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	Comments on: Nick Cummings USA Today Article on Reorientation Therapy	</title>
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	<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2013/07/31/nick-cummings-usa-today-article-on-reorientation-therapy/</link>
	<description>A [retired] college psychology professor&#039;s observations about public policy, mental health, sexual identity, and religious issues</description>
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		<title>
		By: Tom Van Dyke		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2013/07/31/nick-cummings-usa-today-article-on-reorientation-therapy/#comment-94607</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom Van Dyke]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 21:46:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=14983#comment-94607</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2013/07/31/nick-cummings-usa-today-article-on-reorientation-therapy/#comment-94163&quot;&gt;William&lt;/a&gt;.

&lt;i&gt;even if for a small minority of people sexual response in this respect may be malleable, for the vast majority of people it is not.&lt;/i&gt;
&quot;Therapy&quot; seems ineffective, true, after they&#039;re grown up, &quot;habituated.&quot;  That was acknowledged in the first sentence, indeed it was the jumpoff point.
&lt;i&gt;As I have already pointed out, while homosexual experimentation is not at all uncommon in adolescence, most of those who engage in it end up with a permanent heterosexual orientation. &lt;/i&gt;
As high as 99%, by some estimates*.  But that doesn&#039;t answer the question &quot;Does encouraging youngsters to experiment sexually leave some of them with sexual responses/attractions that they consider unwanted/harmful when they reach adulthood?&quot;
[And of course we haven&#039;t touched on &lt;i&gt;unwanted&lt;/i&gt; sexual contact, even male-female--iincest, sexual molestation by elders, etc.--but the psychosexual response mechanism might be the same, that is, &quot;habituation.&quot;]
*http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1314720/Only-1-100-Britons-gay-despite-myth-71-say-Christian.html
&lt;blockquote&gt;The first ever official count of the gay population has found that only one in 100 adults is homosexual.
The figure explodes the assumption  -  long promoted by social experts and lobbyists  -  that the number is up to ten times higher than this at one in ten.
...
The Office for National Statistics said 1.3 per cent of men are gay and 0.6 per cent of women are lesbian.
Tying the knot: Chris Bryant MP, right, and Jared Cranney are among the 1.3% of men who are gay. ONS figures explode the myth that one in ten are homosexual
Another 0.5 per cent consider themselves bisexual, according to the figures gathered from questions put to nearly 250,000 - the biggest survey possible outside a full national census.
This means that, in total, around 1.5 per cent of the population is either homosexual or bisexual.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
As we see by the large disparity of estimates about how widespread homosexuality even is, there is still so much we don&#039;t know.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2013/07/31/nick-cummings-usa-today-article-on-reorientation-therapy/#comment-94163">William</a>.</p>
<p><i>even if for a small minority of people sexual response in this respect may be malleable, for the vast majority of people it is not.</i><br />
&#8220;Therapy&#8221; seems ineffective, true, after they&#8217;re grown up, &#8220;habituated.&#8221;  That was acknowledged in the first sentence, indeed it was the jumpoff point.<br />
<i>As I have already pointed out, while homosexual experimentation is not at all uncommon in adolescence, most of those who engage in it end up with a permanent heterosexual orientation. </i><br />
As high as 99%, by some estimates*.  But that doesn&#8217;t answer the question &#8220;Does encouraging youngsters to experiment sexually leave some of them with sexual responses/attractions that they consider unwanted/harmful when they reach adulthood?&#8221;<br />
[And of course we haven&#8217;t touched on <i>unwanted</i> sexual contact, even male-female&#8211;iincest, sexual molestation by elders, etc.&#8211;but the psychosexual response mechanism might be the same, that is, &#8220;habituation.&#8221;]<br />
*http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1314720/Only-1-100-Britons-gay-despite-myth-71-say-Christian.html</p>
<blockquote><p>The first ever official count of the gay population has found that only one in 100 adults is homosexual.<br />
The figure explodes the assumption  &#8211;  long promoted by social experts and lobbyists  &#8211;  that the number is up to ten times higher than this at one in ten.<br />
&#8230;<br />
The Office for National Statistics said 1.3 per cent of men are gay and 0.6 per cent of women are lesbian.<br />
Tying the knot: Chris Bryant MP, right, and Jared Cranney are among the 1.3% of men who are gay. ONS figures explode the myth that one in ten are homosexual<br />
Another 0.5 per cent consider themselves bisexual, according to the figures gathered from questions put to nearly 250,000 &#8211; the biggest survey possible outside a full national census.<br />
This means that, in total, around 1.5 per cent of the population is either homosexual or bisexual.
</p></blockquote>
<p>As we see by the large disparity of estimates about how widespread homosexuality even is, there is still so much we don&#8217;t know.</p>
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		<title>
		By: David		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2013/07/31/nick-cummings-usa-today-article-on-reorientation-therapy/#comment-94603</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 21:46:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=14983#comment-94603</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2013/07/31/nick-cummings-usa-today-article-on-reorientation-therapy/#comment-85485&quot;&gt;ken&lt;/a&gt;.

