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	<title>
	Comments on: There&#8217;s More Than One Side to Every Mark Driscoll Story	</title>
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	<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/09/20/theres-more-than-one-side-to-every-mark-driscoll-story/</link>
	<description>A [retired] college psychology professor&#039;s observations about public policy, mental health, sexual identity, and religious issues</description>
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		<title>
		By: Geoffrey Di Giorgio		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/09/20/theres-more-than-one-side-to-every-mark-driscoll-story/#comment-104232</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Geoffrey Di Giorgio]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Oct 2019 20:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=33416#comment-104232</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/09/20/theres-more-than-one-side-to-every-mark-driscoll-story/#comment-98128&quot;&gt;DoctorDJ&lt;/a&gt;.

See my comment above. Be filled with God’s grace, be joyful in it, and extend that grace to Mr.Driscoll.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/09/20/theres-more-than-one-side-to-every-mark-driscoll-story/#comment-98128">DoctorDJ</a>.</p>
<p>See my comment above. Be filled with God’s grace, be joyful in it, and extend that grace to Mr.Driscoll.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Geoffrey Di Giorgio		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/09/20/theres-more-than-one-side-to-every-mark-driscoll-story/#comment-104236</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Geoffrey Di Giorgio]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Oct 2019 17:19:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=33416#comment-104236</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/09/20/theres-more-than-one-side-to-every-mark-driscoll-story/#comment-104233&quot;&gt;DoctorDJ&lt;/a&gt;.

How unfortunate. God’s peace to you.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/09/20/theres-more-than-one-side-to-every-mark-driscoll-story/#comment-104233">DoctorDJ</a>.</p>
<p>How unfortunate. God’s peace to you.</p>
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		<title>
		By: DoctorDJ		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/09/20/theres-more-than-one-side-to-every-mark-driscoll-story/#comment-104233</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DoctorDJ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Oct 2019 16:15:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=33416#comment-104233</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/09/20/theres-more-than-one-side-to-every-mark-driscoll-story/#comment-104232&quot;&gt;Geoffrey Di Giorgio&lt;/a&gt;.

Thank you, no.
Gotta call a greedy con man when I sees him, especially if his con is in the field of religion.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/09/20/theres-more-than-one-side-to-every-mark-driscoll-story/#comment-104232">Geoffrey Di Giorgio</a>.</p>
<p>Thank you, no.<br />
Gotta call a greedy con man when I sees him, especially if his con is in the field of religion.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Geoffrey Di Giorgio		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/09/20/theres-more-than-one-side-to-every-mark-driscoll-story/#comment-104231</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Geoffrey Di Giorgio]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Oct 2019 15:41:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=33416#comment-104231</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[From what I remember he tearfully apologized, stepped down from his position, and left ministry for three years, while still preaching because he has a family to support. I’m sorry, but it seems as though you’re all trying to judge how he went about repenting, while completely brushing off the fact that he has indeed repented. This isn’t even a position God would take and you therefore put yourself in God’s judgement seat, and welp, this is pretty much wrong thinking; thank God it’s a sin that Jesus died for. I praise God for his grace on you and on me. When a person apologizes and repents, you forgive, because God forgives. It’s quite scary that one of the few times our gracious Savior hurled insult at someone, it was at people who were being judgmental. I believe “Brood of vipers” was the phrase. Again, I’m glad he loves you and that you have his grace, please extend this to Mark Driscoll.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From what I remember he tearfully apologized, stepped down from his position, and left ministry for three years, while still preaching because he has a family to support. I’m sorry, but it seems as though you’re all trying to judge how he went about repenting, while completely brushing off the fact that he has indeed repented. This isn’t even a position God would take and you therefore put yourself in God’s judgement seat, and welp, this is pretty much wrong thinking; thank God it’s a sin that Jesus died for. I praise God for his grace on you and on me. When a person apologizes and repents, you forgive, because God forgives. It’s quite scary that one of the few times our gracious Savior hurled insult at someone, it was at people who were being judgmental. I believe “Brood of vipers” was the phrase. Again, I’m glad he loves you and that you have his grace, please extend this to Mark Driscoll.</p>
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		<title>
		By: David Rahrer		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/09/20/theres-more-than-one-side-to-every-mark-driscoll-story/#comment-98173</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Rahrer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Sep 2018 15:00:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=33416#comment-98173</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/09/20/theres-more-than-one-side-to-every-mark-driscoll-story/#comment-98170&quot;&gt;thatotherjean&lt;/a&gt;.

