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	Comments on: David Barton: Preparing for the &#8220;progressive, liberal phenomenon&#8221;	</title>
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	<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/08/01/david-barton-adolescence-is-a-progressive-liberal-phenomenon/</link>
	<description>A [retired] college psychology professor&#039;s observations about public policy, mental health, sexual identity, and religious issues</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 20:49:42 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Richard Willmer		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/08/01/david-barton-adolescence-is-a-progressive-liberal-phenomenon/#comment-93423</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Willmer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 20:49:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=11892#comment-93423</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I think that&#039;s an important point, Carol - in such societies young people are required, for various reasons, to &#039;grow up&#039; quickly.  The urbanization of much of human society (which is not altogether a &#039;modern&#039; phenomenon), coupled with recent dramatic increases in life expectancy, has changed much - including in some (predominantly) &#039;tribal&#039; societies.



I suspect that Warren&#039;s main gripe with Barton was his [Barton&#039;s] assumptions about &#039;the mind of God&#039;.  It would be my &#039;main gripe&#039; as well.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that&#8217;s an important point, Carol &#8211; in such societies young people are required, for various reasons, to &#8216;grow up&#8217; quickly.  The urbanization of much of human society (which is not altogether a &#8216;modern&#8217; phenomenon), coupled with recent dramatic increases in life expectancy, has changed much &#8211; including in some (predominantly) &#8216;tribal&#8217; societies.</p>
<p>I suspect that Warren&#8217;s main gripe with Barton was his [Barton&#8217;s] assumptions about &#8216;the mind of God&#8217;.  It would be my &#8216;main gripe&#8217; as well.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Richard Willmer		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/08/01/david-barton-adolescence-is-a-progressive-liberal-phenomenon/#comment-89411</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Willmer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 19:28:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=11892#comment-89411</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[A bit more etymology: the word &#039;history&#039; comes from the ancient Greek ??????? (&#039;istoria&#039; in the Latin alphabet), literally, I believe, meaning &#039;enquiry&#039;.



(In modern Greek, ??????? is generally translated as &#039;history&#039;, but can also mean &#039;story&#039; or &#039;love affair&#039;, depending on the context.)



Etymologically speaking, Barton is no historian (genuine &#039;enquiry&#039; simply doesn&#039;t feature, it would seem).  Throckmorton is one.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A bit more etymology: the word &#8216;history&#8217; comes from the ancient Greek ??????? (&#8216;istoria&#8217; in the Latin alphabet), literally, I believe, meaning &#8216;enquiry&#8217;.</p>
<p>(In modern Greek, ??????? is generally translated as &#8216;history&#8217;, but can also mean &#8216;story&#8217; or &#8216;love affair&#8217;, depending on the context.)</p>
<p>Etymologically speaking, Barton is no historian (genuine &#8216;enquiry&#8217; simply doesn&#8217;t feature, it would seem).  Throckmorton is one.</p>
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		<title>
		By: jimmiraybob		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/08/01/david-barton-adolescence-is-a-progressive-liberal-phenomenon/#comment-89426</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jimmiraybob]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 19:28:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=11892#comment-89426</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Well, speaking of Latin origin, Cicero speaks of adolescence in &lt;i&gt;On Friendship&lt;/i&gt; (or &lt;i&gt;Laelius&lt;/i&gt;), I don&#039;t know if Jefferson had a copy in his library but I wouldn&#039;t be surprised.  Many of the founders/framers, including Jefferson (who read Latin) as well as Washington and Adams (who May have read Latin), were well versed in classical Greek/Roman thought and literature, as well as the Bible, and were especially fond of Cicero as a Statesman and philosopher (Stoic; 1st century BC).  



In Chapter 10 of &lt;i&gt;Laelius&lt;/i&gt;:



&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;Well, then, my good friends, listen to some conversations about friendship which very frequently passed between Scipio and myself. I must begin by telling you, however, that he used to say that the most difficult thing in the world was for a friendship to remain unimpaired to the end of life. So many things might intervene: conflicting interests; differences of opinion in politics; frequent changes in character, owing sometimes to misfortunes, sometimes to advancing years. He used to illustrate these facts from the analogy of boyhood, since the warmest affections between boys are often laid aside with the boyish toga; and even if they did manage to keep them up to &lt;b&gt;adolescence&lt;/b&gt;, they were sometimes broken by a rivalry in courtship, or for some other advantage to which their mutual claims were not compatible.&quot;(1)&lt;/blockquote&gt;  



The word &lt;i&gt;adulescentiam&lt;/i&gt; appears to be the original Latin(2).



