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	Comments on: Debunking One of David Barton&#8217;s Oldest Stories: Thomas Jefferson and the D.C. Schools	</title>
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	<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2016/03/06/debunking-one-of-david-bartons-oldest-stories-thomas-jefferson-and-the-d-c-schools/</link>
	<description>A [retired] college psychology professor&#039;s observations about public policy, mental health, sexual identity, and religious issues</description>
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		<title>
		By: Warren Throckmorton		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2016/03/06/debunking-one-of-david-bartons-oldest-stories-thomas-jefferson-and-the-d-c-schools/#comment-103398</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Warren Throckmorton]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Sep 2019 02:45:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=26694#comment-103398</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2016/03/06/debunking-one-of-david-bartons-oldest-stories-thomas-jefferson-and-the-d-c-schools/#comment-103397&quot;&gt;Deb  &lt;/a&gt;.

You are conflating events. 

Jefferson left Washington DC in March 1809 after Madison&#039;s inauguration. He arrived at Monticello on March 15, 1809. https://monticello-www.s3.amazonaws.com/files/old/inline-pdfs/2009sRetireSmr09.pdf.

The DC schools started using the Lancaster method which included Bible reading in 1812. Jefferson was long gone by that time. 

Webster doesn&#039;t have anything to do with the DC schools. The Webster quote is dubious and doesn&#039;t have anything to do with this post. /2013/01/09/david-barton-uses-jefferson-quote-he-says-is-unconfirmed/.

Edit to add: There is good reason to doubt Webster&#039;s account of this quote. He said he visited Jefferson in June and they had delightful weather. A contemporaneous account of their visit to Monticello places Webster at Monticello in December with bad weather. Webster also needed to leave early due to receiving word that one of his children was ill. Webster didn&#039;t write about this until 27 years after it allegedly happened. /2016/06/07/in-new-book-eric-metaxas-takes-a-page-from-david-barton/.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2016/03/06/debunking-one-of-david-bartons-oldest-stories-thomas-jefferson-and-the-d-c-schools/#comment-103397">Deb  </a>.</p>
<p>You are conflating events. </p>
<p>Jefferson left Washington DC in March 1809 after Madison&#8217;s inauguration. He arrived at Monticello on March 15, 1809. <a href="https://monticello-www.s3.amazonaws.com/files/old/inline-pdfs/2009sRetireSmr09.pdf" rel="nofollow ugc">https://monticello-www.s3.amazonaws.com/files/old/inline-pdfs/2009sRetireSmr09.pdf</a>.</p>
<p>The DC schools started using the Lancaster method which included Bible reading in 1812. Jefferson was long gone by that time. </p>
<p>Webster doesn&#8217;t have anything to do with the DC schools. The Webster quote is dubious and doesn&#8217;t have anything to do with this post. /2013/01/09/david-barton-uses-jefferson-quote-he-says-is-unconfirmed/.</p>
<p>Edit to add: There is good reason to doubt Webster&#8217;s account of this quote. He said he visited Jefferson in June and they had delightful weather. A contemporaneous account of their visit to Monticello places Webster at Monticello in December with bad weather. Webster also needed to leave early due to receiving word that one of his children was ill. Webster didn&#8217;t write about this until 27 years after it allegedly happened. /2016/06/07/in-new-book-eric-metaxas-takes-a-page-from-david-barton/.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Deb		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2016/03/06/debunking-one-of-david-bartons-oldest-stories-thomas-jefferson-and-the-d-c-schools/#comment-103391</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Deb]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Sep 2019 01:13:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=26694#comment-103391</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2016/03/06/debunking-one-of-david-bartons-oldest-stories-thomas-jefferson-and-the-d-c-schools/#comment-103390&quot;&gt;Warren Throckmorton&lt;/a&gt;.

Since Jefferson was on the school board if he didn&#039;t want the Bible used in schools he could have opposed it. A quote from Webster&#039;s letter:   &quot;Raikes,&quot; said Mr. Jefferson, &quot;has done more for our country than the present generation will acknowledge; perhaps when I am cold he will obtain his reward; I hope so, earnestly hope so; I am considered by many, Mr. Webster, to have little religion, but now is not the time to correct errors of this sort. I have always said, and always will say, that the studious perusal of the sacred volume will make better citizens, better fathers, and better husbands....   https://books.google.com/books? 
 