One of the Bible&#039;s greatest weaknesses is that it can &quot;legitimately&quot; be used to sustain multiple and opposing courses of action on the same issue.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/09/20/theres-more-than-one-side-to-every-mark-driscoll-story/#comment-98170">thatotherjean</a>.</p>
<p>One of the Bible&#8217;s greatest weaknesses is that it can &#8220;legitimately&#8221; be used to sustain multiple and opposing courses of action on the same issue.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Luke Breuer		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/09/20/theres-more-than-one-side-to-every-mark-driscoll-story/#comment-98171</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Luke Breuer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Sep 2018 12:30:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=33416#comment-98171</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/09/20/theres-more-than-one-side-to-every-mark-driscoll-story/#comment-98170&quot;&gt;thatotherjean&lt;/a&gt;.

There are several bits in the NT which point Christians to take special care of their own. I surmise that one of the reasons for this is that one can be more merciful and more gracious to, and require less restitution from, precisely those people who wish to partake in this … &quot;socialism experiment&quot;. One way I think of it is via free trade &#038; the division of labor: maybe the person most suited to fix some bit of damage is not the one who caused it. Well, if we all do our part then we can fix what was broken and heal what was hurt—to the extent possible this side of the eschaton—with less total expenditure of time &#038; energy.

Now, I should acknowledge that @tacitusq:disqus was addressing a very specific population with the clause that set me off:

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;https://disqus.com/home/discussion/wthrockmorton-com/theres_more_than_one_side_to_every_mark_driscoll_story/#comment-4106357076&quot;&gt;T&lt;/a&gt;: If there are examples of prominent conservative evangelical leaders truly repenting and spending the rest of their lives making up for their transgressions, then I haven&#039;t heard of them.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I suspect that most who are &quot;prominent conservative evangelical leaders&quot; have many, many resources. And so the following scripture applies:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Peter said, “Lord, are you telling this parable for us or for all?” And the Lord said, “Who then is the faithful and wise manager, whom his master will set over his household, to give them their portion of food at the proper time? Blessed is that servant whom his master will find so doing when he comes. Truly, I say to you, he will set him over all his possessions. But if that servant says to himself, ‘My master is delayed in coming,’ and begins to beat the male and female servants, and to eat and drink and get drunk, the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces and put him with the unfaithful. And that servant who knew his master’s will but did not get ready or act according to his will, will receive a severe beating. But the one who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, will receive a light beating. &lt;b&gt;Everyone to whom much was given, of him much will be required, and from him to whom they entrusted much, they will demand the more.&lt;/b&gt; (Luke 12:41–48)&lt;/blockquote&gt;

+

&lt;blockquote&gt;Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness. (James 3:1)&lt;/blockquote&gt;

However, the above must be balanced with the following:

&lt;blockquote&gt;You shall do no injustice in court. You shall not be partial to the poor or defer to the great, but in righteousness shall you judge your neighbor. (Leviticus 19:15)&lt;/blockquote&gt;

So, I think it is fair to say that the parable of the unforgiving servant must apply to leaders as well as followers. It must really, really apply.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/09/20/theres-more-than-one-side-to-every-mark-driscoll-story/#comment-98170">thatotherjean</a>.</p>
<p>There are several bits in the NT which point Christians to take special care of their own. I surmise that one of the reasons for this is that one can be more merciful and more gracious to, and require less restitution from, precisely those people who wish to partake in this … &#8220;socialism experiment&#8221;. One way I think of it is via free trade &amp; the division of labor: maybe the person most suited to fix some bit of damage is not the one who caused it. Well, if we all do our part then we can fix what was broken and heal what was hurt—to the extent possible this side of the eschaton—with less total expenditure of time &amp; energy.</p>
<p>Now, I should acknowledge that @tacitusq:disqus was addressing a very specific population with the clause that set me off:</p>
<blockquote><p><a href="https://disqus.com/home/discussion/wthrockmorton-com/theres_more_than_one_side_to_every_mark_driscoll_story/#comment-4106357076">T</a>: If there are examples of prominent conservative evangelical leaders truly repenting and spending the rest of their lives making up for their transgressions, then I haven&#8217;t heard of them.</p></blockquote>
<p>I suspect that most who are &#8220;prominent conservative evangelical leaders&#8221; have many, many resources. And so the following scripture applies:</p>
<blockquote><p>Peter said, “Lord, are you telling this parable for us or for all?” And the Lord said, “Who then is the faithful and wise manager, whom his master will set over his household, to give them their portion of food at the proper time? Blessed is that servant whom his master will find so doing when he comes. Truly, I say to you, he will set him over all his possessions. But if that servant says to himself, ‘My master is delayed in coming,’ and begins to beat the male and female servants, and to eat and drink and get drunk, the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces and put him with the unfaithful. And that servant who knew his master’s will but did not get ready or act according to his will, will receive a severe beating. But the one who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, will receive a light beating. <b>Everyone to whom much was given, of him much will be required, and from him to whom they entrusted much, they will demand the more.</b> (Luke 12:41–48)</p></blockquote>
<p>+</p>
<blockquote><p>Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness. (James 3:1)</p></blockquote>
<p>However, the above must be balanced with the following:</p>
<blockquote><p>You shall do no injustice in court. You shall not be partial to the poor or defer to the great, but in righteousness shall you judge your neighbor. (Leviticus 19:15)</p></blockquote>
<p>So, I think it is fair to say that the parable of the unforgiving servant must apply to leaders as well as followers. It must really, really apply.</p>
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		<title>
		By: thatotherjean		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/09/20/theres-more-than-one-side-to-every-mark-driscoll-story/#comment-98170</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[thatotherjean]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Sep 2018 11:14:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=33416#comment-98170</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/09/20/theres-more-than-one-side-to-every-mark-driscoll-story/#comment-98169&quot;&gt;Luke Breuer&lt;/a&gt;.

