Especially considering Shapiro doesn’t believe in Jesus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2D_iyY4DGc

I’ve had some experience in this area, to my great regret. Charismatic churches would be high on my “cult” list. The “speaking in tongues” phenomenon could be a study all it’s own, and actually has been I believe. The pressure put on believers to perform in this way is unbelievable (and highly detrimental). Also, the emphasis on emotion is highly manipulative, particularly in the music portion of the service.

I’ve had some experience in this area, to my great regret. Charismatic churches would be high on my “cult” list. The “speaking in tongues” phenomenon could be a study all it’s own, and actually has been I believe. The pressure put on believers to perform in this way is unbelievable (and highly detrimental). Also, the emphasis on emotion is highly manipulative, particularly in the music portion of the service.

The contrast between the charismatic and non-charismatic churches would be intriguing as well, given the rather more dramatic displays expected of the converted in the former.

The contrast between the charismatic and non-charismatic churches would be intriguing as well, given the rather more dramatic displays expected of the converted in the former.

I would as well. The details of that would no doubt be enlightening, if perhaps scary. The most immediate problem I see is that the church, and further the particular congregation, is the tangible incarnation of the one being surrendered to in the here and now. This puts them in the role of the one whose will is supplanting that of the individual (all lofty language aside).

People who are involved in this for any length of time tend to acclimate to the entire concept but for the objective observer, or one who has “deprogrammed,” it can be a terribly disturbing idea. Of course, that will be taken as a sign of rebellion against God, etc. It’s all very human in it’s deviousness, and very much about control.

I would also be interested in knowing just when the mainline churches went off in this particular direction. For most of the Church’s history this was not a thing (the salvation by “being born again,” control seems always to have been a factor).

I couldn’t agree more with all of this. I would be tickled pink if Doc did some reporting on thought control methods in churches and the salvation phenomenon you mentioned.

One of my main issues with Evangelical/Fundamentalist Christianity is the manipulation and control associated with it. This includes mind control, social control, even emotional control. To be sure, I know Christians who do not participate in this, but every church to which I have belonged did. It is also quite evident among some commenters here. The oppressive nature of this is very much like that of cults. I would go as far as to say that many congregations are de facto cults.

When one is forced to say the sky isn’t blue or the grass isn’t green, despite what is in front of one’s face, a core piece of one’s humanity is lost. Then one is told who one can have as a friend, or who one can love, how one can spend one’s money, what one can do for entertainment, etc. Of course, all this will be said to be sourced from scripture, but that is just an easy excuse for way too many bad things.

I have more respect for the Anglican model that puts reason on equal par with scripture and tradition. I find it much less robotic, and less prone to the kind of maniacal actions that some commit while “following god’s word.” Everything in scripture should be passed through the filter of one’s own humanity before taking it to heart. I can’t imagine God expecting anything less. (Isaiah 1:18)

On a related note, I would love to see a serious study of the phenomenon the evangelical church calls “getting saved.” This moment of “surrender” seems similar to that point at which a victim of torture breaks, giving up his will to another. I can’t imagine that is what Jesus really had in mind. Again, it seems far too similar to the mental manipulation of a cult.

Now infuse this kind of control with a strong link to a particular political ideology or party, and you have real danger.