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	<title>
	Comments on: Trump&#8217;s Visit to Arizona: COVID Ionization and Irresponsibility	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2020/06/22/trumps-visit-to-arizona-covid-ionization-and-no-responsibility/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2020/06/22/trumps-visit-to-arizona-covid-ionization-and-no-responsibility/</link>
	<description>A [retired] college psychology professor&#039;s observations about public policy, mental health, sexual identity, and religious issues</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2020 19:26:29 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: ken		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2020/06/22/trumps-visit-to-arizona-covid-ionization-and-no-responsibility/#comment-108003</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ken]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2020 19:26:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=36060#comment-108003</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2020/06/22/trumps-visit-to-arizona-covid-ionization-and-no-responsibility/#comment-107997&quot;&gt;CM&lt;/a&gt;.

You really are just wasting your time trying to engage LT in a reasonable conversation.  He&#039;s not capable of it.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2020/06/22/trumps-visit-to-arizona-covid-ionization-and-no-responsibility/#comment-107997">CM</a>.</p>
<p>You really are just wasting your time trying to engage LT in a reasonable conversation.  He&#8217;s not capable of it.</p>
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		<title>
		By: LT		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2020/06/22/trumps-visit-to-arizona-covid-ionization-and-no-responsibility/#comment-107996</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[LT]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2020 18:18:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=36060#comment-107996</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2020/06/22/trumps-visit-to-arizona-covid-ionization-and-no-responsibility/#comment-107995&quot;&gt;CM&lt;/a&gt;.

No, that is not true. Blacks have far more frequent interactions with police but far fewer cases of violence or brutality. Statistically, since blacks have far more interactions, you would expect far more deaths and violence. But it isn&#039;t true. 

In almost every cast, the non-police party does something to antagonize the police by resisting, fighting back, refusal, etc. 

Catch up on the real statistics.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2020/06/22/trumps-visit-to-arizona-covid-ionization-and-no-responsibility/#comment-107995">CM</a>.</p>
<p>No, that is not true. Blacks have far more frequent interactions with police but far fewer cases of violence or brutality. Statistically, since blacks have far more interactions, you would expect far more deaths and violence. But it isn&#8217;t true. </p>
<p>In almost every cast, the non-police party does something to antagonize the police by resisting, fighting back, refusal, etc. </p>
<p>Catch up on the real statistics.</p>
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		<title>
		By: LT		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2020/06/22/trumps-visit-to-arizona-covid-ionization-and-no-responsibility/#comment-108002</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[LT]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2020 17:17:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=36060#comment-108002</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2020/06/22/trumps-visit-to-arizona-covid-ionization-and-no-responsibility/#comment-107973&quot;&gt;Daniel &#039;n&#039; Terry Unruh&lt;/a&gt;.

I think you (inadvertently probably) hit the nail on the head here: Conversing with folks here at Warren&#039;s blog is like trying to nail jello to the wall. Very few people will come with actual facts, hard data, and well-reasoned arguments (or arguments at all for that matter). Conversing with people like you is nailing jello to a wall. You got pinned down on hypocrisy and bail out rather than making an argument in your defense. You, like Ken and some others, just turn to personal attacks.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2020/06/22/trumps-visit-to-arizona-covid-ionization-and-no-responsibility/#comment-107973">Daniel &#8216;n&#8217; Terry Unruh</a>.</p>
<p>I think you (inadvertently probably) hit the nail on the head here: Conversing with folks here at Warren&#8217;s blog is like trying to nail jello to the wall. Very few people will come with actual facts, hard data, and well-reasoned arguments (or arguments at all for that matter). Conversing with people like you is nailing jello to a wall. You got pinned down on hypocrisy and bail out rather than making an argument in your defense. You, like Ken and some others, just turn to personal attacks.</p>
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		<title>
		By: LT		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2020/06/22/trumps-visit-to-arizona-covid-ionization-and-no-responsibility/#comment-108001</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[LT]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2020 17:15:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=36060#comment-108001</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2020/06/22/trumps-visit-to-arizona-covid-ionization-and-no-responsibility/#comment-107972&quot;&gt;ken&lt;/a&gt;.

