Can’t understand where the people don’t and can’t walk away and let “the dead bury the dead” and ALL the money dry up. MD shouldn’t like the many mentioned, shouldn’t even have a following at all. Yes, they’re all false, no fruit. Appreciated the teaching “why our church, no longer listens to Bethel, Hillsong and Elevation Music” with the Bible exposing hucksters, false teachers. Read Bible!

More seemingly, theologically orthodox leaders and organizations, such as Mark, may not invoke this passage, but as Benjamin’s account and the CT’s Mars Hill podcast, the RZIM issues, and other similar incidents clearly indicates that the same attitude and spirit is there that the leader is untouchable, because he is the man of God. And lest, individuals think this is limited to the traditional church, having recently left a mainline denomination, the same attitude exists….to question a departure from orthodoxy (both general and historic denominational polity) is deemed unacceptable, even if the leadership acknowledges the right to dissent, particularly on matters not pertaining to salvation, actions and attitudes indicate otherwise. Frankly, be it the prosperity preachers, individuals such as Driscoll, or the far-left, so-called progressives generally leading most mainline churches, I am inclined to start calling all of them, what they are….false prophets and false teachers, for essentially, they all are peddling the same thing, its just are they focused on money and mammon, fame, or a highly individualistic, libertine attitude towards morality.

I keep seeing people say this to people who claim to be Calvinist, to the point where I have to figure that “fortunate” is roughly even odds of things coming out okay. I think the problem is less, “Calvinism doesn’t work,” and is far more likely, “like any system of thought, when you wield Calvinism as a truncheon with which to smite the unfaithful, it doesn’t work and hurts you as much as the unfaithful.”

Thanks for the working link.

That link is broken; let me see if I can overcome the quirks of Disqus:
https://religiondispatches.org/sharing-many-of-the-same-flaws-as-its-subject-the-rise-and-fall-of-mars-hill-podcast-puts-blame-anywhere-but-where-it-belongs/

Yes, I did like that! Thank you for your time and expertise.
And I’m looking forward to your discussion on the covid outbreak at The Trinity Church last winter.

No it was before Mark and Grace did the cult shunning and both were well aware of the accident. It was within a few months of the firings so both had hardened their hearts.

The main problem I see with Calvinism, as far as fruit goes, is the fact that some of its fans take the preaching and practice of it to a place of antinomianism which is a heresy. At that place no one is actually responsible for any of their actions anymore for all sinful acts are “predestined” to occur. This teaching removes Jesus Christ as The Truth and replaces Him with the Greek philosophy of Determinism as The High God. Then the creator God becomes subservient to this philosophy. The Creator no longer is allowed sovereignty in one key area: Free Will. He is now forbidden to give anyone any Limited Free Will, which makes God slave to the Greek Philosophy. This is ironic that Sovereignty is promoted so highly that it actually removes it from God.

This is obviously an error as it contradicts most of the messages in our Bible. Verses like “I declare to you today that you will surely perish; you shall not prolong your days in the land that you are crossing the Jordan to possess. Today I have given you the choice between life and death, between blessings and curses. Now I call on heaven and earth to witness the choice you make. Oh, that you would choose life, so that you and your descendants might live!” Deut. 30:18 Calvinism that denies the ability to choose life or death is most obviously a heresy. And this kind of Calvinism is what I think Petry is referring to. This kind allows men like Driscoll to abuse and to believe that there are no consequences for it. But do not call me an Arminian for I see their arguments to be for Absolute Free Will vs. No Free Will in Calvinism. This is a false distinction that is not a part of our scriptures. There is a lot of grey ground between the extremes. And God obviously allows some amount of limited free will that appears to vary according to how much or how little He gives an individual. To whom much is given much will be required.

My point was that Mark Driscoll’s behavior is a reflection of his character, of who he is, and cannot be laid at the feet of any system of doctrine, such as Calvinism. Someone with his character will use and leverage doctrine and theology for his own benefit, but it does not thereby invalidate that doctrine. Driscoll cannot say, “Calvinism made me do it.”