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	<title>
	Comments on: World&#039;s David Barton Coverage: What Will Evangelicals Do?	</title>
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	<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2013/02/18/worlds-david-barton-coverage-what-will-evangelicals-do/</link>
	<description>A [retired] college psychology professor&#039;s observations about public policy, mental health, sexual identity, and religious issues</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 20:13:25 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Gregory J. Rosmaita		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2013/02/18/worlds-david-barton-coverage-what-will-evangelicals-do/#comment-92231</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gregory J. Rosmaita]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 20:13:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=14062#comment-92231</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@tom - ANY sexual relation with a minor is an abuse of power, clear and simple...  any claim that homosexuality is related to child molestation or abuse of minors of either sex is a well-debunked fallacy... that you would excuse actions based on &quot;gradations&quot; of age is inexcusable and abhorrent by any standard, and i am basing my revulsion not on any religious or philosophic grounds, but on purely humanistic grounds...  15 to 17 year-olds are not &quot;jailbait&quot; -- they are minors, and the technical distinction between &quot;pedophillia&quot; and &quot;pederasty&quot; means nothing to the victim of abuse/rape...  if you can mitigate abuse because a child is 9 or 13 or 17 you are not only delusional, you have no moral compass of any kind whatsoever, and have definitively disqualified yourself from ever being taken seriously on any subject whatsoever...
PS: i&#039;m not surprised you should cite scalia in a subsequent post -- his contempt for the law and his willingness to make law from the bench based not on judicial precedent, but rather on rank prejudice, is fed by an ignorance equal to yours, as evinced by such &quot;enlightened&quot; statements delivered from the bench of the supreme court as:
Romer v. Evans, 1996: &quot;But I had thought that one could consider certain conduct reprehensible&#8212;murder, for example, or polygamy, or cruelty to animals&#8212;and could exhibit even &#039;animus&#039; toward such conduct. Surely that is the only sort of &#039;animus&#039; at issue here: moral disapproval of homosexual conduct&#8230;.&quot;
Lawrence v. Texas, 2003: &quot;The Texas statute undeniably seeks to further the belief of its citizens that certain forms of sexual behavior are &quot;immoral and unacceptable,&quot; Bowers, supra, at 196&#8212;the same interest furthered by criminal laws against fornication, bigamy, adultery, adult incest, bestiality, and obscenity&#8230;. Even if the Texas law does deny equal protection to &quot;homosexuals as a class,&quot; that denial still does not need to be justified by anything more than a rational basis, which our cases show is satisfied by the enforcement of traditional notions of sexual morality.&quot;
and THAT is the man who is constantly upheld by the right as the intellectual guiding light of conservative jurisprudence, constitutional and judicial &quot;restraint&quot;, and the model of a public servant whose work is &quot;informed&quot; by his &quot;deep religious convictions&quot;...  barton may be the symptom -- scalia is the disease...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@tom &#8211; ANY sexual relation with a minor is an abuse of power, clear and simple&#8230;  any claim that homosexuality is related to child molestation or abuse of minors of either sex is a well-debunked fallacy&#8230; that you would excuse actions based on &#8220;gradations&#8221; of age is inexcusable and abhorrent by any standard, and i am basing my revulsion not on any religious or philosophic grounds, but on purely humanistic grounds&#8230;  15 to 17 year-olds are not &#8220;jailbait&#8221; &#8212; they are minors, and the technical distinction between &#8220;pedophillia&#8221; and &#8220;pederasty&#8221; means nothing to the victim of abuse/rape&#8230;  if you can mitigate abuse because a child is 9 or 13 or 17 you are not only delusional, you have no moral compass of any kind whatsoever, and have definitively disqualified yourself from ever being taken seriously on any subject whatsoever&#8230;<br />
PS: i&#8217;m not surprised you should cite scalia in a subsequent post &#8212; his contempt for the law and his willingness to make law from the bench based not on judicial precedent, but rather on rank prejudice, is fed by an ignorance equal to yours, as evinced by such &#8220;enlightened&#8221; statements delivered from the bench of the supreme court as:<br />
