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	Comments on: Emails Contradict Dr. Nicolosi&#8217;s Conflicting Claims of Cure	</title>
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	<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/07/27/emails-contradict-dr-nicolosis-conflicting-claims-of-cure/</link>
	<description>A [retired] college psychology professor&#039;s observations about public policy, mental health, sexual identity, and religious issues</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 21:27:32 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Warren		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/07/27/emails-contradict-dr-nicolosis-conflicting-claims-of-cure/#comment-94353</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Warren]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 21:27:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=11855#comment-94353</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/07/27/emails-contradict-dr-nicolosis-conflicting-claims-of-cure/#comment-86521&quot;&gt;Teresa&lt;/a&gt;.

Teresa - In trying to establish whether IHF is credible, I can point you to this page on the blog.

Also, in addition to your many good questions, I would add a question about where those complete changers were when they started their process. Not all people who begin reparative therapy are really gay in the first place. That they end up straight is not a matter of orientation change but of dealing with whatever got them into acting in contradiction their straight orientation. 

RE: Richard Cohen - there are some who are afraid to talk publicly but who have expressed private doubts about the completeness of his orientation change. He did a demonstration at Exodus Intl in 2000 that is relevant to claims of complete change. He said he had completely changed then but the &lt;a href=&quot;/2007/11/27/ex-gay-history-richard-cohens-2000-exodus-conference-presentation/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;description here casts doubt on that&lt;/a&gt;. I have spoken to others who have engaged in various workshops, sessions with Richard that have similar tales to tell.

See also this video clip.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5q-0-5bnUk&#038;list=UU6OQODXN5Iw8vvBA11gxFyg&#038;index=6&#038;feature=plcp]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/07/27/emails-contradict-dr-nicolosis-conflicting-claims-of-cure/#comment-86521">Teresa</a>.</p>
<p>Teresa &#8211; In trying to establish whether IHF is credible, I can point you to this page on the blog.</p>
<p>Also, in addition to your many good questions, I would add a question about where those complete changers were when they started their process. Not all people who begin reparative therapy are really gay in the first place. That they end up straight is not a matter of orientation change but of dealing with whatever got them into acting in contradiction their straight orientation. </p>
<p>RE: Richard Cohen &#8211; there are some who are afraid to talk publicly but who have expressed private doubts about the completeness of his orientation change. He did a demonstration at Exodus Intl in 2000 that is relevant to claims of complete change. He said he had completely changed then but the <a href="/2007/11/27/ex-gay-history-richard-cohens-2000-exodus-conference-presentation/" rel="nofollow">description here casts doubt on that</a>. I have spoken to others who have engaged in various workshops, sessions with Richard that have similar tales to tell.</p>
<p>See also this video clip.<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5q-0-5bnUk&#038;list=UU6OQODXN5Iw8vvBA11gxFyg&#038;index=6&#038;feature=plcp" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5q-0-5bnUk&#038;list=UU6OQODXN5Iw8vvBA11gxFyg&#038;index=6&#038;feature=plcp</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Gus		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/07/27/emails-contradict-dr-nicolosis-conflicting-claims-of-cure/#comment-92991</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 20:33:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=11855#comment-92991</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I have long forgiven my father for his non-responsiveness compared to my three brothers. IT DID NOT CAUSE ME TO BE GAY but was his REACTION to a son who emerged almost fully gay from the womb. His ordination, a 1950&#039;s form of Muscular Christianity, his non-demonstrative Teutonic upbringing had no place for me in his well ordered life. I know he felt my being gay was a personal failure and feared for my future. (You will die alone and childless)

In my middle age, when my orientation could no longer be viewed as part of my teenage rebellion, we reached an accommodating place. We never had the same bond as he did with my brothers, but he really liked my longtime partner and was protective of our relationship. 

My father had an aspirational script in his head for himself and my life as most parents do. My being gay rewrote the first act, then my father had no concept for the next act and got writer&#039;s block. But it did not make me gay.

I wish these idiots would stop saying it is my father&#039;s fault, or it that doesn&#039;t work, blame my mother. Both my parents were good people who just did not know what to do with a gay kid.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have long forgiven my father for his non-responsiveness compared to my three brothers. IT DID NOT CAUSE ME TO BE GAY but was his REACTION to a son who emerged almost fully gay from the womb. His ordination, a 1950&#8217;s form of Muscular Christianity, his non-demonstrative Teutonic upbringing had no place for me in his well ordered life. I know he felt my being gay was a personal failure and feared for my future. (You will die alone and childless)</p>
<p>In my middle age, when my orientation could no longer be viewed as part of my teenage rebellion, we reached an accommodating place. We never had the same bond as he did with my brothers, but he really liked my longtime partner and was protective of our relationship. </p>
<p>My father had an aspirational script in his head for himself and my life as most parents do. My being gay rewrote the first act, then my father had no concept for the next act and got writer&#8217;s block. But it did not make me gay.</p>
<p>I wish these idiots would stop saying it is my father&#8217;s fault, or it that doesn&#8217;t work, blame my mother. Both my parents were good people who just did not know what to do with a gay kid.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Steven		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/07/27/emails-contradict-dr-nicolosis-conflicting-claims-of-cure/#comment-89497</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steven]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 19:29:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=11855#comment-89497</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[1.  Is there a legitimate ethical issue when a clinician makes contradictory public statements about the efficacy of his therapeutic methods?



