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	Comments on: Researching Hidden Populations: The Littman Study and Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria	</title>
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	<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/09/01/researching-hidden-populations-the-littman-study-and-rapid-onset-gender-dysphoria/</link>
	<description>A [retired] college psychology professor&#039;s observations about public policy, mental health, sexual identity, and religious issues</description>
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		<title>
		By: ryu238		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/09/01/researching-hidden-populations-the-littman-study-and-rapid-onset-gender-dysphoria/#comment-102776</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ryu238]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jul 2019 01:15:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=33264#comment-102776</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/09/01/researching-hidden-populations-the-littman-study-and-rapid-onset-gender-dysphoria/#comment-97769&quot;&gt;Dolly&lt;/a&gt;.

Oh really? http://dirtywhiteboi67.blogspot.com/2016/09/maria-catt-aka-carey-callahan.html]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/09/01/researching-hidden-populations-the-littman-study-and-rapid-onset-gender-dysphoria/#comment-97769">Dolly</a>.</p>
<p>Oh really? <a href="http://dirtywhiteboi67.blogspot.com/2016/09/maria-catt-aka-carey-callahan.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://dirtywhiteboi67.blogspot.com/2016/09/maria-catt-aka-carey-callahan.html</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Zoe_Brain		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/09/01/researching-hidden-populations-the-littman-study-and-rapid-onset-gender-dysphoria/#comment-97826</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zoe_Brain]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Sep 2018 12:48:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=33264#comment-97826</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[How many of those responding to the survey have been verified to be parents of children, trans or otherwise?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How many of those responding to the survey have been verified to be parents of children, trans or otherwise?</p>
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		<title>
		By: David Rahrer		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/09/01/researching-hidden-populations-the-littman-study-and-rapid-onset-gender-dysphoria/#comment-97788</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Rahrer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2018 13:26:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=33264#comment-97788</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/09/01/researching-hidden-populations-the-littman-study-and-rapid-onset-gender-dysphoria/#comment-97744&quot;&gt;Dolly&lt;/a&gt;.

&lt;blockquote&gt;In 2016, a researcher wanted to gather some initial data on women who detransitioned (back to being women). In two weeks of a casual online search he found more than 200 women who filled out his very lengthy questionnaire filled with open-ended questions.&lt;/blockquote&gt;I would also like to see the source of this data. The only references I know of all stem from one blogger&#039;s online &quot;survey.&quot; Such sweeping assumptions can&#039;t be based on something like that, particularly when you make the alleged plethora of &quot;detransitioners&quot; a linchpin of your argument (&quot;He knew they existed but was surprised at how many were out there&quot;). I&#039;ll wait for your cite to consider further.
&lt;blockquote&gt;By the way, unlike sexual orientation, which is innate, the large number of detransitioners, and the large number of kids who live the first 12 or 15 years of their lives seemingly content to be their natal sex, demonstrates that &quot;gender identity&quot; is NOT innate and therefore doesn&#039;t necessarily need drastic &quot;treatments.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;You are conflating issues and making statements which you can&#039;t possibly support. If we want to deal with facts, and not our own biases, we have to stick to the data and early theories based on that. You can&#039;t mix in the possible issue of ROGD with durable adult GD and then make bold statements of fact like &quot;gender identity is not innate.&quot; 

You are, in fact, using exactly the sort of arguments once employed by anti-gay organizations to combat recognizing sexual orientation awareness in teens. There are differences, yes. We are, in one instance, talking about the possibility of medical and surgical intervention to treat the discordance. The overwhelming results of the data (an expansive, voluminous number of cases) so far would indicate that, for those who have undergone this treatment, it has been successful at giving them happier, healthier lives - they do not regret the move. 

In response to something you said in an earlier comment, I will agree that this data likely did not cover those whose transition began as a minor. Someone should check to make sure, but I don&#039;t know that the practice has been around long enough to have been statistically significant to the results of that study. Again, this is a mixture of issues, i.e. consistent standards and qualifications for adult transition, more data on the propriety of early transition and investigation of whatever it is that is being described as ROGD. It should not be a general condemnation of GRS as a treatment.

This sort of overreaction in the direction of one&#039;s own biases is exactly why Littman&#039;s study has been so received. If we were dealing only with data and scientific study, there would be far less panic and fear that one will be hit over the head with misinterpretations and intentional distortions. Such apprehension often results in quick, pre-emptive strikes and sometimes truth is a casualty. In this respect the &quot;T&quot; issue is exactly like the LGB that come before it.

