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	<title>
	Comments on: Willow Creek Church Elders to Resign by the End of 2018	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/08/08/will-willow-creek-elders-resign-tonight/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/08/08/will-willow-creek-elders-resign-tonight/</link>
	<description>A [retired] college psychology professor&#039;s observations about public policy, mental health, sexual identity, and religious issues</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 25 Oct 2018 15:24:15 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: TomcatRyan		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/08/08/will-willow-creek-elders-resign-tonight/#comment-98460</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TomcatRyan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Oct 2018 15:24:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=32980#comment-98460</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Sounds like Bill needs to gas up the Willow jet and lay low for a while.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sounds like Bill needs to gas up the Willow jet and lay low for a while.</p>
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		<title>
		By: 1st_Amendment		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/08/08/will-willow-creek-elders-resign-tonight/#comment-97147</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[1st_Amendment]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Aug 2018 19:58:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=32980#comment-97147</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/08/08/will-willow-creek-elders-resign-tonight/#comment-97141&quot;&gt;David Rahrer&lt;/a&gt;.

lol,  that&#039;s your best counter point; my comments seem unnecessarily partisan?  lol, OK, That&#039;s because you see party loyalty first rather than ethics/morals, however you may put it.

Bill Hybels associated himself firmly in democratic circles.  He was Bill Clinton&#039;s spiritual adviser for 8 years.  He scoffed at republicans or conservatives.  

A couple problems with your equivocation of political parties come to mind.
One party had they leader, Bill Clinton&#039;s name on over 22 flight logs on the Lolita Express with convicted Pedo Jeffrey Epstein with trips between 2001 and 2003 included extended junkets.  That would be after Clinton&#039;s GLS appearance in 2000.
One party had their leader, Bill Clinton, evade consequences for rape, sexual assault/ harassment charges (Juanita Broaddrick) and was kept in leadership power.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/08/08/will-willow-creek-elders-resign-tonight/#comment-97141">David Rahrer</a>.</p>
<p>lol,  that&#8217;s your best counter point; my comments seem unnecessarily partisan?  lol, OK, That&#8217;s because you see party loyalty first rather than ethics/morals, however you may put it.</p>
<p>Bill Hybels associated himself firmly in democratic circles.  He was Bill Clinton&#8217;s spiritual adviser for 8 years.  He scoffed at republicans or conservatives.  </p>
<p>A couple problems with your equivocation of political parties come to mind.<br />
One party had they leader, Bill Clinton&#8217;s name on over 22 flight logs on the Lolita Express with convicted Pedo Jeffrey Epstein with trips between 2001 and 2003 included extended junkets.  That would be after Clinton&#8217;s GLS appearance in 2000.<br />
One party had their leader, Bill Clinton, evade consequences for rape, sexual assault/ harassment charges (Juanita Broaddrick) and was kept in leadership power.</p>
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		<title>
		By: David Rahrer		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/08/08/will-willow-creek-elders-resign-tonight/#comment-97151</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Rahrer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Aug 2018 19:42:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=32980#comment-97151</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[There is enough in that last comment from him/her to demonstrate this is basic trolling. Hybels is just a convenient excuse in this case.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is enough in that last comment from him/her to demonstrate this is basic trolling. Hybels is just a convenient excuse in this case.</p>
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		<title>
		By: David Rahrer		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/08/08/will-willow-creek-elders-resign-tonight/#comment-97152</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Rahrer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Aug 2018 19:42:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=32980#comment-97152</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[There is enough in that last comment from him/her to demonstrate this is basic trolling. Hybels is just a convenient excuse in this case.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is enough in that last comment from him/her to demonstrate this is basic trolling. Hybels is just a convenient excuse in this case.</p>
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		<title>
		By: David Rahrer		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/08/08/will-willow-creek-elders-resign-tonight/#comment-97149</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Rahrer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Aug 2018 19:35:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=32980#comment-97149</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/08/08/will-willow-creek-elders-resign-tonight/#comment-97147&quot;&gt;1st_Amendment&lt;/a&gt;.

