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	Comments on: From the Past: The Mars Hill Church Board of Elders Wanted Mark Driscoll Out of Ministry	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2020/02/20/from-the-past-the-mars-hill-church-board-of-elders-wanted-mark-driscoll-out-of-ministry/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2020/02/20/from-the-past-the-mars-hill-church-board-of-elders-wanted-mark-driscoll-out-of-ministry/</link>
	<description>A [retired] college psychology professor&#039;s observations about public policy, mental health, sexual identity, and religious issues</description>
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		<title>
		By: yeoberry		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2020/02/20/from-the-past-the-mars-hill-church-board-of-elders-wanted-mark-driscoll-out-of-ministry/#comment-111546</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[yeoberry]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Mar 2021 00:18:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=35604#comment-111546</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[So, all the stuff about plagiarism, abuse, dark innuendos about some horrible sins and it comes down to him supposedly having a short temper and talking back roughly? They destroy a church over that?
It sounds like they needed some mature leadership.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, all the stuff about plagiarism, abuse, dark innuendos about some horrible sins and it comes down to him supposedly having a short temper and talking back roughly? They destroy a church over that?<br />
It sounds like they needed some mature leadership.</p>
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		<title>
		By: thatotherjean		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2020/02/20/from-the-past-the-mars-hill-church-board-of-elders-wanted-mark-driscoll-out-of-ministry/#comment-106164</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[thatotherjean]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Feb 2020 01:42:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=35604#comment-106164</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[So, shorn of religious-speak, Mark Driscoll was found to be hurtful, divisive, arrogant, and unfit to pastor Mars Hill Church, until he resigned from all his leadership posts, underwent a period of reflection (and probably anger management classes), apologized to those he had hurt, and resumed his duties only under the scrutiny of a group of people who could remove him again, if he went back to his previous behavior.  Instead of agreeing, he resigned, and is now lead pastor of a church he started in Arizona.

This sort of bad behavior (of various kinds), followed by an attempt at discipline by what is supposed (I think?) to be a governing body of an independent church, followed by the pastor&#039;s resignation and going elsewhere to start a new church, seems to be standard operating procedure for celebrity--and not so celebrated--preachers with a fundamentalist bent.  Even Ted Haggard has gone back to preaching, as have Jimmy Swaggart, Tullian Tchividjian, and a host of others over the years.  What makes churchgoers fill the pews of these (not very) &quot;reformed&quot; pastors?  Is it the lure of their fame, or a belief that they should be forgiven, or what?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, shorn of religious-speak, Mark Driscoll was found to be hurtful, divisive, arrogant, and unfit to pastor Mars Hill Church, until he resigned from all his leadership posts, underwent a period of reflection (and probably anger management classes), apologized to those he had hurt, and resumed his duties only under the scrutiny of a group of people who could remove him again, if he went back to his previous behavior.  Instead of agreeing, he resigned, and is now lead pastor of a church he started in Arizona.</p>
<p>This sort of bad behavior (of various kinds), followed by an attempt at discipline by what is supposed (I think?) to be a governing body of an independent church, followed by the pastor&#8217;s resignation and going elsewhere to start a new church, seems to be standard operating procedure for celebrity&#8211;and not so celebrated&#8211;preachers with a fundamentalist bent.  Even Ted Haggard has gone back to preaching, as have Jimmy Swaggart, Tullian Tchividjian, and a host of others over the years.  What makes churchgoers fill the pews of these (not very) &#8220;reformed&#8221; pastors?  Is it the lure of their fame, or a belief that they should be forgiven, or what?</p>
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		<title>
		By: otrotierra		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2020/02/20/from-the-past-the-mars-hill-church-board-of-elders-wanted-mark-driscoll-out-of-ministry/#comment-106160</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[otrotierra]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Feb 2020 10:30:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=35604#comment-106160</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2020/02/20/from-the-past-the-mars-hill-church-board-of-elders-wanted-mark-driscoll-out-of-ministry/#comment-106158&quot;&gt;Mr Jesperson&lt;/a&gt;.