Romer v. Evans, 1996: &#8220;But I had thought that one could consider certain conduct reprehensible&#8212;murder, for example, or polygamy, or cruelty to animals&#8212;and could exhibit even &#8216;animus&#8217; toward such conduct. Surely that is the only sort of &#8216;animus&#8217; at issue here: moral disapproval of homosexual conduct&#8230;.&#8221;<br />
Lawrence v. Texas, 2003: &#8220;The Texas statute undeniably seeks to further the belief of its citizens that certain forms of sexual behavior are &#8220;immoral and unacceptable,&#8221; Bowers, supra, at 196&#8212;the same interest furthered by criminal laws against fornication, bigamy, adultery, adult incest, bestiality, and obscenity&#8230;. Even if the Texas law does deny equal protection to &#8220;homosexuals as a class,&#8221; that denial still does not need to be justified by anything more than a rational basis, which our cases show is satisfied by the enforcement of traditional notions of sexual morality.&#8221;<br />
and THAT is the man who is constantly upheld by the right as the intellectual guiding light of conservative jurisprudence, constitutional and judicial &#8220;restraint&#8221;, and the model of a public servant whose work is &#8220;informed&#8221; by his &#8220;deep religious convictions&#8221;&#8230;  barton may be the symptom &#8212; scalia is the disease&#8230;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tom Van Dyke		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2013/02/18/worlds-david-barton-coverage-what-will-evangelicals-do/#comment-92106</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom Van Dyke]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 20:11:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=14062#comment-92106</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Despite the social sciences&#039; claim to have the psycho-sexual matrix puzzled out, we don&#039;t.  What I can say is that there was indeed a &quot;lavender mafia*&quot; among the Catholic clergy that kept each other&#039;s secrets.  The true story of the cycle of abuse and cover-up is not yet known--or understood by the Church itself, really.
As for African culture&#039;s own taboos against homosexual conduct meeting Catholicism&#039;s**, I can only note that religious tolerance and multi-culturalism hit the skids damn quick when the wrong ox is gored.
________
*http://www.newoxfordreview.org/dossier.jsp?did=dossier-lavender-mafia
**The more urbane Church of England&#039;s, in conflict.
http://global.christianpost.com/news/african-anglicans-say-gay-bishops-affirmation-shatters-hopes-of-reconciliation-88038/]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Despite the social sciences&#8217; claim to have the psycho-sexual matrix puzzled out, we don&#8217;t.  What I can say is that there was indeed a &#8220;lavender mafia*&#8221; among the Catholic clergy that kept each other&#8217;s secrets.  The true story of the cycle of abuse and cover-up is not yet known&#8211;or understood by the Church itself, really.<br />
As for African culture&#8217;s own taboos against homosexual conduct meeting Catholicism&#8217;s**, I can only note that religious tolerance and multi-culturalism hit the skids damn quick when the wrong ox is gored.<br />
________<br />
*http://www.newoxfordreview.org/dossier.jsp?did=dossier-lavender-mafia<br />
**The more urbane Church of England&#8217;s, in conflict.<br />
<a href="http://global.christianpost.com/news/african-anglicans-say-gay-bishops-affirmation-shatters-hopes-of-reconciliation-88038/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://global.christianpost.com/news/african-anglicans-say-gay-bishops-affirmation-shatters-hopes-of-reconciliation-88038/</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Richard Willmer		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2013/02/18/worlds-david-barton-coverage-what-will-evangelicals-do/#comment-92103</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Willmer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 20:11:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=14062#comment-92103</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The idea that unjustly discriminatory penal laws against gays is &#039;necessary for a society&#039;s survival&#039; is a pretty tenuous one.  In the Siwa Oasis (in Africa), there has been gay marriage (which the British - God bless their little jack boots - tried unsuccessfully to stop) for centuries, and it would appear that the Siwans have done &#039;very nicely thank you&#039; for as long as anyone can remember. (I&#039;ve been there, by the way - do go ... it&#039;s a magical place, and even the straights are nice!!!  Little joke! :-) )
You may well be correct about the &#039;blurring of distinctions&#039; when it comes to the age of victims of non-consensual (in the legal sense) sex.  However, as someone who has a professional &#039;duty of care&#039; for young people aged 16 to 18, I am very mindful of the (entirely correct, in my view) idea that &#039;lop-sided&#039; relationships between a young person and an &#039;authority figure&#039; can be very damaging to the young person involved.
