claim that our attempt to ban gayism began with the 2009 visit of Rick Warren, Scott Lively et al.
Hazemyth,
You are not interested in dialogue with Africans. You simply want to ram your deviant sexual culture down our collective throats. We refuse to let you and your ilk do that. You can call me a troll or whatever names you like, but the Ugandan people will not be moved an inch from protecting our cultural values.
Warrens first comment on your lack of the ability to learn might fit your lack of understanding of Warren’s use of “his words” in his statement concerning Scott Lively. Lively is a narcissist who likes to claim in his own words that he is the alpha/beginning of many things including country-wide pogroms against gays and lesbians under the aegis of “pro-family” organizations.
Hahaha, you want to teach me about my own country?
Wow, so in the Gospel according to Saint Warren Throckmorton, it was Scott Lively that hypnotized and brainwashed all Ugandans (including me) into believing that gayism was an abhorrent sexual behaviour that transgresses on African culture and traditions. According to this gospel, before 2002, all Ugandans loved and tolerated gay sex practitioners and were even going to grant them same-sex marriage rights until evil Scott Lively arrived with the magic portions that transformed us from gay sex lovers to rabid anti-gay sex supporters.
Maazi – You are an educated man but you are not teachable.
The Americans have been coming to Uganda since I was a boy and Scott Lively’s first visit there was 2002. If there is a contest to see who was there first, the Christians get the trophy. Most came to save souls but people like Lively came to start the pro-family movement (his words).
All – most of this banter is off topic. The issue of this post is the fact that Martin Ssempa said no gays have been arrested under colonial law. He is either ignorant of his own country or misleading his audience.
I don’t often comment here but I do enjoy the dialogue of faith between people of differing perspectives. It’s relatively unique in the blogosphere. It’s a shame that it’s been hijacked by a number of partisans that are clearly not interested in dialogue.
In my experience, you need to choose who you engage, if you’re looking to arrive anywhere. You cannot convince people that seek to be obstinate or divisive. I can’t think of a better demonstration of that than the above. Engaging them just derails everything.
Or, in short, don’t feed the trolls. 😛
Mike,
I am a well educated man. Please do not patronize me or my people. The provocation of Ugandans by the Euro-American Gay Lobby began as far back as 2007, long before your American christian fundamentalist compatriots showed up. Please go and read all my previous commentaries on this blog. But I admit that it is great propaganda for the Gay Lobby to claim that our attempt to ban gayism began with the 2009 visit of Rick Warren, Scott Lively et al.
Hazemyth,
You are not interested in dialogue with Africans. You simply want to ram your deviant sexual culture down our collective throats. We refuse to let you and your ilk do that. You can call me a troll or whatever names you like, but the Ugandan people will not be moved an inch from protecting our cultural values.
Who’s whipping up that anti-gay fervor that may require the police to prevent civil unrest? Maybe it s folks from the USA and influential relgious and political leaders from within Uganda itself that are deliberately spreading falsehoods about gay people. Gays aren’t working your people into a frenzy. Homophobes, religious zealots and hate-mongers are doing that.
Folks like Lively, Engle, Ssempa and Oyet — folks that are telling the Ugdandan people that gays were the ones responsible for the holocaust and the Rwandan genocide, that gays want to molest your children, that they are “worse than animals”, that they are all depraved sickos who “eat da poo-poo” and that hey need to be harshly punished to protect your “traditions”.
They are the ones adding fuel to the smoldering fire of fear and hatred. Quit blaming that on the gays.
All the more reason why a new law is needed to empower the police and prevent civil unrest that may occur if people are frustrated into taking extra-judicial action on this deviant sexual behaviour .
Andy,
These foreign gay lobbyists are not interested in the truth. They merely want to create hysteria in the West about Uganda in the hope that their influential governments and the international organizations they indirectly control will be able to intimidate our country into ending our plan to banish gayism. What they don’t know of course is that Ugandan people are resilient and very intelligent. Warren and his friends will eventually see that propaganda has little or no effect on our people.
I don’t often comment here but I do enjoy the dialogue of faith between people of differing perspectives. It’s relatively unique in the blogosphere. It’s a shame that it’s been hijacked by a number of partisans that are clearly not interested in dialogue.
In my experience, you need to choose who you engage, if you’re looking to arrive anywhere. You cannot convince people that seek to be obstinate or divisive. I can’t think of a better demonstration of that than the above. Engaging them just derails everything.
