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	Comments on: James MacDonald to Take Sabbatical to Focus on Peacemaking	</title>
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	<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2019/01/16/james-macdonald-to-take-sabbatical-to-focus-on-peacemaking/</link>
	<description>A [retired] college psychology professor&#039;s observations about public policy, mental health, sexual identity, and religious issues</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2019 14:49:32 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Adam Dolhanyk		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2019/01/16/james-macdonald-to-take-sabbatical-to-focus-on-peacemaking/#comment-99594</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Adam Dolhanyk]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2019 14:49:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=33972#comment-99594</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[As with most things, it&#039;ll be about the money.

if the MHC story is any lesson, the question will be this:

1. Does James get to keep control of the narrative. Driscoll gave up Twitter and other social media to appease big donors and senior leaders, which meant that when the narrative turned against him he couldn&#039;t respond.

2. While on &quot;sabbatical&quot;, is James still the guy in charge?

3. Where&#039;s the money? MHC wasn&#039;t sustainable as an organization because they had overextended with high overhead relative to income. This is why campuses were able to sustain as independent churches because they didn&#039;t have to maintain the costs of the central office and constant expansion.

If HBC is documented to have a high debt, but to my knowledge no one know their reserves, so they may be able to whether the storm. James also hasn&#039;t had as high of a profile since the heady days of the Elephant room and TGC leadership, so the target outside of Chicago, might not be as big as it was for Driscoll in 2014.

4. How long the board will continue to act in preservation of the leader vs. preservation of the organization. In MHC&#039;s case, the board and the leader were pretty much the same thing. In the Willow Creek case, the board eventually made the shift but was slow in doing so, far too slow.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As with most things, it&#8217;ll be about the money.</p>
<p>if the MHC story is any lesson, the question will be this:</p>
<p>1. Does James get to keep control of the narrative. Driscoll gave up Twitter and other social media to appease big donors and senior leaders, which meant that when the narrative turned against him he couldn&#8217;t respond.</p>
<p>2. While on &#8220;sabbatical&#8221;, is James still the guy in charge?</p>
<p>3. Where&#8217;s the money? MHC wasn&#8217;t sustainable as an organization because they had overextended with high overhead relative to income. This is why campuses were able to sustain as independent churches because they didn&#8217;t have to maintain the costs of the central office and constant expansion.</p>
<p>If HBC is documented to have a high debt, but to my knowledge no one know their reserves, so they may be able to whether the storm. James also hasn&#8217;t had as high of a profile since the heady days of the Elephant room and TGC leadership, so the target outside of Chicago, might not be as big as it was for Driscoll in 2014.</p>
<p>4. How long the board will continue to act in preservation of the leader vs. preservation of the organization. In MHC&#8217;s case, the board and the leader were pretty much the same thing. In the Willow Creek case, the board eventually made the shift but was slow in doing so, far too slow.</p>
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		<title>
		By: donjonesmd		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2019/01/16/james-macdonald-to-take-sabbatical-to-focus-on-peacemaking/#comment-99538</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[donjonesmd]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2019 12:50:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=33972#comment-99538</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Unfortunately, looks like another bungled response. If going to be a time of reflection, then stay out of preaching and take time to reflect. GO silent for awhile. Take time to give evidence to true deeds of repentance. I continue to be more and more disappointed with response of leaders of HBC and JMD. Just read one of the links to the Instagram. Naples leadership is excited about this?! The skeptic in me looks at that and thinks the Naples leadership has little voice in all of this. So he had already been planning to be in Naples, FL before taking his &quot;Sabbatical&quot;? If that time line is correct, that is just another spin on the whole thing -- so sad, especially when church leadership needs to be attempting to rebuild trust rather than spin events.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unfortunately, looks like another bungled response. If going to be a time of reflection, then stay out of preaching and take time to reflect. GO silent for awhile. Take time to give evidence to true deeds of repentance. I continue to be more and more disappointed with response of leaders of HBC and JMD. Just read one of the links to the Instagram. Naples leadership is excited about this?! The skeptic in me looks at that and thinks the Naples leadership has little voice in all of this. So he had already been planning to be in Naples, FL before taking his &#8220;Sabbatical&#8221;? If that time line is correct, that is just another spin on the whole thing &#8212; so sad, especially when church leadership needs to be attempting to rebuild trust rather than spin events.</p>
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		<title>
		By: donjonesmd		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2019/01/16/james-macdonald-to-take-sabbatical-to-focus-on-peacemaking/#comment-99539</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[donjonesmd]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2019 09:52:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=33972#comment-99539</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Is there any contact info for the HBC elders or leadership? Thanks]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is there any contact info for the HBC elders or leadership? Thanks</p>
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		<title>
		By: Priscilla Frye		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2019/01/16/james-macdonald-to-take-sabbatical-to-focus-on-peacemaking/#comment-99535</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Priscilla Frye]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2019 21:34:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=33972#comment-99535</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2019/01/16/james-macdonald-to-take-sabbatical-to-focus-on-peacemaking/#comment-99534&quot;&gt;Priscilla Frye&lt;/a&gt;.