Do not make the mistake of suggesting some kind of a &#039;blanket characterization&#039; of those who believe in a &#039;fair deal&#039; for gay people as &#039;out-an-out libertarians&#039;.  This is not the reality.
I agree that it is possible that Turkson may not be entirely clear in his own mind when it comes to what he is saying.  Well now, that just makes his outburst all the less appropriate.
I am not proposing a clear &#039;explanatory thesis&#039; for what went on regarding these abuse cases; I am simply opposing Turkson&#039;s all-too-obvious &#039;subtext&#039;.  It represents IMO a dangerous diversion from the real issues.
On &#039;Africa&#039;: is the apparent recent upsurge in homophobia bringing joy and prosperity to (straight) Africans?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The idea that unjustly discriminatory penal laws against gays is &#8216;necessary for a society&#8217;s survival&#8217; is a pretty tenuous one.  In the Siwa Oasis (in Africa), there has been gay marriage (which the British &#8211; God bless their little jack boots &#8211; tried unsuccessfully to stop) for centuries, and it would appear that the Siwans have done &#8216;very nicely thank you&#8217; for as long as anyone can remember. (I&#8217;ve been there, by the way &#8211; do go &#8230; it&#8217;s a magical place, and even the straights are nice!!!  Little joke! 🙂 )<br />
You may well be correct about the &#8216;blurring of distinctions&#8217; when it comes to the age of victims of non-consensual (in the legal sense) sex.  However, as someone who has a professional &#8216;duty of care&#8217; for young people aged 16 to 18, I am very mindful of the (entirely correct, in my view) idea that &#8216;lop-sided&#8217; relationships between a young person and an &#8216;authority figure&#8217; can be very damaging to the young person involved.<br />
Do not make the mistake of suggesting some kind of a &#8216;blanket characterization&#8217; of those who believe in a &#8216;fair deal&#8217; for gay people as &#8216;out-an-out libertarians&#8217;.  This is not the reality.<br />
I agree that it is possible that Turkson may not be entirely clear in his own mind when it comes to what he is saying.  Well now, that just makes his outburst all the less appropriate.<br />
I am not proposing a clear &#8216;explanatory thesis&#8217; for what went on regarding these abuse cases; I am simply opposing Turkson&#8217;s all-too-obvious &#8216;subtext&#8217;.  It represents IMO a dangerous diversion from the real issues.<br />
On &#8216;Africa&#8217;: is the apparent recent upsurge in homophobia bringing joy and prosperity to (straight) Africans?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Richard Willmer		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2013/02/18/worlds-david-barton-coverage-what-will-evangelicals-do/#comment-92095</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Willmer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 20:11:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=14062#comment-92095</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Zoe also mentions the Catholic Church, and we should not be unaware of the problems there, which were so clearly shown by Turkson&#039;s anti-gay outburst last week: http://newsone.com/2241429/peter-turkson-catholic-pope/
Thankfully it seems that at least the English and Welsh bishops aren&#039;t buying Turkson&#039;s &#039;thesis&#039;.  I suspect (and hope) that many other bishops will also know better than to confuse &#039;sexuality&#039; with the &#039;power issues&#039; that fuel the sexual abuse of children.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Zoe also mentions the Catholic Church, and we should not be unaware of the problems there, which were so clearly shown by Turkson&#8217;s anti-gay outburst last week: <a href="http://newsone.com/2241429/peter-turkson-catholic-pope/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://newsone.com/2241429/peter-turkson-catholic-pope/</a><br />
Thankfully it seems that at least the English and Welsh bishops aren&#8217;t buying Turkson&#8217;s &#8216;thesis&#8217;.  I suspect (and hope) that many other bishops will also know better than to confuse &#8216;sexuality&#8217; with the &#8216;power issues&#8217; that fuel the sexual abuse of children.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tom Van Dyke		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2013/02/18/worlds-david-barton-coverage-what-will-evangelicals-do/#comment-92040</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom Van Dyke]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 20:10:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=14062#comment-92040</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Not one word about the persecution of Christians in Nigeria.  Fascinating, Captain.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not one word about the persecution of Christians in Nigeria.  Fascinating, Captain.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Richard Willmer		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2013/02/18/worlds-david-barton-coverage-what-will-evangelicals-do/#comment-92045</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Willmer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 20:10:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=14062#comment-92045</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Persecution of Christians in Nigeria notwithstanding, Zoe&#039;s point still holds: after all, it is those of another religion that are conducting the persecution, not &#039;secular leftists&#039; (who, if they are aware of it, would probably find it abhorrent).
