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	Comments on: Joyce Meyer Ministries: Life Christian University&#8217;s Description of Earned Doctorate Does Not &#034;Accurately Reflect the Information Correctly&#034;	</title>
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	<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2017/04/23/joyce-meyer-earned-doctorate-not-accurate/</link>
	<description>A [retired] college psychology professor&#039;s observations about public policy, mental health, sexual identity, and religious issues</description>
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		<title>
		By: ken		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2017/04/23/joyce-meyer-earned-doctorate-not-accurate/#comment-113903</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ken]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Mar 2022 17:21:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=29613#comment-113903</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2017/04/23/joyce-meyer-earned-doctorate-not-accurate/#comment-113897&quot;&gt;CommentUser&lt;/a&gt;.

&quot;If ....&quot; 

&quot;If ....&quot; 

&quot;If .,..&quot; 



 a lot of supposition on your part, but few actual facts.  here is the fact you seem to want to gloss over.  When Meyers was confronted about whether she was being deceptive about her educational background (which would be a violation of MO law), she changed her claims about having an earned degree.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2017/04/23/joyce-meyer-earned-doctorate-not-accurate/#comment-113897">CommentUser</a>.</p>
<p>&#8220;If &#8230;.&#8221; </p>
<p>&#8220;If &#8230;.&#8221; </p>
<p>&#8220;If .,..&#8221; </p>
<p> a lot of supposition on your part, but few actual facts.  here is the fact you seem to want to gloss over.  When Meyers was confronted about whether she was being deceptive about her educational background (which would be a violation of MO law), she changed her claims about having an earned degree.</p>
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		<title>
		By: CommentUser		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2017/04/23/joyce-meyer-earned-doctorate-not-accurate/#comment-113897</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[CommentUser]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Mar 2022 13:00:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=29613#comment-113897</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[If I were Joyce Meyer, and if Life Christian University (LCU) did in fact acknowledge it as an earned degree, and they either accepted life experience in lieu of classroom experience (in which Mrs. Meyer did pay for remaining courses and did do the work the remaining classes required), or LCU granted the degree based upon a contribution to the field (with documentation of work, procedure consistent with accreditation, and no money was exchanged), and it did fit within the state law for the university (in this case Florida where LCU is granted degree granting status, and particularly if the state law requires an accreditation agency - that LCU followed the accreditation agency), then Joyce Meyer did not use the degree in a deceptive manner. 

Specifically the Missouri law is attempting to stop someone from stating they have a degree when they do not, or using a degree that is designated as purely honorary as if it were not (and degrees granted based upon life experience, or contribution to a field, and particularly where the university itself recognizes it as not explicitly honorary, are not necessarily purely honorary as a degree like humane letters would be).  You can read the Missouri state law here:  revisor [dot] mo [dot] gov/main/OneSection.aspx?section=173.754

If however, Missouri was to read the law to apply to Mrs. Meyer - from a legal standpoint they may find it difficult to establish standing in the case.  LCU is in Florida - that makes this interstate commerce.  I would think that if Mrs. Meyer had challenged the law, that the state of Missouri would have had a hard time finding standing in this case, since:  Mrs. Meyer holds a legitimate degree which Florida law allowed for; regardless of how the Missouri state law was written, it is attempting to define when the public acts of other states regarding legitimate granted degrees under their state law would be acceptable regarding a person who gained a right to a degree under another state&#039;s laws.  On this last point, this full-faith-and-credit power (the determination of how one state will recognize the public acts and records of another state in regards to the rights of citizens of one state in another state) is a federal responsibility under the U.S. Constitution granted to congress.  Congress to my knowledge (and I could be wrong here, since this is not an area of law that I have dealt extensively with) has not passed legislation that would prohibit or explicitly allow states to exercise their own laws in regards to full-faith-and-credit regarding degree&#039;s granted in other states.  Where congress has not done this, then &quot;Full faith and credit shall be given in each state to the public acts, records, and judicial proceedings of every other state.&quot; (U.S. Constitution Art 4 Sec 1). If Missouri state law were read to apply to Mrs. Meyer, it would particularly disparage a right that is legitimate under the laws of Florida, which full-faith-and-credit would require Missouri to recognize.

