Spock avatar, suggesting I use logic… *fascinating*. ;P

I guess Jesus and John the Baptist both had big mouths then? I have publicly spoken out against KP Yohannan using my own name and I am on his donors list. He is a billionaire con-man and when things go south he might come looking for revenge. John the Baptist got beheaded for speaking out. Jesus got crucified. You still need to apply more logic and think through what you say before you say it…

Look, you could be right. I know that. But I have learned (the hard way) over time to attempt to be cautious about how I judge and criticize people. Jesus was God. I’m not. I’m the tax collector beating his chest and saying, “God, be merciful to me, a sinner.” That doesn’t mean I have no discernment or never take action, or that I am not conflicted about the same things others see. I get really mad about these things, just like anyone else.

From the time we first arrived at Harvest, the story we heard over and over from people who started with the church and grew with the church was that James MacDonald was a big personality and a handful, but growing and becoming more and more gracious and low key over time. We heard that from everyone from congregants who played basketball with him when the church was small to current pastors and elders. We had no reason to think otherwise, so when he got uppity and then had to apologize the next week, it seemed to fit. When the Stowells all left, it seemed odd, but I thought, “There is no way Joe Stowell would say absolutely nothing if there are any serious issues.”

The new mansion came after our time there. The MacDonalds were “downsizing” when we left, a development that we welcomed at the time and took as a good sign. Before that they owned a pretty great house, but in a housing market where my own tiny bungalow on a postage stamp lot sold for $400,000, a million dollar house is not that amazing. Having a pastor who is making a lot of money is something I was always considering and thinking through. I never really resolved it, but here are some things I looked at:

– Before we gave any money, I asked for a church budget. I did some research and observed that the church expenditures for salaries and other expenses were on par with if not lower than typical church budgets. Actually, the church seemed pretty lean and mean, and did not waste money on some of the traditional trappings of “normal” churches.

– As the church multiplied campuses, which were growing, one had to consider the costs of staffing each campus with a teaching pastor capable of accomplishing the same thing. With a handful of campuses that adds up. Those kinds of business-like considerations open up all types of other things to wrestle with, all of which are a process if you are encountering them for the first time.

– If I felt some objection about the church being too big or something, I felt I needed to be able to articulate what that meant. What is too big? Why? What am I seeing that I don’t like? What is this church doing better than small churches I have attended? What were some of the weaknesses of a small church that this model addresses?

– Some think Harvest was a cult of personality. We didn’t see that, and when we did it was discouraged. What I saw were a lot of people who were used to having one overworked pastor who had better be at the hospital when they were having surgery (or else incur the wrath of the “best givers” in the church) learning how to do mutual ministry instead of being served. There was a LOT of very good fruit in our immediate community of believers.

I know that people love the narrative that it takes “courage” to call out misbehavior/sin/etc. in leadership. Well, if you are a victim, it takes courage. If you are subordinate to or vulnerable to that leadership, it takes courage. But if you are not? It often doesn’t require any courage, just a big mouth. It’s entertainment for a lot of people, I suspect.

Well, I guess when Jesus called the religious leaders of His day things like “Vipers” or “Sons of the Devil” that in your book is neither helpful or right? To me it is obvious that this guy is a narcissistic jerk. People like this are worse than Judas. Judas had a conscience after stabbing Jesus in the back. Guys like this are just playing people like you for fools and laughing all the way to the bank inside his multi-million dollar mansion. Jesus is who He is and He says what He has said. Too many have decided to remake Jesus into their our own image. To some the image is much meaner than the real thing and to others He is imagined to be much nicer than the real thing. We are going to be shocked when He returns because He isn’t always what we want Him to be. He is coming back with a sword, but few really believe that in my observation.

I no longer go there. My wife and I relocated to another state a few years ago. I do think that we can be too hasty to jump ship when churches are in crisis, which IMO is a result of being spoiled by the number of available churches.

I actually have been involved in confronting leadership that has gone off the rails. It is no fun, but I definitely agree about the necessity.