I was at a regional C of E synod (of which I happen to be a member) two weeks ago; one of the matters that concerned us was the problem of &#039;religion&#039; leading to the surrender of true human values and of intellectual integrity.  The situation is worrying, and some of us feel distinctly &#039;squeezed&#039; between two tendencies (&#039;mindless/heartless religion&#039; and &#039;ideological secularism&#039;) with neither of which we can agree.  Which &#039;tendency&#039; poses the greater &#039;threat&#039;?  IMO it is &#039;mindless/heartless religion&#039; ... so I&#039;ll aim my (non-violent) fire in that direction for now!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Persecution of Christians in Nigeria notwithstanding, Zoe&#8217;s point still holds: after all, it is those of another religion that are conducting the persecution, not &#8216;secular leftists&#8217; (who, if they are aware of it, would probably find it abhorrent).<br />
I was at a regional C of E synod (of which I happen to be a member) two weeks ago; one of the matters that concerned us was the problem of &#8216;religion&#8217; leading to the surrender of true human values and of intellectual integrity.  The situation is worrying, and some of us feel distinctly &#8216;squeezed&#8217; between two tendencies (&#8216;mindless/heartless religion&#8217; and &#8216;ideological secularism&#8217;) with neither of which we can agree.  Which &#8216;tendency&#8217; poses the greater &#8216;threat&#8217;?  IMO it is &#8216;mindless/heartless religion&#8217; &#8230; so I&#8217;ll aim my (non-violent) fire in that direction for now!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Zoe Brain		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2013/02/18/worlds-david-barton-coverage-what-will-evangelicals-do/#comment-92042</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zoe Brain]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 20:10:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=14062#comment-92042</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Warren - thanks to you, and others I know, for being you.
It&#039;s getting increasingly difficult not to see Religion as inherently evil. To give in to prejudice. I need your example to help me not fall into that trap.
I&#039;m sure there are many of the more &quot;My Religion, Right or Wrong&quot; types who  have let themselves be corrupted that way, seeing Secularism as inherently evil. They do horrible, cruel things, not because they&#039;re bad people, but because they have an overdeveloped thirst for the good. Rather like me, in fact.
I see that SteppingStones Nigeria is now under fire for its &quot;attack on religion&quot;.
&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;Stepping Stones Nigeria does not believe that children can be &#039;witches&#039;. However, Stepping Stones Nigeria acknowledges the right of individuals to hold this belief on the condition that this does not lead to the abuse of child rights as outlined in the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child (UNCRC)&quot;.&lt;/blockquote&gt;It&#039;s not just Freedom of Belief that&#039;s now being demanded by Traditional Religion - it&#039;s Freedom of Action, and Freedom from secular constraint. Hence Uganda. Hence the Catholic Paedophilia cover-up. Hence the many bills working their way through state legislatures in the US and elsewhere demanding religious exemptions from laws everyone else has to follow. &quot;Freedom of Conscience&quot; they call it, and I can see their point. Much evil has been done by persecuting believers.
It&#039;s when they demand the right to impose their beliefs on others that the border is crossed, and for Traditionalists, they consider the right to impose their beliefs on others an inherent part of their doctrine, Any constraint on that is an attack on their Religious Freedom.
With such a position, I see no end to the Culture War without Religion as a whole suffering a massive defeat, with many, many innocent casualties. Islam being first in the firing line.
I also see Evangelical Christianity in the US being colonised and &quot;converted&quot; to beliefs strongly held in Africa, where Christianity is waxing strong, not waning. When I was young, to have a US politician prayed over to protect them from witches would be seen as, well, insanity. Starting with Palin, it appears to becoming more mainstream. Not usual yet. Yet.