Missouri may have a better chance, in regards to standing in a case like this, at suing LCU or the state of Florida, if they believed that either LCU was not following accreditation, or that Florida was not upholding its own laws (which then in turn hampered the intent behind upholding Missouri state law for their own citizens protection), but I would not think they would have had much of a case against Mrs. Meyer (and as a result section 173.754 of the Title XI  - Education and Libraries law of Missouri would end up being clarified by the court as not being able to disparage a right that a citizen legitimately obtained in another state, and again for that reason Missouri would lack standing to even bring the case against Mrs. Meyer and it would most likely have been dismissed in the original case, or on appeal).

But, Mrs. Meyer&#039;s ministry, as you pointed out, felt that since some people did not feel that earned was appropriate, and as her ministry reflected on it, that felt that earned did not reflect the information accurately (despite how LCU classified the degree), that they would voluntarily change the designation on their own to honorary.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I were Joyce Meyer, and if Life Christian University (LCU) did in fact acknowledge it as an earned degree, and they either accepted life experience in lieu of classroom experience (in which Mrs. Meyer did pay for remaining courses and did do the work the remaining classes required), or LCU granted the degree based upon a contribution to the field (with documentation of work, procedure consistent with accreditation, and no money was exchanged), and it did fit within the state law for the university (in this case Florida where LCU is granted degree granting status, and particularly if the state law requires an accreditation agency &#8211; that LCU followed the accreditation agency), then Joyce Meyer did not use the degree in a deceptive manner. </p>
<p>Specifically the Missouri law is attempting to stop someone from stating they have a degree when they do not, or using a degree that is designated as purely honorary as if it were not (and degrees granted based upon life experience, or contribution to a field, and particularly where the university itself recognizes it as not explicitly honorary, are not necessarily purely honorary as a degree like humane letters would be).  You can read the Missouri state law here:  revisor [dot] mo [dot] gov/main/OneSection.aspx?section=173.754</p>
<p>If however, Missouri was to read the law to apply to Mrs. Meyer &#8211; from a legal standpoint they may find it difficult to establish standing in the case.  LCU is in Florida &#8211; that makes this interstate commerce.  I would think that if Mrs. Meyer had challenged the law, that the state of Missouri would have had a hard time finding standing in this case, since:  Mrs. Meyer holds a legitimate degree which Florida law allowed for; regardless of how the Missouri state law was written, it is attempting to define when the public acts of other states regarding legitimate granted degrees under their state law would be acceptable regarding a person who gained a right to a degree under another state&#8217;s laws.  On this last point, this full-faith-and-credit power (the determination of how one state will recognize the public acts and records of another state in regards to the rights of citizens of one state in another state) is a federal responsibility under the U.S. Constitution granted to congress.  Congress to my knowledge (and I could be wrong here, since this is not an area of law that I have dealt extensively with) has not passed legislation that would prohibit or explicitly allow states to exercise their own laws in regards to full-faith-and-credit regarding degree&#8217;s granted in other states.  Where congress has not done this, then &#8220;Full faith and credit shall be given in each state to the public acts, records, and judicial proceedings of every other state.&#8221; (U.S. Constitution Art 4 Sec 1). If Missouri state law were read to apply to Mrs. Meyer, it would particularly disparage a right that is legitimate under the laws of Florida, which full-faith-and-credit would require Missouri to recognize.</p>
<p>Missouri may have a better chance, in regards to standing in a case like this, at suing LCU or the state of Florida, if they believed that either LCU was not following accreditation, or that Florida was not upholding its own laws (which then in turn hampered the intent behind upholding Missouri state law for their own citizens protection), but I would not think they would have had much of a case against Mrs. Meyer (and as a result section 173.754 of the Title XI  &#8211; Education and Libraries law of Missouri would end up being clarified by the court as not being able to disparage a right that a citizen legitimately obtained in another state, and again for that reason Missouri would lack standing to even bring the case against Mrs. Meyer and it would most likely have been dismissed in the original case, or on appeal).</p>
<p>But, Mrs. Meyer&#8217;s ministry, as you pointed out, felt that since some people did not feel that earned was appropriate, and as her ministry reflected on it, that felt that earned did not reflect the information accurately (despite how LCU classified the degree), that they would voluntarily change the designation on their own to honorary.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Justin Wayne McCulley		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2017/04/23/joyce-meyer-earned-doctorate-not-accurate/#comment-113786</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Justin Wayne McCulley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Jan 2022 02:56:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=29613#comment-113786</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2017/04/23/joyce-meyer-earned-doctorate-not-accurate/#comment-113785&quot;&gt;Mr Jesperson&lt;/a&gt;.