Couldn&#039;t get the image upload previously]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2019/01/16/james-macdonald-to-take-sabbatical-to-focus-on-peacemaking/#comment-99534">Priscilla Frye</a>.</p>
<p>Couldn&#8217;t get the image upload previously</p>
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		<title>
		By: Priscilla Frye		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2019/01/16/james-macdonald-to-take-sabbatical-to-focus-on-peacemaking/#comment-99534</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Priscilla Frye]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2019 21:29:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=33972#comment-99534</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2019/01/16/james-macdonald-to-take-sabbatical-to-focus-on-peacemaking/#comment-99517&quot;&gt;Bene D&lt;/a&gt;.

Here&#039;s a screenshot of the IG Harvest Bible Chapel Naples post from Sept 2018 announcing James MacDonald would be in residence January to March of EACH YEAR!  Naples is by far the most wealthy area of Southwest Florida.

We have many branches of mega churches down here in Southwest Florida. I think they gravitate to our area vs the Tampa Bay area or Orlando because we have a lot more retirees here with some wealth put away and they are probably more gullible.

Edit:  I could not get the image upload, will try again later]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2019/01/16/james-macdonald-to-take-sabbatical-to-focus-on-peacemaking/#comment-99517">Bene D</a>.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a screenshot of the IG Harvest Bible Chapel Naples post from Sept 2018 announcing James MacDonald would be in residence January to March of EACH YEAR!  Naples is by far the most wealthy area of Southwest Florida.</p>
<p>We have many branches of mega churches down here in Southwest Florida. I think they gravitate to our area vs the Tampa Bay area or Orlando because we have a lot more retirees here with some wealth put away and they are probably more gullible.</p>
<p>Edit:  I could not get the image upload, will try again later</p>
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		<title>
		By: pc		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2019/01/16/james-macdonald-to-take-sabbatical-to-focus-on-peacemaking/#comment-99531</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[pc]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2019 14:41:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=33972#comment-99531</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2019/01/16/james-macdonald-to-take-sabbatical-to-focus-on-peacemaking/#comment-99524&quot;&gt;Living Liminal&lt;/a&gt;.

We don&#039;t know why people have complaints against us, nor what those complaints are, in the Mark Driscoll style.
https://youtu.be/dsGDCd1iLls]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2019/01/16/james-macdonald-to-take-sabbatical-to-focus-on-peacemaking/#comment-99524">Living Liminal</a>.</p>
<p>We don&#8217;t know why people have complaints against us, nor what those complaints are, in the Mark Driscoll style.<br />
<a href="https://youtu.be/dsGDCd1iLls" rel="nofollow ugc">https://youtu.be/dsGDCd1iLls</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Tacitus		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2019/01/16/james-macdonald-to-take-sabbatical-to-focus-on-peacemaking/#comment-99530</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tacitus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2019 14:16:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=33972#comment-99530</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2019/01/16/james-macdonald-to-take-sabbatical-to-focus-on-peacemaking/#comment-99529&quot;&gt;Tacitus&lt;/a&gt;.