And, isn&#039;t the concept, at least, contained in 1 Cor 13:11 (KJV), &quot;When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.&quot;  Sounds like adolescence to me.



1) http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/cicero-friendship.asp

2) The following source provides both Latin and an English translation, although the English translation doesn&#039;t explicitly use &quot;adolescence&quot; unlike the translation above. From: http://www.grtbooks.com/exitfram.asp?idx=0&#038;yr=1600&#038;aa=CI&#038;at=J&#038;lst=9&#038;ref=cicero&#038;URL=http://www.uah.edu/student_life/organizations/SAL/texts/latin/classical/cicero/deamicitia.html]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, speaking of Latin origin, Cicero speaks of adolescence in <i>On Friendship</i> (or <i>Laelius</i>), I don&#8217;t know if Jefferson had a copy in his library but I wouldn&#8217;t be surprised.  Many of the founders/framers, including Jefferson (who read Latin) as well as Washington and Adams (who May have read Latin), were well versed in classical Greek/Roman thought and literature, as well as the Bible, and were especially fond of Cicero as a Statesman and philosopher (Stoic; 1st century BC).  </p>
<p>In Chapter 10 of <i>Laelius</i>:</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;Well, then, my good friends, listen to some conversations about friendship which very frequently passed between Scipio and myself. I must begin by telling you, however, that he used to say that the most difficult thing in the world was for a friendship to remain unimpaired to the end of life. So many things might intervene: conflicting interests; differences of opinion in politics; frequent changes in character, owing sometimes to misfortunes, sometimes to advancing years. He used to illustrate these facts from the analogy of boyhood, since the warmest affections between boys are often laid aside with the boyish toga; and even if they did manage to keep them up to <b>adolescence</b>, they were sometimes broken by a rivalry in courtship, or for some other advantage to which their mutual claims were not compatible.&#8221;(1)</p></blockquote>
<p>The word <i>adulescentiam</i> appears to be the original Latin(2).</p>
<p>And, isn&#8217;t the concept, at least, contained in 1 Cor 13:11 (KJV), &#8220;When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.&#8221;  Sounds like adolescence to me.</p>
<p>1) <a href="http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/cicero-friendship.asp" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/cicero-friendship.asp</a></p>
<p>2) The following source provides both Latin and an English translation, although the English translation doesn&#8217;t explicitly use &#8220;adolescence&#8221; unlike the translation above. From: <a href="http://www.grtbooks.com/exitfram.asp?idx=0&#038;yr=1600&#038;aa=CI&#038;at=J&#038;lst=9&#038;ref=cicero&#038;URL=http://www.uah.edu/student_life/organizations/SAL/texts/latin/classical/cicero/deamicitia.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.grtbooks.com/exitfram.asp?idx=0&#038;yr=1600&#038;aa=CI&#038;at=J&#038;lst=9&#038;ref=cicero&#038;URL=http://www.uah.edu/student_life/organizations/SAL/texts/latin/classical/cicero/deamicitia.html</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Richard Willmer		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/08/01/david-barton-adolescence-is-a-progressive-liberal-phenomenon/#comment-89424</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Willmer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 19:28:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=11892#comment-89424</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;Did he just say that God&#039;s mind is limited to Hebrew?&quot;



It&#039;s limited to LATIN, surely?!  LOL!  (The word &#039;adolescent&#039; is derived from the Latin &#039;adolescere&#039; = to grow up.)