For the sake of informed, reasoned debate, please cite your source before arguing further based on that information. Other participants need to know what they are discussing.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/09/01/researching-hidden-populations-the-littman-study-and-rapid-onset-gender-dysphoria/#comment-97744">Dolly</a>.</p>
<blockquote><p>In 2016, a researcher wanted to gather some initial data on women who detransitioned (back to being women). In two weeks of a casual online search he found more than 200 women who filled out his very lengthy questionnaire filled with open-ended questions.</p></blockquote>
<p>I would also like to see the source of this data. The only references I know of all stem from one blogger&#8217;s online &#8220;survey.&#8221; Such sweeping assumptions can&#8217;t be based on something like that, particularly when you make the alleged plethora of &#8220;detransitioners&#8221; a linchpin of your argument (&#8220;He knew they existed but was surprised at how many were out there&#8221;). I&#8217;ll wait for your cite to consider further.</p>
<blockquote><p>By the way, unlike sexual orientation, which is innate, the large number of detransitioners, and the large number of kids who live the first 12 or 15 years of their lives seemingly content to be their natal sex, demonstrates that &#8220;gender identity&#8221; is NOT innate and therefore doesn&#8217;t necessarily need drastic &#8220;treatments.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>You are conflating issues and making statements which you can&#8217;t possibly support. If we want to deal with facts, and not our own biases, we have to stick to the data and early theories based on that. You can&#8217;t mix in the possible issue of ROGD with durable adult GD and then make bold statements of fact like &#8220;gender identity is not innate.&#8221; </p>
<p>You are, in fact, using exactly the sort of arguments once employed by anti-gay organizations to combat recognizing sexual orientation awareness in teens. There are differences, yes. We are, in one instance, talking about the possibility of medical and surgical intervention to treat the discordance. The overwhelming results of the data (an expansive, voluminous number of cases) so far would indicate that, for those who have undergone this treatment, it has been successful at giving them happier, healthier lives &#8211; they do not regret the move. </p>
<p>In response to something you said in an earlier comment, I will agree that this data likely did not cover those whose transition began as a minor. Someone should check to make sure, but I don&#8217;t know that the practice has been around long enough to have been statistically significant to the results of that study. Again, this is a mixture of issues, i.e. consistent standards and qualifications for adult transition, more data on the propriety of early transition and investigation of whatever it is that is being described as ROGD. It should not be a general condemnation of GRS as a treatment.</p>
<p>This sort of overreaction in the direction of one&#8217;s own biases is exactly why Littman&#8217;s study has been so received. If we were dealing only with data and scientific study, there would be far less panic and fear that one will be hit over the head with misinterpretations and intentional distortions. Such apprehension often results in quick, pre-emptive strikes and sometimes truth is a casualty. In this respect the &#8220;T&#8221; issue is exactly like the LGB that come before it.</p>
<p>For the sake of informed, reasoned debate, please cite your source before arguing further based on that information. Other participants need to know what they are discussing.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dolly		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/09/01/researching-hidden-populations-the-littman-study-and-rapid-onset-gender-dysphoria/#comment-97765</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dolly]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2018 02:29:14 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/09/01/researching-hidden-populations-the-littman-study-and-rapid-onset-gender-dysphoria/#comment-97763&quot;&gt;ken&lt;/a&gt;.

http://guideonragingstars.tumblr.com/post/149877706175/female-detransition-and-reidentification-survey]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/09/01/researching-hidden-populations-the-littman-study-and-rapid-onset-gender-dysphoria/#comment-97763">ken</a>.</p>
<p><a href="http://guideonragingstars.tumblr.com/post/149877706175/female-detransition-and-reidentification-survey" rel="nofollow ugc">http://guideonragingstars.tumblr.com/post/149877706175/female-detransition-and-reidentification-survey</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Dolly		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/09/01/researching-hidden-populations-the-littman-study-and-rapid-onset-gender-dysphoria/#comment-97769</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dolly]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Sep 2018 23:00:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=33264#comment-97769</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/09/01/researching-hidden-populations-the-littman-study-and-rapid-onset-gender-dysphoria/#comment-97757&quot;&gt;John Pieret&lt;/a&gt;.

Just like an &quot;explosion&quot; of left-handed people -- and everyone knew there were left-handed people before this &quot;explosion&quot; occurred, by the way; it was no surprise -- there is an &quot;explosion&quot; of detransitioners, now that people are so rapidly fast-tracked into the awesome transgender solution: &quot;Carey Callahan is a 36-year-old woman living in Ohio who detransitioned after identifying as trans for four years and spending nine months on male hormones. She previously blogged under the pseudonym Maria Catt, but “came out” in a YouTube video in July 2016. She now serves as something of an older sister to a network of female, mostly younger detransitioners, about 70 of whom she has met in person; she told me she has corresponded online with an additional 300. &quot; from https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/07/when-a-child-says-shes-trans/561749/]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/09/01/researching-hidden-populations-the-littman-study-and-rapid-onset-gender-dysphoria/#comment-97757">John Pieret</a>.</p>
<p>Just like an &#8220;explosion&#8221; of left-handed people &#8212; and everyone knew there were left-handed people before this &#8220;explosion&#8221; occurred, by the way; it was no surprise &#8212; there is an &#8220;explosion&#8221; of detransitioners, now that people are so rapidly fast-tracked into the awesome transgender solution: &#8220;Carey Callahan is a 36-year-old woman living in Ohio who detransitioned after identifying as trans for four years and spending nine months on male hormones. She previously blogged under the pseudonym Maria Catt, but “came out” in a YouTube video in July 2016. She now serves as something of an older sister to a network of female, mostly younger detransitioners, about 70 of whom she has met in person; she told me she has corresponded online with an additional 300. &#8221; from <a href="https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/07/when-a-child-says-shes-trans/561749/" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/07/when-a-child-says-shes-trans/561749/</a></p>
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