&quot;Just because the information hasn&#039;t been made publically available doesn&#039;t mean it isn&#039;t data . . .&quot;
Cummings unsubstantiated description of his success in converting homosexuals is a claim.  The data, if it exists, must be produced to support the claim.  If he doesn&#039;t produce the data, the claim fails.  That is how science works.  You don&#039;t get to make a claim and then assert that supporting data exists but you won&#039;t show it to anyone.  That data may not say what Cummings says that it says or it may be unreliable for some other reason or it may not exist at all.
Also, if I have misinterpreted anything Dr. Throckmorton has written, he might take a moment to clarify.  He might take a second moment to respond to my query about the data.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2013/07/31/nick-cummings-usa-today-article-on-reorientation-therapy/#comment-85485">ken</a>.</p>
<p>&#8220;Just because the information hasn&#8217;t been made publically available doesn&#8217;t mean it isn&#8217;t data . . .&#8221;<br />
Cummings unsubstantiated description of his success in converting homosexuals is a claim.  The data, if it exists, must be produced to support the claim.  If he doesn&#8217;t produce the data, the claim fails.  That is how science works.  You don&#8217;t get to make a claim and then assert that supporting data exists but you won&#8217;t show it to anyone.  That data may not say what Cummings says that it says or it may be unreliable for some other reason or it may not exist at all.<br />
Also, if I have misinterpreted anything Dr. Throckmorton has written, he might take a moment to clarify.  He might take a second moment to respond to my query about the data.</p>
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		<title>
		By: William		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2013/07/31/nick-cummings-usa-today-article-on-reorientation-therapy/#comment-94163</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[William]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 21:14:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=14983#comment-94163</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2013/07/31/nick-cummings-usa-today-article-on-reorientation-therapy/#comment-93648&quot;&gt;Tom Van Dyke&lt;/a&gt;.

