September 22, 2012 at 2:15 pm

“I think that because Barton is the ONLY ONE who is doing the work to reconnect Christians in America with their Christian heritage, that he will be punished severely for doing so.”

No, what Barton is doing is distorting history in an attempt to elevate christians above all others in the US. And he is being challenged because of his distortions, not because of his christian beliefs. Warren, Michael and many others (conservative, liberal and moderates, christians and others) have all given evidence of Barton’s misrepresentations. Further, it is BARTON who is doing all the name-calling, not his detractors. Calling them, leftists, liberals, elitists, atheists, and anything else he can think of that will resonate with his followers. But he never really addresses the issues they raise.

I agree that the whole idea of the Founder’s Bible is wrong, but to even hint that Hammond is one of the basic founders of the whole “Christian Nation” meme is ridiculous. Barton, however, feels that he can get away with anything simply because his fan base is so rabidly promoting his work as a “historian”. Righteous arrogance does indeed breed stupidity, but die-hards will eat it all up as manna.

September 22, 2012 at 2:15 pm

“I think that because Barton is the ONLY ONE who is doing the work to reconnect Christians in America with their Christian heritage, that he will be punished severely for doing so.”

No, what Barton is doing is distorting history in an attempt to elevate christians above all others in the US. And he is being challenged because of his distortions, not because of his christian beliefs. Warren, Michael and many others (conservative, liberal and moderates, christians and others) have all given evidence of Barton’s misrepresentations. Further, it is BARTON who is doing all the name-calling, not his detractors. Calling them, leftists, liberals, elitists, atheists, and anything else he can think of that will resonate with his followers. But he never really addresses the issues they raise.

The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence, were the only principles in which that beautiful assembly of young men could unite, and these principles only could be intended by them in their address, or by me in my answer. And what were these general principles? I answer, the general principles of Christianity, in which all those sects were united, and the general principles of English and American liberty, in which all those young men united, and which had united all parties in America, in majorities sufficient to assert and maintain her independence. Now I will avow, that I then believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God; and that those principles of liberty are as unalterable as human nature and our terrestrial, mundane system.

The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence, were the only principles in which that beautiful assembly of young men could unite, and these principles only could be intended by them in their address, or by me in my answer. And what were these general principles? I answer, the general principles of Christianity, in which all those sects were united, and the general principles of English and American liberty, in which all those young men united, and which had united all parties in America, in majorities sufficient to assert and maintain her independence. Now I will avow, that I then believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God; and that those principles of liberty are as unalterable as human nature and our terrestrial, mundane system.

I sincerely doubt that anyone associated with the Founders’ Bible would advocate the theories and views of Hammond.

I don’t doubt it.

I readily concede most wouldn’t. Few would admit to it, though given what has been said in the past by certain NARTH members, some might.

Leave out the whole “inferior race” nonsense – something widely believed at the time, even by Abolitionists – and what he says about the “proletariat” to use the Marxist terminology is true.

There’s a huge difference in the ability to split up families, legally assault and even murder someone, to legally possess their children, and the powers of even the most piratical of Robber-Barons. In terms of economic welfare though, quite true, and troublingly true today.

When I visited New Orleans for a Supercomputer conference, I was a stranger in a strange land. Virtually all the minimum-wage employees I talked to (and made darn sure to tip generously before I left, even though I’m on the poverty line myself) were on probation for minor drug offences. Most, but not all, were African-American.

It’s blindingly obvious to me, a very conservative small-l 18th century liberal, right-wing by Australian standards, that the system there is set up to perpetuate an underclass of cheap, disposable, fungible menial workers with no alternatives in their lives.

I’ve seen something similar in the UK where I was born, and even to a lesser extent in Germany and Australia. But nothing remotely as blatantly fixed as in New Orleans.

Hammond may have been loathsome, a total failure as a human being. But being a hypocrite of the first order himself, he knew hypocrisy when he saw it.

I sincerely doubt that anyone associated with the Founders’ Bible would advocate the theories and views of Hammond.

I don’t doubt it.

I readily concede most wouldn’t. Few would admit to it, though given what has been said in the past by certain NARTH members, some might.

Leave out the whole “inferior race” nonsense – something widely believed at the time, even by Abolitionists – and what he says about the “proletariat” to use the Marxist terminology is true.

There’s a huge difference in the ability to split up families, legally assault and even murder someone, to legally possess their children, and the powers of even the most piratical of Robber-Barons. In terms of economic welfare though, quite true, and troublingly true today.

When I visited New Orleans for a Supercomputer conference, I was a stranger in a strange land. Virtually all the minimum-wage employees I talked to (and made darn sure to tip generously before I left, even though I’m on the poverty line myself) were on probation for minor drug offences. Most, but not all, were African-American.

It’s blindingly obvious to me, a very conservative small-l 18th century liberal, right-wing by Australian standards, that the system there is set up to perpetuate an underclass of cheap, disposable, fungible menial workers with no alternatives in their lives.

I’ve seen something similar in the UK where I was born, and even to a lesser extent in Germany and Australia. But nothing remotely as blatantly fixed as in New Orleans.

Hammond may have been loathsome, a total failure as a human being. But being a hypocrite of the first order himself, he knew hypocrisy when he saw it.