Seems I&#039;m not the only cynic:

https://wonderingeagle.wordpress.com/2019/01/17/james-macdonald-is-taking-a-sabbatical-translation-he-is-getting-ready-to-engage-in-long-term-spiritual-abuse-in-naples-florida-and-john-secrest-will-be-his-first-target/]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2019/01/16/james-macdonald-to-take-sabbatical-to-focus-on-peacemaking/#comment-99529">Tacitus</a>.</p>
<p>Seems I&#8217;m not the only cynic:</p>
<p><a href="https://wonderingeagle.wordpress.com/2019/01/17/james-macdonald-is-taking-a-sabbatical-translation-he-is-getting-ready-to-engage-in-long-term-spiritual-abuse-in-naples-florida-and-john-secrest-will-be-his-first-target/" rel="nofollow ugc">https://wonderingeagle.wordpress.com/2019/01/17/james-macdonald-is-taking-a-sabbatical-translation-he-is-getting-ready-to-engage-in-long-term-spiritual-abuse-in-naples-florida-and-john-secrest-will-be-his-first-target/</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Tacitus		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2019/01/16/james-macdonald-to-take-sabbatical-to-focus-on-peacemaking/#comment-99529</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tacitus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2019 14:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=33972#comment-99529</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2019/01/16/james-macdonald-to-take-sabbatical-to-focus-on-peacemaking/#comment-99517&quot;&gt;Bene D&lt;/a&gt;.

Also, how convenient that the new location for HBC is also the first in prime snowbird country.

Is it too cynical of me to speculate on how that decision making went?

Vertical Church Committee Chair: We&#039;re here today to discuss the location for planting our next HBC church and campus. Any ideas?
James MacDonald: How about Naples, Florida
VCCC: Hmm. Naples, Florida... wait... what? That&#039;s over 1,000 miles away from any of our other locations.
JMD: I hear it&#039;s very nice there.
VCCC: I&#039;m sure it is, but what about that hub and spoke model you&#039;ve always preached about?
JMD: (shrug) Time for a new hub, then.
VCCC: But Naples is over 100 miles from anywhere. If we need a new hub in Florida, it should be in Orlando.
JMD: Nah, never liked Orlando. Too many tourists. Naples is the place. 
VCCC: (sigh) All right, as you wish. So we need to train up a new pastor.
JMD: Yeah -- usual process will be good, although...
VCCC: Yeah...?
JMD: If it would help, I can spend a few months every year down there, say, January to March, to help build up the congregation.
VCCC: In the winter...
JMD: Yeah.
VCCC: When it&#039;s 20 below in Chicago...
JMD: Sure.
VCCC: And 70 degrees in south Florida
JMD: Is it? I haven&#039;t checked.
VCCC: Hmm. We would need an extra house for you...
JMD: I&#039;ve already looked into that. Plenty of 5,000 sq ft properties available. Nothing too extravagant, of course.
VCCC: Of course... Country club? beach front?
JMD: (shrug) I&#039;m sure you&#039;ll come up with something suitable for my needs...
VCCC: Okay...
JMD: So that&#039;s settled. Now, any other business...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2019/01/16/james-macdonald-to-take-sabbatical-to-focus-on-peacemaking/#comment-99517">Bene D</a>.</p>
<p>Also, how convenient that the new location for HBC is also the first in prime snowbird country.</p>
<p>Is it too cynical of me to speculate on how that decision making went?</p>
<p>Vertical Church Committee Chair: We&#8217;re here today to discuss the location for planting our next HBC church and campus. Any ideas?<br />
James MacDonald: How about Naples, Florida<br />
VCCC: Hmm. Naples, Florida&#8230; wait&#8230; what? That&#8217;s over 1,000 miles away from any of our other locations.<br />
JMD: I hear it&#8217;s very nice there.<br />
VCCC: I&#8217;m sure it is, but what about that hub and spoke model you&#8217;ve always preached about?<br />
JMD: (shrug) Time for a new hub, then.<br />
VCCC: But Naples is over 100 miles from anywhere. If we need a new hub in Florida, it should be in Orlando.<br />
JMD: Nah, never liked Orlando. Too many tourists. Naples is the place.<br />
VCCC: (sigh) All right, as you wish. So we need to train up a new pastor.<br />
JMD: Yeah &#8212; usual process will be good, although&#8230;<br />
VCCC: Yeah&#8230;?<br />
JMD: If it would help, I can spend a few months every year down there, say, January to March, to help build up the congregation.<br />
VCCC: In the winter&#8230;<br />
JMD: Yeah.<br />
VCCC: When it&#8217;s 20 below in Chicago&#8230;<br />
JMD: Sure.<br />
VCCC: And 70 degrees in south Florida<br />
JMD: Is it? I haven&#8217;t checked.<br />
VCCC: Hmm. We would need an extra house for you&#8230;<br />
JMD: I&#8217;ve already looked into that. Plenty of 5,000 sq ft properties available. Nothing too extravagant, of course.<br />
VCCC: Of course&#8230; Country club? beach front?<br />
JMD: (shrug) I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;ll come up with something suitable for my needs&#8230;<br />
VCCC: Okay&#8230;<br />
JMD: So that&#8217;s settled. Now, any other business&#8230;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Joe Misek		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2019/01/16/james-macdonald-to-take-sabbatical-to-focus-on-peacemaking/#comment-99526</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Joe Misek]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2019 10:34:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=33972#comment-99526</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2019/01/16/james-macdonald-to-take-sabbatical-to-focus-on-peacemaking/#comment-99524&quot;&gt;Living Liminal&lt;/a&gt;.