In a world where &quot;any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic&quot;, superstition is making a comeback.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Warren &#8211; thanks to you, and others I know, for being you.<br />
It&#8217;s getting increasingly difficult not to see Religion as inherently evil. To give in to prejudice. I need your example to help me not fall into that trap.<br />
I&#8217;m sure there are many of the more &#8220;My Religion, Right or Wrong&#8221; types who  have let themselves be corrupted that way, seeing Secularism as inherently evil. They do horrible, cruel things, not because they&#8217;re bad people, but because they have an overdeveloped thirst for the good. Rather like me, in fact.<br />
I see that SteppingStones Nigeria is now under fire for its &#8220;attack on religion&#8221;.</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;Stepping Stones Nigeria does not believe that children can be &#8216;witches&#8217;. However, Stepping Stones Nigeria acknowledges the right of individuals to hold this belief on the condition that this does not lead to the abuse of child rights as outlined in the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child (UNCRC)&#8221;.</p></blockquote>
<p>It&#8217;s not just Freedom of Belief that&#8217;s now being demanded by Traditional Religion &#8211; it&#8217;s Freedom of Action, and Freedom from secular constraint. Hence Uganda. Hence the Catholic Paedophilia cover-up. Hence the many bills working their way through state legislatures in the US and elsewhere demanding religious exemptions from laws everyone else has to follow. &#8220;Freedom of Conscience&#8221; they call it, and I can see their point. Much evil has been done by persecuting believers.<br />
It&#8217;s when they demand the right to impose their beliefs on others that the border is crossed, and for Traditionalists, they consider the right to impose their beliefs on others an inherent part of their doctrine, Any constraint on that is an attack on their Religious Freedom.<br />
With such a position, I see no end to the Culture War without Religion as a whole suffering a massive defeat, with many, many innocent casualties. Islam being first in the firing line.<br />
I also see Evangelical Christianity in the US being colonised and &#8220;converted&#8221; to beliefs strongly held in Africa, where Christianity is waxing strong, not waning. When I was young, to have a US politician prayed over to protect them from witches would be seen as, well, insanity. Starting with Palin, it appears to becoming more mainstream. Not usual yet. Yet.<br />
In a world where &#8220;any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic&#8221;, superstition is making a comeback.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Byron Harvey		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2013/02/18/worlds-david-barton-coverage-what-will-evangelicals-do/#comment-92032</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Byron Harvey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 20:10:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=14062#comment-92032</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The answer, it seems to me, is that &quot;evangelicals&quot; will do nothing or, perhaps more accurately, they will do everything.  Everything from circle the wagons and defend Barton because he&#039;s &quot;one of ours&quot;, to crying &quot;peace, peace&quot;, when there can be no &quot;peace&quot; as long as lies are tolerated, to the brave few who will side with truth over against the sycophantic impulses of many &quot;evangelicals&quot;, to those who are clueless, etc.  Factually, the term &quot;evangelical&quot; means less and less as the days and months go by, lumping together, as it supposedly does, everyone from that nutball Joel Osteen to John MacArthur, from lefty Jim Wallis to Moral Majoritarians, from &quot;open theists&quot; to 5-point Calvinists to...you get the point.
Amazingly, I guess for lack of a better term, I still call myself one.  But as Carl Trueman so rightly points out, in response to Mark Noll&#039;s yesteryear book &quot;The Scandal of the Evangelical Mind&quot;--which raised the idea that there was little left of evangelicalism that concerned itself with the mind--that the real scandal may be that there&#039;s nothing left of the &quot;evangelical&quot;, that when you&#039;ve said that word, you&#039;ve said almost nothing.  Which is the sum total of the response this World article will get, likely.