It wasn&#039;t a counterpoint, it was an observation. There is nothing particularly substantive in your comments to refute.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/08/08/will-willow-creek-elders-resign-tonight/#comment-97147">1st_Amendment</a>.</p>
<p>It wasn&#8217;t a counterpoint, it was an observation. There is nothing particularly substantive in your comments to refute.</p>
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		<title>
		By: 1st_Amendment		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/08/08/will-willow-creek-elders-resign-tonight/#comment-97148</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[1st_Amendment]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Aug 2018 16:29:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=32980#comment-97148</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Ok, looks like I touched a nerve with Hybel&#039;s association with Democrats.  Sorry, its true, whether you and David trigger on it or not; whether you think all politicians or parties are the same, or not.  Bill Hybels was Clinton&#039;s spiritual adviser for 8 years and you can find pictures of him introducing Obama more recently for an immigration speech as well.  

I did not mention President Trump, so I will have to decline you H card for insufficient resources.  It was interesting that you played it in the unique conditional sense, if I am a Trump supporter, so good virtue signalling to your Antifa friends.  Did you have another card you wanted to use?

(trigger warning: do not read if easily triggered)  
The implying and condemning of Trump Support reminded me of how other Democrat supporters impugned their special needs teen kidnap victim (F Trump this, F Trump that) and tortured him for 6 hours in Chicago after the 2016 election. I don&#039;t think the teen was into political candidates or voted, incidentally.
(/trigger warning) 

Bonus:  It was Democrats that voted to keep God&#039;s name out of their platform in their 2012 convention.  So there is a kind of difference between parties there if that is a moral problem for you.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, looks like I touched a nerve with Hybel&#8217;s association with Democrats.  Sorry, its true, whether you and David trigger on it or not; whether you think all politicians or parties are the same, or not.  Bill Hybels was Clinton&#8217;s spiritual adviser for 8 years and you can find pictures of him introducing Obama more recently for an immigration speech as well.  </p>
<p>I did not mention President Trump, so I will have to decline you H card for insufficient resources.  It was interesting that you played it in the unique conditional sense, if I am a Trump supporter, so good virtue signalling to your Antifa friends.  Did you have another card you wanted to use?</p>
<p>(trigger warning: do not read if easily triggered)<br />
The implying and condemning of Trump Support reminded me of how other Democrat supporters impugned their special needs teen kidnap victim (F Trump this, F Trump that) and tortured him for 6 hours in Chicago after the 2016 election. I don&#8217;t think the teen was into political candidates or voted, incidentally.<br />
(/trigger warning) </p>
<p>Bonus:  It was Democrats that voted to keep God&#8217;s name out of their platform in their 2012 convention.  So there is a kind of difference between parties there if that is a moral problem for you.</p>
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		<title>
		By: David Rahrer		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/08/08/will-willow-creek-elders-resign-tonight/#comment-97141</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Rahrer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Aug 2018 12:26:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=32980#comment-97141</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/08/08/will-willow-creek-elders-resign-tonight/#comment-97128&quot;&gt;1st_Amendment&lt;/a&gt;.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Bill seemed to be attempting a rehabilitation effort for Clinton, inviting him to the GLS to cleanse his democrat party candidates of low morals. Look Christians, he&#039;s a bible follower and repenting.&lt;/blockquote&gt;Your comment seems unnecessarily partisan considering neither party has been free of members with personal moral failings of this type. Your use of the disparaging epithet &quot;democrat party&quot; (the correct name is the Democratic Party, democrat is a noun, not an adjective) is a stark tell concerning the bias you hold.

