Matt – Haldeman made that quote in 2000; not sure what he would say now.

However, your point is respected and if reparative therapists operated in accord with advanced informed consent, I would have little problem with them. The fact is that most of them don’t. They tell clients why they are gay and fail to inform them of studies which contradict their theories. They use techniques which are not mainstream and have evidence against them without informing the clients of this.

In part, I blame the Christian community for this. Instead of insisting on professionally validated treatments, Christians have bought into every crazy notion about homosexuality for decades. If it make gays look bad or sick, then they are all for it. Beat pillows and scream? Sure, if it links gay to repressed memories of child abuse. Grab oranges and say you are taking your balls back? Sure, that must be ok because gay males aren’t real men. Coerce clients to strip naked or use porn as a part of therapy? Sure, it sounds strange but the end surely justifies the means.

I don’t blame licensing boards and others when they go after these things. At best, they are questionable and more likely they are harmful and reflect the worst of those using the techniques.

Teresa: The OCD is the problem with these folks, usually men. They are straight men who might have a gay friend, or are called gay by someone or many other triggering events. Their OCD thinking process latches on to a worry and it grows from there. Some men talk themselves into trying gay sex and they never like it but they worry they don’t dislike it enough or the thought sticks with them that since they tried it they must have liked it (even though they didn’t). Treat the OCD and the preoccupations disappear. Some of the success stories are probably due to this phenomenon. I have worked with several men like this over the years.

It also may be that some OCD patients who have fixated on being gay are treated for their OCD and then they stop preoccupying about it. This is a surprising number of people who present for sexual reorientation.

Gosh, the things one learns from this Blog.

Warren, would the OCD fixation for some persons with same sex attraction be a result of non-acceptance of same sex attraction? Is this, again, another manifestation of internalized shame for being gay?

January 6, 2013 at 4:34 pm

“SB1077: is it a violation of the First Amendment? I think it may be a bridge too far, yes. Simply, for the impact it has on other clinicians in other areas. ”

What “other clinicians” in what “other areas” are you referring to? The law was specifically targeted at orientation change therapy. And the wording makes it very clear about that (despite the claims of the law’s opponents).

Well, the only “other ways” I know about come from parents disowning their children for being gay, and peers bullying their peers into suicide for being gay. All of these have to do with outside factors of non-acceptance, not inherent to being gay. And having never experienced parental rejection, nor been bullied for my orientation, I haven’t experienced these things.

But do tell, since you seem to know me better than I know myself.

“You can’t actually believe children at the youngest ages with their malleable, neural plasticity brains watching TV shows, movies that extol the wonderful life of gays, au contraire to much of reality, won’t be affected in some significant ways”

And what “reality” would this be? That being gay comes with an inherent misery caused from within, separate from the shame heaped upon them from religious and political external forces?

The reality is that, today more than ever, gays DO live happily married lives. They DO live lives free from misery about their orientation. And if a child should see that, What would be the harm? Do you SERIOUSLY think that a child seeing that some people are gay, AND perfectly happy, is harmful and will create more gay children? And, furthermore, what would be the harm, since they see that being gay isn’t an automatic ticket to desperation and suicide, but rather contingent on whether or not the people around you bully you or shame you into such things (and without any good reason)?

And for the record, I wouldn’t want to be straight given the choice. I love who I am, and I can’t imagine myself living in any other skin.

January 6, 2013 at 11:55 am

“The therapies represented, specifically Psychodrama is used to support the individuals overall healing and growth – NOT to change sexual orientation. ”

According to the JONAH lawsuit, orientation change is what this “therapy” is being used for.

Jeremy says:

January 6, 2013 at 10:29 pm

“I have experienced significant and lasting reduction of my Same-Sex Attraction. ”

I (nor anyone else here) has claimed you haven’t, nor has anyone claimed you personally haven’t benefited from therapy. However, ALL men naturally experience a decrease in sexual urges as they age. Which begs the question is your reduction in attraction the result of therapy or a naturally occurring event attributed to therapy or perhaps a naturally occurring event hastened by therapy or something else entirely?

Reparative Therapy was where I first heard anyone that my SSA was NOT my Fault. I of course had heard that from the “Gay Churches” and others who endorsed gay relationships, but their opinions were not convincing to me (even during the years when I was living that lifestyle). Dr. Nicolosi also did not assign blame to my parents or anyone else. He didn’t actually try to pinpoint any one particular cause. The focus from the beginning was on emotional healing and it was life-changing. EVERY aspect of my life began to improve and has continued to improve even though it’s been a year since my last therapy session.

