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	<title>
	Comments on: Harvest Bible Chapel Treats Believers as Non-Believers; ECFA to Review Finances	</title>
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	<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/12/01/harvest-bible-chapel-treats-believers-as-non-believers-ecfa-to-review-finances/</link>
	<description>A [retired] college psychology professor&#039;s observations about public policy, mental health, sexual identity, and religious issues</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 14 Dec 2018 13:26:54 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: RG		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/12/01/harvest-bible-chapel-treats-believers-as-non-believers-ecfa-to-review-finances/#comment-99007</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[RG]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Dec 2018 13:26:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=33755#comment-99007</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Amy I don&#039;t know who you are but appreciate your statements. Here are some others that may be insightful: http://www.harvestbiblechapelfraud.com/]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amy I don&#8217;t know who you are but appreciate your statements. Here are some others that may be insightful: <a href="http://www.harvestbiblechapelfraud.com/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.harvestbiblechapelfraud.com/</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: A.Stacy		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/12/01/harvest-bible-chapel-treats-believers-as-non-believers-ecfa-to-review-finances/#comment-99004</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[A.Stacy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Dec 2018 11:55:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=33755#comment-99004</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Here is a great overview on everything in one place.

https://world.wng.org/2018/12/hard_times_at_harvest

Even if half these things were true... why is this guy a pastor anywhere, let alone employed working with people.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is a great overview on everything in one place.</p>
<p><a href="https://world.wng.org/2018/12/hard_times_at_harvest" rel="nofollow ugc">https://world.wng.org/2018/12/hard_times_at_harvest</a></p>
<p>Even if half these things were true&#8230; why is this guy a pastor anywhere, let alone employed working with people.</p>
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		<title>
		By: pc		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/12/01/harvest-bible-chapel-treats-believers-as-non-believers-ecfa-to-review-finances/#comment-98922</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[pc]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2018 23:06:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=33755#comment-98922</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;after sixteen months of reflection and consultation among Christian leaders outside our church family, we decided to move past self-examination and the many changes we had made and take action to protect our church family.&quot; 

1. So they admit to making many changes based on the criticisms of the &quot;attack bloggers?&quot;  Can&#039;t we infer the so called &quot;attack bloggers&quot; were right in at least some of their criticisms because you&#039;re making changes based on the criticisms?

2. &quot;consultation among Christian leaders outside our church family&quot; - Who? Mark Driscoll? Tullian Tchividjian? Ravi Zacharias? 