Oh, I have no trouble with helping a person who has done a serious wrong, but who does not have the resources to right that wrong as much as it can be righted,  Are people not supposed to help one another, Christian or not?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/09/20/theres-more-than-one-side-to-every-mark-driscoll-story/#comment-98169">Luke Breuer</a>.</p>
<p>Oh, I have no trouble with helping a person who has done a serious wrong, but who does not have the resources to right that wrong as much as it can be righted,  Are people not supposed to help one another, Christian or not?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Luke Breuer		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/09/20/theres-more-than-one-side-to-every-mark-driscoll-story/#comment-98169</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Luke Breuer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Sep 2018 10:50:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=33416#comment-98169</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/09/20/theres-more-than-one-side-to-every-mark-driscoll-story/#comment-98167&quot;&gt;thatotherjean&lt;/a&gt;.

In my experience, it would generally be much more effective for the friends of the harmed person to &quot;DEMAND restitution&quot; and for the friend to remain silent. But this would skirt the spirit of the parable. Does God require that we fix what we broke, to the best of our ability, up to and including &lt;a href=&quot;https://disqus.com/home/discussion/wthrockmorton-com/theres_more_than_one_side_to_every_mark_driscoll_story/#comment-4106357076&quot;&gt;&quot;spending the rest of [our] lives making up for [our] transgressions&quot;&lt;/a&gt;? Of course not.

A question I asked one of the signers of the Dallas Statement, @eddingess:disqus, is relevant:

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;https://americanvision.org/16796/response-to-the-statement-on-social-justice-and-the-gospel/#comment-4088281007&quot;&gt;LB&lt;/a&gt;: &lt;b&gt;(2)&lt;/b&gt; During the time when there is injustice and unrighteousness, are some Christians going to be called to bear the consequences much more heavily than others? Say, blacks suffering much more than whites?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Christians can, in effect, socialize the consequences of sin and the fixing of the damage while absorbing the rest. Christians can also be incredibly evil and concentrate the consequences of sin on an minority. If the person who caused the wrong grew up in a really terrible situation and is trying but often failing, is it the best use of Christianity&#039;s resources to require that person to pay back everything [s]he can? I doubt it, and I find it incredibly questionable if and when a Christian who has had a much nicer life says such things. (I don&#039;t claim you have, but you haven&#039;t warded off this possibility, either.)

