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	Comments on: Desert Stream Ministries Outlines Differences with Exodus	</title>
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	<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/08/06/desert-stream-ministries-outlines-differences-with-exodus/</link>
	<description>A [retired] college psychology professor&#039;s observations about public policy, mental health, sexual identity, and religious issues</description>
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		<title>
		By: Michael Bussee		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/08/06/desert-stream-ministries-outlines-differences-with-exodus/#comment-79095</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael Bussee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 18:07:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=11911#comment-79095</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;Being a good husband or good offering to the opposite gender can include a myriad of qualities other than sex.&quot;



True enough, Ann.  But when a man CAN&#039;T feel that sort of attraction to his wife -- and she senses it -- it can be very painful and destructive for both.  Both ending up feeling inadequate in some way.    I know from personal experience.  She deserved a heterosexual man.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Being a good husband or good offering to the opposite gender can include a myriad of qualities other than sex.&#8221;</p>
<p>True enough, Ann.  But when a man CAN&#8217;T feel that sort of attraction to his wife &#8212; and she senses it &#8212; it can be very painful and destructive for both.  Both ending up feeling inadequate in some way.    I know from personal experience.  She deserved a heterosexual man.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ann		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/08/06/desert-stream-ministries-outlines-differences-with-exodus/#comment-79094</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ann]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 18:07:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=11911#comment-79094</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Actually, as Christians we make of ourselves &quot;a good offering&quot; to Our Lord &#8230; in any way He sees as our best.



Teresa,



Awesome!  



When we can come to this level of understanding, and do it with a humble and authentic surrender, we can then have a lot of things to look forward to.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, as Christians we make of ourselves &#8220;a good offering&#8221; to Our Lord &#8230; in any way He sees as our best.</p>
<p>Teresa,</p>
<p>Awesome!  </p>
<p>When we can come to this level of understanding, and do it with a humble and authentic surrender, we can then have a lot of things to look forward to.</p>
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		<title>
		By: William		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/08/06/desert-stream-ministries-outlines-differences-with-exodus/#comment-79088</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[William]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 18:07:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=11911#comment-79088</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@ Teresa:



I think that this lot DO value celibacy, but as second best; in other words, something that should be accepted and welcomed on the principle of not making the perfect the enemy of the good. But I suspect that the ultimate aim, the ideal towards which they strive even if it may never be achieved in this world, is to have every gay/lesbian person sooner or later permanently shacked up with someone of the sex to which he/she has no sexual attraction.



@ Warren:



&quot;To me, this statement of faith elevates heterosexual compatibility over grace and redemption. It makes heterosexuality a measure of one&#039;s spiritual depth and relationship with God.&quot;



Perhaps this could be summed up as: &quot;Faith, hope and heterosexuality. And the greatest of these is heterosexuality.&quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Teresa:</p>
<p>I think that this lot DO value celibacy, but as second best; in other words, something that should be accepted and welcomed on the principle of not making the perfect the enemy of the good. But I suspect that the ultimate aim, the ideal towards which they strive even if it may never be achieved in this world, is to have every gay/lesbian person sooner or later permanently shacked up with someone of the sex to which he/she has no sexual attraction.</p>
<p>@ Warren:</p>
<p>&#8220;To me, this statement of faith elevates heterosexual compatibility over grace and redemption. It makes heterosexuality a measure of one&#8217;s spiritual depth and relationship with God.&#8221;</p>
<p>Perhaps this could be summed up as: &#8220;Faith, hope and heterosexuality. And the greatest of these is heterosexuality.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Warren		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/08/06/desert-stream-ministries-outlines-differences-with-exodus/#comment-79093</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Warren]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 18:07:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=11911#comment-79093</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[All - I was struck by the phrase &quot;good offering to the opposite gender&quot; too. I think people become unclear the farther away from the point of Christianity they get. Christianity is about the drama of redemption, not making sure every boy gets a girl. 



To me, this statement of faith elevates heterosexual compatibility over grace and redemption. It makes heterosexuality a measure of one&#039;s spiritual depth and relationship with God. 



This mindset once (and may still be in some quarters) permeated Exodus. I recall speaking at an ex-gay event where I talked about the research on sexual orientation change. I am sure it seemed discouraging to the crowd, many of whom would be at home in the new Restored Hope Network. One man asked the question: &quot;If a relationship with Christ can&#039;t change your orientation, then why would anyone want to be a Christian?&quot; I am pretty sure he meant, why would a SSA person want to be a Christian, but his frustration with my speech came out in that absolute manner. There is a viewpoint (Joel Osteen - Your Best Life NOW) within Christianity that a relationship with Christ is only good for the benefits it brings to my life now -- more money, more influence, better kids, better marriage, and in this case - sexual orientation change.  Without the benefit now, then why would anyone want it. 



Back to the &quot;good offering&quot; business, this gets too close to Unification theology for me. In that view, the reason Sun Myung Moon had to be the third  Adam was because Adam and Eve failed (dang serpent), and Christ failed (dang crucifixion) to institute the perfect heterosexual family on earth. The Moons, as True Parents, stepped forward to fulfill the Messianic duty. This is &quot;every boy gets a girl&quot; as the purpose of life at the extreme and I am not calling Comiskey a Unificationist, but I think there is value in pointing out how close to redemptive this statement of faith makes opposite sex pairing.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All &#8211; I was struck by the phrase &#8220;good offering to the opposite gender&#8221; too. I think people become unclear the farther away from the point of Christianity they get. Christianity is about the drama of redemption, not making sure every boy gets a girl. </p>
<p>To me, this statement of faith elevates heterosexual compatibility over grace and redemption. It makes heterosexuality a measure of one&#8217;s spiritual depth and relationship with God. </p>
<p>This mindset once (and may still be in some quarters) permeated Exodus. I recall speaking at an ex-gay event where I talked about the research on sexual orientation change. I am sure it seemed discouraging to the crowd, many of whom would be at home in the new Restored Hope Network. One man asked the question: &#8220;If a relationship with Christ can&#8217;t change your orientation, then why would anyone want to be a Christian?&#8221; I am pretty sure he meant, why would a SSA person want to be a Christian, but his frustration with my speech came out in that absolute manner. There is a viewpoint (Joel Osteen &#8211; Your Best Life NOW) within Christianity that a relationship with Christ is only good for the benefits it brings to my life now &#8212; more money, more influence, better kids, better marriage, and in this case &#8211; sexual orientation change.  Without the benefit now, then why would anyone want it. </p>
<p>Back to the &#8220;good offering&#8221; business, this gets too close to Unification theology for me. In that view, the reason Sun Myung Moon had to be the third  Adam was because Adam and Eve failed (dang serpent), and Christ failed (dang crucifixion) to institute the perfect heterosexual family on earth. The Moons, as True Parents, stepped forward to fulfill the Messianic duty. This is &#8220;every boy gets a girl&#8221; as the purpose of life at the extreme and I am not calling Comiskey a Unificationist, but I think there is value in pointing out how close to redemptive this statement of faith makes opposite sex pairing.</p>
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		<title>
		By: David M.		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/08/06/desert-stream-ministries-outlines-differences-with-exodus/#comment-79097</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David M.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 18:07:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=11911#comment-79097</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Michael, I share your experience. After 23 years in a heterosexual marriage I realized I would never be able to love her in the way she deserves and needs to be loved, that is, in the way marriage requires me to love her.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael, I share your experience. After 23 years in a heterosexual marriage I realized I would never be able to love her in the way she deserves and needs to be loved, that is, in the way marriage requires me to love her.</p>
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