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	Comments on: Press Release: American Christian Leaders Speak Out Against Anti-Homosexuality Laws	</title>
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	<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/07/24/press-release-american-christian-leaders-speak-out-against-anti-homosexuality-laws/</link>
	<description>A [retired] college psychology professor&#039;s observations about public policy, mental health, sexual identity, and religious issues</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 18:52:52 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Dan		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/07/24/press-release-american-christian-leaders-speak-out-against-anti-homosexuality-laws/#comment-85180</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 18:52:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=11837#comment-85180</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Genocide was not merely described in the OT, it was required.  Yahweh gave specific orders for specific peoples to be violently wiped off the map.  For example, He gave specific instructions for the Midianites to be exterminated.  Moses got the orders from Yahweh and even though the Midanites had sheltered him when he was a fugitive, Moses ordered them all slaughtered.  When his soldiers allowed some Midianite women and children to live, Moses was furious and personally oversaw the slaughter of the remainder - with the exception of virgin females who were to be kept as sex slaves.  That is your Holy Bible.  



Beyond that, there are many other passages that compel killing as a matter of divine edict.  Leviticus 20 says &quot;their blood shall be upon them.&quot;  In law, &quot;shall&quot; is an imperative.  There is no discretion.



Now if you want to cast doubt on the Bible as God&#039;s Word, that is your choice.  But you would only be keeping the Sermon on the Mount and tossing the Midianite genocide based on your own personal moral choices.  Since you are a fallen sinner, how could you trust your own judgment?   It is a paradox.  To avoid that paradox as well as the moral uncertainty that accompanies it, Christians unquestioningly accept their Bible as God&#039;s inspired word.  If you don&#039;t, you aren&#039;t a Christian.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Genocide was not merely described in the OT, it was required.  Yahweh gave specific orders for specific peoples to be violently wiped off the map.  For example, He gave specific instructions for the Midianites to be exterminated.  Moses got the orders from Yahweh and even though the Midanites had sheltered him when he was a fugitive, Moses ordered them all slaughtered.  When his soldiers allowed some Midianite women and children to live, Moses was furious and personally oversaw the slaughter of the remainder &#8211; with the exception of virgin females who were to be kept as sex slaves.  That is your Holy Bible.  </p>
<p>Beyond that, there are many other passages that compel killing as a matter of divine edict.  Leviticus 20 says &#8220;their blood shall be upon them.&#8221;  In law, &#8220;shall&#8221; is an imperative.  There is no discretion.</p>
<p>Now if you want to cast doubt on the Bible as God&#8217;s Word, that is your choice.  But you would only be keeping the Sermon on the Mount and tossing the Midianite genocide based on your own personal moral choices.  Since you are a fallen sinner, how could you trust your own judgment?   It is a paradox.  To avoid that paradox as well as the moral uncertainty that accompanies it, Christians unquestioningly accept their Bible as God&#8217;s inspired word.  If you don&#8217;t, you aren&#8217;t a Christian.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Maazi NCO		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/07/24/press-release-american-christian-leaders-speak-out-against-anti-homosexuality-laws/#comment-81655</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Maazi NCO]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 18:22:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=11837#comment-81655</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;Whereas the fact that they&#039;re not hurting anyone is a fact.&lt;/blockquote&gt;



In your selfish and highly individualistic &quot;mind-your-own-business&quot; societies of the Western world what the gay sex practitioners do is not anybody&#039;s business. But African societies are communal in nature. What another person does in public or in private is the business of his/her family, community and village. The idea that a person should exercise absolute freedom to engage in debasing and inhuman behaviour is unacceptable in Africa in general (and Uganda, in particular).





&lt;blockquote&gt; Except that does hurt the children of those unions. Science, remember? &lt;/blockquote&gt;



Sorry, the judges from German high court to German supreme court all said they were convicting the incestous couple &quot;for the good of society and decency&quot;. Nobody mentioned science or children with regards to the incestous siblings. In the UK, another incestous couple (father and adult daughter) were declared guilty despite their &quot;love for each other&quot;. According to the UK media, the presiding British judge also spoke of &quot;public decency&quot; and &quot;the good of society&quot;. Nobody mentioned children or science. In Africa, gayism offends our culture, dignity and general human decency and will NEVER be acceptable to us.