Said another way, I think God really does want us to participate in reconciling creation to him; I&#039;m very much inclined toward N.T. Wright&#039;s message in &lt;i&gt;After You Believe&lt;/i&gt;. But I don&#039;t think that will possibly happen via a hyper-individualistic accounting of transgression and a hyper-individualist restitution. That is utterly antithetical to the message of Jesus. How then will wrongs be righted, how will damage be repaired and hurt, healed? I say: by reversing Cain&#039;s stance of, &quot;Am I my brother&#039;s keeper?&quot; But not via a gross violation of Mt 20:20–28 and 13:8–12.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/09/20/theres-more-than-one-side-to-every-mark-driscoll-story/#comment-98167">thatotherjean</a>.</p>
<p>In my experience, it would generally be much more effective for the friends of the harmed person to &#8220;DEMAND restitution&#8221; and for the friend to remain silent. But this would skirt the spirit of the parable. Does God require that we fix what we broke, to the best of our ability, up to and including <a href="https://disqus.com/home/discussion/wthrockmorton-com/theres_more_than_one_side_to_every_mark_driscoll_story/#comment-4106357076">&#8220;spending the rest of [our] lives making up for [our] transgressions&#8221;</a>? Of course not.</p>
<p>A question I asked one of the signers of the Dallas Statement, @eddingess:disqus, is relevant:</p>
<blockquote><p><a href="https://americanvision.org/16796/response-to-the-statement-on-social-justice-and-the-gospel/#comment-4088281007">LB</a>: <b>(2)</b> During the time when there is injustice and unrighteousness, are some Christians going to be called to bear the consequences much more heavily than others? Say, blacks suffering much more than whites?</p></blockquote>
<p>Christians can, in effect, socialize the consequences of sin and the fixing of the damage while absorbing the rest. Christians can also be incredibly evil and concentrate the consequences of sin on an minority. If the person who caused the wrong grew up in a really terrible situation and is trying but often failing, is it the best use of Christianity&#8217;s resources to require that person to pay back everything [s]he can? I doubt it, and I find it incredibly questionable if and when a Christian who has had a much nicer life says such things. (I don&#8217;t claim you have, but you haven&#8217;t warded off this possibility, either.)</p>
<p>Said another way, I think God really does want us to participate in reconciling creation to him; I&#8217;m very much inclined toward N.T. Wright&#8217;s message in <i>After You Believe</i>. But I don&#8217;t think that will possibly happen via a hyper-individualistic accounting of transgression and a hyper-individualist restitution. That is utterly antithetical to the message of Jesus. How then will wrongs be righted, how will damage be repaired and hurt, healed? I say: by reversing Cain&#8217;s stance of, &#8220;Am I my brother&#8217;s keeper?&#8221; But not via a gross violation of Mt 20:20–28 and 13:8–12.</p>
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		By: thatotherjean		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/09/20/theres-more-than-one-side-to-every-mark-driscoll-story/#comment-98167</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[thatotherjean]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Sep 2018 03:43:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=33416#comment-98167</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/09/20/theres-more-than-one-side-to-every-mark-driscoll-story/#comment-98164&quot;&gt;Luke Breuer&lt;/a&gt;.

I don&#039;t think it&#039;s right for someone who has been wronged to DEMAND restitution, but I still think that the person who has done wrong to someone should do what he can to set things right.  If it&#039;s not possible (and it usually isn&#039;t, after all)  I would hope that the wronged person would forgive what cannot be made whole.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/09/20/theres-more-than-one-side-to-every-mark-driscoll-story/#comment-98164">Luke Breuer</a>.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s right for someone who has been wronged to DEMAND restitution, but I still think that the person who has done wrong to someone should do what he can to set things right.  If it&#8217;s not possible (and it usually isn&#8217;t, after all)  I would hope that the wronged person would forgive what cannot be made whole.</p>
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		By: Luke Breuer		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/09/20/theres-more-than-one-side-to-every-mark-driscoll-story/#comment-98164</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Luke Breuer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2018 23:55:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=33416#comment-98164</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/09/20/theres-more-than-one-side-to-every-mark-driscoll-story/#comment-98109&quot;&gt;thatotherjean&lt;/a&gt;.

I do think restitution is important. But there is also this:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Then his master summoned him and said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. And should not you have had mercy on your fellow servant, as I had mercy on you?’ And in anger his master delivered him to the jailers, until he should pay all his debt. So also my heavenly Father will do to every one of you, if you do not forgive your brother from your heart.” (Matthew 18:32–35)&lt;/blockquote&gt;

How do you understand that parable?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/09/20/theres-more-than-one-side-to-every-mark-driscoll-story/#comment-98109">thatotherjean</a>.</p>
<p>I do think restitution is important. But there is also this:</p>
<blockquote><p>Then his master summoned him and said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. And should not you have had mercy on your fellow servant, as I had mercy on you?’ And in anger his master delivered him to the jailers, until he should pay all his debt. So also my heavenly Father will do to every one of you, if you do not forgive your brother from your heart.” (Matthew 18:32–35)</p></blockquote>
<p>How do you understand that parable?</p>
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