Dominus vobiscum! :-)

(Sorry, Dave.)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Did he just say that God&#8217;s mind is limited to Hebrew?&#8221;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s limited to LATIN, surely?!  LOL!  (The word &#8216;adolescent&#8217; is derived from the Latin &#8216;adolescere&#8217; = to grow up.)</p>
<p>Dominus vobiscum! 🙂</p>
<p>(Sorry, Dave.)</p>
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		<title>
		By: James Ferguson		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/08/01/david-barton-adolescence-is-a-progressive-liberal-phenomenon/#comment-89422</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[James Ferguson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 19:28:32 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[Hmmm, the word may not date back to Biblical times, but it appears to have been in use by the late 18th century,  http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=adolescent, and given that French was one of Jefferson&#039;s languages, I imagine he was familiar with the term.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmm, the word may not date back to Biblical times, but it appears to have been in use by the late 18th century,  <a href="http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=adolescent" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=adolescent</a>, and given that French was one of Jefferson&#8217;s languages, I imagine he was familiar with the term.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Richard Willmer		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/08/01/david-barton-adolescence-is-a-progressive-liberal-phenomenon/#comment-89421</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Willmer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 19:28:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=11892#comment-89421</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Oh dear - my Greek script has gone AWOL!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh dear &#8211; my Greek script has gone AWOL!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Bernie		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/08/01/david-barton-adolescence-is-a-progressive-liberal-phenomenon/#comment-89420</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bernie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 19:28:32 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[Thanks Richard for the etymology. Once again, Barton tries to &quot;mislead&quot; his audience by drudging up some arcane fact, and using that to whitewash his entire argument. I love how Richard brings up the Latin origin, it dismantles Barton premise. 

Barton speaks with forked tongue! No wonder the man has the ability to pull the wool over the eyes of others. He is no more than a mountebank selling his snake oil from the back of his wagon.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Richard for the etymology. Once again, Barton tries to &#8220;mislead&#8221; his audience by drudging up some arcane fact, and using that to whitewash his entire argument. I love how Richard brings up the Latin origin, it dismantles Barton premise. </p>
<p>Barton speaks with forked tongue! No wonder the man has the ability to pull the wool over the eyes of others. He is no more than a mountebank selling his snake oil from the back of his wagon.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Richard Willmer		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/08/01/david-barton-adolescence-is-a-progressive-liberal-phenomenon/#comment-89416</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Willmer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 19:28:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=11892#comment-89416</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@ Warren



I love the irony!



@ That Bad Dog



I love (what I assume is) the irony!  (Your last two sentences are meant to be ironic, aren&#039;t they?  Just checking.)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Warren</p>
<p>I love the irony!</p>
<p>@ That Bad Dog</p>
<p>I love (what I assume is) the irony!  (Your last two sentences are meant to be ironic, aren&#8217;t they?  Just checking.)</p>
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		<title>
		By: That Bad Dog		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/08/01/david-barton-adolescence-is-a-progressive-liberal-phenomenon/#comment-89413</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[That Bad Dog]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 19:28:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=11892#comment-89413</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@Richard, yes that was irony, or sarcasm, or something in that general family.



But perhaps Barton would say that God saw that in the distant future, adolescence would be created by evil progressives and liberals, and so those portions of Proverbs would become necessary. I&#039;m sure this information is located somewhere in his collection of original documents.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Richard, yes that was irony, or sarcasm, or something in that general family.</p>
<p>But perhaps Barton would say that God saw that in the distant future, adolescence would be created by evil progressives and liberals, and so those portions of Proverbs would become necessary. I&#8217;m sure this information is located somewhere in his collection of original documents.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Richard Willmer		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/08/01/david-barton-adolescence-is-a-progressive-liberal-phenomenon/#comment-61761</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Willmer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2012 08:21:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=11892#comment-61761</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I think that&#039;s an important point, Carol - in such societies young people are required, for various reasons, to &#039;grow up&#039; quickly.  The urbanization of much of human society (which is not altogether a &#039;modern&#039; phenomenon), coupled with recent dramatic increases in life expectancy, has changed much - including in some (predominantly) &#039;tribal&#039; societies.



I suspect that Warren&#039;s main gripe with Barton was his [Barton&#039;s] assumptions about &#039;the mind of God&#039;.  It would be my &#039;main gripe&#039; as well.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that&#8217;s an important point, Carol &#8211; in such societies young people are required, for various reasons, to &#8216;grow up&#8217; quickly.  The urbanization of much of human society (which is not altogether a &#8216;modern&#8217; phenomenon), coupled with recent dramatic increases in life expectancy, has changed much &#8211; including in some (predominantly) &#8216;tribal&#8217; societies.</p>
<p>I suspect that Warren&#8217;s main gripe with Barton was his [Barton&#8217;s] assumptions about &#8216;the mind of God&#8217;.  It would be my &#8216;main gripe&#8217; as well.</p>
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