 From letter 656 
 
id=5Cx3AAAAMAAJ&#038;pg=PA656&#038;lpg=PA656&#038;dq=%22Raikes,%22+said+Mr.+Jefferson,+%22has+done+more+for+our+country+than+the+present+generation+will+acknowledge;+perhaps+when+I+am+cold+he+will+obtain+his+reward;+I+hope+so,+earnestly+hope+so;+I+am+considered+by+many,+Mr.+Webster,+to+have+little+religion,+but+now+is+not+the+time+to+correct+errors+of+this+sort.+I+have+always+said,+and+always+will+say,+that+the+studious+perusal+of+the+sacred+volume+will+make+better+citizens,+better+fathers,+and+better+husbands.&#038;source=bl&#038;ots=vpJQfNpnVq&#038;sig=ACfU3U1tQQYoR3oXmIBnC1EgftH-87gutA&#038;hl=en&#038;sa=X&#038;ved=2ahUKEwjqjcCO-rDkAhUEna0KHSviA00Q6AEwBHoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&#038;q&#038;f=false]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2016/03/06/debunking-one-of-david-bartons-oldest-stories-thomas-jefferson-and-the-d-c-schools/#comment-103390">Warren Throckmorton</a>.</p>
<p>Since Jefferson was on the school board if he didn&#8217;t want the Bible used in schools he could have opposed it. A quote from Webster&#8217;s letter:   &#8220;Raikes,&#8221; said Mr. Jefferson, &#8220;has done more for our country than the present generation will acknowledge; perhaps when I am cold he will obtain his reward; I hope so, earnestly hope so; I am considered by many, Mr. Webster, to have little religion, but now is not the time to correct errors of this sort. I have always said, and always will say, that the studious perusal of the sacred volume will make better citizens, better fathers, and better husbands&#8230;.   <a href="https://books.google.com/books" rel="nofollow ugc">https://books.google.com/books</a>? </p>
<p> From letter 656 </p>
<p>id=5Cx3AAAAMAAJ&amp;pg=PA656&amp;lpg=PA656&amp;dq=%22Raikes,%22+said+Mr.+Jefferson,+%22has+done+more+for+our+country+than+the+present+generation+will+acknowledge;+perhaps+when+I+am+cold+he+will+obtain+his+reward;+I+hope+so,+earnestly+hope+so;+I+am+considered+by+many,+Mr.+Webster,+to+have+little+religion,+but+now+is+not+the+time+to+correct+errors+of+this+sort.+I+have+always+said,+and+always+will+say,+that+the+studious+perusal+of+the+sacred+volume+will+make+better+citizens,+better+fathers,+and+better+husbands.&amp;source=bl&amp;ots=vpJQfNpnVq&amp;sig=ACfU3U1tQQYoR3oXmIBnC1EgftH-87gutA&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;ved=2ahUKEwjqjcCO-rDkAhUEna0KHSviA00Q6AEwBHoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&amp;q&amp;f=false</p>
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		<title>
		By: Deb  		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2016/03/06/debunking-one-of-david-bartons-oldest-stories-thomas-jefferson-and-the-d-c-schools/#comment-103397</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Deb  ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Sep 2019 22:04:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=26694#comment-103397</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2016/03/06/debunking-one-of-david-bartons-oldest-stories-thomas-jefferson-and-the-d-c-schools/#comment-103394&quot;&gt;Warren Throckmorton&lt;/a&gt;.