Case in point, your quote above could just as easily be used to describe the nonsense evangelical leaders spouted about Trump before he was elected (baby Christian?). They continue to fawn over him in great numbers - talk about embracing evil. Bill Hybels&#039; misdeeds stand on their own and do not need to be connected to partisan political conjecture.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/08/08/will-willow-creek-elders-resign-tonight/#comment-97128">1st_Amendment</a>.</p>
<blockquote><p>Bill seemed to be attempting a rehabilitation effort for Clinton, inviting him to the GLS to cleanse his democrat party candidates of low morals. Look Christians, he&#8217;s a bible follower and repenting.</p></blockquote>
<p>Your comment seems unnecessarily partisan considering neither party has been free of members with personal moral failings of this type. Your use of the disparaging epithet &#8220;democrat party&#8221; (the correct name is the Democratic Party, democrat is a noun, not an adjective) is a stark tell concerning the bias you hold.</p>
<p>Case in point, your quote above could just as easily be used to describe the nonsense evangelical leaders spouted about Trump before he was elected (baby Christian?). They continue to fawn over him in great numbers &#8211; talk about embracing evil. Bill Hybels&#8217; misdeeds stand on their own and do not need to be connected to partisan political conjecture.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Jones		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/08/08/will-willow-creek-elders-resign-tonight/#comment-97138</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Jones]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Aug 2018 19:16:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=32980#comment-97138</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Yep that’s better, nice throw, pause. Yep that’s better, nice throw, pause.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yep that’s better, nice throw, pause. Yep that’s better, nice throw, pause.</p>
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		<title>
		By: 1st_Amendment		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/08/08/will-willow-creek-elders-resign-tonight/#comment-97137</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[1st_Amendment]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Aug 2018 17:03:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=32980#comment-97137</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[You are correct, Not equal at all; not trying to imply that.  I am very skeptical that BH would respond for an embarrassing humbling process that he put others thru for milder stuff.  I suspect that the path to some kind of restoration of the women would be financial, at least, and is a major impediment.  He has been silent on this since he resigned with:  &quot;Let me be clear: None of these allegations are true.&quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are correct, Not equal at all; not trying to imply that.  I am very skeptical that BH would respond for an embarrassing humbling process that he put others thru for milder stuff.  I suspect that the path to some kind of restoration of the women would be financial, at least, and is a major impediment.  He has been silent on this since he resigned with:  &#8220;Let me be clear: None of these allegations are true.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>
		By: 1st_Amendment		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2018/08/08/will-willow-creek-elders-resign-tonight/#comment-97128</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[1st_Amendment]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Aug 2018 15:30:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=32980#comment-97128</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I can not say that I am surprised about Bill&#039;s fall.  
He passively excused professing Christian President Clinton&#039;s behavior through his monthly &#039;mentoring&#039; years ago as we find now was happening at the same time as his own predatory behavior.   (Lewinski affair revealed in news Jan1998, Bill invites worship leader to hotel room in Sweden Feb1998) 
Willow&#039;s mission to reach the unchurched dodged a huge reputation hit and potential exodus when absolutely No media coverage was reported of the regular monthly meetings when the Monica story broke.  

&quot;Bill, did your mentoring meetings with Clinton occur right after Monica&#039;s meetings?.  Did you meet her?  How did Clinton explain the ongoing adultery to you while simultaneously holding bible studies with you?&quot;  Did Clinton seem sincere about following Jesus?  Did you suspect he was using you to shield himself from Evangelical scrutiny? Did you ever meet any of the other women Clinton had groomed and subsequently slandered?  What did you make of all those stories of untimely deaths of women and protectors of Clinton&quot;

Many at Willow felt assaulted when they heard, after the fact, that Clinton was given the Willow Creek platform at the 2000 GLS, after vetoing the ban on partial birth abortion, the most horrific violation of innocence humanity has devised.

Bill seemed to be attempting a rehabilitation effort for Clinton, inviting him to the GLS to cleanse his democrat party candidates of low morals.  Look Christians, he&#039;s a bible follower and repenting.
Bill had given a pass to all sorts of evil the democrats embrace and continue to.  No surprise he took after one of their top leaders.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can not say that I am surprised about Bill&#8217;s fall.<br />
He passively excused professing Christian President Clinton&#8217;s behavior through his monthly &#8216;mentoring&#8217; years ago as we find now was happening at the same time as his own predatory behavior.   (Lewinski affair revealed in news Jan1998, Bill invites worship leader to hotel room in Sweden Feb1998)<br />
Willow&#8217;s mission to reach the unchurched dodged a huge reputation hit and potential exodus when absolutely No media coverage was reported of the regular monthly meetings when the Monica story broke.  </p>
<p>&#8220;Bill, did your mentoring meetings with Clinton occur right after Monica&#8217;s meetings?.  Did you meet her?  How did Clinton explain the ongoing adultery to you while simultaneously holding bible studies with you?&#8221;  Did Clinton seem sincere about following Jesus?  Did you suspect he was using you to shield himself from Evangelical scrutiny? Did you ever meet any of the other women Clinton had groomed and subsequently slandered?  What did you make of all those stories of untimely deaths of women and protectors of Clinton&#8221;</p>
<p>Many at Willow felt assaulted when they heard, after the fact, that Clinton was given the Willow Creek platform at the 2000 GLS, after vetoing the ban on partial birth abortion, the most horrific violation of innocence humanity has devised.</p>
<p>Bill seemed to be attempting a rehabilitation effort for Clinton, inviting him to the GLS to cleanse his democrat party candidates of low morals.  Look Christians, he&#8217;s a bible follower and repenting.<br />
Bill had given a pass to all sorts of evil the democrats embrace and continue to.  No surprise he took after one of their top leaders.</p>
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