Can sexual response be habituated?
It depends on what kind of sexual response you mean. If we are talking about sexual response to blondes, brunettes, slim people, chubby people, dark-eyed people, and that kind of thing, then yes, very possibly. I think that people&#039;s sexual tastes in this respect do often change. The kind of person you fancy when you&#039;re 15 may very well not be at all the kind of person you fancy when you&#039;re 35.
But if we are talking about sexual response to people of the other sex, of the same sex, or of both &#8211; which is what you obviously mean here &#8211; the facts of everyday experience clearly indicate that, even if for a small minority of people sexual response in this respect may be malleable, for the vast majority of people it is not. As I have already pointed out, while homosexual experimentation is not at all uncommon in adolescence, most of those who engage in it end up with a permanent heterosexual orientation. People, whether heterosexual or homosexual, who abstain altogether from sexual activity for years do not normally lose their sexual response. That&#039;s why you have Catholic priests who have been celibate for decades suddenly jacking the whole thing in and shacking up with a woman, or with another guy, as the case may be. Warren has previously noted that research into mixed orientation marriages indicates that on the whole, homosexual men, after years in these marriages with women, are just as homosexual in their attractions and fantasies as they ever were, if not more so. What price habituated sexual response?
I don&#039;t personally know of anyone who doesn&#039;t want the question asked. It does sound to me, however, as though there is at least one person who doesn&#039;t want it answered with any other answer than &quot;yes&quot;, irrespective of the evidence, and who finds the &quot;wrong&quot; answer (i.e. &quot;no&quot;) quite a threat &#8211; to something or other.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2013/07/31/nick-cummings-usa-today-article-on-reorientation-therapy/#comment-93648">Tom Van Dyke</a>.</p>
<p>Can sexual response be habituated?<br />
It depends on what kind of sexual response you mean. If we are talking about sexual response to blondes, brunettes, slim people, chubby people, dark-eyed people, and that kind of thing, then yes, very possibly. I think that people&#8217;s sexual tastes in this respect do often change. The kind of person you fancy when you&#8217;re 15 may very well not be at all the kind of person you fancy when you&#8217;re 35.<br />
But if we are talking about sexual response to people of the other sex, of the same sex, or of both &#8211; which is what you obviously mean here &#8211; the facts of everyday experience clearly indicate that, even if for a small minority of people sexual response in this respect may be malleable, for the vast majority of people it is not. As I have already pointed out, while homosexual experimentation is not at all uncommon in adolescence, most of those who engage in it end up with a permanent heterosexual orientation. People, whether heterosexual or homosexual, who abstain altogether from sexual activity for years do not normally lose their sexual response. That&#8217;s why you have Catholic priests who have been celibate for decades suddenly jacking the whole thing in and shacking up with a woman, or with another guy, as the case may be. Warren has previously noted that research into mixed orientation marriages indicates that on the whole, homosexual men, after years in these marriages with women, are just as homosexual in their attractions and fantasies as they ever were, if not more so. What price habituated sexual response?<br />
I don&#8217;t personally know of anyone who doesn&#8217;t want the question asked. It does sound to me, however, as though there is at least one person who doesn&#8217;t want it answered with any other answer than &#8220;yes&#8221;, irrespective of the evidence, and who finds the &#8220;wrong&#8221; answer (i.e. &#8220;no&#8221;) quite a threat &#8211; to something or other.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tom Van Dyke		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2013/07/31/nick-cummings-usa-today-article-on-reorientation-therapy/#comment-93648</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom Van Dyke]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 20:56:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=14983#comment-93648</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2013/07/31/nick-cummings-usa-today-article-on-reorientation-therapy/#comment-91682&quot;&gt;William&lt;/a&gt;.

They are indeed conjectures, William, but they are not unreasonable.  Can sexual response be habituated, or is it ultimately inevitable despite our experiences/experimentations?
There are those who don&#039;t want that question asked, let alone answered.  The &quot;wrong&quot; answer would be quite a threat.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2013/07/31/nick-cummings-usa-today-article-on-reorientation-therapy/#comment-91682">William</a>.</p>
<p>They are indeed conjectures, William, but they are not unreasonable.  Can sexual response be habituated, or is it ultimately inevitable despite our experiences/experimentations?<br />
There are those who don&#8217;t want that question asked, let alone answered.  The &#8220;wrong&#8221; answer would be quite a threat.</p>
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		<title>
		By: ken		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2013/07/31/nick-cummings-usa-today-article-on-reorientation-therapy/#comment-91969</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ken]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 20:09:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=14983#comment-91969</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2013/07/31/nick-cummings-usa-today-article-on-reorientation-therapy/#comment-85488&quot;&gt;David&lt;/a&gt;.

&quot;Neither Cummings claim nor my Venusian unicorn colony claim are the basis for forming public policy, as Cummings urges in his USA Today piece.&quot;
I agree.   I doubt anyone on this thread would disagree.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2013/07/31/nick-cummings-usa-today-article-on-reorientation-therapy/#comment-85488">David</a>.</p>
<p>&#8220;Neither Cummings claim nor my Venusian unicorn colony claim are the basis for forming public policy, as Cummings urges in his USA Today piece.&#8221;<br />
I agree.   I doubt anyone on this thread would disagree.</p>
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