3.  &quot;protect our church family.&quot;  If your church is a family - it&#039;s dysfunctional.  Why are you disowning and suing your family once they leave or bring up concerns and criticisms?  Bad dad.  Reminds me of how Mark Driscoll abandoned his church &quot;family&quot; once they wanted him to be accountable and not just Lord and Master.  That&#039;s the expected result of a dysfunctional family when the abused and manipulated work up enough courage to confront the tyrant.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;after sixteen months of reflection and consultation among Christian leaders outside our church family, we decided to move past self-examination and the many changes we had made and take action to protect our church family.&#8221; </p>
<p>1. So they admit to making many changes based on the criticisms of the &#8220;attack bloggers?&#8221;  Can&#8217;t we infer the so called &#8220;attack bloggers&#8221; were right in at least some of their criticisms because you&#8217;re making changes based on the criticisms?</p>
<p>2. &#8220;consultation among Christian leaders outside our church family&#8221; &#8211; Who? Mark Driscoll? Tullian Tchividjian? Ravi Zacharias? </p>
<p>3.  &#8220;protect our church family.&#8221;  If your church is a family &#8211; it&#8217;s dysfunctional.  Why are you disowning and suing your family once they leave or bring up concerns and criticisms?  Bad dad.  Reminds me of how Mark Driscoll abandoned his church &#8220;family&#8221; once they wanted him to be accountable and not just Lord and Master.  That&#8217;s the expected result of a dysfunctional family when the abused and manipulated work up enough courage to confront the tyrant.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mr Jesperson		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/12/01/harvest-bible-chapel-treats-believers-as-non-believers-ecfa-to-review-finances/#comment-98921</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mr Jesperson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2018 17:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=33755#comment-98921</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The new Pharisees are back trying to silence opposition by branding those exposing corruption and evil as &quot;the devil&#039;s workers.&quot;  I get tired of all this unrepentant narcissism in action by self-proclaimed &quot;Christian&quot; leaders.  These guys are just jerks like the original bunch of Pharisees were.  Jesus was humble and He spoke out against religious corruption and their love of money.  These guys love the money, the spotlight and their inflamed egos.  At their age for many, like MacDonald, they are looking at the Judgment Seat of Jesus Christ coming for them fast.  Everyone dies and gets judged.  Even Presidents of the US cannot put it off for ever.  Their is actually nothing &quot;Christian&quot; about any of this that they say or do.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The new Pharisees are back trying to silence opposition by branding those exposing corruption and evil as &#8220;the devil&#8217;s workers.&#8221;  I get tired of all this unrepentant narcissism in action by self-proclaimed &#8220;Christian&#8221; leaders.  These guys are just jerks like the original bunch of Pharisees were.  Jesus was humble and He spoke out against religious corruption and their love of money.  These guys love the money, the spotlight and their inflamed egos.  At their age for many, like MacDonald, they are looking at the Judgment Seat of Jesus Christ coming for them fast.  Everyone dies and gets judged.  Even Presidents of the US cannot put it off for ever.  Their is actually nothing &#8220;Christian&#8221; about any of this that they say or do.</p>
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		<title>
		By: ken		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/12/01/harvest-bible-chapel-treats-believers-as-non-believers-ecfa-to-review-finances/#comment-98905</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ken]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2018 10:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=33755#comment-98905</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[it does more than that.  Since this is a civil suit about the Church&#039;s finances it opens up the books to the defendants AND can force MacDonald to answer questions, &lt;em&gt; under oath &lt;/em&gt; about those finances and other church practices.  I suspect part of the reason for the delay in filing the suit was for the accounts to go through the books and make sure there was nothing incriminating there 1st.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>it does more than that.  Since this is a civil suit about the Church&#8217;s finances it opens up the books to the defendants AND can force MacDonald to answer questions, <em> under oath </em> about those finances and other church practices.  I suspect part of the reason for the delay in filing the suit was for the accounts to go through the books and make sure there was nothing incriminating there 1st.</p>
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		<title>
		By: MetalYoshi		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/12/01/harvest-bible-chapel-treats-believers-as-non-believers-ecfa-to-review-finances/#comment-98887</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MetalYoshi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2018 16:03:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=33755#comment-98887</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m really glad you are writing about this story. I think it&#039;s really interesting and won&#039;t end well for HBC.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m really glad you are writing about this story. I think it&#8217;s really interesting and won&#8217;t end well for HBC.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Amy Moore		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/12/01/harvest-bible-chapel-treats-believers-as-non-believers-ecfa-to-review-finances/#comment-98882</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Amy Moore]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2018 00:49:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=33755#comment-98882</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[This meeting with ECFA could be quite significant. GFA USA tried a similar tactic. Now that Julie Roys has brought issues to ECFA&#039;s attention, Van Drunen and Busby cannot simply succumb to a charm offensive. They risk their own reputation and their entire business model to endorse organizations who do not fulfill their minimum requirements. When those orgs further engage in unChristlike behavior, ECFA needs to ask themselves if sticking their necks out for a hothead who loves concealment, like James MacDonald, is worth the $9K they get from them in fees. 

Thanks to this lawsuit, people are paying attention to this story. Those same people will be watching ECFA&#039;s response. ECFA is smart enough to know that Roys&#039; World article will go public at some point, highlighting how HBC is likely not in compliance with ECFA standards.  HBC assumes they are bullet-proof because they use Capin Crouse as their auditors. They also replaced their last CFO Fred Adams (who resigned Dec 2017) with Jeff Sharda, a Partner at Capin Crouse, to help keep those clean opinions coming. 



The reality is that under Capin Crouse, HBC&#039;s internal controls were so lax that an IT guy was able to steal at least $270K from them and likely far more since a fraud audit is just now underway which will extend the scope of review beyond the one year that yielded the $270K in theft. The law firm hired to oversee this isn&#039;t using Capin Crouse. That doesn&#039;t instill a lot of confidence in Capin Crouse or HBC. 



Bland Garvey, likewise, bestowed clean opinions on GFA for almost a decade. After Warren Throckmorton started covering the problems at GFA, Bland Garvey wisely disengaged GFA and hired one of the top litigators in DFW to represent them. 