Anyway...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The answer, it seems to me, is that &#8220;evangelicals&#8221; will do nothing or, perhaps more accurately, they will do everything.  Everything from circle the wagons and defend Barton because he&#8217;s &#8220;one of ours&#8221;, to crying &#8220;peace, peace&#8221;, when there can be no &#8220;peace&#8221; as long as lies are tolerated, to the brave few who will side with truth over against the sycophantic impulses of many &#8220;evangelicals&#8221;, to those who are clueless, etc.  Factually, the term &#8220;evangelical&#8221; means less and less as the days and months go by, lumping together, as it supposedly does, everyone from that nutball Joel Osteen to John MacArthur, from lefty Jim Wallis to Moral Majoritarians, from &#8220;open theists&#8221; to 5-point Calvinists to&#8230;you get the point.<br />
Amazingly, I guess for lack of a better term, I still call myself one.  But as Carl Trueman so rightly points out, in response to Mark Noll&#8217;s yesteryear book &#8220;The Scandal of the Evangelical Mind&#8221;&#8211;which raised the idea that there was little left of evangelicalism that concerned itself with the mind&#8211;that the real scandal may be that there&#8217;s nothing left of the &#8220;evangelical&#8221;, that when you&#8217;ve said that word, you&#8217;ve said almost nothing.  Which is the sum total of the response this World article will get, likely.<br />
Anyway&#8230;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Kate		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2013/02/18/worlds-david-barton-coverage-what-will-evangelicals-do/#comment-92034</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kate]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 20:10:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=14062#comment-92034</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I first came across David Barton about ten years ago when my brother heard him speak at a home school convention. Personally I did not feel comfortable with his materials. I&#039;m not a historian but something just didn&#039;t feel right to me about what he was saying.
Thanks, Warren, for challenging him. I don&#039;t understand why Truth needs to be defended with lies. I can&#039;t understand why evangelical leaders would support and encourage someone who is lying. Just because the &#039;other side&#039; lies does not make it right. Just because  a &#039;minor&#039; point (unfortunately with David it&#039;s pretty much his whole point) is founded on lies, omissions, misstatements does not make it ok.
Truth does matter even minor truths. For years I have heard bandied about the statistic that 80% of evangelical youth lose their faith in college. How many of those lose their faith because something their church or their parents or a respected Christian leader said was true, turns out not to be true? If a truth that can be tested turns out to false how are we to rest secure that those truths in the Bible which aren&#039;t testable are true?
45 years ago I lost my faith while attending a Christian college because I learned that things my church and family had taught me as truth, were not, in fact truth. These truths were minor truths; however, they were the rocks that started the avalanche of me questioning any of the truths that I had been taught. It took me twenty years before I came back to Christianity.
Truth matters. Testable lies/omissions/purposeful misrepresentations like those promulgated by Barton or by creation scientists or by people telling LGBTQ people that their orientation is a choice and it can easily be changed by following these simple steps can cause the faith of our children to stumble. They also cause people in the culture to look at Christians and Christianity as a religion of simpletons.
Thanks for standing up to those who lie about history and sexuality. We need more people willing to challenge those who would sully the name of Christ by persistently distorting truth.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I first came across David Barton about ten years ago when my brother heard him speak at a home school convention. Personally I did not feel comfortable with his materials. I&#8217;m not a historian but something just didn&#8217;t feel right to me about what he was saying.<br />
Thanks, Warren, for challenging him. I don&#8217;t understand why Truth needs to be defended with lies. I can&#8217;t understand why evangelical leaders would support and encourage someone who is lying. Just because the &#8216;other side&#8217; lies does not make it right. Just because  a &#8216;minor&#8217; point (unfortunately with David it&#8217;s pretty much his whole point) is founded on lies, omissions, misstatements does not make it ok.<br />
Truth does matter even minor truths. For years I have heard bandied about the statistic that 80% of evangelical youth lose their faith in college. How many of those lose their faith because something their church or their parents or a respected Christian leader said was true, turns out not to be true? If a truth that can be tested turns out to false how are we to rest secure that those truths in the Bible which aren&#8217;t testable are true?<br />
45 years ago I lost my faith while attending a Christian college because I learned that things my church and family had taught me as truth, were not, in fact truth. These truths were minor truths; however, they were the rocks that started the avalanche of me questioning any of the truths that I had been taught. It took me twenty years before I came back to Christianity.<br />
Truth matters. Testable lies/omissions/purposeful misrepresentations like those promulgated by Barton or by creation scientists or by people telling LGBTQ people that their orientation is a choice and it can easily be changed by following these simple steps can cause the faith of our children to stumble. They also cause people in the culture to look at Christians and Christianity as a religion of simpletons.<br />
Thanks for standing up to those who lie about history and sexuality. We need more people willing to challenge those who would sully the name of Christ by persistently distorting truth.</p>
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		By: Zoe Brain		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2013/02/18/worlds-david-barton-coverage-what-will-evangelicals-do/#comment-92036</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zoe Brain]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 20:10:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=14062#comment-92036</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt; In private, some have argued to me that these matters are significant but that the left distorts the truth too so this is not important. A few evangelical leaders have written to take me to task for our book, saying it helps the secular left. They argue that the end justifies the means (accuracy is not important if your cause is right).&lt;/blockquote&gt;
See what I mean?