I usually get angry emails from one or two people anytime I mention JiM or RT to anyone in Exodus or Courage. To them, it seems as though the need for therapy is insinuating something negative or that they have SSA because they “Mentally Ill.” I rarely mention it there because they seem so easily offended. I’ve realized though that I have an equal / opposite reaction when one of them launches an attacks on RT. The connotation is that I shouldn’t have needed RT or that as my parents’ use to believe: I had SSA because I was an “Evil person.”

I like to compare SSA/ homosexuality to other conditions (although I’m not trying to belittle anyone with other illnesses). The example I gave in Courage a while back is Epilepsy. For hundreds of years, People of all faiths believed (Incorrectly) that epilepsy was the result of Demonic Possession and they treated it accordingly: Exorcism and Burning at the Stake (If the exorcism didn’t work).

A few hundred years ago, it was discovered that Epilepsy was indeed a medical condition and not a Spiritual problem. The treatment suddenly changed. It still took another century or two before any effective medical treatments were developed. NOW, people with epilepsy (like my sister) are able to benefit from medications that enable them to enjoy a greater quality of life. It would not be “compassionate” to ban all medical treatments for Epilepsy on the premise that “Epileptics have been through enough. Stop trying to change them.” – Most people with epilepsy that I know are grateful that there are at some medications available to address their symptoms – even though there does not yet appear to be a cure.

Jeremy

While I stated my personal views that homosexuality is a disorder, I think it is important to note that most of the individuals and programs I have seen attacked here are more in line with some of YOUR views than mine or Dr. Nicolosi’s. You seem to assume that anyone who works with people who have SSA is attempting or promising to “cure” them or that they are calling it a “disease.” It is the same as Wayne Besen’s assumption than any church or organization that attempts to minister to the Spiritual needs of homosexually-oriented persons is attempting to “Pray Away the Gay.”

Teresa, I want to also apologize to you for my tone. My purpose in posting was to respond to the misinformation about SOCE and RT. I fully respect everyone who has chosen chastity and celibacy without therapy. Also, you are correct that I am the same Jeremy who posted here in the past.

StraightGrandmother: I didn’t mean to not respond to post. I hope you are doing well.

Ken: I have experienced significant and lasting reduction of my Same-Sex Attraction. I would say it is “cured” and that I’ll never have another SSA thought, but I am very happy with the results I have seen and I know many many others who would say the same. I also know men who experienced the exact same processes mentioned but chose later to go back into the gay lifestyle. They are also appalled at the misrepresentation and slander directed at JONAH and PCC. While they changed their minds about what they wanted for their own lives, they still feel that they benefited.

… and being gay an “unfortunate” aberration of some sort?

I’d more accurately describe gay as being a ‘challenging’ difference. I’ll add that I don’t think any str8 person would opt for being gay, if that were an option for them. And why wouldn’t they? I think it’s fairly obvious, why not.

Let me step here where angels fear to tread, and pick an analogy that is close enough:

It’s much like saying autism is an equal variant of being non-autistic. I would hazard a guess that no parent would want an autistic child. I can’t think that anyone who is non-autistic who would opt to be autistic. Autism brings some real mental giftedness, but that comes in a package that can make life very challenging.

And, yes, I know you’re going to say homosexuality is not a mental disorder, it’s not in the DSM; and, autism is. I say that’s really not the issue, because there are plenty of high-functioning persons on the autism-spectrum who manage to marry and have children, and have good jobs. I’d hazard a guess that a study of those parents would show they wouldn’t want a child of theirs to be autistic.

Children being around “cultural decay” has nothing to do with sexual orientation. Gay people have existed since Leave It To Beaver times, and beyond that. We’re not around because we’re exposed to hyper-sexualization. We’re around because… we’re around.

Emily, I can but disagree with your quote above. You can’t actually believe children at the youngest ages with their malleable, neural plasticity brains watching TV shows, movies that extol the wonderful life of gays, au contraire to much of reality, won’t be affected in some significant ways: ways we can’t even imagine. I consider that in many ways sexual abuse of minors … whether str8 or gay sexual behavior is being extolled.

None, of the things I’ve mentioned above have been scientifically studied, so it’s just my 2 cents … and, I’d like to think some old-fashioned common sense. And, it has little to do with whether SB1077 is a violation of the First Amendment.

I promise my grammar is normally better than this. I have two masters degrees, but for some reason when I type I sometimes miss words and I ended up hitting “Send” before proofreading. Ahhhh! (Gray Zone avoided) 😉

Jeremy