Comments on: A Former Mars Hill Church Pastor Speaks Out About Mark Driscoll

By: MaryKaye

MaryKaye — Tue, 06 Jul 2021 01:47:03 +0000

In reply to mirele. Thank you for the link: really interesting paper! (70% of attendees attended church "weekly or more often.")

By: Otter2

Otter2 — Sat, 03 Jul 2021 21:03:25 +0000

I was long gone when Andrew came on board and before the campuses were rebranded “churches”. But in his letter when he talks about shepherding — I replayed from Wayback when Pastor Bill talked about my mom. I love that man and hope all is well with him. Campus pastors preaching built so much trust, wherein Mark, even live was just this distant figure

I never considered Driscoll my pastor,

Never would Driscoll have done what Clem did, nor would he had have a clue that maybe he could have been helpful. Being a counselor is in the job description. Gifted or not. Just as well, he would have pronounced my 87 y/o (at the time) demonic.

By: Barb

Barb — Fri, 02 Jul 2021 10:36:35 +0000

I was a “counselor “ at the Graham crusade in Seattle in the late 70s. Our training was to 1. Attend as many nights as we could 2. Sit scattered throughout (btw this was the first event ever held in the Kingdome). 3. Go forward at the call 4. Find someone to get a name and address from and give them some literature. I was surprised to learn that a large portion of the people who went forward were counselors.

By: Digger

Digger — Thu, 01 Jul 2021 23:45:49 +0000

In reply to mirele. Throughout my adult life I've run into dozens to hundreds of folks who "converted" at a Graham crusade, more than one time.. It always makes you wonder..

By: Digger

Digger — Thu, 01 Jul 2021 23:40:20 +0000

In reply to Tacitus. That's the thing. There's no follow up. that was true of the Graham crusades for years.. willow creek let a Ph.d sociologist into their ministry to analyze the phenomena. His findings weren't complimentary.

By: Tacitus

Tacitus — Thu, 01 Jul 2021 22:32:53 +0000

In reply to Digger.

It’s the same for crusades. Studies have shown that the vast majority of those who respond to altar calls (who aren’t already Christians) backslide again once the initial euphoria of the moment wears off. I attended a Luis Palau crusade way back when I was a teenager and remember well the orchestrated use of swelling music and oratory designed to get people in the mood for the altar call.

So when most ministries boast of saving millions, it’s an empty boast. Divide their claimed number by 10 and you’re probably still well to the high side of the real figure, and they should know that if they have any type of follow-up process at all.

By: Digger

Digger — Thu, 01 Jul 2021 21:47:56 +0000

In reply to Mr Jesperson. True dat...

By: William Marshall Johnston

William Marshall Johnston — Thu, 01 Jul 2021 21:37:29 +0000

In reply to Digger. A number of us from a range of churches tried to do follow-ups after the last Graham Fresno Crusade (we were given the names of folks with whom to check) and found in every case exactly what is described in the comments above. It was deflating for those of us who hoped it might be a legitimate way to spread the Gospel.

By: Mr Jesperson

Mr Jesperson — Thu, 01 Jul 2021 20:08:20 +0000

Makes me think of Gal. 3: “Oh, foolish Galatians! Who has cast an evil spell on you? For the meaning of Jesus Christ’s death was made as clear to you as if you had seen a picture of his death on the cross.” The people getting caught up in any of these cults of personality are not paying attention to the real Jesus Christ or the Holy Spirit either. It is sad as this time all of this is so avoidable, but people flock to his church because he refuses to exercise any caution during a pandemic! These people are unfortunately going out of their way looking for a blind guide to lie to them and they will all fall down into the ditch together.

By: mirele

mirele — Thu, 01 Jul 2021 19:32:20 +0000

In reply to Digger.

This is from 1975, so OLD, but from the heyday of the Billy Graham crusades. It’s also not generally available, but the abstract is intriguing:
https://www.jstor.org/stable/4105757

Literature on religious conversion contains turnabout and ritualistic explanations. This paper examines the nature of the contemporary religious revival or crusade and finds evidence that revival conversions are ritualistic, integrative events. Crusaders are overwhelmingly church members and frequent church attenders. The Graham organization carefully structures the conversion process through local community organization, counselors, screening questions, literature, and church referrals. The crusade also emphasizes the integration of dependent-aged youth.