A lie that supports The Cause is to be propounded.
A truth that undermines The Cause is to be suppressed.
How many politically active Evangelicals are &lt;b&gt;not&lt;/b&gt; Culture Warriors? 20%? 10? Less?
Irrationality reigns. Not just in the US, not just in the Republican/Christianist or Christianist/Republican party, but in the Zeitgeist of the times. A longing for old fashioned Traditional values. In some places - Uganda comes to mind - the consequences can be deadly. New Guinea is the latest flashpoint.
&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;They took them to Siguyagu creek before releasing the wife, son and the other man. They took Ogono (deceased) to the village and interrogated him in a hastily convened court comprising four church pastors, a peace officer, and a village court chairman,&quot; the eyewitness, who declined to be identified in fear of his life, said.
He said at around 11am, the villagers led by a prominent village leader (named) interrogated Ogono, forcing him to admit to practicing sorcery.
The deceased&#039;s last words, according to the eyewitness, were: &quot;In the eyes of the leaders, only God knows, I am innocent.&quot;
The pastors are from the Four Square, Lutheran, Baptist and Seventh Day Adventist (SDA) churches.&lt;/blockquote&gt;Witchburning is making a comeback worldwide. And the pastors who might rein it in cannot, for the tenets of American Evangelical Christianity as practiced by missionaries involve belief in demons, witches evil spirits. It&#039;s the &quot;Secular Left&quot; who are opposing this, not them. It&#039;s the same in the Islamic world, the extremists are taking over. In Africa, where animism is still rife.... the Charismatics affirm that sorcery exists. &lt;blockquote&gt;Attackers collecting body parts of albinos for witchcraft have hacked off the hand of a seven-year old boy in Tanzania, the latest in a series of bloody assaults, officials said on Sunday.
&quot;The boy was attacked on Saturday by three people as he walked home with his four school friends,&quot; said Apolinary Macheta, the local government leader in Tanzania&#039;s southwestern Milepa district.
The boy, Mwigulu Magessa, is recovering in hospital, Macheta added.
The attack came just days after an albino mother of four had her arm chopped off by machete-wielding men, with police on Saturday saying they had arrested five men after discovering the decomposing limb hidden in a field.
In Tanzania, albinos are killed and dismembered due to a widespread belief that charms made from their body parts bring good fortune and prosperity.&lt;/blockquote&gt;It&#039;s even infected the Catholic church, which is taking an increasingly hard line on Intersex people in places like Australia.
&lt;blockquote&gt;Senator PRATT: So you would like to see, if religious exemptions were to continue, intersex status specifically taken out of those exemptions?
    Gina Wilson : Certainly. To allow anybody to discriminate against intersex people and to allow religious organisations to have an exemption from the law is no different to allowing a religious organisation to discriminate on the basis of colour of skin or a disability that you were born with.
    Senator BRANDIS: No, it is not, because there is an ethical difference.&lt;/blockquote&gt; Intersex people being inherently sinful, the spawn of Satan, the result of un-natural congress with Demons. Twice, the soon-to-be-ex-pope called them a &quot;threat to humanity&#039;s existence&quot;. Not that that was well publicised.
It&#039;s really difficult not to over-generalise here. But Religion as a whole, worldwide, is becoming inceasingly superstitious, increasingly assertive, and increasingly irrational. I don&#039;t know what&#039;s triggered this, but the pattern&#039;s pretty clear.