Or, in short, don’t feed the trolls. 😛
Who’s whipping up that anti-gay fervor that may require the police to prevent civil unrest? Maybe it s folks from the USA and influential relgious and political leaders from within Uganda itself that are deliberately spreading falsehoods about gay people. Gays aren’t working your people into a frenzy. Homophobes, religious zealots and hate-mongers are doing that.
Folks like Lively, Engle, Ssempa and Oyet — folks that are telling the Ugdandan people that gays were the ones responsible for the holocaust and the Rwandan genocide, that gays want to molest your children, that they are “worse than animals”, that they are all depraved sickos who “eat da poo-poo” and that hey need to be harshly punished to protect your “traditions”.
They are the ones adding fuel to the smoldering fire of fear and hatred. Quit blaming that on the gays.
andy: First of all, deal with what is. The hoax you say i made up, I did not make up and i reported as a false report when it became clear that it was.
I am not making up any reports, only relating what I have been told by credible sources. I always correct when facts are otherwise. I wish for the same from bill supporters. Thus far, I can find no corrections of their misrepresentations.
Now, I will it to you to interpret the pastor and crowd in this clip:
The gay man is still alive but it appears that it is because of your police.
Yes… so now i take this chance to announce to every reader, that this report is false till you (professor) bring up evidence.
And as far as i know(am a Ugandan) No homosexual has been killed.
The whole point your trying to make is to present Ugandans as murderer, haters and a whole lot of negativity.
Any one who has come to Uganda can testify that Ugandans are hospitable people and good ( besides gay lobbies )
This is not a first false report your making, here is another Hoax you made up.
All the more reason why a new law is needed to empower the police and prevent civil unrest that may occur if people are frustrated into taking extra-judicial action on this deviant sexual behaviour .
Andy,
These foreign gay lobbyists are not interested in the truth. They merely want to create hysteria in the West about Uganda in the hope that their influential governments and the international organizations they indirectly control will be able to intimidate our country into ending our plan to banish gayism. What they don’t know of course is that Ugandan people are resilient and very intelligent. Warren and his friends will eventually see that propaganda has little or no effect on our people.
andy: I need to get the name of the police authorities and exact dates to proceed. I have not published it based on the reports I have because I cannot verify with officials. The sources are very credible but I don’t want to go forward without more.
andy: First of all, deal with what is. The hoax you say i made up, I did not make up and i reported as a false report when it became clear that it was.
I am not making up any reports, only relating what I have been told by credible sources. I always correct when facts are otherwise. I wish for the same from bill supporters. Thus far, I can find no corrections of their misrepresentations.
Now, I will it to you to interpret the pastor and crowd in this clip:
The gay man is still alive but it appears that it is because of your police.
Yes… so now i take this chance to announce to every reader, that this report is false till you (professor) bring up evidence.
And as far as i know(am a Ugandan) No homosexual has been killed.
The whole point your trying to make is to present Ugandans as murderer, haters and a whole lot of negativity.
Any one who has come to Uganda can testify that Ugandans are hospitable people and good ( besides gay lobbies )
This is not a first false report your making, here is another Hoax you made up.
The phrase “Witch Hunt” has a different meaning in Uganda, Kenya, and neighbouring countries.
This is a witch hunt in Kenya.
Setting fire to those accused of grave crimes – such as communing with Evil Spirits – is traditional in that part of the world.
andy: I need to get the name of the police authorities and exact dates to proceed. I have not published it based on the reports I have because I cannot verify with officials. The sources are very credible but I don’t want to go forward without more.
Professor, I think you should put up evidence concerning that. And please do…
Otherwise…put off that report till you get convincing evidence.
The phrase “Witch Hunt” has a different meaning in Uganda, Kenya, and neighbouring countries.
This is a witch hunt in Kenya.
Setting fire to those accused of grave crimes – such as communing with Evil Spirits – is traditional in that part of the world.
Professor, I think you should put up evidence concerning that. And please do…
Otherwise…put off that report till you get convincing evidence.
Homosexuality in Uganda is a mystery covered in an enigma covered in silent comfort and excused as a vice best wished away through ignorance.
Homosexuality in Uganda is a mystery covered in an enigma covered in silent comfort and excused as a vice best wished away through ignorance.
Excellent work, Warren
Excellent work, Warren