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	Comments on: David Barton&#8217;s Capitol Tour: Did Thomas Jefferson Spend Federal Funds to Evangelize the Kaskaskia Indians?	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/08/06/david-bartons-capitol-tour-did-thomas-jefferson-spend-federal-funds-to-evangelize-the-kaskaskia-indians/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/08/06/david-bartons-capitol-tour-did-thomas-jefferson-spend-federal-funds-to-evangelize-the-kaskaskia-indians/</link>
	<description>A [retired] college psychology professor&#039;s observations about public policy, mental health, sexual identity, and religious issues</description>
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		<title>
		By: oft		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/08/06/david-bartons-capitol-tour-did-thomas-jefferson-spend-federal-funds-to-evangelize-the-kaskaskia-indians/#comment-89597</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[oft]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 19:31:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=11916#comment-89597</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Warren,



Whatever words David Barton used at the Capitol, and his taking liberty with the word &quot;missionaries&quot;  Jefferson&#039;s, or Harrison&#039;s ulterior motives don&#039;t matter squat to the specific words of the Treaty. The words of the Treaty violate Jefferson&#039;s beliefs. First his words:



&quot;I presume the views of the society are confined to our own country, for with the religion of other countries, my own forbids intermedling.&quot;

--TJ to Samuel Greenhow, January 31, 1814.



TJ is intermeddling big time! Now, the Treaty:



&quot;the United States will give annually for seven years one hundred dollars towards the support of a priest of that religion, who will engage to perform for the said tribe the duties of his office and also to instruct as many of their children as possible in the rudiments of literature. And the United States will further give the sum of three hundred dollars to assist the said tribe in the erection of a church.&quot;



It matters didly squat if every single person in that tribe was Catholic, which isn&#039;t the case anyway. Moreover, it&#039;s safe to say that priest will instruct all the children in catholicism as well as literature. Barton is also correct about evangelizing, because that&#039;s what Priests do. 



You have a better chance combating Barton&#039;s promotion of TJ&#039;s orthodoxy. The Treaty is an indisputable violation of modern separation of church and state, proving without any doubt whatsoever, the entire idea is bogus.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Warren,</p>
<p>Whatever words David Barton used at the Capitol, and his taking liberty with the word &#8220;missionaries&#8221;  Jefferson&#8217;s, or Harrison&#8217;s ulterior motives don&#8217;t matter squat to the specific words of the Treaty. The words of the Treaty violate Jefferson&#8217;s beliefs. First his words:</p>
<p>&#8220;I presume the views of the society are confined to our own country, for with the religion of other countries, my own forbids intermedling.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8211;TJ to Samuel Greenhow, January 31, 1814.</p>
<p>TJ is intermeddling big time! Now, the Treaty:</p>
<p>&#8220;the United States will give annually for seven years one hundred dollars towards the support of a priest of that religion, who will engage to perform for the said tribe the duties of his office and also to instruct as many of their children as possible in the rudiments of literature. And the United States will further give the sum of three hundred dollars to assist the said tribe in the erection of a church.&#8221;</p>
<p>It matters didly squat if every single person in that tribe was Catholic, which isn&#8217;t the case anyway. Moreover, it&#8217;s safe to say that priest will instruct all the children in catholicism as well as literature. Barton is also correct about evangelizing, because that&#8217;s what Priests do. </p>
<p>You have a better chance combating Barton&#8217;s promotion of TJ&#8217;s orthodoxy. The Treaty is an indisputable violation of modern separation of church and state, proving without any doubt whatsoever, the entire idea is bogus.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tom Van Dyke		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/08/06/david-bartons-capitol-tour-did-thomas-jefferson-spend-federal-funds-to-evangelize-the-kaskaskia-indians/#comment-89591</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom Van Dyke]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 19:31:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=11916#comment-89591</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In the least, this was one of the first Faith-Based Initiatives---the US Government funneling money through religious organizations for secular purposes.



An interesting enough point.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the least, this was one of the first Faith-Based Initiatives&#8212;the US Government funneling money through religious organizations for secular purposes.</p>
<p>An interesting enough point.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dave		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/08/06/david-bartons-capitol-tour-did-thomas-jefferson-spend-federal-funds-to-evangelize-the-kaskaskia-indians/#comment-89596</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dave]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 19:31:32 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[I fail to see why Barton thinks this is a big issue .. even if his version were correct (not that I think it is )  One isolated incident is hardly a solid foundation to build on for what we do today in terms of church and state. 



Dave]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I fail to see why Barton thinks this is a big issue .. even if his version were correct (not that I think it is )  One isolated incident is hardly a solid foundation to build on for what we do today in terms of church and state. </p>
<p>Dave</p>
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		<title>
		By: Lynn David		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/08/06/david-bartons-capitol-tour-did-thomas-jefferson-spend-federal-funds-to-evangelize-the-kaskaskia-indians/#comment-89603</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lynn David]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 19:31:32 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[The treaty page dealing with the priest and church for the Kaskaskia tribe can also be seen here:   

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=llsl&#038;fileName=007/llsl007.db&#038;recNum=90



I would point out that a signatory witness to the treaty was Father Jean Francois RIvet, who was a Catholic missionary to several Native American tribes (the Catholic High School in Vincennes from which I graduated is named in his honor). For some reason the treaty gets his name wrong and lists him as T. F. Rivet - I suspect they mistook his J for a T in printing the treaty up.  