If they have any integrity, they should need the injured, the bloggers, or Julie Roys right now to tell them again what to repent of. They have demonstrated a history of lying, dishonest use of finances, narrative manipulation, intimidating and crushing people who try to bring James&#039; sin to him or the church. Their statement yesterday could have included a repenting of those things, plus a promise to listen to people. 

Let&#039;s say I committed five wrongs. I own up to 3, deny one of them, and admit to a softened version of the fifth wrong, then I&#039;m not really repenting. I&#039;m still trying to save face. I still worry that, after the elder statement yesterday, that we could still get this scenario.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2019/01/16/james-macdonald-to-take-sabbatical-to-focus-on-peacemaking/#comment-99524">Living Liminal</a>.</p>
<p>If they have any integrity, they should need the injured, the bloggers, or Julie Roys right now to tell them again what to repent of. They have demonstrated a history of lying, dishonest use of finances, narrative manipulation, intimidating and crushing people who try to bring James&#8217; sin to him or the church. Their statement yesterday could have included a repenting of those things, plus a promise to listen to people. </p>
<p>Let&#8217;s say I committed five wrongs. I own up to 3, deny one of them, and admit to a softened version of the fifth wrong, then I&#8217;m not really repenting. I&#8217;m still trying to save face. I still worry that, after the elder statement yesterday, that we could still get this scenario.</p>
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		By: Living Liminal		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2019/01/16/james-macdonald-to-take-sabbatical-to-focus-on-peacemaking/#comment-99524</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Living Liminal]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2019 07:13:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=33972#comment-99524</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[If the leadership of Harvest were genuinely interested in making things right, wouldn&#039;t they be listening to those who have been injured and asking them what &lt;i&gt;they&lt;/i&gt; need, not imposing a &#039;peacemaking ministry&#039; of their own choice on those damaged by the church? The authors of The Elephant&#039;s Debt have made it perfectly clear what they consider necessary as the first step towards authentic reconciliation.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the leadership of Harvest were genuinely interested in making things right, wouldn&#8217;t they be listening to those who have been injured and asking them what <i>they</i> need, not imposing a &#8216;peacemaking ministry&#8217; of their own choice on those damaged by the church? The authors of The Elephant&#8217;s Debt have made it perfectly clear what they consider necessary as the first step towards authentic reconciliation.</p>
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