&lt;blockquote&gt;In the same sense that witch children are not &quot;innocent.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;



This is just racial stereotyping for which you chaps in the Western world are notorious. There is no such thing as &quot;witch children&quot;. Yes, there are few Africans who may label children as such. But those Africans are acting contrary to the law and are therefore committing the crime of child abuse. Don&#039;t you have serial killers and rapists in your beloved USA?



&lt;blockquote&gt;The fact that you can&#039;t come up with any rational purpose for persecuting gay people beyond vague appeals to cultural values would seem to support my claim that this is about irrational fear and hate, you see?&lt;/blockquote&gt;



I have already provided a logical and rational reason for our rejection  of gayism. It is against African culture in much the same way that polygamy is against your own people&#039;s culture. We will never accept the idea that it is okay for a man to marry another man or engage in debased sexual activities which can throw up strange antibiotic resistant sexually transmitted diseases. We cannot tolerate the most effective means of transmitting HIV/AIDS after intravenous drug use. It is bad enough that we are trying to control AIDS contracted by normal man-woman couples. We certainly don&#039;t need any further complications from gay sex practitioners





&lt;blockquote&gt;That&#039;s mostly related to child abuse and welfare fraud, but maybe those are cultural values for you.&lt;/blockquote&gt;



No Sir !! They are not cultural values in Africa. Given the high rates of child abuse and welfare fraud in your country, I dare say these vices may be cultural values in the United States.



&lt;blockquote&gt;Is anyone else seeing a parallel between this &quot;gayism&quot; thing they&#039;re on about and the satanic ritual abuse panic that swept the USA a couple decades ago?&lt;/blockquote&gt;



No. I see no parallel.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Whereas the fact that they&#8217;re not hurting anyone is a fact.</p></blockquote>
<p>In your selfish and highly individualistic &#8220;mind-your-own-business&#8221; societies of the Western world what the gay sex practitioners do is not anybody&#8217;s business. But African societies are communal in nature. What another person does in public or in private is the business of his/her family, community and village. The idea that a person should exercise absolute freedom to engage in debasing and inhuman behaviour is unacceptable in Africa in general (and Uganda, in particular).</p>
<blockquote><p> Except that does hurt the children of those unions. Science, remember? </p></blockquote>
<p>Sorry, the judges from German high court to German supreme court all said they were convicting the incestous couple &#8220;for the good of society and decency&#8221;. Nobody mentioned science or children with regards to the incestous siblings. In the UK, another incestous couple (father and adult daughter) were declared guilty despite their &#8220;love for each other&#8221;. According to the UK media, the presiding British judge also spoke of &#8220;public decency&#8221; and &#8220;the good of society&#8221;. Nobody mentioned children or science. In Africa, gayism offends our culture, dignity and general human decency and will NEVER be acceptable to us.</p>
<blockquote><p>In the same sense that witch children are not &#8220;innocent.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>This is just racial stereotyping for which you chaps in the Western world are notorious. There is no such thing as &#8220;witch children&#8221;. Yes, there are few Africans who may label children as such. But those Africans are acting contrary to the law and are therefore committing the crime of child abuse. Don&#8217;t you have serial killers and rapists in your beloved USA?</p>
<blockquote><p>The fact that you can&#8217;t come up with any rational purpose for persecuting gay people beyond vague appeals to cultural values would seem to support my claim that this is about irrational fear and hate, you see?</p></blockquote>
<p>I have already provided a logical and rational reason for our rejection  of gayism. It is against African culture in much the same way that polygamy is against your own people&#8217;s culture. We will never accept the idea that it is okay for a man to marry another man or engage in debased sexual activities which can throw up strange antibiotic resistant sexually transmitted diseases. We cannot tolerate the most effective means of transmitting HIV/AIDS after intravenous drug use. It is bad enough that we are trying to control AIDS contracted by normal man-woman couples. We certainly don&#8217;t need any further complications from gay sex practitioners</p>
<blockquote><p>That&#8217;s mostly related to child abuse and welfare fraud, but maybe those are cultural values for you.</p></blockquote>
<p>No Sir !! They are not cultural values in Africa. Given the high rates of child abuse and welfare fraud in your country, I dare say these vices may be cultural values in the United States.</p>
<blockquote><p>Is anyone else seeing a parallel between this &#8220;gayism&#8221; thing they&#8217;re on about and the satanic ritual abuse panic that swept the USA a couple decades ago?</p></blockquote>
<p>No. I see no parallel.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Boo		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/07/24/press-release-american-christian-leaders-speak-out-against-anti-homosexuality-laws/#comment-81656</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Boo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 18:22:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=11837#comment-81656</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;In your selfish and highly individualistic &quot;mind-your-own-business&quot; societies of the Western world what the gay sex practitioners do is not anybody&#039;s business. But African societies are communal in nature. What another person does in public or in private is the business of his/her family, community and village. The idea that a person should exercise absolute freedom to engage in debasing and inhuman behaviour is unacceptable in Africa in general (and Uganda, in particular).&quot;



