disqus_gRgXGaIdXq wrote

Hmm …guess in the absence of a Twitter account we are not real people 😉

I am aware of many verses which say that when a person sins, they need to repent, and then they need to take appropriate redemptive and restorative action. I see nothing that suggests that when someone sins, everything they touch immediately turns to crap, and everything they ever accomplished that was of value for God is erased and means nothing. If that’s actually the case, it sucks to be me and you. I’m praying God will have his way with Harvest, no matter what that means. God doesn’t need James MacDonald or anyone else.

I know firsthand the good fruit from Harvest Bible Chapel and the sincere faith and work of many, many godly people there. It was the most socioeconomically diverse and generous church I have ever been a part of. People were on fire for the Word and for sincere Christian living, not for James MacDonald.

You are free to believe whatever you like. Perhaps you spent time at Harvest and know more than what you are told by others. I don’t know.

Actually, I googled Mr. Rahrer and looked for evidence of any kind that he was real. Always keep in mind that it’s trivially easy to create a false identity on the web, and that it’s a standard tactic for fraud in politics, business, and seduction.

Thanks, mon frere. I agree. And, of course, this does not remove from anyone the responsibility of sizing up information that comes to light and responding accordingly. Which many of our friends have done and are doing. It is agonizing, but necessary. God’s will be done, not mine.

Yep, there is no getting around squaring up to the current difficulty, whatever it takes.

I quite agree that Harvest was a good church, and it may still be one. I also agree that Pastor MacDonald is a big part of why it has been a good church. as you say, it is very important to realize that someone can be a willful sinner, or even an entirely false Christian, and still be a tool that God uses to advance His kingdom. Power corrupts, and a chief task of the elders is to make sure that a pastor with an aggressive personality has people around him who say No, not just for the church’s protection, but for the pastor’s.

Thank you, Mr. Rahrer. You are a real person, https://twitter.com/davidrahrer?lang=en . An important distinction, though: we need to challenge his integrity, but it is quite possible to meet my challenge, which you have done by vouching for him. I mention this because it is part of the big picture here: Christians’ reluctance to question the moral perfection of other people who call themselves Christians.

Let me intrude on this thread by saying that I think War-El is certainly speaking here in good faith. In a megachurch, one can be involved at a level where you have no idea of bad things happening at the top or near the top. They simply don’t reach you. Megachurches, especially multisite ones, can be like big towns. You know your neighborhood and can like it but don’t know anything about what is happening across town.

War-El has commented here for some time and I’m quite sure he isn’t a ringer for Harvest. He seems to be an honest sort. Whatever else you two may disagree on, I don’t think you need challenge his integrity.