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	Comments on: Matt Barber Invokes Jerry Sandusky to Mislead Public About SB 1172	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2013/01/05/matt-barber-invokes-jerry-sandusky-to-mislead-public-about-sb-1172/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2013/01/05/matt-barber-invokes-jerry-sandusky-to-mislead-public-about-sb-1172/</link>
	<description>A [retired] college psychology professor&#039;s observations about public policy, mental health, sexual identity, and religious issues</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 22:34:23 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Warren		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2013/01/05/matt-barber-invokes-jerry-sandusky-to-mislead-public-about-sb-1172/#comment-95022</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Warren]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 22:34:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=13893#comment-95022</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2013/01/05/matt-barber-invokes-jerry-sandusky-to-mislead-public-about-sb-1172/#comment-93193&quot;&gt;Teresa&lt;/a&gt;.

Teresa: All I mean is that having attractions to the same sex as a teen might not mean that one is essentially gay. Bisexual is a possibility. Situational factors, especially with some women, might lead to experiences of attraction. And there is some research that indicates sexually abused straight boys can experience SSA for a time. However, this experience is relatively easy to distinguish in practice from the boy who is SSA without precursor.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2013/01/05/matt-barber-invokes-jerry-sandusky-to-mislead-public-about-sb-1172/#comment-93193">Teresa</a>.</p>
<p>Teresa: All I mean is that having attractions to the same sex as a teen might not mean that one is essentially gay. Bisexual is a possibility. Situational factors, especially with some women, might lead to experiences of attraction. And there is some research that indicates sexually abused straight boys can experience SSA for a time. However, this experience is relatively easy to distinguish in practice from the boy who is SSA without precursor.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Warren		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2013/01/05/matt-barber-invokes-jerry-sandusky-to-mislead-public-about-sb-1172/#comment-94925</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Warren]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 22:21:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=13893#comment-94925</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2013/01/05/matt-barber-invokes-jerry-sandusky-to-mislead-public-about-sb-1172/#comment-93225&quot;&gt;Wayne Besen&lt;/a&gt;.

Ann - I appreciate your coming to my defense. However, Wayne has taken steps to remedy things and there are no hard feelings. I can certainly understand his opposition to my work at that time given my defense of approaches that I now understand better and therefore oppose vigorously.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2013/01/05/matt-barber-invokes-jerry-sandusky-to-mislead-public-about-sb-1172/#comment-93225">Wayne Besen</a>.</p>
<p>Ann &#8211; I appreciate your coming to my defense. However, Wayne has taken steps to remedy things and there are no hard feelings. I can certainly understand his opposition to my work at that time given my defense of approaches that I now understand better and therefore oppose vigorously.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Warren		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2013/01/05/matt-barber-invokes-jerry-sandusky-to-mislead-public-about-sb-1172/#comment-94576</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Warren]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 21:44:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=13893#comment-94576</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2013/01/05/matt-barber-invokes-jerry-sandusky-to-mislead-public-about-sb-1172/#comment-93124&quot;&gt;Patrocles&lt;/a&gt;.