Your a Christian and you&#039;re using bs in a post. Wow! 

By the way thanks for the free publicity! People that know me know who I am and they know the life I live for the Lord. Mans approval is not needed! I am not trying to be ugly in any way! However this is still the USA and I am entitled to my opinion just as much as you are!

~ Blessings!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2017/04/23/joyce-meyer-earned-doctorate-not-accurate/#comment-113785">Mr Jesperson</a>.</p>
<p>Your a Christian and you&#8217;re using bs in a post. Wow! </p>
<p>By the way thanks for the free publicity! People that know me know who I am and they know the life I live for the Lord. Mans approval is not needed! I am not trying to be ugly in any way! However this is still the USA and I am entitled to my opinion just as much as you are!</p>
<p>~ Blessings!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mr Jesperson		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2017/04/23/joyce-meyer-earned-doctorate-not-accurate/#comment-113785</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mr Jesperson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Jan 2022 20:26:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=29613#comment-113785</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2017/04/23/joyce-meyer-earned-doctorate-not-accurate/#comment-113784&quot;&gt;Justin Wayne McCulley&lt;/a&gt;.

Occasionally some snake masquerading as a minister of Jesus Christ shows up on this blog and talks a bunch of b.s.  I thank those who let us know who they are.  Looks like you come from Spart TN.  Here is the &quot;church&quot; reference: https://www.victorybible.org/location/]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2017/04/23/joyce-meyer-earned-doctorate-not-accurate/#comment-113784">Justin Wayne McCulley</a>.</p>
<p>Occasionally some snake masquerading as a minister of Jesus Christ shows up on this blog and talks a bunch of b.s.  I thank those who let us know who they are.  Looks like you come from Spart TN.  Here is the &#8220;church&#8221; reference: <a href="https://www.victorybible.org/location/" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.victorybible.org/location/</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Justin Wayne McCulley		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2017/04/23/joyce-meyer-earned-doctorate-not-accurate/#comment-113784</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Justin Wayne McCulley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jan 2022 17:44:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=29613#comment-113784</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2017/04/23/joyce-meyer-earned-doctorate-not-accurate/#comment-113783&quot;&gt;Warren Throckmorton&lt;/a&gt;.

All of your articles about them go far beyond what you just said.  You make them out to be wolves in sheeps clothing. It takes 4 years to get to the BS unless you have credits from another christian school that you can transfer in. Now I am a Pastor in the Church of God (Cleveland, TN) and I have taken classes through the School of Ministry which is college level courses and are transferable into Lee College which is nationally recognized and I can tell you that the course work and requirements are equal to the work I have done at LCU. If it was not for this type of program I would not have been able to attend bible college. One other thing when I finally do make it to the Bachelor in Theology Degree that will be my degree that I have earned by paying my tuition with my hard earned money and meeting all requirements and passing all exams. I will refer it it as a degree. When you add in the hours that are required for the ministry practicum they meet the requirements. LCU has met the requirements of the State of Florida to offer religious degrees. 

BLESSINGS!

Pastor Justin Wayne McCulley]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2017/04/23/joyce-meyer-earned-doctorate-not-accurate/#comment-113783">Warren Throckmorton</a>.</p>
<p>All of your articles about them go far beyond what you just said.  You make them out to be wolves in sheeps clothing. It takes 4 years to get to the BS unless you have credits from another christian school that you can transfer in. Now I am a Pastor in the Church of God (Cleveland, TN) and I have taken classes through the School of Ministry which is college level courses and are transferable into Lee College which is nationally recognized and I can tell you that the course work and requirements are equal to the work I have done at LCU. If it was not for this type of program I would not have been able to attend bible college. One other thing when I finally do make it to the Bachelor in Theology Degree that will be my degree that I have earned by paying my tuition with my hard earned money and meeting all requirements and passing all exams. I will refer it it as a degree. When you add in the hours that are required for the ministry practicum they meet the requirements. LCU has met the requirements of the State of Florida to offer religious degrees. </p>
<p>BLESSINGS!</p>
<p>Pastor Justin Wayne McCulley</p>
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