And yet you still can&#039;t describe any actual harm they&#039;re doing. Why do you suppose that is?



&quot;Sorry, the judges from German high court to German supreme court all said they were convicting the incestous couple &quot;for the good of society and decency&quot;. Nobody mentioned science or children with regards to the incestous siblings. In the UK, another incestous couple (father and adult daughter) were declared guilty despite their &quot;love for each other&quot;. According to the UK media, the presiding British judge also spoke of &quot;public decency&quot; and &quot;the good of society&quot;. Nobody mentioned children or science. In Africa, gayism offends our culture, dignity and general human decency and will NEVER be acceptable to us.&quot;



And what precisely do you imagine the basis of social and cultural taboos against incest are? Incest produces actual, measurable harm in children of those unions. That is a fact. The same cannot be said of gay unions.



&quot;I have already provided a logical and rational reason for our rejection of gayism. It is against African culture in much the same way that polygamy is against your own people&#039;s culture.&quot;



Do you even read what you write? In response to my claim that the only reason you ever come up with for opposing &quot;gayism&quot; is vague appeals to culture, you make a vague appeal to culture. Not that I object to you proving my point. 



&quot;We cannot tolerate the most effective means of transmitting HIV/AIDS after intravenous drug use. It is bad enough that we are trying to control AIDS contracted by normal man-woman couples. We certainly don&#039;t need any further complications from gay sex practitioners&quot;



Um... you do realize that sexually transmitted diseases are transmitted by, you  know, sex? 



&quot;No Sir !! They are not cultural values in Africa. Given the high rates of child abuse and welfare fraud in your country, I dare say these vices may be cultural values in the United States.&quot;



You were the one criticizing the FBI for going after people for that, remember?



&quot;No. I see no parallel.&quot;