Patrocles - It is fairly easy to decide what to do. Counselors are trained to help people with trauma and the trauma comes first, before questions or issues of orientation. If a counselor is treating abuse as an instrumental means of changing orientation, then they are making a significant clinical mistake. Orientation becomes clearer without any special interventions (using oranges, etc.) as the person matures.
A real problem in this discussion is to assume that a counselor should tell teen clients what their orientation is if the client isn&#039;t sure. I suspect some counselors do this on the affirming or non-affirming sides but I believe this is not necessary. On the other hand, if the client has determined their orientation, then it is not up to a counselor to talk him out of it.
In any case, it is a false claim that the CA law prevents recovery from sexual abuse, whether the victim has SSA or not.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2013/01/05/matt-barber-invokes-jerry-sandusky-to-mislead-public-about-sb-1172/#comment-93124">Patrocles</a>.</p>
<p>Patrocles &#8211; It is fairly easy to decide what to do. Counselors are trained to help people with trauma and the trauma comes first, before questions or issues of orientation. If a counselor is treating abuse as an instrumental means of changing orientation, then they are making a significant clinical mistake. Orientation becomes clearer without any special interventions (using oranges, etc.) as the person matures.<br />
A real problem in this discussion is to assume that a counselor should tell teen clients what their orientation is if the client isn&#8217;t sure. I suspect some counselors do this on the affirming or non-affirming sides but I believe this is not necessary. On the other hand, if the client has determined their orientation, then it is not up to a counselor to talk him out of it.<br />
In any case, it is a false claim that the CA law prevents recovery from sexual abuse, whether the victim has SSA or not.</p>
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		<title>
		By: David Blakeslee		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2013/01/05/matt-barber-invokes-jerry-sandusky-to-mislead-public-about-sb-1172/#comment-93338</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Blakeslee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 20:46:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=13893#comment-93338</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Very, very nice
&quot;However, in this particular case I happened to be wrong. Over time I have come to trust Dr. Throckmorton and respect his work. Thus, I regret and feel remorse over previous campaigns against him. I am sorry for getting it wrong in this instance and in some cases being unfair. And, as soon as I recognized my error I took immediate steps to correct my actions.&quot;
Also good
&quot;I can certainly understand his opposition to my work at that time given my defense of approaches that I now understand better and therefore oppose vigorously.&quot;
What an amazing and helpful journey Warren made.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very, very nice<br />
&#8220;However, in this particular case I happened to be wrong. Over time I have come to trust Dr. Throckmorton and respect his work. Thus, I regret and feel remorse over previous campaigns against him. I am sorry for getting it wrong in this instance and in some cases being unfair. And, as soon as I recognized my error I took immediate steps to correct my actions.&#8221;<br />
Also good<br />
&#8220;I can certainly understand his opposition to my work at that time given my defense of approaches that I now understand better and therefore oppose vigorously.&#8221;<br />
What an amazing and helpful journey Warren made.</p>
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		<title>
		By: ken		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2013/01/05/matt-barber-invokes-jerry-sandusky-to-mislead-public-about-sb-1172/#comment-93329</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ken]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 20:46:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=13893#comment-93329</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Patrocles says:
January 17, 2013 at 10:45 am
&quot;I&#039;d say that adopting a sexual identity means the same as accepting a sexual orientation.&quot;
You can also say &quot;the world is flat&quot;, &quot;the sun rises in the west&quot; and &quot;black is white&quot;.  Doesn&#039;t make it true.
Gay affirming therapy happens &lt;strong&gt;after&lt;/strong&gt; the client has established that he is gay.  It doesn&#039;t tell the client he is gay.
Likewise, a therapist can also help a client in determining what his orientation is, without telling the  client &quot;try to be straight&quot; or &quot;try to be gay&quot; .
&quot;If so, the gay affirmative therapist does eventually what Dr. Throckmorton denies.&quot;
No it doesn&#039;t.  Gay affirmative therapy helps &lt;strong&gt;&lt;em&gt;who are gay&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/strong&gt; accept that and deal with any emotional problems they may have because of their orientation. Rather than the NARTH approach of &quot;it is a terrible thing to be gay so we&#039;ll make you straight.&quot;
&quot;what&#039;s about a therapist who (after a more or less critical examination) assumes that the client only beleives to be gay? Will he really be protected by the law, if he encourages the client NOT to accept his believed gayness?&quot;
This makes no sense.   What do you mean by &quot;believed gayness&quot; or &quot;believes to be gay&quot;?  A good therapist will listen to what a client says about his attractions, behaviours and identity.   The therapist will explain what the various aspects of sexuality are and help the client understand what his orientation is.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Patrocles says:<br />
January 17, 2013 at 10:45 am<br />
&#8220;I&#8217;d say that adopting a sexual identity means the same as accepting a sexual orientation.&#8221;<br />
You can also say &#8220;the world is flat&#8221;, &#8220;the sun rises in the west&#8221; and &#8220;black is white&#8221;.  Doesn&#8217;t make it true.<br />
Gay affirming therapy happens <strong>after</strong> the client has established that he is gay.  It doesn&#8217;t tell the client he is gay.<br />
Likewise, a therapist can also help a client in determining what his orientation is, without telling the  client &#8220;try to be straight&#8221; or &#8220;try to be gay&#8221; .<br />
&#8220;If so, the gay affirmative therapist does eventually what Dr. Throckmorton denies.&#8221;<br />
No it doesn&#8217;t.  Gay affirmative therapy helps <strong><em>who are gay</em></strong> accept that and deal with any emotional problems they may have because of their orientation. Rather than the NARTH approach of &#8220;it is a terrible thing to be gay so we&#8217;ll make you straight.&#8221;<br />
&#8220;what&#8217;s about a therapist who (after a more or less critical examination) assumes that the client only beleives to be gay? Will he really be protected by the law, if he encourages the client NOT to accept his believed gayness?&#8221;<br />
This makes no sense.   What do you mean by &#8220;believed gayness&#8221; or &#8220;believes to be gay&#8221;?  A good therapist will listen to what a client says about his attractions, behaviours and identity.   The therapist will explain what the various aspects of sexuality are and help the client understand what his orientation is.</p>
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