War has been declared on the&quot;Secular Left&quot;.. Not that they&#039;re particularly Leftist, they&#039;re just painted that way in order to Demonise them.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p> In private, some have argued to me that these matters are significant but that the left distorts the truth too so this is not important. A few evangelical leaders have written to take me to task for our book, saying it helps the secular left. They argue that the end justifies the means (accuracy is not important if your cause is right).</p></blockquote>
<p>See what I mean?<br />
A lie that supports The Cause is to be propounded.<br />
A truth that undermines The Cause is to be suppressed.<br />
How many politically active Evangelicals are <b>not</b> Culture Warriors? 20%? 10? Less?<br />
Irrationality reigns. Not just in the US, not just in the Republican/Christianist or Christianist/Republican party, but in the Zeitgeist of the times. A longing for old fashioned Traditional values. In some places &#8211; Uganda comes to mind &#8211; the consequences can be deadly. New Guinea is the latest flashpoint.</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;They took them to Siguyagu creek before releasing the wife, son and the other man. They took Ogono (deceased) to the village and interrogated him in a hastily convened court comprising four church pastors, a peace officer, and a village court chairman,&#8221; the eyewitness, who declined to be identified in fear of his life, said.<br />
He said at around 11am, the villagers led by a prominent village leader (named) interrogated Ogono, forcing him to admit to practicing sorcery.<br />
The deceased&#8217;s last words, according to the eyewitness, were: &#8220;In the eyes of the leaders, only God knows, I am innocent.&#8221;<br />
The pastors are from the Four Square, Lutheran, Baptist and Seventh Day Adventist (SDA) churches.</p></blockquote>
<p>Witchburning is making a comeback worldwide. And the pastors who might rein it in cannot, for the tenets of American Evangelical Christianity as practiced by missionaries involve belief in demons, witches evil spirits. It&#8217;s the &#8220;Secular Left&#8221; who are opposing this, not them. It&#8217;s the same in the Islamic world, the extremists are taking over. In Africa, where animism is still rife&#8230;. the Charismatics affirm that sorcery exists. </p>
<blockquote><p>Attackers collecting body parts of albinos for witchcraft have hacked off the hand of a seven-year old boy in Tanzania, the latest in a series of bloody assaults, officials said on Sunday.<br />
&#8220;The boy was attacked on Saturday by three people as he walked home with his four school friends,&#8221; said Apolinary Macheta, the local government leader in Tanzania&#8217;s southwestern Milepa district.<br />
The boy, Mwigulu Magessa, is recovering in hospital, Macheta added.<br />
The attack came just days after an albino mother of four had her arm chopped off by machete-wielding men, with police on Saturday saying they had arrested five men after discovering the decomposing limb hidden in a field.<br />
In Tanzania, albinos are killed and dismembered due to a widespread belief that charms made from their body parts bring good fortune and prosperity.</p></blockquote>
<p>It&#8217;s even infected the Catholic church, which is taking an increasingly hard line on Intersex people in places like Australia.</p>
<blockquote><p>Senator PRATT: So you would like to see, if religious exemptions were to continue, intersex status specifically taken out of those exemptions?<br />
    Gina Wilson : Certainly. To allow anybody to discriminate against intersex people and to allow religious organisations to have an exemption from the law is no different to allowing a religious organisation to discriminate on the basis of colour of skin or a disability that you were born with.<br />
    Senator BRANDIS: No, it is not, because there is an ethical difference.</p></blockquote>
<p> Intersex people being inherently sinful, the spawn of Satan, the result of un-natural congress with Demons. Twice, the soon-to-be-ex-pope called them a &#8220;threat to humanity&#8217;s existence&#8221;. Not that that was well publicised.<br />
It&#8217;s really difficult not to over-generalise here. But Religion as a whole, worldwide, is becoming inceasingly superstitious, increasingly assertive, and increasingly irrational. I don&#8217;t know what&#8217;s triggered this, but the pattern&#8217;s pretty clear.<br />
War has been declared on the&#8221;Secular Left&#8221;.. Not that they&#8217;re particularly Leftist, they&#8217;re just painted that way in order to Demonise them.</p>
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