Rivet had been driven from France by circumstance of the French Revolution and had come to Vincennes in 1795.   In his parish registers he used to style himself as, &quot;Missionary to the Indians, temporarily officiating in the parish of St Francis Xavier.&quot;   Among other things Rivet collaborated with William Henry Harrison in creating the &quot;Jefferson Academy&quot; at Vincennes in 1801.  The name obviously derives from President Jefferson.   Rivet, who was a former professor of Latin at the Royal College of Limoges, France, became the headmaster of the school.   



However, there is no conflict between religion and government in such situations.  Rivet was likely acting in support of the Kaskaskia tribe and may well have influenced the provisions for a priest and church.  Even the white Catholic parishes on this frontier had trouble providing for the support of a parish priest.  Priests would often take upon themselves secondary occupations, most often as teachers.  Thus Rivet&#039;s involvement until his death in 1804 in the Jefferson Academy, which in 1806 was chartered as Vincennes University.  At age 15, students would come to the college for three years of instruction in Latin classics, such as Caesar, Cicero and Virgil. There was also some English literature, &#038; Euclid&#039;s &quot;Elements&quot; of Geography. Tuition for one year was $16 plus a cord of firewood.  Classes were in Rivet&#039;s parsonage.   The teacher, Rivet, was paid $400.  I have no doubt that Rivet, understanding the nature of the Kaskaskia&#039;s plight and how poor parishes were in general on the frontier, was the one who pushed for the payments for a priest and church in the treaty.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The treaty page dealing with the priest and church for the Kaskaskia tribe can also be seen here:   </p>
<p><a href="http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=llsl&#038;fileName=007/llsl007.db&#038;recNum=90" rel="nofollow ugc">http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=llsl&#038;fileName=007/llsl007.db&#038;recNum=90</a></p>
<p>I would point out that a signatory witness to the treaty was Father Jean Francois RIvet, who was a Catholic missionary to several Native American tribes (the Catholic High School in Vincennes from which I graduated is named in his honor). For some reason the treaty gets his name wrong and lists him as T. F. Rivet &#8211; I suspect they mistook his J for a T in printing the treaty up.  </p>
<p>Rivet had been driven from France by circumstance of the French Revolution and had come to Vincennes in 1795.   In his parish registers he used to style himself as, &#8220;Missionary to the Indians, temporarily officiating in the parish of St Francis Xavier.&#8221;   Among other things Rivet collaborated with William Henry Harrison in creating the &#8220;Jefferson Academy&#8221; at Vincennes in 1801.  The name obviously derives from President Jefferson.   Rivet, who was a former professor of Latin at the Royal College of Limoges, France, became the headmaster of the school.   </p>
<p>However, there is no conflict between religion and government in such situations.  Rivet was likely acting in support of the Kaskaskia tribe and may well have influenced the provisions for a priest and church.  Even the white Catholic parishes on this frontier had trouble providing for the support of a parish priest.  Priests would often take upon themselves secondary occupations, most often as teachers.  Thus Rivet&#8217;s involvement until his death in 1804 in the Jefferson Academy, which in 1806 was chartered as Vincennes University.  At age 15, students would come to the college for three years of instruction in Latin classics, such as Caesar, Cicero and Virgil. There was also some English literature, &#038; Euclid&#8217;s &#8220;Elements&#8221; of Geography. Tuition for one year was $16 plus a cord of firewood.  Classes were in Rivet&#8217;s parsonage.   The teacher, Rivet, was paid $400.  I have no doubt that Rivet, understanding the nature of the Kaskaskia&#8217;s plight and how poor parishes were in general on the frontier, was the one who pushed for the payments for a priest and church in the treaty.</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: Lynn David		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/08/06/david-bartons-capitol-tour-did-thomas-jefferson-spend-federal-funds-to-evangelize-the-kaskaskia-indians/#comment-89599</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lynn David]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 19:31:32 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[Meant to add:  But above all it should be remembered that this was a treaty with a sovereign nation, the Kaskaskias, which represented the remnant of the Illinois nation.  Dealing with a sovereign nation in a treaty need not in any way conform to Jeffersons &quot;separation of Church and State&quot; which is a governing Constitutional factor in internal matters.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Meant to add:  But above all it should be remembered that this was a treaty with a sovereign nation, the Kaskaskias, which represented the remnant of the Illinois nation.  Dealing with a sovereign nation in a treaty need not in any way conform to Jeffersons &#8220;separation of Church and State&#8221; which is a governing Constitutional factor in internal matters.</p>
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