Yes, it is foolish to come without facts and without argument.  You learned that long ago and learned to stay out of conversations that you couldn&#039;t participate in with reason.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2020/06/22/trumps-visit-to-arizona-covid-ionization-and-no-responsibility/#comment-107972">ken</a>.</p>
<p>Yes, it is foolish to come without facts and without argument.  You learned that long ago and learned to stay out of conversations that you couldn&#8217;t participate in with reason.</p>
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		<title>
		By: CM		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2020/06/22/trumps-visit-to-arizona-covid-ionization-and-no-responsibility/#comment-107995</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[CM]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2020 16:38:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=36060#comment-107995</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2020/06/22/trumps-visit-to-arizona-covid-ionization-and-no-responsibility/#comment-107969&quot;&gt;LT&lt;/a&gt;.

Except of course if you normalize the police deaths to the black and white populations, you find that blacks are more likely to be killed by police.  Mathematics 101.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2020/06/22/trumps-visit-to-arizona-covid-ionization-and-no-responsibility/#comment-107969">LT</a>.</p>
<p>Except of course if you normalize the police deaths to the black and white populations, you find that blacks are more likely to be killed by police.  Mathematics 101.</p>
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		<title>
		By: LT		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2020/06/22/trumps-visit-to-arizona-covid-ionization-and-no-responsibility/#comment-108000</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[LT]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2020 15:46:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=36060#comment-108000</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2020/06/22/trumps-visit-to-arizona-covid-ionization-and-no-responsibility/#comment-107997&quot;&gt;CM&lt;/a&gt;.

And why do you resort so easily to calling names? Why not interact on actual data and facts? Post a link or two to something that supports you and answers the objections about it.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2020/06/22/trumps-visit-to-arizona-covid-ionization-and-no-responsibility/#comment-107997">CM</a>.</p>
<p>And why do you resort so easily to calling names? Why not interact on actual data and facts? Post a link or two to something that supports you and answers the objections about it.</p>
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		<title>
		By: LT		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2020/06/22/trumps-visit-to-arizona-covid-ionization-and-no-responsibility/#comment-107999</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[LT]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2020 15:44:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=36060#comment-107999</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2020/06/22/trumps-visit-to-arizona-covid-ionization-and-no-responsibility/#comment-107997&quot;&gt;CM&lt;/a&gt;.

No. I am very familiar with per capita and I have a clue. There are a lot of nuances in the actual data, but the question is not about overall population. The question is about police interaction. The fact is that when you compare statistics in terms of police interactions, black civilians are less likely to be killed than white civilians, and black or hispanic officers are more likely than white officers to fatally shoot black and hispanic civilians. Or to put it simply,  black people have far more interactions with police than whites, but whites are more often killed by police as a percentage of police interactions. So to use rough numbers, blacks commit about 40-45% of crimes but are only about 25% of police killings. Again, rough numbers, but the point is that the per capita of actual police interactions is the comparison, not the population as a whole. To put it differently, white people are less likely to be killed as a percentage of the total population because they are less likely to be in contact with the police in a dangerous situation.

Here is a study for you if you can understand it: https://www.pnas.org/content/116/32/15877. It is, to my knowledge, the most comprehensive study to date. There is a lot of information here.

Here are a few key quotes from it:
___________________________

Controlling for predictors at the civilian, officer, and county levels, a person fatally shot by police was 6.67 times less likely (OR = 0.15 [0.09, 0.27]) to be Black than White and 3.33 times less likely (OR = 0.30 [0.21, 0.47]) to be Hispanic than White. Thus, in the typical shooting, we did not find evidence of anti-Black or anti-Hispanic disparity.

We did not find evidence for anti-Black or anti-Hispanic disparity in police use of force across all shootings, and, if anything, found anti-White disparities when controlling for race-specific crime. While racial disparity did vary by type of shooting, no one type of shooting showed significant anti-Black or -Hispanic disparity. 

Similarly, Black and Hispanic officers (compared with White officers) were more likely to fatally shoot Black and Hispanic civilians.
___________________________