You raise some good points here. &quot;Driscoll has always been a narcissist and should have never been given any kind of platform..&quot;

So I wonder what a community structure would look like where the Driscoll&#039;s of the world never get within ten feet of a pulpit, microphone, camera or leadership/authority position of any kind.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2020/02/20/from-the-past-the-mars-hill-church-board-of-elders-wanted-mark-driscoll-out-of-ministry/#comment-106158">Mr Jesperson</a>.</p>
<p>You raise some good points here. &#8220;Driscoll has always been a narcissist and should have never been given any kind of platform..&#8221;</p>
<p>So I wonder what a community structure would look like where the Driscoll&#8217;s of the world never get within ten feet of a pulpit, microphone, camera or leadership/authority position of any kind.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mr Jesperson		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2020/02/20/from-the-past-the-mars-hill-church-board-of-elders-wanted-mark-driscoll-out-of-ministry/#comment-106158</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mr Jesperson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Feb 2020 10:17:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=35604#comment-106158</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2020/02/20/from-the-past-the-mars-hill-church-board-of-elders-wanted-mark-driscoll-out-of-ministry/#comment-106154&quot;&gt;Warren Throckmorton&lt;/a&gt;.

To me the only good thing about this was this statement that came out: &quot;As we walked through this investigation the Holy Spirit impressed upon us that we too have been sinful and that He is calling us to confession and repentance of our own sins. Before God we confess: we are guilty of arrogance, being quick-tempered, we have led in a domineering manner.&quot;  This was a true confession.  

According to the doctrine that you teach: psychology, Driscoll has always been a narcissist and should have never been given any kind of platform anywhere near Christians.  This is because this is an innate trait and not something that is learned.  I believe that this and the other Dark Triad traits are innate, so there exists no real chance of repentance for these people.  We must be educated about their existence and a shrewd Christian will watch out for them and avoid such people at all costs.  We are told to &quot;not even eat with such people.&quot;

Beyond that, confession needs to be followed up with repentance, which is simply changing the course that you are on.  I wonder how many of these men who wrote the confession you quoted have followed it up with true acts of repentance?  How many just went right back to another abusive church environment and eagerly participated in it according to how much authority that they got given?  Oh, and no one should be applauded for a true confession.  This is just basic morality like choosing each day to not take a gun and go kill your enemy or the target of your jealousy.  A moral Christian confesses daily and does make attempts to change those things he realizes are wrong inside.  Immoral &quot;Christians&quot; are not Christians at all according to Jesus Christ.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2020/02/20/from-the-past-the-mars-hill-church-board-of-elders-wanted-mark-driscoll-out-of-ministry/#comment-106154">Warren Throckmorton</a>.</p>
<p>To me the only good thing about this was this statement that came out: &#8220;As we walked through this investigation the Holy Spirit impressed upon us that we too have been sinful and that He is calling us to confession and repentance of our own sins. Before God we confess: we are guilty of arrogance, being quick-tempered, we have led in a domineering manner.&#8221;  This was a true confession.  </p>
<p>According to the doctrine that you teach: psychology, Driscoll has always been a narcissist and should have never been given any kind of platform anywhere near Christians.  This is because this is an innate trait and not something that is learned.  I believe that this and the other Dark Triad traits are innate, so there exists no real chance of repentance for these people.  We must be educated about their existence and a shrewd Christian will watch out for them and avoid such people at all costs.  We are told to &#8220;not even eat with such people.&#8221;</p>
<p>Beyond that, confession needs to be followed up with repentance, which is simply changing the course that you are on.  I wonder how many of these men who wrote the confession you quoted have followed it up with true acts of repentance?  How many just went right back to another abusive church environment and eagerly participated in it according to how much authority that they got given?  Oh, and no one should be applauded for a true confession.  This is just basic morality like choosing each day to not take a gun and go kill your enemy or the target of your jealousy.  A moral Christian confesses daily and does make attempts to change those things he realizes are wrong inside.  Immoral &#8220;Christians&#8221; are not Christians at all according to Jesus Christ.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Warren Throckmorton		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2020/02/20/from-the-past-the-mars-hill-church-board-of-elders-wanted-mark-driscoll-out-of-ministry/#comment-106154</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Warren Throckmorton]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Feb 2020 23:32:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=35604#comment-106154</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2020/02/20/from-the-past-the-mars-hill-church-board-of-elders-wanted-mark-driscoll-out-of-ministry/#comment-106153&quot;&gt;Living Liminal&lt;/a&gt;.

True in this case. Submitting to authority was a big value at MHC until the leaders had to submit to elder authority.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2020/02/20/from-the-past-the-mars-hill-church-board-of-elders-wanted-mark-driscoll-out-of-ministry/#comment-106153">Living Liminal</a>.</p>
<p>True in this case. Submitting to authority was a big value at MHC until the leaders had to submit to elder authority.</p>
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