ECFA only stays in business for as long as their seal of approval stands for something. I hope they think long and hard about this.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This meeting with ECFA could be quite significant. GFA USA tried a similar tactic. Now that Julie Roys has brought issues to ECFA&#8217;s attention, Van Drunen and Busby cannot simply succumb to a charm offensive. They risk their own reputation and their entire business model to endorse organizations who do not fulfill their minimum requirements. When those orgs further engage in unChristlike behavior, ECFA needs to ask themselves if sticking their necks out for a hothead who loves concealment, like James MacDonald, is worth the $9K they get from them in fees. </p>
<p>Thanks to this lawsuit, people are paying attention to this story. Those same people will be watching ECFA&#8217;s response. ECFA is smart enough to know that Roys&#8217; World article will go public at some point, highlighting how HBC is likely not in compliance with ECFA standards.  HBC assumes they are bullet-proof because they use Capin Crouse as their auditors. They also replaced their last CFO Fred Adams (who resigned Dec 2017) with Jeff Sharda, a Partner at Capin Crouse, to help keep those clean opinions coming. </p>
<p>The reality is that under Capin Crouse, HBC&#8217;s internal controls were so lax that an IT guy was able to steal at least $270K from them and likely far more since a fraud audit is just now underway which will extend the scope of review beyond the one year that yielded the $270K in theft. The law firm hired to oversee this isn&#8217;t using Capin Crouse. That doesn&#8217;t instill a lot of confidence in Capin Crouse or HBC. </p>
<p>Bland Garvey, likewise, bestowed clean opinions on GFA for almost a decade. After Warren Throckmorton started covering the problems at GFA, Bland Garvey wisely disengaged GFA and hired one of the top litigators in DFW to represent them. </p>
<p>ECFA only stays in business for as long as their seal of approval stands for something. I hope they think long and hard about this.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Amy Moore		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/12/01/harvest-bible-chapel-treats-believers-as-non-believers-ecfa-to-review-finances/#comment-98881</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Amy Moore]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Dec 2018 19:44:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=33755#comment-98881</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[This meeting with ECFA could be quite significant. GFA USA tried a similar tactic. Now that Julie Roys has brought issues to ECFA&#039;s attention, Van Drunen and Busby cannot simply succumb to a charm offensive. They risk their own reputation and their entire business model to endorse organizations who do not fulfill their minimum requirements. When those orgs further engage in unChristlike behavior, ECFA needs to ask themselves if sticking their necks out for a hothead who loves concealment, like James MacDonald, is worth the $9K they get from them in fees. 

Thanks to this lawsuit, people are paying attention to this story. Those same people will be watching ECFA&#039;s response. ECFA is smart enough to know that Roys&#039; World article will go public at some point, highlighting how HBC is likely not in compliance with ECFA standards.  HBC assumes they are bullet-proof because they use Capin Crouse as their auditors. They also replaced their last CFO Fred Adams (who resigned Dec 2017) with Jeff Sharda, a Partner at Capin Crouse, to help keep those clean opinions coming. 



The reality is that under Capin Crouse, HBC&#039;s internal controls were so lax that an IT guy was able to steal at least $270K from them and likely far more since a fraud audit is just now underway which will extend the scope of review beyond the one year that yielded the $270K in theft. The law firm hired to oversee this isn&#039;t using Capin Crouse. That doesn&#039;t instill a lot of confidence in Capin Crouse or HBC. 



Bland Garvey, likewise, bestowed clean opinions on GFA for almost a decade. After Warren Throckmorton started covering the problems at GFA, Bland Garvey wisely disengaged GFA and hired one of the top litigators in DFW to represent them. 



ECFA only stays in business for as long as their seal of approval stands for something. I hope they think long and hard about this.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This meeting with ECFA could be quite significant. GFA USA tried a similar tactic. Now that Julie Roys has brought issues to ECFA&#8217;s attention, Van Drunen and Busby cannot simply succumb to a charm offensive. They risk their own reputation and their entire business model to endorse organizations who do not fulfill their minimum requirements. When those orgs further engage in unChristlike behavior, ECFA needs to ask themselves if sticking their necks out for a hothead who loves concealment, like James MacDonald, is worth the $9K they get from them in fees. </p>
<p>Thanks to this lawsuit, people are paying attention to this story. Those same people will be watching ECFA&#8217;s response. ECFA is smart enough to know that Roys&#8217; World article will go public at some point, highlighting how HBC is likely not in compliance with ECFA standards.  HBC assumes they are bullet-proof because they use Capin Crouse as their auditors. They also replaced their last CFO Fred Adams (who resigned Dec 2017) with Jeff Sharda, a Partner at Capin Crouse, to help keep those clean opinions coming. </p>
<p>The reality is that under Capin Crouse, HBC&#8217;s internal controls were so lax that an IT guy was able to steal at least $270K from them and likely far more since a fraud audit is just now underway which will extend the scope of review beyond the one year that yielded the $270K in theft. The law firm hired to oversee this isn&#8217;t using Capin Crouse. That doesn&#8217;t instill a lot of confidence in Capin Crouse or HBC. </p>
<p>Bland Garvey, likewise, bestowed clean opinions on GFA for almost a decade. After Warren Throckmorton started covering the problems at GFA, Bland Garvey wisely disengaged GFA and hired one of the top litigators in DFW to represent them. </p>
<p>ECFA only stays in business for as long as their seal of approval stands for something. I hope they think long and hard about this.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Warren Throckmorton		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/12/01/harvest-bible-chapel-treats-believers-as-non-believers-ecfa-to-review-finances/#comment-98880</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Warren Throckmorton]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Dec 2018 17:40:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=33755#comment-98880</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I think that is what has already happened and will be more true as time goes on.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that is what has already happened and will be more true as time goes on.</p>
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