You can see some responses to it at the same site. You can also Google it and get a lot of information to help you understand how to view the data.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2020/06/22/trumps-visit-to-arizona-covid-ionization-and-no-responsibility/#comment-107997">CM</a>.</p>
<p>No. I am very familiar with per capita and I have a clue. There are a lot of nuances in the actual data, but the question is not about overall population. The question is about police interaction. The fact is that when you compare statistics in terms of police interactions, black civilians are less likely to be killed than white civilians, and black or hispanic officers are more likely than white officers to fatally shoot black and hispanic civilians. Or to put it simply,  black people have far more interactions with police than whites, but whites are more often killed by police as a percentage of police interactions. So to use rough numbers, blacks commit about 40-45% of crimes but are only about 25% of police killings. Again, rough numbers, but the point is that the per capita of actual police interactions is the comparison, not the population as a whole. To put it differently, white people are less likely to be killed as a percentage of the total population because they are less likely to be in contact with the police in a dangerous situation.</p>
<p>Here is a study for you if you can understand it: <a href="https://www.pnas.org/content/116/32/15877" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.pnas.org/content/116/32/15877</a>. It is, to my knowledge, the most comprehensive study to date. There is a lot of information here.</p>
<p>Here are a few key quotes from it:<br />
___________________________</p>
<p>Controlling for predictors at the civilian, officer, and county levels, a person fatally shot by police was 6.67 times less likely (OR = 0.15 [0.09, 0.27]) to be Black than White and 3.33 times less likely (OR = 0.30 [0.21, 0.47]) to be Hispanic than White. Thus, in the typical shooting, we did not find evidence of anti-Black or anti-Hispanic disparity.</p>
<p>We did not find evidence for anti-Black or anti-Hispanic disparity in police use of force across all shootings, and, if anything, found anti-White disparities when controlling for race-specific crime. While racial disparity did vary by type of shooting, no one type of shooting showed significant anti-Black or -Hispanic disparity. </p>
<p>Similarly, Black and Hispanic officers (compared with White officers) were more likely to fatally shoot Black and Hispanic civilians.<br />
___________________________</p>
<p>You can see some responses to it at the same site. You can also Google it and get a lot of information to help you understand how to view the data.</p>
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		<title>
		By: CM		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2020/06/22/trumps-visit-to-arizona-covid-ionization-and-no-responsibility/#comment-107997</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[CM]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2020 14:11:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=36060#comment-107997</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2020/06/22/trumps-visit-to-arizona-covid-ionization-and-no-responsibility/#comment-107996&quot;&gt;LT&lt;/a&gt;.

Like a troll like you has any statistics background or any STEM background for that matter.

If blacks make up 12% of the population, yet are more than 12% of the police deaths, then they are more likely to be killed on a per capita basis.  I never said WHY that happens, merely that it does.  Maybe you should read up on simple statistical concept of PER capita and get an effing clue.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2020/06/22/trumps-visit-to-arizona-covid-ionization-and-no-responsibility/#comment-107996">LT</a>.</p>
<p>Like a troll like you has any statistics background or any STEM background for that matter.</p>
<p>If blacks make up 12% of the population, yet are more than 12% of the police deaths, then they are more likely to be killed on a per capita basis.  I never said WHY that happens, merely that it does.  Maybe you should read up on simple statistical concept of PER capita and get an effing clue.</p>
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		<title>
		By: CM		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2020/06/22/trumps-visit-to-arizona-covid-ionization-and-no-responsibility/#comment-107982</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[CM]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2020 16:12:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=36060#comment-107982</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2020/06/22/trumps-visit-to-arizona-covid-ionization-and-no-responsibility/#comment-107981&quot;&gt;ken&lt;/a&gt;.

In most fabs, the people have their own personal suits with their names on the hangars.  Visiters like vendor FSEs typically use the suit 1 time and then it is laundered or they have their own hanger as well (depending if they are onsite support or not). The disposable face mask, hairnet, gloves, shoe covers are 1 time use.  The hood, suit and boots are regularly laundered.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2020/06/22/trumps-visit-to-arizona-covid-ionization-and-no-responsibility/#comment-107981">ken</a>.</p>
<p>In most fabs, the people have their own personal suits with their names on the hangars.  Visiters like vendor FSEs typically use the suit 1 time and then it is laundered or they have their own hanger as well (depending if they are onsite support or not). The disposable face mask, hairnet, gloves, shoe covers are 1 time use.  The hood, suit and boots are regularly laundered.</p>
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		<title>
		By: ken		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2020/06/22/trumps-visit-to-arizona-covid-ionization-and-no-responsibility/#comment-107981</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ken]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2020 15:05:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=36060#comment-107981</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2020/06/22/trumps-visit-to-arizona-covid-ionization-and-no-responsibility/#comment-107979&quot;&gt;CM&lt;/a&gt;.

that would depend on whether each employee has his/her own personal suit or if they are shared.  If shared, it depends on how well the INSIDE of the suit is cleaned out before the next use.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2020/06/22/trumps-visit-to-arizona-covid-ionization-and-no-responsibility/#comment-107979">CM</a>.</p>
<p>that would depend on whether each employee has his/her own personal suit or if they are shared.  If shared, it depends on how well the INSIDE of the suit is cleaned out before the next use.</p>
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