2.  As for the 75% cure rate, I recall reading that he also claimed a 33/33/33 outcome breakdown.  That is 33% became happy, functioning heterosexuals, 33% substantially reduced their homosexuality to the point where the clients were happier, and 33% were something other than success.  



3.  Regardless of whether he claims a 75% success rate or a 33% success rate, after 28 years either figure would represent thousands of homo-to-hetero conversions.  So where are they?  Why can&#039;t we meet any of those Kinsey 5&#039;s and 6&#039;s that he treated back in 1986 and 1987, now concluding their third decade of blissful heterosexuality?  Why hasn&#039;t his clinic published a single peer-reviewed paper on this?  Why did it take him years to come up with just a handful of names to give to Dr. Spitzer in 2001 when Spitzer was seeking out success stories?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1.  Is there a legitimate ethical issue when a clinician makes contradictory public statements about the efficacy of his therapeutic methods?</p>
<p>2.  As for the 75% cure rate, I recall reading that he also claimed a 33/33/33 outcome breakdown.  That is 33% became happy, functioning heterosexuals, 33% substantially reduced their homosexuality to the point where the clients were happier, and 33% were something other than success.  </p>
<p>3.  Regardless of whether he claims a 75% success rate or a 33% success rate, after 28 years either figure would represent thousands of homo-to-hetero conversions.  So where are they?  Why can&#8217;t we meet any of those Kinsey 5&#8217;s and 6&#8217;s that he treated back in 1986 and 1987, now concluding their third decade of blissful heterosexuality?  Why hasn&#8217;t his clinic published a single peer-reviewed paper on this?  Why did it take him years to come up with just a handful of names to give to Dr. Spitzer in 2001 when Spitzer was seeking out success stories?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Christopher Doyle		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/07/27/emails-contradict-dr-nicolosis-conflicting-claims-of-cure/#comment-89502</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Christopher Doyle]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 19:29:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=11855#comment-89502</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[But Warren, you seem to deny that any former homosexual has achieved complete change. But I have, and so has Richard Cohen. I know many SOCE therapists who used to have SSA and now have experienced 100% change, much like myself. Will you argue against my testimony or the testimonies of these men I know? Surely you have met some of them at NARTH conferences?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But Warren, you seem to deny that any former homosexual has achieved complete change. But I have, and so has Richard Cohen. I know many SOCE therapists who used to have SSA and now have experienced 100% change, much like myself. Will you argue against my testimony or the testimonies of these men I know? Surely you have met some of them at NARTH conferences?</p>
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		<title>
		By: DaveG		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/07/27/emails-contradict-dr-nicolosis-conflicting-claims-of-cure/#comment-89496</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DaveG]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 19:29:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=11855#comment-89496</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Let&#039;s get more specific: SSA combines both our natural &quot;Hardwired to Connect&quot; with others (cf Dartmouth study), with preference for those relationships which enhance or complement our own self-identity.  And second, a tenacious mental association of sex-drive to such relationships so that the relationship is pereceived as sexual attraction. Once consummated, this association so imprinted in the neural pathways of the brain that it persists even beyond therapeutic correction of the identity factor. Gay mythology, reinforced by the gay community, the media, and misguided &quot;allies&quot; strengthen this association to the extent that one becomes convinced he/she is incurably homosexual.

Total avoidance of former &quot;friends&quot; like these, replaced by new and straight primary relationships and new supportive community --e.g. a church family (welcoming- and witnessing-type which understands but does not go &quot;PC&quot;) help an individual deal with the fact that one can choose NOT to be gay.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s get more specific: SSA combines both our natural &#8220;Hardwired to Connect&#8221; with others (cf Dartmouth study), with preference for those relationships which enhance or complement our own self-identity.  And second, a tenacious mental association of sex-drive to such relationships so that the relationship is pereceived as sexual attraction. Once consummated, this association so imprinted in the neural pathways of the brain that it persists even beyond therapeutic correction of the identity factor. Gay mythology, reinforced by the gay community, the media, and misguided &#8220;allies&#8221; strengthen this association to the extent that one becomes convinced he/she is incurably homosexual.</p>
<p>Total avoidance of former &#8220;friends&#8221; like these, replaced by new and straight primary relationships and new supportive community &#8211;e.g. a church family (welcoming- and witnessing-type which understands but does not go &#8220;PC&#8221;) help an individual deal with the fact that one can choose NOT to be gay.</p>
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