He was in Virginia when Webster visited him.  The visit that Daniel Webster refers to in his letter.  He went back to VA in 1810.  They were still using the Bible after he left.   Jefferson believed younger children (in their first 3 years of school shouldn&#039;t receive lessons from the Bible)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2016/03/06/debunking-one-of-david-bartons-oldest-stories-thomas-jefferson-and-the-d-c-schools/#comment-103394">Warren Throckmorton</a>.</p>
<p>He was in Virginia when Webster visited him.  The visit that Daniel Webster refers to in his letter.  He went back to VA in 1810.  They were still using the Bible after he left.   Jefferson believed younger children (in their first 3 years of school shouldn&#8217;t receive lessons from the Bible)</p>
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		<title>
		By: Warren Throckmorton		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2016/03/06/debunking-one-of-david-bartons-oldest-stories-thomas-jefferson-and-the-d-c-schools/#comment-103396</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Warren Throckmorton]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Sep 2019 21:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=26694#comment-103396</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2016/03/06/debunking-one-of-david-bartons-oldest-stories-thomas-jefferson-and-the-d-c-schools/#comment-103392&quot;&gt;Deb  &lt;/a&gt;.

I don&#039;t see a reason not to use materials from any historical book but I don&#039;t want my children taught from any religious book in public school. It isn&#039;t just about forcing religion, it is teaching religion. Reading part of the primary sources to teach about the beliefs and their place in history seems reasonable. Teaching them the way Barton wants them taught is not.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2016/03/06/debunking-one-of-david-bartons-oldest-stories-thomas-jefferson-and-the-d-c-schools/#comment-103392">Deb  </a>.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t see a reason not to use materials from any historical book but I don&#8217;t want my children taught from any religious book in public school. It isn&#8217;t just about forcing religion, it is teaching religion. Reading part of the primary sources to teach about the beliefs and their place in history seems reasonable. Teaching them the way Barton wants them taught is not.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Warren Throckmorton		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2016/03/06/debunking-one-of-david-bartons-oldest-stories-thomas-jefferson-and-the-d-c-schools/#comment-103395</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Warren Throckmorton]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Sep 2019 21:14:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=26694#comment-103395</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2016/03/06/debunking-one-of-david-bartons-oldest-stories-thomas-jefferson-and-the-d-c-schools/#comment-103391&quot;&gt;Deb&lt;/a&gt;.

It is likely that Jefferson never said that, at least in that way. In any case, it can&#039;t be confirmed and even Barton said so (except when he wants to use the quote). /2013/01/09/david-barton-uses-jefferson-quote-he-says-is-unconfirmed/]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2016/03/06/debunking-one-of-david-bartons-oldest-stories-thomas-jefferson-and-the-d-c-schools/#comment-103391">Deb</a>.</p>
<p>It is likely that Jefferson never said that, at least in that way. In any case, it can&#8217;t be confirmed and even Barton said so (except when he wants to use the quote). /2013/01/09/david-barton-uses-jefferson-quote-he-says-is-unconfirmed/</p>
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		<title>
		By: Warren Throckmorton		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2016/03/06/debunking-one-of-david-bartons-oldest-stories-thomas-jefferson-and-the-d-c-schools/#comment-103394</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Warren Throckmorton]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Sep 2019 21:11:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=26694#comment-103394</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2016/03/06/debunking-one-of-david-bartons-oldest-stories-thomas-jefferson-and-the-d-c-schools/#comment-103393&quot;&gt;Deb  &lt;/a&gt;.

read the post above. Jefferson was back home in VA when the Bible was being used in DC schools.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2016/03/06/debunking-one-of-david-bartons-oldest-stories-thomas-jefferson-and-the-d-c-schools/#comment-103393">Deb  </a>.</p>
<p>read the post above. Jefferson was back home in VA when the Bible was being used in DC schools.</p>
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		By: Deb  		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2016/03/06/debunking-one-of-david-bartons-oldest-stories-thomas-jefferson-and-the-d-c-schools/#comment-103393</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Deb  ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Sep 2019 21:06:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=26694#comment-103393</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2016/03/06/debunking-one-of-david-bartons-oldest-stories-thomas-jefferson-and-the-d-c-schools/#comment-103389&quot;&gt;David Rahrer&lt;/a&gt;.