Naturally not. That would require you to open your eyes.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;In your selfish and highly individualistic &#8220;mind-your-own-business&#8221; societies of the Western world what the gay sex practitioners do is not anybody&#8217;s business. But African societies are communal in nature. What another person does in public or in private is the business of his/her family, community and village. The idea that a person should exercise absolute freedom to engage in debasing and inhuman behaviour is unacceptable in Africa in general (and Uganda, in particular).&#8221;</p>
<p>And yet you still can&#8217;t describe any actual harm they&#8217;re doing. Why do you suppose that is?</p>
<p>&#8220;Sorry, the judges from German high court to German supreme court all said they were convicting the incestous couple &#8220;for the good of society and decency&#8221;. Nobody mentioned science or children with regards to the incestous siblings. In the UK, another incestous couple (father and adult daughter) were declared guilty despite their &#8220;love for each other&#8221;. According to the UK media, the presiding British judge also spoke of &#8220;public decency&#8221; and &#8220;the good of society&#8221;. Nobody mentioned children or science. In Africa, gayism offends our culture, dignity and general human decency and will NEVER be acceptable to us.&#8221;</p>
<p>And what precisely do you imagine the basis of social and cultural taboos against incest are? Incest produces actual, measurable harm in children of those unions. That is a fact. The same cannot be said of gay unions.</p>
<p>&#8220;I have already provided a logical and rational reason for our rejection of gayism. It is against African culture in much the same way that polygamy is against your own people&#8217;s culture.&#8221;</p>
<p>Do you even read what you write? In response to my claim that the only reason you ever come up with for opposing &#8220;gayism&#8221; is vague appeals to culture, you make a vague appeal to culture. Not that I object to you proving my point. </p>
<p>&#8220;We cannot tolerate the most effective means of transmitting HIV/AIDS after intravenous drug use. It is bad enough that we are trying to control AIDS contracted by normal man-woman couples. We certainly don&#8217;t need any further complications from gay sex practitioners&#8221;</p>
<p>Um&#8230; you do realize that sexually transmitted diseases are transmitted by, you  know, sex? </p>
<p>&#8220;No Sir !! They are not cultural values in Africa. Given the high rates of child abuse and welfare fraud in your country, I dare say these vices may be cultural values in the United States.&#8221;</p>
<p>You were the one criticizing the FBI for going after people for that, remember?</p>
<p>&#8220;No. I see no parallel.&#8221;</p>
<p>Naturally not. That would require you to open your eyes.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Richard Willmer		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/07/24/press-release-american-christian-leaders-speak-out-against-anti-homosexuality-laws/#comment-81657</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Willmer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2018 18:22:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=11837#comment-81657</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Indeed, boo.



When UG has a relatively uncorrupt functioning civil society, we&#039;ll listen to &#039;Maazi&#039;s&#039; homilies.  Unit then, we&#039;ll continue to treat then with the contempt they deserve.



One of the big drivers of HIV/AIDS is HYPOCRISY - especially sexual hypocrisy, of course, given that (heterosexual) sex is the principal vector of HIV in Uganda, a country noted for its &#039;vigorous sexuality&#039;.  Gay bashing (and pretending that HIV is really a &#039;gay&#039; problem) just makes heterosexuals all the more complacent and hypocritical.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indeed, boo.</p>
<p>When UG has a relatively uncorrupt functioning civil society, we&#8217;ll listen to &#8216;Maazi&#8217;s&#8217; homilies.  Unit then, we&#8217;ll continue to treat then with the contempt they deserve.</p>
<p>One of the big drivers of HIV/AIDS is HYPOCRISY &#8211; especially sexual hypocrisy, of course, given that (heterosexual) sex is the principal vector of HIV in Uganda, a country noted for its &#8216;vigorous sexuality&#8217;.  Gay bashing (and pretending that HIV is really a &#8216;gay&#8217; problem) just makes heterosexuals all the more complacent and hypocritical.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Richard Willmer		</title>
		<link>https://wthrockmorton.com/2012/07/24/press-release-american-christian-leaders-speak-out-against-anti-homosexuality-laws/#comment-61643</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Willmer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2012 10:31:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://www.wthrockmorton.com/?p=11837#comment-61643</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Since &#039;Maazi NCO&#039; has seen fit to bring up the matter of HIV/AIDS, here&#039;s an interesting article, published just today, on the matter: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/03/world/africa/in-uganda-an-aids-success-story-comes-undone.html



It says much of what some Ugandan officials/experts have themselves been saying recently.  &#039;Homosexuality&#039; is NOT cited as a significant factor when it comes to the recent rise in infection rates (but &#039;pushing behaviour underground&#039; IS).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since &#8216;Maazi NCO&#8217; has seen fit to bring up the matter of HIV/AIDS, here&#8217;s an interesting article, published just today, on the matter: <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/03/world/africa/in-uganda-an-aids-success-story-comes-undone.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/03/world/africa/in-uganda-an-aids-success-story-comes-undone.html</a></p>
<p>It says much of what some Ugandan officials/experts have themselves been saying recently.  &#8216;Homosexuality&#8217; is NOT cited as a significant factor when it comes to the recent rise in infection rates (but &#8216;pushing behaviour underground&#8217; IS).</p>
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