Since there were no textbooks, or very few, and practically every home probably had a Bible, it made perfect sense to use them.  And the only inaccuracy I see in Barton&#039;s telling of history is that Jefferson didn&#039;t actually write the Bible into the curriculum.  But as a member of the school board he could have protested the use of the Bible if he was truly against it in older children]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2016/03/06/debunking-one-of-david-bartons-oldest-stories-thomas-jefferson-and-the-d-c-schools/#comment-103389">David Rahrer</a>.</p>
<p>Since there were no textbooks, or very few, and practically every home probably had a Bible, it made perfect sense to use them.  And the only inaccuracy I see in Barton&#8217;s telling of history is that Jefferson didn&#8217;t actually write the Bible into the curriculum.  But as a member of the school board he could have protested the use of the Bible if he was truly against it in older children</p>
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		By: Deb  		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2016/03/06/debunking-one-of-david-bartons-oldest-stories-thomas-jefferson-and-the-d-c-schools/#comment-103392</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Deb  ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Sep 2019 21:03:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=26694#comment-103392</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2016/03/06/debunking-one-of-david-bartons-oldest-stories-thomas-jefferson-and-the-d-c-schools/#comment-103390&quot;&gt;Warren Throckmorton&lt;/a&gt;.

As long as no religion is forced on any student then I see no reason to teach from both, the Bible, the Quran, and any other religious books.  The more informed students are the better]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2016/03/06/debunking-one-of-david-bartons-oldest-stories-thomas-jefferson-and-the-d-c-schools/#comment-103390">Warren Throckmorton</a>.</p>
<p>As long as no religion is forced on any student then I see no reason to teach from both, the Bible, the Quran, and any other religious books.  The more informed students are the better</p>
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		<title>
		By: Warren Throckmorton		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2016/03/06/debunking-one-of-david-bartons-oldest-stories-thomas-jefferson-and-the-d-c-schools/#comment-103390</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Warren Throckmorton]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Sep 2019 18:00:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=26694#comment-103390</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2016/03/06/debunking-one-of-david-bartons-oldest-stories-thomas-jefferson-and-the-d-c-schools/#comment-103388&quot;&gt;Deb  &lt;/a&gt;.

What David said. 

The Bible has been used in schools over the years but it was removed in many of them beginning long before the 1960s. Deb, how would you feel about the Quran or Book of Mormon being used in schools? Since the public schools can&#039;t take sides in religion, it would only be fair to use all holy books if one is used. In the 1840s, some schools eliminated the Bible because Catholics wanted the Douay version used and Protestants didn&#039;t want that. 

The point of the post was Barton&#039;s false history.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2016/03/06/debunking-one-of-david-bartons-oldest-stories-thomas-jefferson-and-the-d-c-schools/#comment-103388">Deb  </a>.</p>
<p>What David said. </p>
<p>The Bible has been used in schools over the years but it was removed in many of them beginning long before the 1960s. Deb, how would you feel about the Quran or Book of Mormon being used in schools? Since the public schools can&#8217;t take sides in religion, it would only be fair to use all holy books if one is used. In the 1840s, some schools eliminated the Bible because Catholics wanted the Douay version used and Protestants didn&#8217;t want that. </p>
<p>The point of the post was Barton&#8217;s false history.</p>
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		<title>
		By: David Rahrer		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2016/03/06/debunking-one-of-david-bartons-oldest-stories-thomas-jefferson-and-the-d-c-schools/#comment-103389</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Rahrer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Sep 2019 13:03:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=26694#comment-103389</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2016/03/06/debunking-one-of-david-bartons-oldest-stories-thomas-jefferson-and-the-d-c-schools/#comment-103388&quot;&gt;Deb  &lt;/a&gt;.

That they may have been used in a school somewhere does not excuse Barton&#039;s inaccurate telling of history. Aside from the First Amendment issues, do you really think the Bible and a hymnal are the best way to teach a child to read? I don&#039;t think either was designed for such a use.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2016/03/06/debunking-one-of-david-bartons-oldest-stories-thomas-jefferson-and-the-d-c-schools/#comment-103388">Deb  </a>.</p>
<p>That they may have been used in a school somewhere does not excuse Barton&#8217;s inaccurate telling of history. Aside from the First Amendment issues, do you really think the Bible and a hymnal are the best way to teach a child to read? I don&#8217;t think either was designed for such a use.</p>
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